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On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:21 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:19 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:06 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person. And how do you know what is what? How you know that what is inherent and what is not? You cannot pick apart a certain like or dislike for something into "social" and "inherent" fraction. For you they appear as one thing. You're right. I can't. But when likes and dislikes line up with the prejudices of the day and then people tell me "just because" or they quote some completely nonsensical "their vagina would feel bad" reason, it's kinda suspect. And oh my god guys you cannot come into a thread and talk about your sexual preferences and expect no followup about your sex life. That's like...how discussion works. "I really like cheeseburgers with extra pickes!" "Where do you most commonly buy your cheeseburgers?" "FUCK OFF MY EATING HABITS ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!" That would only be a reasonable response if I hadn't come into the thread talking about my eating habits. Well that is the crux. You cannot tell them apart therefore you cannot know if they are "prejudices" or you if you are born this way. So you need no fucking reason at all for something you like or dislike. That is the whole point. Why do need a fucking reason to like something? You just like it or not. You wont argue with someone why they like cheeseburgers more than hotdogs. There is a huge difference between "why do you like pickles?" and "your stated sexual preferences do not meet my idealised requirements for sexual preferences, I demand that you account for this so I can condemn you". People don't like being told what they believe is bad, or wrong, in any way. We are not condemning you for finding black women fairly unattractive. You are not at fault. Your point about the magazine and purchasing power, while makes sense, does not hold up. Black women are vastly underrepresented, as are gays and transgenders. This is not your fault either.
You realize that black people, gays, and transgenders are actually minority demographics (particularly the latter two) in pretty much every large population in the world, right? I'm not saying that there aren't unfair portrayals or a lack of good portrayals of these groups, but having a cast in which there were equal numbers of every racial/religious/gender group wouldn't make any sense, because gay people, transgenders, and black women are underrepresented in real life in most Western nations in the sense that there aren't as many of them as other groups.
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem.
Citation needed. You can't just assert shit like this without proving it. How do you know that Kwark's sexual preferences are the product of some insidious racism? You don't. You don't have one single piece of evidence to suggest that that is the case, and yet you keep harping on about it anyway.
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On August 01 2013 06:22 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +I like blue eyes because they sparkle more and blue is one of my favorite colors.
I like light-ish skin tones because it's brighter and because I like the way it meshes with my own (pale) skin when I'm in bed with someone. I mean, this still basically just comes down to "because I like it," as I'm pretty sure you have no reason to like the colour blue.
That's still a hell of a lot better reason than "just because." And I've never bashed liking lighter skin. I've bashed saying "Having darker skin makes someone wholly unattractive." Like I was trying to say to Sokrates, when you say (and mean) "I will never X" you immediately make that true by virtue of the fact that you destroy any possibility of even acknowledging X.
So if you say "I will never have sex with someone of darker skin tones" you just stop even looking at people with darker skin tones despite the fact that their overall appearance may be very attractive to you. And that's idiotic.
I typically like lighter skinned dudes myself but goddamn if there aren't a couple of gorgeous black guys at my gym who make my eyes pop outta my head.
Maybe I got caught up with what other posters were saying an misinterpreted your "I have a non-exclusive preference for lighter skin tones and simply have not found anyone with darker skin tones attractive" with "I exclusively prefer lighter skin tones and do not even evaluate the attractiveness of darker skin tones because I will never find someone with darker skin tones attractive." Cause seriously...there have been some dbags up in here.
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United States41973 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem.
By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny.
If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist.
Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour.
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So if I bring a woman home, who I then find out is trans, and I get mad, I'm the bad guy? Is that what the general consensus of these last few pages are? Because that seems absurd to me.
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On August 01 2013 06:30 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:22 Shiori wrote:I like blue eyes because they sparkle more and blue is one of my favorite colors.
