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speaking of trans woman vs "real" woman, one is natural and the other forced/natural alterations. isnt that enough to say they're different?
or is the topic at hand "can you tell the physical difference? and not "trans woman are real woman"
i'd still call michael jackson black
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On August 01 2013 06:00 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:54 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior. But you have to ask yourself why you are not attracted to black women. Why is it so impossible to not be attracted to very dark skin? Why does there always have to be some social reason for it? I am really not attracted to very dark skin. This is also true for certain hispanic girls who are really dark, as well as some Indian etc girls. The fact that its also true for Indian people, who I see as, generally speaking, more intelligent than white people, makes me think its not from seeing black people as inferior. Really dark skin just isn't my thing.
It's not at all impossible that you just wouldn't like dark skin. But look at our culture. Look at what it glorifies. You don't think there's a possibility that your attractions haven't been shaped by a culture that hasn't been terribly kind to minorities?
Apparently I have to say this every time I post or yall will get confused: I do not mean that you have to go run out and let minorities DP you while a fat man shits on your chest and you moan with pleasure. The Klondike forced intercourse farm does not, nor has it ever, existed.
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On August 01 2013 06:02 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:56 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:51 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:23 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:22 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
Well, personally I couldn't care less. But I can still see how many would be offended by a trans "man" going into a girl bathroom.
There really is no need to try and shove your "I identify with my gender so now I'm female etc" into peoples faces like that. This doesn't help their cause at all.
The oppressed have no obligation to be nice to their oppressers. Sorry :c And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person this makes me lol. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:38 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:
[quote]
And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person I could now go on and say how offensive this post is etc but I don't. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. One is black and one is white. Black people also have more testosterone on average. On top of this, black people living in Africa will score lower on an IQ test on average, due to it being weighted towards western characteristics. How many differences can you name from a trans women and a "real" women. Also, saying you could find his post offensive is really dumb, and makes no sense at all. A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. I'm sorry for not proving to be black, I guess now I won't be allowed in this minorities circlejerk anymore A womens vagina is absolutely my business, when people like Klondike tell me to be attracted to it. No it's not your business. My vagina is absolutely none of your fucking business and I'm getting really fucking tired of people like you trying to make it their business just because I'm TRANSEXUAL! Fuck off pervert if you're so interested in vagina look one up in your daddy's magazines instead. He said I must be attracted to trans people, I am not, because they aren't real women and don't have a real vagina. People like you are exactly the ones giving trans people a bad name. When in a discussion, someone says something you don't like you just go BUT IM TRANS YOU PerV. Cute. How exactly am I supposed to react when some creepy internet perverts argue over the legitimacy of my genitals? Please enlighten me. Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:23 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:22 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
Well, personally I couldn't care less. But I can still see how many would be offended by a trans "man" going into a girl bathroom.
There really is no need to try and shove your "I identify with my gender so now I'm female etc" into peoples faces like that. This doesn't help their cause at all.
The oppressed have no obligation to be nice to their oppressers. Sorry :c And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person this makes me lol. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:38 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:
[quote]
And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person I could now go on and say how offensive this post is etc but I don't. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. One is black and one is white. Black people also have more testosterone on average. On top of this, black people living in Africa will score lower on an IQ test on average, due to it being weighted towards western characteristics. How many differences can you name from a trans women and a "real" women. Also, saying you could find his post offensive is really dumb, and makes no sense at all. A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. None of my business? Someone asked what differences there are and I specified a difference. The subject was brought up earlier asking what the differences are sexually, ignoring stuff like reproduction etc. Well, in my case, I would prefer to have sex with a 100% legit female vagina. I am doing my very best to be as non-offensive as possible, but I feel like there are only so many ways to say that the vaginas are not the same, and this difference will become obvious when having sex. And I assure you I could tell the difference between a warm ham and I vagina :p Oh I'm so sorry that my vagina doesn't pass your fucking weird creepy fertility test. Oh how will I ever get by knowing that your penis will never grace my loins? Jackass. If you can't discuss this issue without getting offended and calling people names, why are you here? I'm voicing my reasoning for my feelings on the issue in a polite and respectful manner. Its not my job to make sure I don't offend you, but I am doing my best to be as respectful as possible given the situation. No you aren't voicing your opinion in a reasonable or respectful manner. You're being a condescending, transphobic, douche and if that's you trying to be respectful then I feel really bad for anyone that comes into contact with you.
No moderator in here? Because this was a fairly civil discussion, before someone thought his feelings were hurt and started spouting insults around
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On August 01 2013 06:02 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:01 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:59 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 05:54 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior. But you have to ask yourself why you are not attracted to black women. Or you could fuck off out of my sex life? What a mature and well formed response, excellent work. Maybe you shouldn't ask people that question? You haven't received a positive response yet. I mean, its not like people can control who they are attracted to.
No, they can't, and it's completely fair. But just because a question makes someone uncomfortable doesn't mean it shouldn't be asked.
