EPTThat'd be an unenforceable overly intrusive nightmare. I'd rather 30 kids died every now and then.
Connecticut school shooting - Page 29
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The gun control argument stops now. I know it's fun to argue about it in the heat of the tragedy when you can get all worked up about it but it's pretty disrespectful and if you don't care enough about the issue to make a separate topic for gun control then you don't care enough to shit on the tragedy by exploiting it. A gun control topic can be found here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313472 Also stop posting links to his facebook. TL will be no part of an unconfirmed witch hunt. | ||
KwarK
United States43355 Posts
That'd be an unenforceable overly intrusive nightmare. I'd rather 30 kids died every now and then. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:20 Mu` wrote: I'm trying to explain the difference between "madness", "illness", whatever and politically "justified" (tricky word) acts. So it may well be tangent but not necessarily irrelevant (we'll find out soon). So you quoted someone talking about how media sensationalises murder as your talking point? | ||
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StatixEx
United Kingdom779 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:21 KwarK wrote: StatixEx That'd be an unenforceable overly intrusive nightmare. I'd rather 30 kids died every now and then. are you for real? | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:19 StatixEx wrote: if you actually just step back for 1 second and think, HOW did this happen? Im a school teacher and can fully understand that your guard is totally down for something like this and anyone can seem to get onto the premises no matter what you do to keep them out. Schools need to get more LOCKED down from start to end. Kids late get fined and sent home or ordered to stay at home, the school has some sort of VLE to do home learning or even stream the lesson. (of course if u know about teaching the unions would never have this) but id sooner do a bit more work than face the possibility of people getting massacred including me. Its a totally impossible situation to predict but i think the hard line has to be taken now. Noone in without a card, students, everyone, and globally announce that you just stay away from school premises NO EXCEPTIONS. totally impossible to implement this of course but god damn it, just imagine is this was your child or your family, you wouldnt stop for 1 second and agree that if this is the way its got to be, no matter the inconvenience and logistical mess, this is the way its got to be im disgusted and it makes me more mad that these people werent identified as odd well before. teachers could play an important role of flagging individuals in school who show tendencies like this. Just a thought, its making me more angry and sorry to more i think about this Flagging someone as a possible mass murderer is like impossible simply because of odd behavior. And what do you mean by "tendencies like this",what tendencies?Did the guy shoot someone before? These things are impossible to predict and people should realize this. | ||
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BillClinton
232 Posts
I guess one of the reason why these shootings seem to increase every year is the fact that we live more and more in a society (or maybe world) of narcissism. If you want to end your life, you have to take the most innocents to death along, its the bitter price society has to pay for its ignorance. | ||
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ssj114
Afghanistan461 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:21 KwarK wrote: StatixEx That'd be an unenforceable overly intrusive nightmare. I'd rather 30 kids died every now and then. Indeed, but then you'd probably not be thinking that way if it was your kid(s) involved. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
I don't know, it doesn't sound ideal but it doesn't sound terrible either. | ||
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KwarK
United States43355 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:24 StatixEx wrote: of course it is i think i tried to say that! Infact i think i did. You need to read are you for real? Ideally no children would get shot but I'd rather have the current level of security and accept the risks than turn schools into fortified bunkers with draconian restrictions and drive children to and from them in armoured vehicles. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:26 Dodgin wrote: I don't see how making it more difficult to enter a school during the school hours is an overly intrusive nightmare. School starts, no one can get in or out without going through security until school is over. No one gets let inside without a student or teacher ID, or if they're a relative of a student. If people have to leave or go inside they go through security instead of walking through the unlocked front door. I don't know, it doesn't sound ideal but it doesn't sound terrible either. You think a guy with guns and the intention to kill gives a damn about locked doors lol?He could just as well wait for the school to finish and shoot every single one that comes out. | ||
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StatixEx
United Kingdom779 Posts
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PanN
United States2828 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:26 Dodgin wrote: I don't see how making it more difficult to enter a school during the school hours is an overly intrusive nightmare. School starts, no one can get in or out without going through security until school is over. No one gets let inside without a student or teacher ID, or if they're a relative of a student. If people have to leave or go inside they go through security instead of walking through the unlocked front door. I don't know, it doesn't sound ideal but it doesn't sound terrible either. We'd have to have armed guards at every single school in order for this to work. A shooter isn't going to say "oh snap, i forgot my id, guess i cant go and shoot up my school today." Then what happens when one of those armed guards decides to shoot the school up? We're going to need armed guards guarding armed guards. | ||
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KwarK