I like light-ish skin tones because it's brighter and because I like the way it meshes with my own (pale) skin when I'm in bed with someone. I mean, this still basically just comes down to "because I like it," as I'm pretty sure you have no reason to like the colour blue. That's still a hell of a lot better reason than "just because." And I've never bashed liking lighter skin. I've bashed saying "Having darker skin makes someone wholly unattractive." Like I was trying to say to Sokrates, when you say (and mean) "I will never X" you immediately make that true by virtue of the fact that you destroy any possibility of even acknowledging X. So if you say "I will never have sex with someone of darker skin tones" you just stop even looking at people with darker skin tones despite the fact that their overall appearance may be very attractive to you. And that's idiotic. I typically like lighter skinned dudes myself but goddamn if there aren't a couple of gorgeous black guys at my gym who make my eyes pop outta my head. Maybe I got caught up with what other posters were saying an misinterpreted your "I have a non-exclusive preference for lighter skin tones and simply have not found anyone with darker skin tones attractive" with "I exclusively prefer lighter skin tones and do not even evaluate the attractiveness of darker skin tones because I will never find someone with darker skin tones attractive." Cause seriously...there have been some dbags up in here.
Well, that's basically what I said. I said I have not come across any black women that I've found particularly attractive. No, I didn't necessarily find them utterly ugly, or anything, but not particularly attractive. I didn't say that it was impossible that that could change in the future, and I don't know how to stop evaluating attractiveness anyway, since it happens automatically when I see someone, so that's not an issue either.
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On August 01 2013 06:23 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:12 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 06:03 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:02 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:56 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:51 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
As a black person this makes me lol.
There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:
[quote]
A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. I'm sorry for not proving to be black, I guess now I won't be allowed in this minorities circlejerk anymore A womens vagina is absolutely my business, when people like Klondike tell me to be attracted to it. No it's not your business. My vagina is absolutely none of your fucking business and I'm getting really fucking tired of people like you trying to make it their business just because I'm TRANSEXUAL! Fuck off pervert if you're so interested in vagina look one up in your daddy's magazines instead. He said I must be attracted to trans people, I am not, because they aren't real women and don't have a real vagina. People like you are exactly the ones giving trans people a bad name. When in a discussion, someone says something you don't like you just go BUT IM TRANS YOU PerV. Cute. How exactly am I supposed to react when some creepy internet perverts argue over the legitimacy of my genitals? Please enlighten me. On August 01 2013 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
As a black person this makes me lol.
There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:
[quote]
A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. None of my business? Someone asked what differences there are and I specified a difference. The subject was brought up earlier asking what the differences are sexually, ignoring stuff like reproduction etc. Well, in my case, I would prefer to have sex with a 100% legit female vagina. I am doing my very best to be as non-offensive as possible, but I feel like there are only so many ways to say that the vaginas are not the same, and this difference will become obvious when having sex. And I assure you I could tell the difference between a warm ham and I vagina :p Oh I'm so sorry that my vagina doesn't pass your fucking weird creepy fertility test. Oh how will I ever get by knowing that your penis will never grace my loins? Jackass. If you can't discuss this issue without getting offended and calling people names, why are you here? I'm voicing my reasoning for my feelings on the issue in a polite and respectful manner. Its not my job to make sure I don't offend you, but I am doing my best to be as respectful as possible given the situation. No you aren't voicing your opinion in a reasonable or respectful manner. You're being a condescending, transphobic, douche and if that's you trying to be respectful then I feel really bad for anyone that comes into contact with you. No moderator in here? Because this was a fairly civil discussion, before someone thought his feelings were hurt and started spouting insults around Civilized? You have got to be kidding. You are continuously insulting trans members and expecting not to get yelled at? I'm sick of seeing people like you insist that I'm fake. You're treating this argument like a zoo. We're all in cages while you discuss the legitimacy of our lives. You have no respect for any of us and if you do you sure as hell have a shitty way of showing it. I don't want to insult you in any way. Just saying you aren't a real women, which is true, or are you able to give birth etc? He asked why I wouldn't be attracted to trans people? The answer is because they aren't real, biological women. If someone were attracted to white people, she wouldn't find me attractive, because I am not white. This isn't derogatory in any way or form. It's just calling things for what they are. That is incredibly insulting. You're sugar coating being an asshole. Women who have hysterectomies can't give birth, there are women born without sexual organs but they're still women. How many organs does a person need before their gender is decided? Why does the person not get to decide their own gender? Who are you to tell me that I'm not a woman? You're not a doctor or a scientist. You didn't study transgender or LGBT issues for a living. Why are you talking about things you don't understand as if your opinion holds any value?