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United States42640 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:01 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:59 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 05:54 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior. But you have to ask yourself why you are not attracted to black women. Or you could fuck off out of my sex life? What a mature and well formed response, excellent work.
Because intruding into the sexual life of a stranger and demanding they account for their preferences to your standard of acceptable is a totally reasonable thing to do? Are you fucking serious?
You were out of line.
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On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person.
And how do you know what is what? How you know that what is inherent and what is not?
You cannot pick apart a certain like or dislike for something into "social" and "inherent" fraction. For you they appear as one thing.
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On August 01 2013 06:04 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:02 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:01 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:59 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 05:54 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior. But you have to ask yourself why you are not attracted to black women. Or you could fuck off out of my sex life? What a mature and well formed response, excellent work. Maybe you shouldn't ask people that question? You haven't received a positive response yet. I mean, its not like people can control who they are attracted to. No, they can't, and it's completely fair. But just because a question makes someone uncomfortable doesn't mean it shouldn't be asked.
No. It's a stupid immature question that has no relevance to the topic.
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On August 01 2013 06:03 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:59 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 05:45 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:39 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 05:09 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:03 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 04:51 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
"Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them.
If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves.
I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte. Although I don't actually think I've addressed any bigots for a while. Recently I've been talking to people I would say have some internalized prejudices that would be better acknowledged than ignored. Racism usually manifests itself as malicious and stupid. Don't think Plansix or Shiori are maliciously or intentionally racist. Here is what racism is.Choosing your mates is not racism. Christ, it's not like I think black people or any people are inferior to other people; I just don't find them sexually appealing!!@~@~!#% For fuck's sake, sex appeal isn't a moral judgment when we're talking about the physical attributes of a person. The problem with "social justice" types is that they use hyperbolic arguments and terms to attack things that, as you yourself admitted, aren't even malicious. What's more, they aren't even anybody's fucking business. I'm not obligated to have sex with certain people. I'm not obligated to ever have sex. I can flip a coin to determine who I want to have sex with, for all that it matters. Who one has sex with is seriously a matter of personal choice/preference, and there's no objectivity involved in the sense of details. Ask yourself WHY you don't find black people attractive. That is how you can root down the racism at a subconscious level. What makes them less attractive? "I just don't find them attractive" --- Is not a reason. The reason is that you are taught as you grew up by the media and people around you what is, and what isn't attractive. You were taught that white women are attractive. You were not taught that black women were attractive. You are told constantly that an attractive girl is one that is "born" a women or whatever you call is, who is slim, fairly submissive, and white. THAT is why you will generally favor that sort of women. Wait. Wouldn't that be the same as calling a guy interested only in girls a homophobe? Im pretty speechless to be honest. So, if I find the distinct features of Asians more attractive, you would call me a bigot because I don't feel the same way about white, brown or black women? I don't know if I misunderstood your post, but I feel pretty offended by it. Calling me a bigot because I find some women more attractive then others? That's Ludacris. You just took my post, that did not ONCE mention the word bigot, and managed to decide I called you a bigot. I literally cannot be bothered to repeat the same stuff over and over. You are allowed to be attracted to whomever you want. However, if you can recognize the reason that you don't find black women as attractive, which is because of subconscious racism, prejudice, or whatever you want to call it, then it helps a great deal. And no, it wouldn't be the same as that. Sexuality is something that you are born into. As a baby, you do not find black women less attractive than white. Possibly, to an extent, there is biological evidence that you find people attractive who are similar to you, but that has a small effect compared to the institutionalized racism that society places upon you. Again: Google search for female models. Google search beautiful women. When you are constantly being told as you are growing up, that an attractive female is white, you will begin to find white women more attractive. This IS racism, but people have to stop being so scared of the world. It is ok to an extend to be subconsciously racist, I for one certainly am. The key is to recognize it and work to better yourself as best you can. Isnt calling people racist in their subconscious, same as calling them a bigot? Besides, using google images to prove that we all being "told" what is good, and what is not good, is a joke to be honest. Who exactly is telling us white women are more attractive? Didn't work on me it seems...I think people are more then able to make up their own mind. Well, it isn't, I am racist in my subconscious., I am not a bigot. And what you find attractive is OF COURSE based on what you see in the media and hear off other people. The google images thing is an example. If you look in womens magazines such as vogue, white women are featured 10 times at least more than black women. You are told by society what is attractive. Billboards that are up round places you visit, 90% of women will be white. These things influence what you find attractive. I expect the collective purchasing power of white women is 9x more than that of black women for demographic and economic reasons. This isn't racism in action. In the UK most people, outside of a few areas, are white. Particularly in my town.
So you're saying white women are more likely to buy a magazine with less black women in?
Hmmm. I think you just made a good point as to institutionalized racism in action.
