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On September 16 2012 19:59 Sickkiee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 06:10 TehPrime wrote:On September 16 2012 06:08 Fantaisie wrote:
So much hatred. I don't understand this. Considering fact that you probably don't understand the history between these two countries, you wouldn't understand the hatred between China and japan. Keyword: history. Leave it in the past. Move on.
Easy for the victimizer to say, not so easy for the victims, especially when the victimizer is taunting them with present day acts - ie nationalizing islands annexed during the process of war.
That's the problem.
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On September 16 2012 20:25 silynxer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 19:59 Oktyabr wrote:On September 16 2012 19:01 ninini wrote:On September 16 2012 17:53 Scarecrow wrote:
No, I didn't. It's complicated how the South feels about the North and it's definitely not at the level of hate/racism that's directed at the Japanese. They see NK as a wayward part of the family but still essentially Korean (some even supported them 2nd behind SK in the Olympics). Mention of the Japanese just evokes hostility.
You should read again what I said. I said nothing about the relationship between north and south korea. What I said is that North Korea hates Japan a lot more than South Korea hates Japan, and China probably does too, although before this event I probably wouldn't have said the latter. On September 16 2012 17:55 yandere991 wrote:Rofl at the notion that the governments of SK and Japan are "well behaved" towards each other. Funny how this article was in this weeks edition of The Economist. http://www.economist.com/node/21562239 By comparison, they are. South Korea was built on borrowed Japanese money and investments for crying out loud. They may not love eachother, but they definately seem capable of cooperating. On September 16 2012 18:06 Xiahou wrote:On September 16 2012 17:47 ninini wrote:On September 16 2012 15:04 RavenLoud wrote:On September 16 2012 14:52 ninini wrote:
You have to remember that it's the ppl, not the chinese government that is responsible. But it's just childish. If Japan owes any country an apology, it's Korea, both south and north. Atleast they didn't occupy the entire country of China. South Korea doesn't have a major problem with Japan, so why China? China is pretty much the last country that would have the right to complain about others. It makes you wonder how much anti-japan propaganda they must have been exposed to. It's quite sad actually.
Oh come on. Show a little humanity here. You talk as if the Chinese people deserve all the war crimes just because the CCP sucks, when they actually had to deal with both. 20 million people died in China. I'm sure that's more than the entire war casualty in the history of the US. Even if the entire country wasn't occupied because it was a freaking big country with a lot of resistance, the occupied territory is way bigger than Korea itself. It's not just about the war crimes itself, it's about the dismissive attitude of the Japanese government and their insincere apologies as well as the textbook issue. Oh, and South Korea do have some major problems with Japan, and they are also exposed to some pretty heavy anti-Japan propaganda. Plus they also have their own island debate with em! (Dokudo islands) EDIT: You know what, the more I read this post the more it sounds not just ignorant but outright sinophobic. Wouldn't have expected this from a Swede... My point is, the Chinese ppl should riot against their own government, not against Japan. What harm have Japan done to anyone since WW2? You could blame them for being passive-aggressive, which I did, and I also explained why Japan have a hard time admitting fault. Just to make things clear, the japanese conservatism is not the ppl's fault, it's a democratic problem. But what about China? What have they done since the war? A lot more. Look at how they have treated their own ppl, and how they are treating North Korean refugees. And note how they fought against freedom in Vietnam and Korea, and contributed to millions of deaths. If they were so disgusted by japanese imperialism, then why did they follow in their footsteps? Well, the chinese ppl probably don't know that they were imperialists, because of their government. Instead, they have been taught that they were the ones fighting for freedom. They don't know that the only reason why they adopted communism to begin with, was because a guy named Stalin financed the party into power. Believe me, I have no preconceived opinions about asian ppl, or any other group for that matter. I don't know why you made those claims, and if you knew me, you would know that I'm very open and trusting towards different cultures. However I'm not a big fan of the Chinese government, but that's a major difference. I know a few germans, who was born there and moved to Sweden as adults, and while reading this thread it occured to me that it had never before crossed my mind that these germans (who I consider as friends), had relatives that fought in the war for Nazi Germany, or even were part of the Nazi party. The reason why this never had crossed my mind is because I don't believe that the ppl are the same as their government, and I also don't believe that anyone should be blamed for what their ancestors did, so I never saw the connection between germans living in the 00's and the nazi party. Maybe you guys should try thinking the same way. China, Korea and Japan are all victims one way or another, but unlike China, Japan have turned their backs on destructive behaviour and is trying to do good. Yes, it's true that the government of China is going in the right direction, and the sudden influx of chinese students in the swedish university I attend pleases me a lot, but China still have a long way to go before they reach Japan's standards. Rioting about what happened 70 years ago is silly and childish, and especially so in this situation, where the Chinese government have a lot more to ask for forgiveness for. On September 16 2012 15:08 Scarecrow wrote:On September 16 2012 14:52 ninini wrote:
South Korea doesn't have a major problem with Japan, so why China? Patently untrue. South Korea hates Japan more than any other country (China probably comes in 2nd) and naturally has huge issues over what happened in WW2 and the earlier occupations/invasions. Slurs like 'monkey' are commonplace. ......Didn't you forget a country called North Korea? North Korea is the only enemy of Japan, and the "admiration" goes both ways. South Korea don't have a major problem with Japan. That's the truth. Note that I used the adjective "major". They have collaborated with them a lot through the years, and if it weren't for Japan, South Korea wouldn't be what it is today. Obviously, there are some negative tension, given their history, but you don't see riots like this happening, and the governments are well-behaved towards eachother, which you can't say about the China/North Korea-Japan relations. Wow... You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 90% of Chinese mainlanders I know are under no illusion that they are living in a free and democratic state. But they don't complain because no one can bring 1.3 billion people out of poverty by giving everyone a vote at the ballots. You might think that everyone in China subsists off a diet of government sanctioned history textbooks, but believe or not, they do have access to the Internet, and the joke of a 'internet firewall' is hardly adequate in the face of all the exploits and bypasses that Chinese netizens have created. In fact, I can safely say that any Chinese on the Internet will have a reasonable understanding of the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, and the bullshit that happened in 1989. You may think I'm going off on a tangent here, but I'm really trying to make the point that if the Chinese are not doing anything against the government, it's not for lack of knowledge or anything of that sort. It's condescending to think that we know more about some things that happened in their own country than them because we supposedly have 'freedom' to information. Why make a statement like that, when you don't even try to dispel any of my claims. If I'm really clueless, please educate me. That's the point of debates. This seems to be a really loaded subject, I guess a result of this is that a lot of ppl here are reading too much into what others are saying and skewing words. I'm guessing what you reacted on was that I possibly exaggerated how much the Chinese ppl knows about history, but if they really know as much as we do, they have even more reasons to be discontent with their own government, and although their attacks on Japan are understandable, these ppl really should direct their anger at their own government, which is a much greater offender than Japan, especially these days. Anyway, I agree completely that even if the majority wants it, China will not change dramatically overnight. Russia is still struggling, and it will not be any easier for China. Chinese citizens should be discontented and direct their anger at the Chinese government because of... the dispute over these islands? Are you even on the same page? And what makes you think that Chinese citizens have not expressed outrage over other scandals and events that involve Chinese officials? It happens all the time, just that the censors work doubly fast. When you want to talk about South Korea's relationship with Japan, you have to qualify between the government and the people. Sure, both governments are on fairly good terms with each other. But what everyone else here is pointing out is that the South Korean citizens are still mad, and rightly so, because of the events that has transpired. And what does North Korea has to do with this territorial dispute? North Korea hates everyone in that region except China because China's giving them aid. Has these islands changed that? I think you guys are misunderstanding ninini, he is talking about the historical revisionism done by the Chinese government, which really is on a whole other level than the Japanese revisionism. Of course two wrongs doesn't make a right, but if you don't want to look completely hypocritical (in the view of a third party) you should clean up your own mess (or at least show any willingness in doing so) before loudly condemming others for the same. This becomes even more true if what Xiahou wrote is true and the majority of Chinese have an accurate view on their history, which I highly doubt: it's only anecdotal but I have talked to numerous Chinese exchange students (who have access to German internet) and their knowledge and understanding of events like Tianmen or the Great Leap Forward or really any somewhat touchy issue like Falun Gong is piss poor. I met exactly one more critical guy and his opinion on his fellow Chinese is even worse than mine.Now this touches the island issue only indirectly but it's still part of the bigger picture. I have the feeling, that the Chinese government fosters nationalism (rather jingoism) more in recent years. These protests flare up regulary and are then dispersed by calls on being orderly again. The advantages of nationalism for the Party are clear but still I cannot help feeling that they play with fire and at some point might have trouble to put the genie back into the bottle.
