North Korea says/does surprising and alarming thing - Page…

On February 18 2014 23:02 mahrgell wrote:


After living in SK, i can tell you:
Germany is the most said reason, why so man south koreans do NOT want the reunification...
a) Western Germany(WG) had about 3 times as many ppl as Eeastern Germany(EG) - In Korea it is about SK:NK 2:1
b) EG was the leading economical power among then whole east block... NK is a stone age country, with >50% of the population working for or supplying the military which again is at no economical relevant level (selling tanks from the 60's won't work...)
c) EG population was quite well informed and educated... propaganda happened, but didn't fully succeed. - NK population has close to 0 outside information sources, general education level is quite low, and propaganda is the only thing most have ever known
d) german reunification happened peaceful and a significant part of the population wanted a unified Germany, led by western germany. - The Kims won't leave power by themselves, and with propaganda having done it's work, you won't that friendly welcome for a SK led unified Korea
e) the protective power of EG (the SU) allowed the unification and it would have never happened without their approval... China won't allow it now or will ever allow it with NK.
f) WG was already an economical powerhouse for quite some time at this point (30 years), fully westernized, and only slightly derailed by the war... (but back on track quite fast after it) - SK is quite happy about their rise in the last decades... But they are still not there yet... Their cultural changes are still not completed and are trying to catch up and adopt to their new situation. They fear to lose their hard fought progress by trying to pull NK out of the mud...
g) the relations between EG and WG were not always good on political levels, but the populations were still somehow connected and communication was not impossible - the ties between NK and SK do not really exist anymore beside some families split 50 years ago... that had basically no chance to communicate since then

And now thinking that the german reunification was a full success is also wrong...
the differences between EG and WG still exist today, in terms of economy and also in the heads of the ppl... (I'm tired of seeing every poll split in EG and WG, even today or my dad telling me, that this politician or athlete is from EG/WG etc... but it is still like that for most parts of germany...)

The (south) Koreans watched the german reunification very closely... and they know their preconditions are way worse on all levels... There is not much to gain for them.

On February 18 2014 17:29 Elroi wrote:

According to the R2P norm you lose your soveregnity if you commit ethnical cleansing. (Not that it matters if the country doesn't have oil or is interesting for some other geopolitical reason.)

On February 18 2014 18:36 Pniski wrote:
The post that I responded to was strictly about the legal aspect of it. The only thing I was trying to point out was that a legal justification exists out there

On February 18 2014 16:43 Cascade wrote:

I guess US found the loophole in 1) by invading non-neighbouring countries.

On February 19 2014 03:55 riyanme wrote:


i agree. economic wise, having a unified KR is suicide move for SK.
was just trolling with samsung... knowing their assests/equity is even bigger than mid tier countries...
why not samsung buy NK... create an NK.Commie[LOLteam], NK.KJU.Elites[SC2team]

kidding aside, i really believe the SK government wants unification...
economic issues can be solved.. the question here is KJU...
there is absolutely no way until he and his tree dead....

SK is getting there... who would thought SK would be like this 14 years ago...
if SK has lands even half of china, i bet SK will replace US as #1...
although CH is toppling US now...

On February 19 2014 11:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:


Technically, we conquered half of Mexico and invaded Canada (British territory technically, since it was a British territorial colony at the time), and I won't even speak on the matter of genocide. But that was back in the 1800s and before when people could do whatever they wanted. lol.

But in all seriousness, North Korea's sovereignty, and the same goes for any nation, would be violated by being invaded and it's sovereignty lost by being conquered, not by anything Pniski wrote (which doesn't make sense at all..)

Basically the discussion of sovereignty is null. Sovereignty deals with a nation's own government ruling that nation (obviously this doesn't take things like the influence of modern-era hegemonic imperialism, multinational corporatism, and other matters into account), not what said government does.


LOL! Are you serious?

China is literally an extremely bad place to live. Not only that, but half the population are rural peasants, and almost all the rest are urban wage slaves. There's tons of other details, but there are many, many places that are better than China. This is "toppling US now"? XD The only benefit China has is extreme overpopulation, so much so that actually modernized countries can see a huge opportunity to invest in due to the huge amount of labor, which generates more capital for said countries. But all-in-all, China is a developing country that is leaps and bounds away from being labeled developed.