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On August 01 2013 06:03 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:00 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:54 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior. But you have to ask yourself why you are not attracted to black women. Why is it so impossible to not be attracted to very dark skin? Why does there always have to be some social reason for it? I am really not attracted to very dark skin. This is also true for certain hispanic girls who are really dark, as well as some Indian etc girls. The fact that its also true for Indian people, who I see as, generally speaking, more intelligent than white people, makes me think its not from seeing black people as inferior. Really dark skin just isn't my thing. But why isn't it your thing. No one is saying you have to find black women attractive. But you have to acknowledge why you find them more or less attractive then white women. Believe it or not, peoples perception of attractiveness is HEAVILY influenced by what they are told and shown as they grow up, and as they live their lives. Society in general will tell you that white women are more attractive than black. It's sad, it's not your fault as such, but acknowledging it goes a long way as to alleviating the problem.
Yea, you're right, but they are other reasons beside racism. For instance, if you were never in contact with people of different ethnicity in your life, you're not very likely to develop attraction to them, aside from exoticism.
Most people are attracted to people who share similar trait and from the same culture. Since beauty is mostly cultural, you're more likely to fall in love with people within your culture that purposely try to be attractive to you than to those trying to be attractive to their own culture.
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On August 01 2013 06:06 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:03 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 05:59 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 05:45 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:39 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 05:09 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:03 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 04:51 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:
[quote]
Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte. Although I don't actually think I've addressed any bigots for a while. Recently I've been talking to people I would say have some internalized prejudices that would be better acknowledged than ignored. Racism usually manifests itself as malicious and stupid. Don't think Plansix or Shiori are maliciously or intentionally racist. Here is what racism is.Choosing your mates is not racism. Christ, it's not like I think black people or any people are inferior to other people; I just don't find them sexually appealing!!@~@~!#% For fuck's sake, sex appeal isn't a moral judgment when we're talking about the physical attributes of a person. The problem with "social justice" types is that they use hyperbolic arguments and terms to attack things that, as you yourself admitted, aren't even malicious. What's more, they aren't even anybody's fucking business. I'm not obligated to have sex with certain people. I'm not obligated to ever have sex. I can flip a coin to determine who I want to have sex with, for all that it matters. Who one has sex with is seriously a matter of personal choice/preference, and there's no objectivity involved in the sense of details. Ask yourself WHY you don't find black people attractive. That is how you can root down the racism at a subconscious level. What makes them less attractive? "I just don't find them attractive" --- Is not a reason. The reason is that you are taught as you grew up by the media and people around you what is, and what isn't attractive. You were taught that white women are attractive. You were not taught that black women were attractive. You are told constantly that an attractive girl is one that is "born" a women or whatever you call is, who is slim, fairly submissive, and white. THAT is why you will generally favor that sort of women. Wait. Wouldn't that be the same as calling a guy interested only in girls a homophobe? Im pretty speechless to be honest. So, if I find the distinct features of Asians more attractive, you would call me a bigot because I don't feel the same way about white, brown or black women? I don't know if I misunderstood your post, but I feel pretty offended by it. Calling me a bigot because I find some women more attractive then others? That's Ludacris. You just took my post, that did not ONCE mention the word bigot, and managed to decide I called you a bigot. I literally cannot be bothered to repeat the same stuff over and over. You are allowed to be attracted to whomever you want. However, if you can recognize the reason that you don't find black women as attractive, which is because of subconscious racism, prejudice, or whatever you want to call it, then it helps a great deal. And no, it wouldn't be the same as that. Sexuality is something that you are born into. As a baby, you do not find black women less attractive than white. Possibly, to an extent, there is biological evidence that you find people attractive who are similar to you, but that has a small effect compared to the institutionalized racism that society places upon you. Again: Google search for female models. Google search beautiful women. When you are constantly being told as you are growing up, that an attractive female is white, you will begin to find white women more attractive. This IS racism, but people have to stop being so scared of the world. It is ok to an extend to be subconsciously racist, I for one certainly am. The key is to recognize it and work to better yourself as best you can. Isnt calling people racist in their subconscious, same as calling them a bigot? Besides, using google images to prove that we all being "told" what is good, and what is not good, is a joke to be honest. Who exactly is telling us white women are more attractive? Didn't work on me it seems...I think people are more then able to make up their own mind. Well, it isn't, I am racist in my subconscious., I am not a bigot. And what you find attractive is OF COURSE based on what you see in the media and hear off other people. The google images thing is an example. If you look in womens magazines such as vogue, white women are featured 10 times at least more than black women. You are told by society what is attractive. Billboards that are up round places you visit, 90% of women will be white. These things influence what you find attractive. I expect the collective purchasing power of white women is 9x more than that of black women for demographic and economic reasons. This isn't racism in action. In the UK most people, outside of a few areas, are white. Particularly in my town. So you're saying white women are more likely to buy a magazine with less black women in? Hmmm. I think you just made a good point as to institutionalized racism in action.
Just think of all those racist black people going to their tyler perry movies.
