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Please don't use this thread as a platform to argue about religion. -semioldguy |
On September 13 2012 01:13 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 01:11 Svenny90 wrote:On September 13 2012 01:00 Souma wrote:
You don't get it. Suicide bombing to them is what drone striking is to us. We're killing civilians while trying to get terrorists, are we not? "We" are killing civilians looking for terrorists. Terrorists are killing "our" civilians looking for... what exactly? Revenge for the civilians that we've killed while looking for terrorists. It's a vicious cycle that won't end until all foreign military intervention in the middle east ends.
Oh, thank you for pointing this out. I did not think about it, so smart 
Wouldn't revenge be a deadly sins? Or does that not exist in islam?
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Salafism and takfirism is true Islam.
It's not even up to debate.
Don't bother with the Othman Qu'ran which is a mindless piece of incoherent and unchronological babble.
Read the biography of Muhammed, which is supposed to be a role model for all Muslims.
Once you will truely know who Muslims see as a hero, you will understand that nothing good can directly emerge from this doctrine.
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Damn shit got worse last time I read this on BBC...
IDK who to be mad at. The extremist or the director and producers of the terrible film considering not even South Park studios made fun of the prophet on an episode...
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I see the Islam apologists are out in full force with the same tired excuses
"But, but, Christians and Jews did all these horrible things hundreds of years ago!"
I don't care about how f'ed up various religions were hundreds of years ago, I care about the present, let's talked about which religions are the most f'ed up right now.
"But, but, <some random example of an idiot from a relgion doing something horrible>!"
Yep, all religions have violent nutcases who do stupid stuff, no denying that. However look at the frequency and severity of these actions and you can see it's majorly disproportionate.
Nobody sane thinks all Muslims are terrorists or anything like that, but there's also no denying that when looked at as a whole there are way more violent nutjobs in Islam today than there are in other religions.
I mean let's just say it's 1% of Muslims who are violent, that's a very small majority and still a VERY big problem considering how many people that represents.
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United States7488 Posts
Please don't use this thread as a platform to argue about religion
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On September 13 2012 01:22 heroyi wrote:
Damn shit got worse last time I read this on BBC...
IDK who to be mad at. The extremist or the director and producers of the terrible film considering not even South Park studios chose not to touch on this subject on an episode...
There is no reason to be mad at the producers of the film. I'm a proud defender of freedom of speech. Do I agree with the message the filmmakers were making? No. Do I think the film should be banned? Hell no.
We're not supposed to argue about religion, but I'll just point to my signature.
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On September 13 2012 01:12 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 00:58 Souma wrote:On September 12 2012 22:27 paralleluniverse wrote:
[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust. This is from one of the battles, Badr or Uhad. It's talking about a battlefield. You are allowed to kill people on a battlefield, right? [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. Referring to apostates. Has nothing to do with us. [5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, Once again, war. [8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. This is from the Battle of Badr. Once again, a battlefield. [8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do. Battle against the Meccans. Another battlefield. [9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Battle against the Meccans as well. [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. Kinda self-explanatory. [9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement. Self-explanatory. So, uh, what's wrong with killing people on a battlefield? Guess what? Muslim extremists consider themselves at war with the West. So these are the type of passages they cite in their martyrdom videos. And thus, it's Islam that enables and justifies their barbaric acts.
I could cite passages that make Christianity look just as bad but the modern church is smart enough to not read those passages. If you look hard you can just justify anything thru any religious text but that like going to far into the forest to see the trees and missing the overall point.
More importantly though I do hope this calms down and that cooler heads in the end prevail before things get even worse.