Are you referring to GDP? They have little over half the GDP of the USA, and more than 4x the population. Also, while GDP is an indicator of economic size, there's many other factors in determining how much wealth they actually get. For example, let's say a US oil company develops oil fields in a foreign country and get a huge percentage of the profits. However, since all the "oil" is produced within said country, all of that produced oil counts into the host country's GDP. Meanwhile, it's actually a foreign company that's accumulating most of the generated wealth (since the refined products of oil are exponentially more valuable/expensive). It's all about getting a return on investments. In other words, even GDP can be a misleading figure of wealth. If I do $1,000 of work a day, but my boss takes $999 of it, my "personal GDP", if you will, is still $1,000. But I only get $1 XD Let's not forget either that most of the investment/wealth is concentrated in a few cities in China as is often the case in developing countries, giving a very deceitful representation of how a country is doing. Although, most of Beijing is pretty ghetto apparently :x

On February 20 2014 08:51 sc2holar wrote:
We know that Russia was capable of developing their Dead Hand system back in the 60s, what if North Korea constructs the next "Doomsday device"? the technology seems pretty acessible.

On February 20 2014 10:21 KwarK wrote:
The point being that you don't fuck with people who have second strike capability which NK could feasibly have, albeit something low tech and probably aimed at SK or Japan.

On February 20 2014 08:22 riyanme wrote:


was giving my fearless forcast...
obviously its not there yet, but comming...
just as russia was swept out of nowhere...
give it 20-30 years from now...

honestly, i dont like china "to grow like that"...
nowadays, china is starting to exert its power...
while us is boxing out its possible superpower contender to replace them...
from oil "explotiation", warmonging liberation and others...

would still prefer us to lead in the future...

On February 20 2014 11:25 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:

NK should be able to launch a second strike barring the most extreme of circumstances, even without a fail-deadly system. We aren't ever going to nuke them, which means the only option we have is locating and simultaneously disabling all their nuclear devices, either directly or by dealing debilitating damage to their C4I systems.
There are no methods that accomplish this reliably enough (barring nuclear bombardment) to justify gambling thousands of lives for what would likely be a negative gain.

I will admit one could speculate about the political intrigues and how they may affect NK's second-strike capabilities, but that's pure speculation. We have no idea what's going on over there, and even if there was significant political infighting, we can't gamble on all the NK leaders being calm, collected people who always come quietly and never snap when they realize that their lives are over.

On February 20 2014 10:21 KwarK wrote:
The point being that you don't fuck with people who have second strike capability which NK could feasibly have, albeit something low tech and probably aimed at SK or Japan.

On February 20 2014 13:05 Nyxisto wrote:
The reason no one's intervening in NK isn't because their military capabilities are so huge, but because there's no geopolitical gain for anyone there. China likes NK as a buffer zone, the US does not have the public backup to start any more wars(and also no money), and South Korea has probably no interest in spending trillions on reunification and Europe is basically completely off the table anyway.

On February 20 2014 16:05 ETisME wrote:

Just to add:

China doesn't really like NK all that much as a buffer zone anymore, NK raises unwanted international attention and has to step up with NK to show that China will not just turn their back on the allies.

US doesn't care much about NK either, we all know NK will not do anything because NK is one of the easiest countries when it comes to diplomat.
NK threats are predictable and kind of simple to deal with.
when there is "real" trouble, NK would even ask for aids.
There is also no resources to gain over there, they lose votes, they lose resources, they lose everything and risking a real threat to the stability in the region.
Not to mention they probably like NK being NK.
A lot of SEA countries like Japan, SK and Taiwan dislike the amount of influences US have onto them.

Japan for example, while disliking those US military bases in their country and one of the biggest topic is about the location of the bases etc.
they also need to have US support since they are not in good terms with China, and repeatedly doing aggressive moves like visiting the shrine. (for voters or nation pride or whatever)
a lot of Taiwanese are beginning to becoming aware of the amount of money spent purchasing over priced weapons from the US as well.

SK and NK are both not too into reunification despite what they might show/say, on the surface there are talks etc because the West and the international community wants to see peace (maybe just so that we can have a stable world for stable economy development more than actually worrying for warheads).
But do we ever see progress? Do we even care if there is progress?
No.

I don't have the source with me but SK has been making it harder for NK runner to get into SK, one excuse they used was that they want increase security for SK, just in case they are spies.
As for NK, lol they can't even support the people living in NK very well, why would they want SK people to reunify to NK (other than the propaganda we are all koreans and SK are only controlled by the evil capitalists)

As for JudicatorHammurabi's comment on China, you are far underestimating how much of an influence China have in international communities today.
Look at how China and Russia stopped US request to intervene in Serbia. If this was UN, US could have intervened without even a care about what others would think.
China also holds a huge amount of reserves of many rare resources and developed great economic ties with developing countries such as India.
China only has grudge with Japan, same with many other SE countries that got invaded by Imperial Japan back in WW2.