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United States42640 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:06 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:03 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 05:59 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 05:45 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:39 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 05:09 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:03 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 04:51 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:
[quote]
Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte. Although I don't actually think I've addressed any bigots for a while. Recently I've been talking to people I would say have some internalized prejudices that would be better acknowledged than ignored. Racism usually manifests itself as malicious and stupid. Don't think Plansix or Shiori are maliciously or intentionally racist. Here is what racism is.Choosing your mates is not racism. Christ, it's not like I think black people or any people are inferior to other people; I just don't find them sexually appealing!!@~@~!#% For fuck's sake, sex appeal isn't a moral judgment when we're talking about the physical attributes of a person. The problem with "social justice" types is that they use hyperbolic arguments and terms to attack things that, as you yourself admitted, aren't even malicious. What's more, they aren't even anybody's fucking business. I'm not obligated to have sex with certain people. I'm not obligated to ever have sex. I can flip a coin to determine who I want to have sex with, for all that it matters. Who one has sex with is seriously a matter of personal choice/preference, and there's no objectivity involved in the sense of details. Ask yourself WHY you don't find black people attractive. That is how you can root down the racism at a subconscious level. What makes them less attractive? "I just don't find them attractive" --- Is not a reason. The reason is that you are taught as you grew up by the media and people around you what is, and what isn't attractive. You were taught that white women are attractive. You were not taught that black women were attractive. You are told constantly that an attractive girl is one that is "born" a women or whatever you call is, who is slim, fairly submissive, and white. THAT is why you will generally favor that sort of women. Wait. Wouldn't that be the same as calling a guy interested only in girls a homophobe? Im pretty speechless to be honest. So, if I find the distinct features of Asians more attractive, you would call me a bigot because I don't feel the same way about white, brown or black women? I don't know if I misunderstood your post, but I feel pretty offended by it. Calling me a bigot because I find some women more attractive then others? That's Ludacris. You just took my post, that did not ONCE mention the word bigot, and managed to decide I called you a bigot. I literally cannot be bothered to repeat the same stuff over and over. You are allowed to be attracted to whomever you want. However, if you can recognize the reason that you don't find black women as attractive, which is because of subconscious racism, prejudice, or whatever you want to call it, then it helps a great deal. And no, it wouldn't be the same as that. Sexuality is something that you are born into. As a baby, you do not find black women less attractive than white. Possibly, to an extent, there is biological evidence that you find people attractive who are similar to you, but that has a small effect compared to the institutionalized racism that society places upon you. Again: Google search for female models. Google search beautiful women. When you are constantly being told as you are growing up, that an attractive female is white, you will begin to find white women more attractive. This IS racism, but people have to stop being so scared of the world. It is ok to an extend to be subconsciously racist, I for one certainly am. The key is to recognize it and work to better yourself as best you can. Isnt calling people racist in their subconscious, same as calling them a bigot? Besides, using google images to prove that we all being "told" what is good, and what is not good, is a joke to be honest. Who exactly is telling us white women are more attractive? Didn't work on me it seems...I think people are more then able to make up their own mind. Well, it isn't, I am racist in my subconscious., I am not a bigot. And what you find attractive is OF COURSE based on what you see in the media and hear off other people. The google images thing is an example. If you look in womens magazines such as vogue, white women are featured 10 times at least more than black women. You are told by society what is attractive. Billboards that are up round places you visit, 90% of women will be white. These things influence what you find attractive. I expect the collective purchasing power of white women is 9x more than that of black women for demographic and economic reasons. This isn't racism in action. In the UK most people, outside of a few areas, are white. Particularly in my town. So you're saying white women are more likely to buy a magazine with less black women in? Hmmm. I think you just made a good point as to institutionalized racism in action.
The point of models modelling clothes is to suggest that the viewer could look like that. It's creating a fantasy for them. It's not racist for a white woman to imagine herself wearing a dress and still being white.