Because there are clear definitions for what is male and female. Losing the ability to reproduce doesn't make you less of what you were at birth. It may make you abnormal but doesn't change your sex.
I have no problem with you deciding, feeling and seeing yourself as a women, but please don't expect the same from me, when you aren't.
And no, I'm in university for a real, scientific field. Actually makes me smirk that people can study something like LGBT issues for a living.
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On August 01 2013 06:31 Rhaegal wrote:
So if I bring a woman home, who I then find out is trans, and I get mad, I'm the bad guy? Is that what the general consensus of these last few pages are? Because that seems absurd to me.
no, you're fine to that point and then if you cant be convinced, then you're bad guy 
i think most trans people understand if their partner feels deceived or lied to after knowing the truth but some people tend to push the idea that if you dont see tran woman as real woman and treat them the same, you're discriminating or something.
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On August 01 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:11 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 06:03 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:00 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:54 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior. But you have to ask yourself why you are not attracted to black women. Why is it so impossible to not be attracted to very dark skin? Why does there always have to be some social reason for it? I am really not attracted to very dark skin. This is also true for certain hispanic girls who are really dark, as well as some Indian etc girls. The fact that its also true for Indian people, who I see as, generally speaking, more intelligent than white people, makes me think its not from seeing black people as inferior. Really dark skin just isn't my thing. It's not at all impossible that you just wouldn't like dark skin. But look at our culture. Look at what it glorifies. You don't think there's a possibility that your attractions haven't been shaped by a culture that hasn't been terribly kind to minorities? Apparently I have to say this every time I post or yall will get confused: I do not mean that you have to go run out and let minorities DP you while a fat man shits on your chest and you moan with pleasure. The Klondike forced intercourse farm does not, nor has it ever, existed. And if it was influenced by their culture and surroundings, so what? The nurture part of nature vs nurture is still important, my experienced help define who I am. Are they invalid because they're not ingrained in me at a molecular level? Is a person who's trans because of their experiences as a child instead of the natural chemistry in their brain suddenly invalid because they weren't born that way? Our institutions, historically and presently, have violently oppressed minorities. It is reasonable to think that the influence of our institutions, will probably not be positive with respect to minorities. So when you consider a preference like "I find people with darker skin tones less attractive" and understand that said preference has probably been shaped by our cultural institutions, it's possible that that preference is the result of a not so great influence. And, insofar as we're trying to minimize the negative influences of our institutions, personally evaluating why our preferences are the way they are might help us become better people who are less shaped by the negative influences around us.
And as someone who has evaluated his sexuality tirelessly for half a decade and can trace his bisexuality and fetishes down to their origins, you're overestimating the effect cultural mores have on people's perceptions of, and attraction to, minorities (humanity has a thing for taboos, which is why incest and cuckolding are two of the biggest fetishes you'll find in modern porn aimed at white people).
More than that, it goes "both ways" so to say, for every teen boy who somehow didn't watch Swordfish and isn't attracted to black women, there's another boy who was dressed up in frills as a toddler by his cousins and now identifies with feminine things more than masculine. Is the first persons taste less valid than the seconds because it could be seen as hurtful to a minority?
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United States41973 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:31 Rhaegal wrote:
So if I bring a woman home, who I then find out is trans, and I get mad, I'm the bad guy? Is that what the general consensus of these last few pages are? Because that seems absurd to me.
If it was such a big deal to you maybe you should have asked? If you liked what you saw then you get mad then yeah, you're an asshole. That said, if it's something that a trans person is aware other people might care about but might not think to ask then I think it'd be courteous to let them know in advance.
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I think this guy is being a little over zealous and i hope people don't assume he is the speaking on behalf of everyone.
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On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour.
But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of.
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On August 01 2013 06:27 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:25 Shiori wrote:Sorry, by the way, for taking people's rights, and lives too seriously Whose rights/lives are being threatened by my choice to have sex with one person instead of another? I believe he is conflating this fight with the general struggle against transphobia which is a real problem and has been expressed by many people in this topic. He's not doing it particularly well and I think he's somewhat of an internet cliche but transphobia is a serious issue.
Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say.
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On August 01 2013 06:31 Rhaegal wrote:
So if I bring a woman home, who I then find out is trans, and I get mad, I'm the bad guy? Is that what the general consensus of these last few pages are? Because that seems absurd to me.
