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On October 12 2012 04:19 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 04:08 armada[sb] wrote:On October 12 2012 03:55 Wrath 2.1 wrote:
that's good. Sex life should be something private and not something that needs advertising or parades. That's good? How in the hell is that good? Gay pride parades being cancelled because of threats of violence, people not being able to show affection to their loved one because of fear of persecution/prosecution, outlawing of homosexuality in media? Explain to me where in this there is any good? I'll be waiting. Sex life may not need advertising or parades, but equality sure as shit does. The problem is the misconception that all gays are like the annoying vocal minority that wants to shove their sexuality in your face and be seen as "special" for it. That minority is ruining it for the rest, the way I see it, which is awful...
Yeah I agree. I feel like the only people that would care for these parades and such is homosexual people themselves. Think about it, those people who don't have an issue against them wouldn't notice it as something super important and the opposite end of the spectrum just don't give a shit anyway, there isn't really anything that you do to change their perception. Most of them are really close-minded people so persuasion just won't work.
And I agree about rubbing it on the people's face aspect which is really not nice imo.. Organize conferences, seminars, talk about the current issues regarding the rights and problems that gay people face, support foundations etc., but a parade just to show off? It always felt stupid to me.
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I demand that someone define what qualifies as "offensive," in such a way where the argument cannot be obliterated with a counterargument of extremes, or is somehow not applicable when using the same examples involving heterosexuality.
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On October 12 2012 04:19 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 04:08 armada[sb] wrote:On October 12 2012 03:55 Wrath 2.1 wrote:
that's good. Sex life should be something private and not something that needs advertising or parades. That's good? How in the hell is that good? Gay pride parades being cancelled because of threats of violence, people not being able to show affection to their loved one because of fear of persecution/prosecution, outlawing of homosexuality in media? Explain to me where in this there is any good? I'll be waiting. Sex life may not need advertising or parades, but equality sure as shit does. The problem is the misconception that all gays are like the annoying vocal minority that wants to shove their sexuality in your face and be seen as "special" for it. That minority is ruining it for the rest, the way I see it, which is awful...
Sorry, but how is this a problem that warrants oppression?
Why are you dressing them in a cloak of guilt because others are evil?
On October 12 2012 07:44 Bleak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 04:19 tMomiji wrote:On October 12 2012 04:08 armada[sb] wrote:On October 12 2012 03:55 Wrath 2.1 wrote:
that's good. Sex life should be something private and not something that needs advertising or parades. That's good? How in the hell is that good? Gay pride parades being cancelled because of threats of violence, people not being able to show affection to their loved one because of fear of persecution/prosecution, outlawing of homosexuality in media? Explain to me where in this there is any good? I'll be waiting. Sex life may not need advertising or parades, but equality sure as shit does. The problem is the misconception that all gays are like the annoying vocal minority that wants to shove their sexuality in your face and be seen as "special" for it. That minority is ruining it for the rest, the way I see it, which is awful... Yeah I agree. I feel like the only people that would care for these parades and such is homosexual people themselves. Think about it, those people who don't have an issue against them wouldn't notice it as something super important and the opposite end of the spectrum just don't give a shit anyway, there isn't really anything that you do to change their perception. Most of them are really close-minded people so persuasion just won't work. And I agree about rubbing it on the people's face aspect which is really not nice imo.. Organize conferences, seminars, talk about the current issues regarding the rights and problems that gay people face, support foundations etc., but a parade just to show off? It always felt stupid to me.
Then don't participate; but do not contemplate oppression...????