Most Chinese exchange students are on accounting/engineering/business degrees, so I don't see why having access to German internet (please let me know if there is something uniquely different between German internet and normal internet) would or should make them some kind of expert in Sino-Jap history.
From my own experience, most Chinese exchange students here have a pretty good grasp on history. Having said that, people's understanding of history now days in general, seem pretty poor. I can swear there are people at my work who won't have some basic knowledge on major historical event.
Funny enough, events like the Great Leap Forward are used as history background to alot of T.V shows and movies in mainland China and the plot usually will always touch upon the starvation and deaths during that time.
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On September 16 2012 20:30 Orek wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 20:14 Fwmeh wrote:
What is this thread really about? Is it about the increasingly violent expressions of anti-Japanese sentiment i China, or is it about the Japanese war-crimes during ww2. Because they can actually be discussed separately. Really, what does a Chinese owner of a Japanese car have to do with unit 731? I know people will disagree (vocally) with this, but w/e.
To me, this is more about how easy it is to get one human to hate another, justified by regarding them as belonging to a group different from your own. It is even easier when these groups have historical reasons to do so (though personally I find all such reasons null and void). What I want those who are proponents of bringing the Japanese war-crimes into this discussion, what do you want to achieve by this, particularly with respect to the anti-Japanese sentiments in China/Korea? Is your argument that if Japan apologizes vigorously enough, these sentiments will disappear?
I think the blame-game ultimately is destructive for both parties. The genocides in Rwanda and former Yugoslavia are historically more recent, and carried out by people who lived much closer to each other. And you can argue the historical background of those wars all you want, but in the end, the different parts MUST find a way to live with each other afterward. Nursing old wounds does not make them heal. And I think it is all too easy to open them again. And that would be the most tragic thing, because that would really show that we learn nothing from history. This is about territorial dispute over Diaoyu/Senkaku islands that Japanese government officially bought from the owner recently. For some reason in this thread, no one cares about this direct reason of these protests, and discussion started on WWII history from the get go. I guess OP needs to mention the reason for the protests. Various history reasons exist, yet this is mostly about Diaoyu/Senkaku islands. My original post: Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 13:38 Orek wrote:Let me just limit my post to the direct reason for the recent protests: Diaoyu(Chinese name)/Senkaku(Japanese name) Islands territorial dispute (names in alphabetical order). History between China/Japan is definitely playing a big role for the protests, especially WWII period of it, but there is no doubt that this territorial dispute is the biggest reason this time and most relevant to the topic. So, maybe we should all learn it. Wikipedia Article in English: Senkaku Islands disputeMinistry of Foreign Affairs of Japan Home PageThe Basic View on the Sovereignty over the Senkaku IslandsQ&A on the Senkaku IslandsMinistry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China Home PageMost recent remark from Assistant Foreign MinisterMany comments from spokesmen here and there, but I couldn't find a single comprehensive official government statement on the islands. Any help finding it? Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Republic of China (Taiwan) Home PageAgain, can't find comprehensive statement, at least not English one. Not that whoever advertised the best should win the territorial dispute, but Japan is doing a better job on that front. Until PRC and ROC make better argument, it seems they have nothing to do with Diaoyu/Senkaku islands aside from ambition for underground maritime resources around the islands that a study found the possibility of in 1968, which prompted them to start claiming the islands in mid 1970's. Wikipedia Notes 17 ^ Lee, Seokwoo. Territorial Disputes among Japan, China and Taiwan concerning the Senkaku Islands (Boundary & Territory Briefing Vol.3 No.7). IBRU. p. 10-11. ISBN 1897643500. ""For a long time following the entry into force of the San Francisco Peace Treaty China/Taiwan raised no objection to the fact that the Senkaku Islands were included in the area placed under US administration in accordance with the provisions of Article of the treaty, and USCAP No. 27. In fact, neither China nor Taiwan had taken up the question of sovereignty over the islands until the latter half of 1970 when evidence relating to the existence of oil resources deposited in the East China Sea surfaced. All this clearly indicates that China/Taiwan had not regarded the Senkaku Islands as a part of Taiwan. Thus, for Japan, none of the alleged historical, geographical and geological arguments set forth by China/Taiwan are acceptable as valid under international law to substantiate China's territorial claim over the Senkaku Islands."" MOFA of Japan Q&A Q4 2.It is only since the 1970s that the Government of China and the Taiwanese Authorities began making their own assertions on territorial sovereignty over the Senkaku Islands, which constitute Japan's inherent territory (See reference). Until then, they had never expressed any objections, including to the fact that the Islands were included in the area over which the United States exercised the administrative rights in accordance with Article 3 of the San Francisco Peace Treaty. Any help in finding PRC/ROC official statements is appreciated.