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On August 01 2013 06:03 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:02 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:56 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:51 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:23 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
The oppressed have no obligation to be nice to their oppressers. Sorry :c And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person this makes me lol. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:38 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person I could now go on and say how offensive this post is etc but I don't. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. One is black and one is white. Black people also have more testosterone on average. On top of this, black people living in Africa will score lower on an IQ test on average, due to it being weighted towards western characteristics. How many differences can you name from a trans women and a "real" women. Also, saying you could find his post offensive is really dumb, and makes no sense at all. A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. I'm sorry for not proving to be black, I guess now I won't be allowed in this minorities circlejerk anymore A womens vagina is absolutely my business, when people like Klondike tell me to be attracted to it. No it's not your business. My vagina is absolutely none of your fucking business and I'm getting really fucking tired of people like you trying to make it their business just because I'm TRANSEXUAL! Fuck off pervert if you're so interested in vagina look one up in your daddy's magazines instead. He said I must be attracted to trans people, I am not, because they aren't real women and don't have a real vagina. People like you are exactly the ones giving trans people a bad name. When in a discussion, someone says something you don't like you just go BUT IM TRANS YOU PerV. Cute. How exactly am I supposed to react when some creepy internet perverts argue over the legitimacy of my genitals? Please enlighten me. On August 01 2013 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:23 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
The oppressed have no obligation to be nice to their oppressers. Sorry :c And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person this makes me lol. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:38 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person I could now go on and say how offensive this post is etc but I don't. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. One is black and one is white. Black people also have more testosterone on average. On top of this, black people living in Africa will score lower on an IQ test on average, due to it being weighted towards western characteristics. How many differences can you name from a trans women and a "real" women. Also, saying you could find his post offensive is really dumb, and makes no sense at all. A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. None of my business? Someone asked what differences there are and I specified a difference. The subject was brought up earlier asking what the differences are sexually, ignoring stuff like reproduction etc. Well, in my case, I would prefer to have sex with a 100% legit female vagina. I am doing my very best to be as non-offensive as possible, but I feel like there are only so many ways to say that the vaginas are not the same, and this difference will become obvious when having sex. And I assure you I could tell the difference between a warm ham and I vagina :p Oh I'm so sorry that my vagina doesn't pass your fucking weird creepy fertility test. Oh how will I ever get by knowing that your penis will never grace my loins? Jackass. If you can't discuss this issue without getting offended and calling people names, why are you here? I'm voicing my reasoning for my feelings on the issue in a polite and respectful manner. Its not my job to make sure I don't offend you, but I am doing my best to be as respectful as possible given the situation. No you aren't voicing your opinion in a reasonable or respectful manner. You're being a condescending, transphobic, douche and if that's you trying to be respectful then I feel really bad for anyone that comes into contact with you. No moderator in here? Because this was a fairly civil discussion, before someone thought his feelings were hurt and started spouting insults around
Civilized? You have got to be kidding. You are continuously insulting trans members and expecting not to get yelled at? I'm sick of seeing people like you insist that I'm fake. You're treating this argument like a zoo. We're all in cages while you discuss the legitimacy of our lives. You have no respect for any of us and if you do you sure as hell have a shitty way of showing it.
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On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person.
There's this nifty thing called the burden of proof. The person with said burden the the person making the claim. Yes, it's possible that a given person who finds some characteristic unattractive does so because of a institutionalized prejudice, or something similar, but until that's actually shown to be the case, you are actually being prejudiced against them, since you have literally zero knowledge of why they find certain things attractive vs unattractive, and yet you've already assumed that it's definitely/probably because of some societal prejudice.
Now, I'm not exactly well-versed in every culture in the world, but I live in Toronto, Canada, which is one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the entire continent. Considering I see (and have always seen) pretty much every race/culture/religion/subgroup there is every time I go outside, it's pretty absurd to claim that my impression of black people is solely or even mostly influenced by "normative culture" (I note that you have not provided any definition of what this actually is so that we could actually check if I've been affected by it; instead you've said something like "well, it's possible you are just prejudiced so you are prejudiced") when I've actually encountered tonnes of black people in real life that would render any of these supposed normative stereotypes pretty hollow-looking.
Look, arguing with you is getting pointless. "Just because" is not a reason. And there is a reason for everything, even if it's hard to find. I don't take you seriously because you keep insisting that "just because" is a justification for your opinions. Fine. You don't find darker skin tones sexually attractive "just because." Can't argue with nothing.
What is a reason that you would accept? What is a good reason for being attracted to, say, blue eyes? How about curly hair? What is a "good" reason to be attracted to a particular characteristic? Why do you think that all characteristics are equally important to people? Are not some physical traits much more noticeable than others?
How do you move from:
1) I don't find dark skin tones sexually attractive
to
2) I am prejudiced against black people. I haven't said a damn thing about the worth of the person. I just said that they don't turn me on physically! Why is this somehow not permitted? I don't like facial piercings, large tattoos, millions of earrings, clit piercings, shaved heads, and a myriad of other things. How is this an attack on the character of these people? You need to get it through your head that not wanting to have sex with someone isn't a dismissal or negative interpretation of them. There are plenty of people whom I love and respect very much, but for whom I feel zero sexual interest.