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On October 12 2012 07:44 Bleak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 04:19 tMomiji wrote:On October 12 2012 04:08 armada[sb] wrote:On October 12 2012 03:55 Wrath 2.1 wrote:
that's good. Sex life should be something private and not something that needs advertising or parades. That's good? How in the hell is that good? Gay pride parades being cancelled because of threats of violence, people not being able to show affection to their loved one because of fear of persecution/prosecution, outlawing of homosexuality in media? Explain to me where in this there is any good? I'll be waiting. Sex life may not need advertising or parades, but equality sure as shit does. The problem is the misconception that all gays are like the annoying vocal minority that wants to shove their sexuality in your face and be seen as "special" for it. That minority is ruining it for the rest, the way I see it, which is awful... Yeah I agree. I feel like the only people that would care for these parades and such is homosexual people themselves. Think about it, those people who don't have an issue against them wouldn't notice it as something super important and the opposite end of the spectrum just don't give a shit anyway, there isn't really anything that you do to change their perception. Most of them are really close-minded people so persuasion just won't work. And I agree about rubbing it on the people's face aspect which is really not nice imo.. Organize conferences, seminars, talk about the current issues regarding the rights and problems that gay people face, support foundations etc., but a parade just to show off? It always felt stupid to me.
Parades exist because they are fucking fun seriously. I don't know why we have 4th of July parades, they are just throwing their patriotism in my face (oh wait, I know why we have them, because their are people who go to them and enjoy them, of course!). If you don't like parades don't go to them and if enough people dislike them they won't happen.
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On October 12 2012 08:08 Smat wrote:if enough people dislike them they won't happen.
lol... how do you explain Westboro Baptist Church or KKK rallies?
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Very often when there is some anti-gay attitude on TL it's from posters from Eastern European countries that will say how unnatural and sick it is. I imagine it's not as bad there as in some other places in the world, but it's still kinda sad since it's so close to Western Europe.
On October 12 2012 07:44 Bleak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 04:19 tMomiji wrote:On October 12 2012 04:08 armada[sb] wrote:On October 12 2012 03:55 Wrath 2.1 wrote:
that's good. Sex life should be something private and not something that needs advertising or parades. That's good? How in the hell is that good? Gay pride parades being cancelled because of threats of violence, people not being able to show affection to their loved one because of fear of persecution/prosecution, outlawing of homosexuality in media? Explain to me where in this there is any good? I'll be waiting. Sex life may not need advertising or parades, but equality sure as shit does. The problem is the misconception that all gays are like the annoying vocal minority that wants to shove their sexuality in your face and be seen as "special" for it. That minority is ruining it for the rest, the way I see it, which is awful... Yeah I agree. I feel like the only people that would care for these parades and such is homosexual people themselves. Think about it, those people who don't have an issue against them wouldn't notice it as something super important and the opposite end of the spectrum just don't give a shit anyway, there isn't really anything that you do to change their perception. Most of them are really close-minded people so persuasion just won't work. And I agree about rubbing it on the people's face aspect which is really not nice imo.. Organize conferences, seminars, talk about the current issues regarding the rights and problems that gay people face, support foundations etc., but a parade just to show off? It always felt stupid to me.
The purpose of such a parade is not to deliberately annoy close-minded people, but it's a nice bonus. Unfortunately, life is tough and sometimes we will have to be confronted with our own weaknesses. If you find gay people 'icky', then it's really your problem and you have no right to complain about how others impose on you and about how offensive it is.
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Why aren't there any straight pride parades?
Now THAT is discrimination.
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On October 12 2012 04:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
It's interesting how the Slavic nations that were the pioneers of social freedoms and human equality are now becoming rather conservative and contradicting their policies of the 20th century.
That is indeed very sad 
And this gay topic is far from the only manifestation of this unfortunate trend 
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On October 12 2012 09:40 autoexec wrote:
Why aren't there any straight pride parades?
Now THAT is discrimination.
WTF. Gay pride parades hardly exist because straight people don't feel oppressed because of their sexuality.
From what Ukraine is doing, it's evident that gays are being oppressed.
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Disgusting. I was in a good humor until this. Fun thing is I was just talking with my sister about some extreme right-wing shit that is going on east europe.
On October 12 2012 09:40 autoexec wrote:
Why aren't there any straight pride parades?
Now THAT is discrimination.
Because straight people are not oppressed and said you are wrong for being what you are 24/7 365 days a week for the rest of your life.
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The people who say "why aren't there straight pride parades" are probably the same people who wonder why there is no affirmative action for white people.
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On October 12 2012 09:40 autoexec wrote:
Why aren't there any straight pride parades?
Now THAT is discrimination.
Are you fucking serious?