One thing that most people tend to forget is that the Chinese government has only established for 65 years, and for a fairly long time, China was struggling due to the failed policies and internal political fights.
The amount of regional conflicts between China and other countries (not Japan) are much smaller and less important than you would believe. It's not even a big political topic over in those countries.
In fact, considering how messy all these regional conflicts are, China is doing great. The relationship between Taiwan and China is doing better than ever as both are having more ties together.

A lot of these conflicts are not caused by China and their respective country in conflict, these are mostly caused by the the Allies decisions, especially the US.
US has something to do with the origin for the conflict in the diaoyou island with their treaties with Japan;
the evidences held back from the US during the tokyo trail (unit 731 for example);
The Allies was the one who divided Korea during the Potsdam Conference as well.

So when the US or whichever western countries are arguing China is raising instability in the region, I really hope they would remember the past and educate their citizens.

On February 20 2014 18:54 riyanme wrote:


agree...
for those who dont live in asian countries can't see china's influence...
nearly half of earth (asian region and neighbors), china has a "say"... no this and no that...
i can only see 2 factions banging in the future...

team 1#
us liberation front
(uk, italy)
us = slowly being "attacked" by mass exodus of the so called "american dream"... would not be surprise if us will became an m&ms (lots of colors to choose from)
europe allies = we do need a real life james bond, who doesnt?

team #2
china and friends
(russia and nk)
nk = a double edge sword... china can use them as bait for wars, much for buffers.... its like having a crazy rabid dog on chains as house guards...
russia = i honestly believe they still have that nukes... waiting for the right time (empire strikes back)


team #3
the neutral boys
(bullied countries and such)

sorry but i stand on my opinion that chinese are more arrogant than us...
they think they are destined to be "the one", the center of world and other crazy claims...
i dont know about you guys but do you know that they have their own world map? (china on the center instead of italy)
the only thing that hindered their assencion to greatness was their prehistoric weaponry...
slowly they are crawling back... i dont know if you see this guys...
back in history, one could argue that china was and is the greatest civilization ever...
in a way china and nk share "common" interest and leadership...
i think most people here dont have a solid background history of asia...

ww3 could happend if
...us will insist on its warmonging happy campaign (im the boss, no questions ask)
...china chewing here and there
or worse, nk will be used...

On February 20 2014 19:42 ETisME wrote:

your opinion in China is completely wrong.
China has never been much of a conqueror.
They have pride themselves as the most civilized country in the world back a thousands years or so.
They have set sails to many other countries, such as Korea, India and never ever tried to conquer them or set up colonies.
China was constantly under the invasion from nearby tribes and countries, this is why there is a great wall of China while the rest of the world loves to conquer and show off their collections in museums, setting up colonies.

In fact, if you are into Chinese history, you would know that there was a few invaders that successfully invaded and became Emperor of China, (I think not more than 300 years ago).
their people had a culture just like the Mongolians, and didn't know how to govern a country with city life, and what happened? They got assimilated by the Chinese culture and the King spent a lot of time trying to bend both people together and began one of the most successful dynasty China ever had.
This is why China pride themselves in their culture because the social teaching such as respect, being kind, appreciation for parents have led to many greatness and spread across the SEA.

but you are not completely off.
China in Chinese is 中國, meaning the center country.
Those surrounding countries are taught by China, it's called the Sinosphere.
Japan, having pride themselves with the chinese teachings and having a strong culture and independency , also called themselves 中國 for one point.
Vietname called China as the Northern part, while they are the Southern part.

Korea used to called themselves 小中華, which means they take in Chinese social teachings such as respect etc and will never cross the line and settle for being a smaller country than China.
You are wrong in the sense that China want to govern the world.
They want the world to learn from them.

「合久必分，分久必合」
This sayings show exactly what I mean.
it means country (land) that are joined together for very long will break apart, and when they are apart for very long, they will be joint again.
This is a saying that China learnt from their thousands of histories and this is one reason why China is so patient with Taiwan.

And also, I don't know where you saw it from, most of the maps in China (can't say all), are just like the maps as the rest of the world.

I don't know why you have to split up the factions like that.
It's not like China was always friends with USSR and China was always the mortal enemy with the US.
In fact, recently US seems to getting more supportive with China in the conflicts between China and Japan.

On February 20 2014 10:21 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:

The Dead Hand system is merely a fail-deadly system that ensures nuclear war even if your command structure was destroyed in the first-strike.
Fail-deadly systems like it are fairly unthreatening (it is very unlikely for a nuclear-armed nation to be defeated without them launching their nukes) and don't constitute a "doomsday device" in even the mildest sense of the word. It merely underscores the fact that they have nukes.