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On August 01 2013 06:06 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:03 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 05:59 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 05:45 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:39 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 05:09 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:03 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 04:51 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:
[quote]
Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte. Although I don't actually think I've addressed any bigots for a while. Recently I've been talking to people I would say have some internalized prejudices that would be better acknowledged than ignored. Racism usually manifests itself as malicious and stupid. Don't think Plansix or Shiori are maliciously or intentionally racist. Here is what racism is.Choosing your mates is not racism. Christ, it's not like I think black people or any people are inferior to other people; I just don't find them sexually appealing!!@~@~!#% For fuck's sake, sex appeal isn't a moral judgment when we're talking about the physical attributes of a person. The problem with "social justice" types is that they use hyperbolic arguments and terms to attack things that, as you yourself admitted, aren't even malicious. What's more, they aren't even anybody's fucking business. I'm not obligated to have sex with certain people. I'm not obligated to ever have sex. I can flip a coin to determine who I want to have sex with, for all that it matters. Who one has sex with is seriously a matter of personal choice/preference, and there's no objectivity involved in the sense of details. Ask yourself WHY you don't find black people attractive. That is how you can root down the racism at a subconscious level. What makes them less attractive? "I just don't find them attractive" --- Is not a reason. The reason is that you are taught as you grew up by the media and people around you what is, and what isn't attractive. You were taught that white women are attractive. You were not taught that black women were attractive. You are told constantly that an attractive girl is one that is "born" a women or whatever you call is, who is slim, fairly submissive, and white. THAT is why you will generally favor that sort of women. Wait. Wouldn't that be the same as calling a guy interested only in girls a homophobe? Im pretty speechless to be honest. So, if I find the distinct features of Asians more attractive, you would call me a bigot because I don't feel the same way about white, brown or black women? I don't know if I misunderstood your post, but I feel pretty offended by it. Calling me a bigot because I find some women more attractive then others? That's Ludacris. You just took my post, that did not ONCE mention the word bigot, and managed to decide I called you a bigot. I literally cannot be bothered to repeat the same stuff over and over. You are allowed to be attracted to whomever you want. However, if you can recognize the reason that you don't find black women as attractive, which is because of subconscious racism, prejudice, or whatever you want to call it, then it helps a great deal. And no, it wouldn't be the same as that. Sexuality is something that you are born into. As a baby, you do not find black women less attractive than white. Possibly, to an extent, there is biological evidence that you find people attractive who are similar to you, but that has a small effect compared to the institutionalized racism that society places upon you. Again: Google search for female models. Google search beautiful women. When you are constantly being told as you are growing up, that an attractive female is white, you will begin to find white women more attractive. This IS racism, but people have to stop being so scared of the world. It is ok to an extend to be subconsciously racist, I for one certainly am. The key is to recognize it and work to better yourself as best you can. Isnt calling people racist in their subconscious, same as calling them a bigot? Besides, using google images to prove that we all being "told" what is good, and what is not good, is a joke to be honest. Who exactly is telling us white women are more attractive? Didn't work on me it seems...I think people are more then able to make up their own mind. Well, it isn't, I am racist in my subconscious., I am not a bigot. And what you find attractive is OF COURSE based on what you see in the media and hear off other people. The google images thing is an example. If you look in womens magazines such as vogue, white women are featured 10 times at least more than black women. You are told by society what is attractive. Billboards that are up round places you visit, 90% of women will be white. These things influence what you find attractive. I expect the collective purchasing power of white women is 9x more than that of black women for demographic and economic reasons. This isn't racism in action. In the UK most people, outside of a few areas, are white. Particularly in my town. So you're saying white women are more likely to buy a magazine with less black women in? Hmmm. I think you just made a good point as to institutionalized racism in action.
And again, as a black person this makes me laugh, while I am more attracted to white women, many of my friends are not and can relate better to other black people like musicians, stars etc than to white ones. This isn't racism at all.
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On August 01 2013 06:06 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person. And how do you know what is what? How you know that what is inherent and what is not? You cannot pick apart a certain like or dislike for something into "social" and "inherent" fraction. For you they appear as one thing.
You're right. I can't. But when likes and dislikes line up with the prejudices of the day and then people tell me "just because" or they quote some completely nonsensical "their vagina would feel bad" reason, it's kinda suspect.
And oh my god guys you cannot come into a thread and talk about your sexual preferences and expect no followup about your sex life. That's like...how discussion works.
"I really like cheeseburgers with extra pickes!"
"Where do you most commonly buy your cheeseburgers?"
"FUCK OFF MY EATING HABITS ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!"
That would only be a reasonable response if I hadn't come into the thread talking about my eating habits.
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On August 01 2013 05:50 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:43 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:35 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:23 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:22 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:18 Shodaa wrote:On August 01 2013 05:12 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:04 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 heliusx wrote:
[quote]
wait what rights are being denied? The right to force others to accept their opinions on gender and sexuality? They can't even use the correct bathroom in most states... So their right, to use the "right" bathroom, because they identify with that sex, is above the right of the rest of the people who would feel uncomfortable to share the same bathroom with someone they don't identify as the same sex? A trans woman going into men bathroom risk being attacked or worse. That also means you're fine with a trans man going into a girl bathroom ? Do you even know what you're talking about ? Unlike trans woman, trans man pretty much always pass, because testosterone is "stronger" as an hormone. Well, personally I couldn't care less. But I can still see how many would be offended by a trans "man" going into a girl bathroom. There really is no need to try and shove your "I identify with my gender so now I'm female etc" into peoples faces like that. This doesn't help their cause at all. The oppressed have no obligation to be nice to their oppressers. Sorry :c And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. "The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation" ^.^ Answered your own question mate. The majority only get uncomfortable because of their own subconscious prejudices. And I don't think you know what egocentric means... :s The question still stands. Why should transsexual people be privileged in this regard? They're doing essentially the same thing to that majority. And, sorry, but I'm not buying your whole ideology passed as science (gender studies, internalized racism and all that crap). http://www.thefreedictionary.com/egocentric"Confined in attitude or interest to one's own needs or affairs." which is exactly what I was getting at. And now you have made the full circle of jackassary. Lol. I am white, male, and straight. In no way is this my own needs or affairs. You have made a fucking dumbass assumption that I am trans or some shit just because I support equality for them. Assumptions make an ass out of you, really fucking badly in this case. Not to mention, the fact you're saying transsexual people are privileged in any way just adds to your levels of dumb.