I just want to add some few insights toward what happened during the early 1970's. China/Taiwan long considered Daiyu/Senkaku Islands part of their territory, when they heard wind that US is going to transfer the islands to Japan instead of Taiwan they immediately protested and claimed the ownership of the islands. However, 1971 is also the year that Taiwan was expelled from the UN, thus it's voice concerning many issues were not heard/ignored.
You also need to consider part of the reason why PRC/ROC didn't protest earlier was due to the immediate civil war after WWII, and PRC was under the aid and protection of US after the lost of mainland, and PRC didn't join the UN until 1971. So you see....... 1971 is a truly funky year and many stuffs are lost in this transitioning.
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On September 16 2012 21:30 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 19:59 Sickkiee wrote:On September 16 2012 06:10 TehPrime wrote:On September 16 2012 06:08 Fantaisie wrote:
So much hatred. I don't understand this. Considering fact that you probably don't understand the history between these two countries, you wouldn't understand the hatred between China and japan. Keyword: history. Leave it in the past. Move on. Easy for the victimizer to say, not so easy for the victims. That's the problem.
On this issue, I generally side with Japanese, but I couldn't agree more with this. If victimizer side starts to say "move on," then nothing constructive happens. Criticize victim side if they are dishonest or for whatever reason you think is just, but you cannot simply say "move on" to end discussion once and for all.
On September 16 2012 21:35 FindMeInKenya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 20:30 Orek wrote:On September 16 2012 20:14 Fwmeh wrote:
What is this thread really about? Is it about the increasingly violent expressions of anti-Japanese sentiment i China, or is it about the Japanese war-crimes during ww2. Because they can actually be discussed separately. Really, what does a Chinese owner of a Japanese car have to do with unit 731? I know people will disagree (vocally) with this, but w/e.
To me, this is more about how easy it is to get one human to hate another, justified by regarding them as belonging to a group different from your own. It is even easier when these groups have historical reasons to do so (though personally I find all such reasons null and void). What I want those who are proponents of bringing the Japanese war-crimes into this discussion, what do you want to achieve by this, particularly with respect to the anti-Japanese sentiments in China/Korea? Is your argument that if Japan apologizes vigorously enough, these sentiments will disappear?
I think the blame-game ultimately is destructive for both parties. The genocides in Rwanda and former Yugoslavia are historically more recent, and carried out by people who lived much closer to each other. And you can argue the historical background of those wars all you want, but in the end, the different parts MUST find a way to live with each other afterward. Nursing old wounds does not make them heal. And I think it is all too easy to open them again. And that would be the most tragic thing, because that would really show that we learn nothing from history. This is about territorial dispute over Diaoyu/Senkaku islands that Japanese government officially bought from the owner recently. For some reason in this thread, no one cares about this direct reason of these protests, and discussion started on WWII history from the get go. I guess OP needs to mention the reason for the protests. Various history reasons exist, yet this is mostly about Diaoyu/Senkaku islands. My original post: On September 16 2012 13:38 Orek wrote:Let me just limit my post to the direct reason for the recent protests: Diaoyu(Chinese name)/Senkaku(Japanese name) Islands territorial dispute (names in alphabetical order). History between China/Japan is definitely playing a big role for the protests, especially WWII period of it, but there is no doubt that this territorial dispute is the biggest reason this time and most relevant to the topic. So, maybe we should all learn it. Wikipedia Article in English: Senkaku Islands disputeMinistry of Foreign Affairs of Japan Home PageThe Basic View on the Sovereignty over the Senkaku IslandsQ&A on the Senkaku IslandsMinistry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China Home PageMost recent remark from Assistant Foreign MinisterMany comments from spokesmen here and there, but I couldn't find a single comprehensive official government statement on the islands. Any help finding it? Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Republic of China (Taiwan) Home PageAgain, can't find comprehensive statement, at least not English one. Not that whoever advertised the best should win the territorial dispute, but Japan is doing a better job on that front. Until PRC and ROC make better argument, it seems they have nothing to do with Diaoyu/Senkaku islands aside from ambition for underground maritime resources around the islands that a study found the possibility of in 1968, which prompted them to start claiming the islands in mid 1970's. Wikipedia Notes 17 ^ Lee, Seokwoo. Territorial Disputes among Japan, China and Taiwan concerning the Senkaku Islands (Boundary & Territory Briefing Vol.3 No.7). IBRU. p. 10-11. ISBN 1897643500. ""For a long time following the entry into force of the San Francisco Peace Treaty China/Taiwan raised no objection to the fact that the Senkaku Islands were included in the area placed under US administration in accordance with the provisions of Article of the treaty, and USCAP No. 27. In fact, neither China nor Taiwan had taken up the question of sovereignty over the islands until the latter half of 1970 when evidence relating to the existence of oil resources deposited in the East China Sea surfaced. All this clearly indicates that China/Taiwan had not regarded the Senkaku Islands as a part of Taiwan. Thus, for Japan, none of the alleged historical, geographical and geological arguments set forth by China/Taiwan are acceptable as valid under international law to substantiate China's territorial claim over the Senkaku Islands."" MOFA of Japan Q&A Q4 2.It is only since the 1970s that the Government of China and the Taiwanese Authorities began making their own assertions on territorial sovereignty over the Senkaku Islands, which constitute Japan's inherent territory (See reference). Until then, they had never expressed any objections, including to the fact that the Islands were included in the area over which the United States exercised the administrative rights in accordance with Article 3 of the San Francisco Peace Treaty. Any help in finding PRC/ROC official statements is appreciated. I just want to add some few insights toward what happened during the early 1970's. China/Taiwan long considered Daiyu/Senkaku Islands part of their territory, when they heard wind that US is going to transfer the islands to Japan instead of Taiwan they immediately protested and claimed the ownership of the islands. However, 1971 is also the year that Taiwan was expelled from the UN, thus it's voice concerning many issues were not heard/ignored. You also need to consider part of the reason why PRC/ROC didn't protest earlier was due to the immediate civil war after WWII, and PRC was under the aid and protection of US after the lost of mainland, and PRC didn't join the UN until 1971. So you see....... 1971 is a truly funky year and many stuffs are lost in this transitioning.
Hmm. Sounds legit enough. Another guy posted some pages ago, but maybe U.S. intentionally made it unclear so that China/Japan don't get along very well. Dokdo/Takeshima between Korea and Japan is also caused by ambiguity where not all of the island names that Japan should return were clearly named in the treaty. Well, not that I blame the U.S., but this terrestrial dispute is exactly what U.S. wanted at the time. No matter what the facts and history are, if the U.S., superpower compared to all 3 countries at the time, made it absolutely clear who these islands belong right after the war, then these countries probably would have had to accept the verdict. I don't think U.S. was so incompetent, so it was probably intentional if you ask me.
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On September 16 2012 21:30 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 19:59 Sickkiee wrote:On September 16 2012 06:10 TehPrime wrote:On September 16 2012 06:08 Fantaisie wrote:
So much hatred. I don't understand this. Considering fact that you probably don't understand the history between these two countries, you wouldn't understand the hatred between China and japan. Keyword: history. Leave it in the past. Move on. Easy for the victimizer to say, not so easy for the victims, especially when the victimizer is taunting them with present day acts - ie nationalizing islands annexed during the process of war. That's the problem.
Indeed, moving on requires reconciliation. Pretending it never happened does not facilitate this. Revising the history of events of mass rape and murder to glorious liberation is going to breed mass hatred.
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On September 16 2012 20:06 Waterflow wrote:This picture is disgusting!![[image loading]](http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/shang_kenneth/anti-japanese-protests.jpg) They really want Japan to be nuked just because their angry? What the fuck is wrong with people these days? What do these citizen care about a little fucking island anyways? It's all just patriotism. Taiwan, Tibet and Mongolia could do the same thing but with the chinese flag crossed over instead and a nuke.
They do.
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On September 16 2012 21:44 mostevil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 21:30 Azarkon wrote:On September 16 2012 19:59 Sickkiee wrote:On September 16 2012 06:10 TehPrime wrote:On September 16 2012 06:08 Fantaisie wrote:
So much hatred. I don't understand this. Considering fact that you probably don't understand the history between these two countries, you wouldn't understand the hatred between China and japan. Keyword: history. Leave it in the past. Move on. Easy for the victimizer to say, not so easy for the victims, especially when the victimizer is taunting them with present day acts - ie nationalizing islands annexed during the process of war. That's the problem. Indeed, moving on requires reconciliation. Pretending it never happened does not facilitate this. Revising the history of events of mass rape and murder to glorious liberation is going to breed mass hatred.