Go ahead and organize a Straight Pride Parade. Who is stopping you?
What I want to know is why there aren't straight kids committing suicide because they're being bullied for being straight.
Why aren't straight kids being told they are going to burn in hell for being straight?
Let's even out the playing field here.
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On October 12 2012 07:44 Bleak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 04:19 tMomiji wrote:On October 12 2012 04:08 armada[sb] wrote:On October 12 2012 03:55 Wrath 2.1 wrote:
that's good. Sex life should be something private and not something that needs advertising or parades. That's good? How in the hell is that good? Gay pride parades being cancelled because of threats of violence, people not being able to show affection to their loved one because of fear of persecution/prosecution, outlawing of homosexuality in media? Explain to me where in this there is any good? I'll be waiting. Sex life may not need advertising or parades, but equality sure as shit does. The problem is the misconception that all gays are like the annoying vocal minority that wants to shove their sexuality in your face and be seen as "special" for it. That minority is ruining it for the rest, the way I see it, which is awful... Yeah I agree. I feel like the only people that would care for these parades and such is homosexual people themselves. Think about it, those people who don't have an issue against them wouldn't notice it as something super important and the opposite end of the spectrum just don't give a shit anyway, there isn't really anything that you do to change their perception. Most of them are really close-minded people so persuasion just won't work. And I agree about rubbing it on the people's face aspect which is really not nice imo.. Organize conferences, seminars, talk about the current issues regarding the rights and problems that gay people face, support foundations etc., but a parade just to show off? It always felt stupid to me.
That's too bad.
It's about self-dignity. It doesn't fucking matter if it seems unnecessary to you because they aren't doing it for you. People from these community have been fucked around long enough throughout history and they're tired of hiding. Liberal nations, primarily in the West, are the only places that have grown up as a society to allow these people to finally gain the respect and tolerance enough for these parades to occur. They are a natural evolution of the riots and demonstrations of bygone eras when they were viewed as less than human by the majority of the population.
Once people stop giving a fuck about homosexuals like people don't give a fuck that you're straight, then we'll talk. But this isn't the time.
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"Gay Propaganda" and other campaigns of awareness of the issues are necessary. When a group is marginalized in society they need ways to get their plight out there to the greater public. Its why they do parades and have advocacy groups. You wouldn't talk down to people who were fighting for civil rights for "throwing their race views in your face". Why is this different? If society was better at accepting people different than themselves they wouldn't do things like that because there wouldn't be a need to celebrate being gay when if its considered just part of the normal spectrum of sexuality. The fact that they were marginalized is what makes them stand out and have to fight against it and you can't fault a group of people for doing what they can to gain rights that they should be entitled to in the first place.
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On October 12 2012 07:37 hypercube wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 07:29 xM(Z wrote:On October 12 2012 07:18 hypercube wrote:On October 12 2012 07:07 xM(Z wrote:
majority should rule but it never did.
do you think 'the majority' started the crusade against homosexuals?. fuck, just get over yourself. the majority was always spoonfed with bullshit they didn't even cared about and still, they did what they always do: mind their own business and just 'go with the times'. Oh, come on. Eastern Europe and the Balkans are still deeply homophobic. Some of it is religious influence but that's certainly not all. There might be politicians who try to use it for their own purpose but it's been there all along. are you trying to say that people in the Balkans are born homophobes?. No, they learn it from their peers, their parents and everyone else around them. But it's not coming from a small group of individuals, it's deeply ingrained in society.
they learn that is wrong to be one; they don't learn to hate them nor that they need to hurt them. that is the product of the same herd mentality you see everywhere arround you.
proper education and time solves everything. i mean, look at your western world; you have legalized homosexuality dacades ago but to this day when someone comes out it's like a holiday. and why is that?, 'cause they are still tacitly opressed by others. in schools, at their work place, on the streets. the ones openly gay are the ones that can afford to be; either materially, socially or emotionally.
there's no law that can forbid hate you know. if you just teach people that it's ok to be gay you won't need a law to protect gays after they have already been victimized.