No, if you get mad because she tells you that she is trans, you are an ass hole. If your not conformable sleeping with her, that is a more complex issue that I think people would just let you work through on your own.
If she didn't tell you and you were "surprised" by what you discovered during the process of bringing her home, you would be justified in being upset that it was not disclosed to you. But there is a huge difference between upset and raging mad.
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On August 01 2013 06:31 Rhaegal wrote:
So if I bring a woman home, who I then find out is trans, and I get mad, I'm the bad guy? Is that what the general consensus of these last few pages are? Because that seems absurd to me.
Are you implying she tells you that shes a transgender person? like shes letting you know for your own comfort and you react with anger?
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United States41973 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:32 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:23 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 06:12 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 06:03 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:02 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:56 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:51 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:
[quote]
First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all.
[quote]
God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. I'm sorry for not proving to be black, I guess now I won't be allowed in this minorities circlejerk anymore A womens vagina is absolutely my business, when people like Klondike tell me to be attracted to it. No it's not your business. My vagina is absolutely none of your fucking business and I'm getting really fucking tired of people like you trying to make it their business just because I'm TRANSEXUAL! Fuck off pervert if you're so interested in vagina look one up in your daddy's magazines instead. He said I must be attracted to trans people, I am not, because they aren't real women and don't have a real vagina. People like you are exactly the ones giving trans people a bad name. When in a discussion, someone says something you don't like you just go BUT IM TRANS YOU PerV. Cute. How exactly am I supposed to react when some creepy internet perverts argue over the legitimacy of my genitals? Please enlighten me. On August 01 2013 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:
[quote]
First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all.
[quote]
God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. None of my business? Someone asked what differences there are and I specified a difference. The subject was brought up earlier asking what the differences are sexually, ignoring stuff like reproduction etc. Well, in my case, I would prefer to have sex with a 100% legit female vagina. I am doing my very best to be as non-offensive as possible, but I feel like there are only so many ways to say that the vaginas are not the same, and this difference will become obvious when having sex. And I assure you I could tell the difference between a warm ham and I vagina :p Oh I'm so sorry that my vagina doesn't pass your fucking weird creepy fertility test. Oh how will I ever get by knowing that your penis will never grace my loins? Jackass. If you can't discuss this issue without getting offended and calling people names, why are you here? I'm voicing my reasoning for my feelings on the issue in a polite and respectful manner. Its not my job to make sure I don't offend you, but I am doing my best to be as respectful as possible given the situation. No you aren't voicing your opinion in a reasonable or respectful manner. You're being a condescending, transphobic, douche and if that's you trying to be respectful then I feel really bad for anyone that comes into contact with you. No moderator in here? Because this was a fairly civil discussion, before someone thought his feelings were hurt and started spouting insults around Civilized? You have got to be kidding. You are continuously insulting trans members and expecting not to get yelled at? I'm sick of seeing people like you insist that I'm fake. You're treating this argument like a zoo. We're all in cages while you discuss the legitimacy of our lives. You have no respect for any of us and if you do you sure as hell have a shitty way of showing it. I don't want to insult you in any way. Just saying you aren't a real women, which is true, or are you able to give birth etc? He asked why I wouldn't be attracted to trans people? The answer is because they aren't real, biological women. If someone were attracted to white people, she wouldn't find me attractive, because I am not white. This isn't derogatory in any way or form. It's just calling things for what they are. That is incredibly insulting. You're sugar coating being an asshole. Women who have hysterectomies can't give birth, there are women born without sexual organs but they're still women. How many organs does a person need before their gender is decided? Why does the person not get to decide their own gender? Who are you to tell me that I'm not a woman? You're not a doctor or a scientist. You didn't study transgender or LGBT issues for a living. Why are you talking about things you don't understand as if your opinion holds any value? Because there are clear definitions for what is male and female. Losing the ability to reproduce doesn't make you less of what you were at birth. It may make you abnormal but doesn't change your sex. I have no problem with you deciding, feeling and seeing yourself as a women, but please don't expect the same from me, when you aren't. And no, I'm in university for a real, scientific field. Actually makes me smirk that people can study something like LGBT issues for a living.