Yeah, but I want to say that Japan doesn't pretend it never happened.
They just don't care - which is a lot worse when you think about it.
What it says to the victims is that Japan has not changed whatsoever.
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I don't post often but this reminded me of something I have been thinking about and said recently so I decided to log in and reply.
There was a time when Nationalism was good and meant something. You know when you were proud to be who you were as a country. It didn't mean you were an elitist. Now it's just an excuse for sensationalism, discrimination, and hate crimes.
Now I understand there are a lot of people of all countries and all groups (religious, ethnicity, etc) that are not vocal, very large in number, and adequately present their group as normal peace loving human beings. I am in no way attacking them with my statements. Though I believe now that people use their affiliations as a front to back them up or take the flack for their own misguided and hate filled opinions. These can be anyone from muslim extremists like Al Qaeda, the radical Westborro Baptist Church, or in this case the nationalistic patriotism of the chinese.
Even if they have a past reason to hate, and even if they think the Japanese need to verbally admit they were wrong, this is no excuse for violence. I don't know every detail about the feud between the two countries but there is way much more to gain by forgiving and learning to live with each other. I once hated everyone that had ever did me wrong and held a grudge that would make their grandchildren die prematurely. However, I grew up and realized "Who the fuck am I to cause someone pain?" If I hate the wrong someone did me, then why the hell would I do that to someone else.
This could go on and on but it's my simple view on the matter and belief with several world situations. As humans though the biggest problem is the fact that we tend to need someone to be punished for wrong deeds and the worse a crime the more it seem to need punishing.
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On September 16 2012 20:35 Cirn9 wrote:
All this over uninhabited islands? I guess I don't really get it. China is this upset over it?
They're doing way worse but trying to force that pro-China education in HK
this is about oil, and fish. they only care about resources on those islands.
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wat
Didn't see that coming
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At least from the OPs messages, this feels a lot like 'night of broken glass' in germany back in ww2. Seriously. Anti anything mass propoganda followed by racism and rioting and senseless destruction. Wtf I thought we were past this. Have we learned nothing from the past. Ugh.
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these people are so delusional that its hilarious. kill japan? lol, like it'll ever happen.
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On September 16 2012 21:49 Mandalor28 wrote:
I don't post often but this reminded me of something I have been thinking about and said recently so I decided to log in and reply.
There was a time when Nationalism was good and meant something. You know when you were proud to be who you were as a country. It didn't mean you were an elitist. Now it's just an excuse for sensationalism, discrimination, and hate crimes.
Now I understand there are a lot of people of all countries and all groups (religious, ethnicity, etc) that are not vocal, very large in number, and adequately present their group as normal peace loving human beings. I am in no way attacking them with my statements. Though I believe now that people use their affiliations as a front to back them up or take the flack for their own misguided and hate filled opinions. These can be anyone from muslim extremists like Al Qaeda, the radical Westborro Baptist Church, or in this case the nationalistic patriotism of the chinese.
Even if they have a past reason to hate, and even if they think the Japanese need to verbally admit they were wrong, this is no excuse for violence. I don't know every detail about the feud between the two countries but there is way much more to gain by forgiving and learning to live with each other. I once hated everyone that had ever did me wrong and held a grudge that would make their grandchildren die prematurely. However, I grew up and realized "Who the fuck am I to cause someone pain?" If I hate the wrong someone did me, then why the hell would I do that to someone else.
This could go on and on but it's my simple view on the matter and belief with several world situations. As humans though the biggest problem is the fact that we tend to need someone to be punished for wrong deeds and the worse a crime the more it seem to need punishing.
You have very noble and sensible ideologies however it is naive to think peaceful reasoning and forgiveness is the answer to all world problems.
Unfortunately history has been written through violence and power comes from the barrel of the gun.
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On September 16 2012 21:59 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 20:35 Cirn9 wrote:
All this over uninhabited islands? I guess I don't really get it. China is this upset over it?
They're doing way worse but trying to force that pro-China education in HK this is about oil, and fish. they only care about resources on those islands.
that is a gross generalization....... For the Chinese at least, it's more about preserving territorial sovereignty and historical rights.