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On September 13 2012 01:00 Souma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 00:43 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:41 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:39 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:35 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:31 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:26 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:23 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:11 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:10 Silidons wrote:
[quote]
yet there are tons of people defending their actions. it's just crazy. NO ONE'S defending the murderers. We're defending the MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS who have done absolutely nothing to warrant this kind of bigotry. Nothing but to show around 15% to 30% support for these terrorists and murderers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism#Recent_PollsWhere are the condemnations from "moderates"? My argument isn't that all Muslims are guilty by association, or that being Muslim necessarily means that you're a terrorist. But there is a direct link between believe in Islam that enables and justifies murderous rampages for blasphemy in the right situations. Clearly they are highly tolerant of free speech. Read the .pdf that it cites. It says it in the first survey: "Large majorities in many of the countries polled specifically denounce the use of attacks on American civilians whether in the US or in a Muslim country." And this while we have two wars going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let's see how Americans feel when terrorists invade America. Large majority in the sense that around 70% to 85% disapprove. You think it is OK that around 15% to 30% surveyed find terrorism acceptable? Keep apologizing and making excuses on behalf of these people. Must be nice for those of us living in the comfort of our homes without foreign forces stomping on our democracy and killing our civilians on our land. Ever heard of the London bombers? Ever heard of drone strikes? The Iranian Shah? Trust me, we've done a lot worse, and if we compounded what we've done and transferred it to Western soil and targeted Western civilians, we wouldn't suicide bomb anyone - it'd be WW3. You completely missed the point. You claim that: Must be nice for those of us living in the comfort of our homes without foreign forces stomping on our democracy and killing our civilians on our land. Except the London bombers where home bred. So they did comfortably conclude in their cozy homes that it's time to kill and bomb in the name of Islam. You don't get it. Suicide bombing to them is what drone striking is to us. We're killing civilians while trying to get terrorists, are we not? And if we compound all the shit we've done to the Middle East since the Iranian revolution, you don't think Americans would be blowing up the Middle East brick by brick, civilian by civilian?
Comparing drone strikes against terrorists with blowing up subways busses and cafe's by terrorists. Laughable.
the US does not send out drones to hit a full market, or a funeral, or a bus....the terrorists do.
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On September 13 2012 00:10 Souma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 00:09 Sated wrote:On September 13 2012 00:03 WhiteDog wrote:On September 13 2012 00:00 Sated wrote:On September 12 2012 23:59 Souma wrote:On September 12 2012 23:56 Sated wrote:On September 12 2012 23:36 Souma wrote:On September 12 2012 23:29 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 12 2012 23:15 Souma wrote:On September 12 2012 23:03 paralleluniverse wrote:[quote] Anyone who imagines that terrestrial concerns account for Muslim terrorism must answer questions of the following sort: Where are the Tibetan Buddhist suicide bombers? The Tibetans have suffered an occupation far more brutal, and far more cynical, than any that Britain, the United States, or Israel have ever imposed upon the Muslim world. Where are the throngs of Tibetans ready to perpetrate suicidal atrocities against Chinese noncombatants? They do not exist. What is the difference that makes the difference? The difference lies in the specific tenets of Islam. This is not to say that Buddhism could not help inspire suicidal violence. It can, and it has (Japan, World War II). But this concedes absolutely nothing to the apologists for Islam. As a Buddhist, one has to work extremely hard to justify such barbarism. One need not work nearly so hard as a Muslim. The truth that we must finally confront is that Islam contains specific notions of martyrdom and jihad that fully explain the character of Muslim violence. Unless the world’s Muslims can find some way of expunging the metaphysics that is fast turning their religion into a cult of death, we will ultimately face the same perversely destructive behavior throughout much of the world. We are now mired in a religious war in Iraq and elsewhere. Our enemies--as witnessed by their astonishing willingness to slaughter themselves--are not principally motivated by political or economic grievances. How many more architects and electrical engineers must fly planes into buildings before we realize that the problem of Muslim extremism is not merely a matter of education? How many more middle-class British citizens must blow themselves up along with scores of noncombatants before we acknowledge that Muslim terrorism is not matter of poverty or political oppression? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-harris/bombing-our-illusions_b_8615.html I've already said that you cannot compare Buddhism to any other religion. How about we compare Muslims to the Jews, who have been engaged in systematic genocide against the Palestinians? But if you really want to bring up Buddhists, how about the Buddhists of Myanmar murdering Muslims? And if Christians were in the same situation, they would be leading crusades right about now. Yes, Muslims in general have more radical principles, but the ones going out murdering people are a tiny, tiny minority of fanatics. The quotes you've listed before were all taken out of context. You might want to actually read the Quran. It might help you understand them more. And jeeze, really? The United States directly props up a heinous monarch who slaughters his people and suddenly, it's every Muslim who gets the backlash for it. Lose-lose situation for the Muslims, ain't it? Genocide? You mean the Palestinian's myriad of attacks on the Israelis. I don't see how this proves your point, given that this is a conflict that at it's core is based on an interpretation of who the Bible says owns the land. And you realize that the violence between the Muslims and Buddhists in Myanmar was started by the Muslims who raped and murdered a Buddhist? The point is, there is a easy path from Islam to murderous atrocities. Don't take my word for it, go watch some videos of these murderers and terrorist boasting. Let them speak for themselves. You can call them tiny, tiny minorities all you want, all murder is a tiny, tiny minority, but the fact remains that this tiny, tiny minorities doesn't exist in other religions. There are gradations of evil and intolerance. When's the last time any other religion rioted and murdered because someone else made fun of their god? And multiply that by, what, 6? Gee, I wonder why the Palestinians are attacking the Israelis, must have nothing to do with this: ![[image loading]](http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg) And the Myanmar situation stems much further back than an incident in which some men attempted to rape a girl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_BurmaThe point is, these people who are committing murderous atrocities -- this tiny, tiny minority -- interpret the Quran in their own way, a way in which most every other Muslim condemns. The thing with Western nations is, we don't need to use religion as a pretense to murder people - we use Democracy. Islam is to them what Democracy is to us. I wonder who's taken more lives - Democracy or Islam? If I made the same chart for UK territory from the days of the Empire to the present day, would you also deem it acceptable for the UK to attack - for instance - India? Using that chart to justify violence is dumb. Your example is dumb. If it was Germany taking over England, it would make sense for the English to fight back, yes. Okay, now I go to bed. You're from America, so how about this: Would it be okay for Native Americans to start bombing parts of the USA? EDIT: To the people above, my example was supposed to be extreme and stupid, it highlights just how stupid the original chart is. The indiens fought back when Americans took over their lands, and who ever said they shouldn't have ? Also, Israelians took over Palestine 60 years ago, not very far, perfectly normal for them to fight. The amount of time required for people to stop being pissed off about something is completely subjective. The point remains that using that chart to justify violence (directed almost entirely at innocent civilians I might add; it's not as if this is a military conflict) is entirely ridiculous. It's SYSTEMATIC GENOCIDE. The Palestinians are losing and have lost way more civilians than the Israelis. They lost THEIR ENTIRE COUNTRY.
I laughed a bit, the Palestinians went from 300.000 to over 3 million in 50 years, worst genocide ever. The Palestinians rejected their own state, opted for a global Jihad against Israel and got smacked, own fault.
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On September 13 2012 01:11 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 01:01 Cuce wrote:On September 13 2012 00:41 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:39 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:37 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:24 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:14 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:06 Souma wrote:On September 12 2012 23:56 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 12 2012 23:36 Souma wrote:[quote] Gee, I wonder why the Palestinians are attacking the Israelis, must have nothing to do with this: And the Myanmar situation stems much further back than an incident in which some men attempted to rape a girl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_BurmaThe point is, these people who are committing murderous atrocities -- this tiny, tiny minority -- interpret the Quran in their own way, a way in which most every other Muslim condemns. The thing with Western nations is, we don't need to use religion as a pretense to murder people - we use Democracy. Islam is to them what Democracy is to us. I wonder who's taken more lives - Democracy or Islam? Stop misdirecting. What has the Israeli-Palestinian conflict got to do with the topic? Western countries did not invade Afghanistan and Iraq to murder its civilians in the name of democracy. And even before the invasion of Iraq, suicide bombings and other barbaric acts were done in the name of Islam. 