Here is XXY, just to get you started
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XXY
Biological sex isn't as simple as you think it is, you are being factually wrong and you are being an ass about it. Educate yourself. Consider this an instruction from moderation.
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On August 01 2013 06:31 Rhaegal wrote:
So if I bring a woman home, who I then find out is trans, and I get mad, I'm the bad guy? Is that what the general consensus of these last few pages are? Because that seems absurd to me.
If they're pre/non op and don't disclose before you consent to sex then sure you can be mad
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On August 01 2013 06:33 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:31 Rhaegal wrote:
So if I bring a woman home, who I then find out is trans, and I get mad, I'm the bad guy? Is that what the general consensus of these last few pages are? Because that seems absurd to me.
If it was such a big deal to you maybe you should have asked? If you liked what you saw then you get mad then yeah, you're an asshole. That said, if it's something that a trans person is aware other people might care about but might not think to ask then I think it'd be courteous to let them know in advance.
A person of any sex, gender or sexuality shouldn't be vilified for turning down sex for any reason. Isn't that a major tenet of the progressive movement?
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On August 01 2013 06:19 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:09 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:35 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:23 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:22 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:18 Shodaa wrote:On August 01 2013 05:12 theodorus12 wrote:
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So their right, to use the "right" bathroom, because they identify with that sex, is above the right of the rest of the people who would feel uncomfortable to share the same bathroom with someone they don't identify as the same sex? A trans woman going into men bathroom risk being attacked or worse. That also means you're fine with a trans man going into a girl bathroom ? Do you even know what you're talking about ? Unlike trans woman, trans man pretty much always pass, because testosterone is "stronger" as an hormone. Well, personally I couldn't care less. But I can still see how many would be offended by a trans "man" going into a girl bathroom. There really is no need to try and shove your "I identify with my gender so now I'm female etc" into peoples faces like that. This doesn't help their cause at all. The oppressed have no obligation to be nice to their oppressers. Sorry :c And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. "The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation" ^.^ Answered your own question mate. The majority only get uncomfortable because of their own subconscious prejudices. And I don't think you know what egocentric means... :s The question still stands. Why should transsexual people be privileged in this regard? They're doing essentially the same thing to that majority. And, sorry, but I'm not buying your whole ideology passed as science (gender studies, internalized racism and all that crap). http://www.thefreedictionary.com/egocentric"Confined in attitude or interest to one's own needs or affairs." which is exactly what I was getting at. And now you have made the full circle of jackassary. Lol. I am white, male, and straight. In no way is this my own needs or affairs. You have made a fucking dumbass assumption that I am trans or some shit just because I support equality for them. Assumptions make an ass out of you, really fucking badly in this case. Not to mention, the fact you're saying transsexual people are privileged in any way just adds to your levels of dumb. You have problems with reading comprehension, it seems. Nowhere did I claim I believe you're transsexual. Quite clearly you're a self-hating white male that takes the gender/whatever ideology too seriously ("I prefer white women to black women, I'm such a BAD person..."). I also did not say transsexuals are privileged right now, in that regard, i.e. bathroom choice (well, depends on the country). Quite the opposite, I implied that non-transsexual people who have an issue with certain transsexuals using the same bathroom as them are priviledge - because they're in a vast majority. There's an obvious conflict of interests/rights with no real compromise possible. Either way one side is going to be privileged. So, all in all, I'd rather say your post was being dumb, making unfounded assumptions as regards the contents of my post simply because you have trouble reading carefully. Then how the fuck could you claim it is me arguing for a self interest you idiot? Again, reading is key. If you can quote me saying I am a bad person, I will admit you are completely right about everything you have said and ever will say. I have said that I recognize that I am prejudice against black people, due to me finding them unattractive. This does not make me a bad person, in fact, reasoning it is in a HUGE way part of the solution. Sorry, by the way, for taking people's rights, and lives too seriously. Maybe if you were part of the oppressed, you would be a bit more inclined to take it seriously.
You're amusing.  I said transsexual people are egocentric (as equally as people they denounce), referring to the very transsexual people who have posted in this thread. I was talking specifically about the bathroom issue. Perceiving themselves as oppressed, while failing to acknowledge that having it their way, they'd end up oppressing other people is pretty egocentric.