You have problems with reading comprehension, it seems. Nowhere did I claim I believe you're transsexual. Quite clearly you're a self-hating white male that takes the gender/whatever ideology too seriously ("I prefer white women to black women, I'm such a BAD person...").
I also did not say transsexuals are privileged right now, in that regard, i.e. bathroom choice (well, depends on the country). Quite the opposite, I implied that non-transsexual people who have an issue with certain transsexuals using the same bathroom as them are priviledge - because they're in a vast majority. There's an obvious conflict of interests/rights with no real compromise possible. Either way one side is going to be privileged.
So, all in all, I'd rather say your post was being dumb, making unfounded assumptions as regards the contents of my post simply because you have trouble reading carefully.
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On August 01 2013 06:03 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:02 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:56 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:51 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:23 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
The oppressed have no obligation to be nice to their oppressers. Sorry :c And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person this makes me lol. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:38 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person I could now go on and say how offensive this post is etc but I don't. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. One is black and one is white. Black people also have more testosterone on average. On top of this, black people living in Africa will score lower on an IQ test on average, due to it being weighted towards western characteristics. How many differences can you name from a trans women and a "real" women. Also, saying you could find his post offensive is really dumb, and makes no sense at all. A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. I'm sorry for not proving to be black, I guess now I won't be allowed in this minorities circlejerk anymore A womens vagina is absolutely my business, when people like Klondike tell me to be attracted to it. No it's not your business. My vagina is absolutely none of your fucking business and I'm getting really fucking tired of people like you trying to make it their business just because I'm TRANSEXUAL! Fuck off pervert if you're so interested in vagina look one up in your daddy's magazines instead. He said I must be attracted to trans people, I am not, because they aren't real women and don't have a real vagina. People like you are exactly the ones giving trans people a bad name. When in a discussion, someone says something you don't like you just go BUT IM TRANS YOU PerV. Cute. How exactly am I supposed to react when some creepy internet perverts argue over the legitimacy of my genitals? Please enlighten me. On August 01 2013 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:23 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
The oppressed have no obligation to be nice to their oppressers. Sorry :c And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person this makes me lol. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:38 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person I could now go on and say how offensive this post is etc but I don't. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. One is black and one is white. Black people also have more testosterone on average. On top of this, black people living in Africa will score lower on an IQ test on average, due to it being weighted towards western characteristics. How many differences can you name from a trans women and a "real" women. Also, saying you could find his post offensive is really dumb, and makes no sense at all. A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. None of my business? Someone asked what differences there are and I specified a difference. The subject was brought up earlier asking what the differences are sexually, ignoring stuff like reproduction etc. Well, in my case, I would prefer to have sex with a 100% legit female vagina. I am doing my very best to be as non-offensive as possible, but I feel like there are only so many ways to say that the vaginas are not the same, and this difference will become obvious when having sex. And I assure you I could tell the difference between a warm ham and I vagina :p Oh I'm so sorry that my vagina doesn't pass your fucking weird creepy fertility test. Oh how will I ever get by knowing that your penis will never grace my loins? Jackass. If you can't discuss this issue without getting offended and calling people names, why are you here? I'm voicing my reasoning for my feelings on the issue in a polite and respectful manner. Its not my job to make sure I don't offend you, but I am doing my best to be as respectful as possible given the situation. No you aren't voicing your opinion in a reasonable or respectful manner. You're being a condescending, transphobic, douche and if that's you trying to be respectful then I feel really bad for anyone that comes into contact with you. No moderator in here? Because this was a fairly civil discussion, before someone thought his feelings were hurt and started spouting insults around
You're the one misgendering people, and you're calling for a mod ? really ? In any other thread, like LR, you would get at least a warning for misgendering on purpose.
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On August 01 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:06 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person. And how do you know what is what? How you know that what is inherent and what is not? You cannot pick apart a certain like or dislike for something into "social" and "inherent" fraction. For you they appear as one thing. You're right. I can't. But when likes and dislikes line up with the prejudices of the day and then people tell me "just because" or they quote some completely nonsensical "their vagina would feel bad" reason, it's kinda suspect. And oh my god guys you cannot come into a thread and talk about your sexual preferences and expect no followup about your sex life. That's like...how discussion works. "I really like cheeseburgers with extra pickes!" "Where do you most commonly buy your cheeseburgers?" "FUCK OFF MY EATING HABITS ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!" That would only be a reasonable response if I hadn't come into the thread talking about my eating habits.