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On September 16 2012 22:12 FindMeInKenya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 21:59 Nizaris wrote:On September 16 2012 20:35 Cirn9 wrote:
All this over uninhabited islands? I guess I don't really get it. China is this upset over it?
They're doing way worse but trying to force that pro-China education in HK this is about oil, and fish. they only care about resources on those islands. that is a gross generalization....... For the Chinese at least, it's more about preserving territorial sovereignty and historical rights.
that's just their excuse. if there wasn't resources there no1 would care.
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On September 16 2012 21:49 Mandalor28 wrote:
Even if they have a past reason to hate, and even if they think the Japanese need to verbally admit they were wrong, this is no excuse for violence. I don't know every detail about the feud between the two countries but there is way much more to gain by forgiving and learning to live with each other. I once hated everyone that had ever did me wrong and held a grudge that would make their grandchildren die prematurely. However, I grew up and realized "Who the fuck am I to cause someone pain?" If I hate the wrong someone did me, then why the hell would I do that to someone else.
This could go on and on but it's my simple view on the matter and belief with several world situations. As humans though the biggest problem is the fact that we tend to need someone to be punished for wrong deeds and the worse a crime the more it seem to need punishing.
That is right, that is how the world superpower USA resolve things, through forgiving and learning.... wait a minute........ who am i kidding, no one does that, lol.
So let's say, if someone raped and murdered your entire family, you'll just pad them on the shoulder and forgive them without any ramifications on their parts? You are truly a saint.
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On September 16 2012 22:18 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 22:12 FindMeInKenya wrote:On September 16 2012 21:59 Nizaris wrote:On September 16 2012 20:35 Cirn9 wrote:
All this over uninhabited islands? I guess I don't really get it. China is this upset over it?
They're doing way worse but trying to force that pro-China education in HK this is about oil, and fish. they only care about resources on those islands. that is a gross generalization....... For the Chinese at least, it's more about preserving territorial sovereignty and historical rights. that's just their excuse. if there wasn't resources there no1 would care.
and.......... you would be wrong.
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On September 16 2012 22:18 FindMeInKenya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 21:49 Mandalor28 wrote:
Even if they have a past reason to hate, and even if they think the Japanese need to verbally admit they were wrong, this is no excuse for violence. I don't know every detail about the feud between the two countries but there is way much more to gain by forgiving and learning to live with each other. I once hated everyone that had ever did me wrong and held a grudge that would make their grandchildren die prematurely. However, I grew up and realized "Who the fuck am I to cause someone pain?" If I hate the wrong someone did me, then why the hell would I do that to someone else.
This could go on and on but it's my simple view on the matter and belief with several world situations. As humans though the biggest problem is the fact that we tend to need someone to be punished for wrong deeds and the worse a crime the more it seem to need punishing. So let's say, if someone raped and murdered your entire family, you'll just pad them on the shoulder and forgive them without any ramifications on their parts? You are truly a saint.
Most of the people on the picture don't look that old.
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On September 16 2012 22:18 FindMeInKenya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 22:18 Nizaris wrote:On September 16 2012 22:12 FindMeInKenya wrote:On September 16 2012 21:59 Nizaris wrote:On September 16 2012 20:35 Cirn9 wrote:
All this over uninhabited islands? I guess I don't really get it. China is this upset over it?
They're doing way worse but trying to force that pro-China education in HK this is about oil, and fish. they only care about resources on those islands. that is a gross generalization....... For the Chinese at least, it's more about preserving territorial sovereignty and historical rights. that's just their excuse. if there wasn't resources there no1 would care. and.......... you would be wrong.
i agree, you can tell how much they care about territorial sovereignty and historical rights by how many japanese cars they smash on the streets.
btw i hope they keep rioting IN china, do more damage to your own country. /popcorn
this kid is smarter than everyone there.
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I've been living in Changsha for one year now, one of the cities in the pictures, and I've seen several protesters on the streets. Most Japanese students here are quite nervous as they have been warned not to leave the immediacy of the Foreign Students dormitory. Most Chinese people I have talked to seem quite angry, some eager to see their own country starting a war. Talk of patriotism is on the mouth of many students. Others agree that the protesters are behaving in an inadequate manner... There is a strong anti-japanese sentiment here because it seems this city was the focus of many fights between the Japanese and Chinese armed forces.. to the point that you can see bomb shelters around the city that date sixty years back.
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![[image loading]](http://ww4.sinaimg.cn/bmiddle/77edbe77tw1dwxa7vp2gbj.jpg)
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