United States43355 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:26 Dodgin wrote: I don't see how making it more difficult to enter a school during the school hours is an overly intrusive nightmare. School starts, no one can get in or out without going through security until school is over. No one gets let inside without a student or teacher ID, or if they're a relative of a student. If people have to leave or go inside they go through security instead of walking through the unlocked front door. I don't know, it doesn't sound ideal but it doesn't sound terrible either. A man walks in with four guns, a bulletproof vest and you expect an ID card checker to stop him? You're going to need high walls with constant surveillance, bulletproof glass, armed guards and maybe some military dogs for good measure. A minefield wouldn't hurt too. For the children. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:27 TheKefka wrote: You think a guy with guns gives a damn about locked doors lol?He could just as well wait for the school to finish and shoot every single one that comes out. Like I said It's not ideal and not a perfect solution, I'm just going over the idea in my head. Sure they can wait for school to end and then act and sure they can enter by force. I'm just saying it may be a method of prevention or at least forewarning, if someone breaks down a door and the security is disabled. | ||
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Kyhol
Canada2575 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:28 KwarK wrote: A man walks in with four guns, a bulletproof vest and you expect an ID card checker to stop him? You're going to need high walls with constant surveillance, bulletproof glass, armed guards and maybe some military dogs for good measure. A minefield wouldn't hurt too. For the children. It's pretty easy to throw out a 'solution' with no thought to the consequences, cost and effectiveness. In this case the kids would get almost no learning done, it would cost a fortune and if people wanted to shoot up a school they could still do it. | ||
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johanes
Czech Republic2229 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:27 KwarK wrote: Ideally no children would get shot but I'd rather have the current level of security and accept the risks than turn schools into fortified bunkers with draconian restrictions and drive children to and from them in armoured vehicles. Yeah, KwarK is right. Freedom comes with a price. And even with the harsh security restrictions - how can you be sure that some teacher doesn't get mad and this fortified school becomes a death trap suddenly? Bad things happen. People die. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:27 StatixEx wrote: yes kefka but its a start no? Pretty much ALL of the idiot kids at school i grew up with have all been in jail at some point. so . . .what? Looks like i called a problem when i was 8, i could of saved the government the money,. Students who have left me who were idiots have since been pulled up by the police . . hmmm pattern. Not saying that they go full on retard with the murder but mostly we spotted antisocial/evil conduct early . . . just sayin I don't get it what exactly do you want to do with them?Jail them for a crime they didn't commit? There is no pattern that indicates that someone will go on a shooting spree and you can't predict it.From all the other shootings you can clearly see that they were carefully planed mostly by the killers and no one on the outside knew about it really or could have predicted it in their wildest dreams. There's no point in making schools a high security maximum prison just because of a rare,unpredictable occurrence like this one. | ||
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StatixEx
United Kingdom779 Posts
nono kefka, you do nothing with this data but people know and if things start happening in latter life and they have these flags, intervention can be early. Please take my 2 sentence idea and try and think my idea out, im not going to sit here all night fully explaining everything. i fucking hate forms for theory craft. noone reads and applies and understanding process u latch on to 3 words and then just bash it . . .dont even know why im bothering to post, nothing i say will make a difference but my method would have been steps to prevent. Why must i stand on the corridors at break times? Presence. Kids dont come in the school and run around the corridors. if i miss my duty, its like hells broke loose. simple example, i provide the deterant and kids stay out. you create a deterrent and it usually works. now re read my post. if its an accepted idea that you just stay the fuck away from schools then this wont happen or at least be VERY rare but as i said in my original post, impossible to implement so we just need another way of looking at it | ||
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KwarK
United States43355 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:25 ssj114 wrote: Indeed, but then you'd probably not be thinking that way if it was your kid(s) involved. Which is why we don't entrust public policy to the bereaved parents of murdered children. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On December 15 2012 08:28 KwarK wrote: A man walks in with four guns, a bulletproof vest and you expect an ID card checker to stop him? You're going to need high walls with constant surveillance, bulletproof glass, armed guards and maybe some military dogs for good measure. A minefield wouldn't hurt too. For the children. Of course nothing is going to stop someone if they're that determined and heavily armed with bulletproof equipment, but it may prevent students from bringing weapons to school or unprepared adults who don't plan ahead. I'm not sure what the rate of incidents like those happening is as opposed to what happened here. I guess this kind of falls into the same zone as the gun control debate where as " people who do this aren't using legal weapons, it would make no difference " but instead " people who do this aren't amateurs and you can't protect against something like this " Like you said though, It's probably not worth it. I was just firing off an idea without thinking it through. | ||
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