Why do you like cheeseburgers with pickles?
Answer: because it tastes good.
Question: why?
Answer: who gives a fuck? I just like the taste.
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On August 01 2013 06:03 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:00 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:54 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior. But you have to ask yourself why you are not attracted to black women. Why is it so impossible to not be attracted to very dark skin? Why does there always have to be some social reason for it? I am really not attracted to very dark skin. This is also true for certain hispanic girls who are really dark, as well as some Indian etc girls. The fact that its also true for Indian people, who I see as, generally speaking, more intelligent than white people, makes me think its not from seeing black people as inferior. Really dark skin just isn't my thing. It's not at all impossible that you just wouldn't like dark skin. But look at our culture. Look at what it glorifies. You don't think there's a possibility that your attractions haven't been shaped by a culture that hasn't been terribly kind to minorities? Apparently I have to say this every time I post or yall will get confused: I do not mean that you have to go run out and let minorities DP you while a fat man shits on your chest and you moan with pleasure. The Klondike forced intercourse farm does not, nor has it ever, existed.
And if it was influenced by their culture and surroundings, so what? The nurture part of nature vs nurture is still important, my experienced help define who I am. Are they invalid because they're not ingrained in me at a molecular level? Is a person who's trans because of their experiences as a child instead of the natural chemistry in their brain suddenly invalid because they weren't born that way?
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On August 01 2013 06:08 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:03 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:02 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:56 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:51 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:
[quote]
And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person this makes me lol. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:38 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
As a black person I could now go on and say how offensive this post is etc but I don't.
There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. One is black and one is white. Black people also have more testosterone on average. On top of this, black people living in Africa will score lower on an IQ test on average, due to it being weighted towards western characteristics. How many differences can you name from a trans women and a "real" women. Also, saying you could find his post offensive is really dumb, and makes no sense at all. A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. I'm sorry for not proving to be black, I guess now I won't be allowed in this minorities circlejerk anymore A womens vagina is absolutely my business, when people like Klondike tell me to be attracted to it. No it's not your business. My vagina is absolutely none of your fucking business and I'm getting really fucking tired of people like you trying to make it their business just because I'm TRANSEXUAL! Fuck off pervert if you're so interested in vagina look one up in your daddy's magazines instead. He said I must be attracted to trans people, I am not, because they aren't real women and don't have a real vagina. People like you are exactly the ones giving trans people a bad name. When in a discussion, someone says something you don't like you just go BUT IM TRANS YOU PerV. Cute. How exactly am I supposed to react when some creepy internet perverts argue over the legitimacy of my genitals? Please enlighten me. On August 01 2013 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:
[quote]
And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person this makes me lol. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:38 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
As a black person I could now go on and say how offensive this post is etc but I don't.
There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. One is black and one is white. Black people also have more testosterone on average. On top of this, black people living in Africa will score lower on an IQ test on average, due to it being weighted towards western characteristics. How many differences can you name from a trans women and a "real" women. Also, saying you could find his post offensive is really dumb, and makes no sense at all. A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. None of my business? Someone asked what differences there are and I specified a difference. The subject was brought up earlier asking what the differences are sexually, ignoring stuff like reproduction etc. Well, in my case, I would prefer to have sex with a 100% legit female vagina. I am doing my very best to be as non-offensive as possible, but I feel like there are only so many ways to say that the vaginas are not the same, and this difference will become obvious when having sex. And I assure you I could tell the difference between a warm ham and I vagina :p Oh I'm so sorry that my vagina doesn't pass your fucking weird creepy fertility test. Oh how will I ever get by knowing that your penis will never grace my loins? Jackass. If you can't discuss this issue without getting offended and calling people names, why are you here? I'm voicing my reasoning for my feelings on the issue in a polite and respectful manner. Its not my job to make sure I don't offend you, but I am doing my best to be as respectful as possible given the situation. No you aren't voicing your opinion in a reasonable or respectful manner. You're being a condescending, transphobic, douche and if that's you trying to be respectful then I feel really bad for anyone that comes into contact with you. No moderator in here? Because this was a fairly civil discussion, before someone thought his feelings were hurt and started spouting insults around Civilized? You have got to be kidding. You are continuously insulting trans members and expecting not to get yelled at? I'm sick of seeing people like you insist that I'm fake. You're treating this argument like a zoo. We're all in cages while you discuss the legitimacy of our lives. You have no respect for any of us and if you do you sure as hell have a shitty way of showing it.
I don't want to insult you in any way. Just saying you aren't a real women, which is true, or are you able to give birth etc?
He asked why I wouldn't be attracted to trans people? The answer is because they aren't real, biological women.
If someone were attracted to white people, she wouldn't find me attractive, because I am not white. This isn't derogatory in any way or form. It's just calling things for what they are.
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