As for the bolded, you said that you acknowledge your internalized racism and strive to better yourself, implying that not being attracted to black women or such is somehow a bad thing that you need to work on. If it's not bad, then there's no need to work on anything... If you don't like the taste of pickles it's not because you're prejudiced against them. It's because you simply don't, no need to add a whole ideology to that.
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On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of.
I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^
Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say.
Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all.
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On August 01 2013 06:23 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:12 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 06:03 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:02 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:56 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:51 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:
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As a black person this makes me lol.
There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:
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A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. I'm sorry for not proving to be black, I guess now I won't be allowed in this minorities circlejerk anymore A womens vagina is absolutely my business, when people like Klondike tell me to be attracted to it. No it's not your business. My vagina is absolutely none of your fucking business and I'm getting really fucking tired of people like you trying to make it their business just because I'm TRANSEXUAL! Fuck off pervert if you're so interested in vagina look one up in your daddy's magazines instead. He said I must be attracted to trans people, I am not, because they aren't real women and don't have a real vagina. People like you are exactly the ones giving trans people a bad name. When in a discussion, someone says something you don't like you just go BUT IM TRANS YOU PerV. Cute. How exactly am I supposed to react when some creepy internet perverts argue over the legitimacy of my genitals? Please enlighten me. On August 01 2013 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:
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As a black person this makes me lol.
There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:
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A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. None of my business? Someone asked what differences there are and I specified a difference. The subject was brought up earlier asking what the differences are sexually, ignoring stuff like reproduction etc. Well, in my case, I would prefer to have sex with a 100% legit female vagina. I am doing my very best to be as non-offensive as possible, but I feel like there are only so many ways to say that the vaginas are not the same, and this difference will become obvious when having sex. And I assure you I could tell the difference between a warm ham and I vagina :p Oh I'm so sorry that my vagina doesn't pass your fucking weird creepy fertility test. Oh how will I ever get by knowing that your penis will never grace my loins? Jackass. If you can't discuss this issue without getting offended and calling people names, why are you here? I'm voicing my reasoning for my feelings on the issue in a polite and respectful manner. Its not my job to make sure I don't offend you, but I am doing my best to be as respectful as possible given the situation. No you aren't voicing your opinion in a reasonable or respectful manner. You're being a condescending, transphobic, douche and if that's you trying to be respectful then I feel really bad for anyone that comes into contact with you. No moderator in here? Because this was a fairly civil discussion, before someone thought his feelings were hurt and started spouting insults around Civilized? You have got to be kidding. You are continuously insulting trans members and expecting not to get yelled at? I'm sick of seeing people like you insist that I'm fake. You're treating this argument like a zoo. We're all in cages while you discuss the legitimacy of our lives. You have no respect for any of us and if you do you sure as hell have a shitty way of showing it. I don't want to insult you in any way. Just saying you aren't a real women, which is true, or are you able to give birth etc? He asked why I wouldn't be attracted to trans people? The answer is because they aren't real, biological women. If someone were attracted to white people, she wouldn't find me attractive, because I am not white. This isn't derogatory in any way or form. It's just calling things for what they are. That is incredibly insulting. You're sugar coating being an asshole. Women who have hysterectomies can't give birth, there are women born without sexual organs but they're still women. How many organs does a person need before their gender is decided? Why does the person not get to decide their own gender? Who are you to tell me that I'm not a woman? You're not a doctor or a scientist. You didn't study transgender or LGBT issues for a living. Why are you talking about things you don't understand as if your opinion holds any value?
People can't decide freely what everybody should call them, because part of language is trying to describe how things actually are. If I change my handle to Brad Pitt, you would probably want to point out that I'm not the real Brad Pitt. If I start wearing a white coat and introducing myself as Doctor Pitt, you'd probably point out to your friends that I'm not a real doctor.
The poster you quoted thinks the distinction between somebody born a man and then going through a sex change to become a male to female transsexual, as opposed to someone who was born a woman and has never been through hormone therapy, matters. Why isn't he allowed to use different words for what he considers to be different categories? People are described as gay or homosexual when people think their sexual orientation matters, too, even though they fit in the wider umbrella of men or even people in other contexts. Is this also a problem?
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