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There are a lot of views that are stigmatized by modern western culture. For example, vegetarians and vegans can be constantly harassed by people who eat meat (including their own families) simply because they choose not to. I wondered why this was for a loooong time until I saw a youtube video where the guy explains it perfectly. Basically, he thinks that meat-eaters see vegetarians/vegans as passively judging them as inferior for eating meat.
Americans even have holidays that are centered around meat-eating, including Thanksgiving, where turkey is traditionally the main dish, and Christmas, where ham is traditionally served. Vegans, a subset of vegetarians, can get every nutrient their body needs without eating meat, so it isn't unhealthy to be vegan. Yet if you go to your family Thanksgiving and refuse the turkey that is served, you could risk being socially exiled.
Another American social stigma is men with long hair. If you listen to your tv you may find this negative view towards men with long hair actively being reinforced. Often the man with long hair also has a beard. Here's an example.
+ Show Spoiler [The Reason I Will Never Buy A Nissan] +
If you replace the man working at the gas station with a gay man acting the same way the guy in the commercial does, it's suddenly a very offensive and homophobic commercial.
I think there are people in high places who push these stigmas on the masses so that people who identify with the stigma are socially oppressed by people who are easily programmed by the media. The person in question then typically becomes depressed until s/he either conforms to society's will or finds strength within enough that s/he can withstand being around starers, pointers, and whisperers until the day the stigma is done away with.
I feel for gay people when I hear about bullshit like this. It has to stop. I have long hair and a beard but I am considering cutting all of it short when I return to college so that I do not have to put up with stupid people and their bullshit. But I am afraid that my mind will change if I do and I will stop caring about things that are important to me in favor of materialism.
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"The right to not hear anything offensive"
Well that's new. I wonder how that statement will affect universal rights.
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Wow, a thread on TL about situation in my country... Sick!  Accidently saw the thread on the right side of main screen of this site. 
I'm sorry for maybe not good english cause my native is ukrainian.
Guys, I wouldn't pay attention on that shit with that law voting in our parliament. It's like in any country when they have huge REAL problems (like now we have very shitty economy) those fuckers from powers (government, president and parliament at this moment are controlled by one big group) decide to throw attention from REAL problems by throwing some shit that causes butthurt - laws about gays, laws about languages, laws about religion etc. Those politicians dont actualy care about all these gays/languages, cause its just a distraction so news lines wont be like "Ukraine's economy is in deep shit", "Ukraine is bankrupt".
2-3 month earlier we had "language" vote. We have 1 sovereign language - ukrainian (but still 30-50% people speak russian). That vote was about facticly getting russian language regional status. And so on...
On 28th of October (ye, in 16 days ) we have parliamentary elections and politicians dont want people to hear "ukraine is bankrupt", they want them to hear about gay/language/religion because talking about REAL problems (economy, corruption) will cause huge rating falling right before elections (I actualy dont know who votes for them, but sadly to say... most people are not realy smart).
So dont be misleaded... People here are just the same as in your country (by your I mean any country you're reading from, US, England, France, Mexica etc. ). Of course most people are homophobic, but but dont showing it. And of course we dont show it and act tolerately in most cases just like in any other country. And of course people DONT realy care about that idiotic law...
Here laws are made in 2 stages in parliament (1st vote and 2nd vote). 1st vote - thats what you know and what newspapers wrote about, but the law starts working after 2nd vote. And as far as I remember 2nd vote is after elections so I think they just will "forget" about this idiotic law and wont even do the 2nd vote...
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On October 12 2012 12:19 MooMu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 09:40 autoexec wrote:
Why aren't there any straight pride parades?
Now THAT is discrimination. Are you fucking serious? Go ahead and organize a Straight Pride Parade. Who is stopping you? What I want to know is why there aren't straight kids committing suicide because they're being bullied for being straight. Why aren't straight kids being told they are going to burn in hell for being straight? Let's even out the playing field here.
None of that is the reason, either. The reason there are no straight pride parades is because there is no interest in those. It would be discrimination if you were not allowed to have one, which i am pretty sure you are. It is just that noone organizes one, and if they try, apparently not a lot of people go there. If you really want to have one, find enough likeminded people and organize one.
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EPT