9/11? While 9/11 wasn't the start of the conflict between the Western world and the Islamic world, that doesn't change the fact that it is the ideology of Islam that uniquely explains why they are murdering Americans and blowing themselves up. They even do us the favor of telling us precisely this. Nothing else is as brutal, relentless and irrational, the conflict in Myanmar doesn't even come close. Again, when's the last time another religion goes on a homicidal rampage because someone insulted their god? Does America go on homicidal rampages because someone has insulted to idea of democracy? To compare democracy to Islam is absurd. You really want to keep me awake. What do you mean what does the Palestinian-Israeli conflict have to do with the topic? You're the one who said that Muslims employ terrorism just because of their religion. I proved that was wrong. These guys have a legitimate right to hate the West. Did you forget what the U.S. has done in the Muslim world since the Cold War? Comparing Democracy to Islam is not insane. The Vietnam War? The Korean War? Instilling democracy across the globe? Then murdering democratically-elected leaders? Have we really forgotten? Or is the CIA just that good? Many peoples have been oppressed and still are oppressed, yet they do not turn to suicide bombings and murdering blasphemers. I never dismissed that there are geopolitical causes that make Muslims hate the West, but what turns that hatred into suicide bombings is Islam. As I previously quoted: Anyone who imagines that terrestrial concerns account for Muslim terrorism must answer questions of the following sort: Where are the Tibetan Buddhist suicide bombers? The Tibetans have suffered an occupation far more brutal, and far more cynical, than any that Britain, the United States, or Israel have ever imposed upon the Muslim world. Where are the throngs of Tibetans ready to perpetrate suicidal atrocities against Chinese noncombatants? They do not exist. What is the difference that makes the difference? The difference lies in the specific tenets of Islam. This is not to say that Buddhism could not help inspire suicidal violence. It can, and it has (Japan, World War II). But this concedes absolutely nothing to the apologists for Islam. As a Buddhist, one has to work extremely hard to justify such barbarism. One need not work nearly so hard as a Muslim. But this case is about blasphemy, what other religion murders for blasphemy? There's nothing taught in Islam that specifically mentions suicide bombings. That's just a tactic they came up with themselves because it's the most effective. There's nothing in Islam that says drawing Muhammad must be punished by death. It's just some crazies being crazy. At least we (apparently) agree on something: people are being oppressed. Should they be suicide bombing civilians? No. Should they be murdering people for blasphemy? No. But is the U.S. (or Israel) completely clear of blame? No. No, it is NOT just "crazies being crazy". There are passages in the Quran, that have already been quoted in this thread that calls for blasphemy to be punished with death and for infidels to be killed. These Muslims are NOT just making this shit up. It's real, it's in the Quran, and it's a threat. It's a threat that this one religion could breed so much crazies, intolerance and violence, compared to all the other religions. To disregard the seriousness of this threat is to be utterly derelict and naive. Based on what do you conclude that this is just "crazies being crazy"? The shit you posted from the Quran is TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT. Even that list of quotes you posted. READ THE QURAN. Bullshit. Prove it. Put it in context. it doesn't really matter if it is that extereme, and I think it is. I read the quran, well translations but even then. quran is just a tool, It could have been anything else. nationalism, patriotism, commercial gain, anything. It is not a healty aproach to dehuminize whole population throught their beliefs. If someome did something bad, blame them dont blame mare tools. The difference is these people believe that an almighty and all knowing being has written that book and told them to do certain things, and if they don't, they'll receive an eternity in hellfire. And what, since someone could kill someone in the future for other reasons means these cases are unimportant to investigate? (the cause of)
of course not, thats what I meant by "tool". if you have time I would like you to read on sivas massacare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sivas_massacre. It was a riot/lynching incited throught use of islam. Thing is not neccesrally islam is at fault here, inciters and expoilters are. It was never properly investigated, both inciters and security forces who didnt intervene is still at large. blaming islam at this event will not and didnt prevent any further incidents. Surely some forms of beliefs make it easier but..
You can really fight islam itself, neither on intellectual (cause it not logic its belief) nor on physical (well cause people do go bat shit insane when you try to do that and it usually back fires) level. Same happened with both chritianty and judaism, and many other earlier religions. The reason we dont have another tetonic crusade on our hands is not that humanity wage war on christianty and won. humanity did something right along the way and have people question their motives and actions even when they were dictated by their religions. Thats what we have to do with islam.
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Well, looks like the attack on the US consulate was planned by unknown armed men, who took advantage of the protests to get in close. It would appear that the murder of the ambassador was not so much a targeted assassination but an opportunistic killing.
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On September 13 2012 01:23 semioldguy wrote:
Please don't use this thread as a platform to argue about religion
Except that the overwhelming majority of non-Western nations are deeply religious and understanding their religion is mandatory to understand their culture and politics.
You can't understand Israel politics without knowing anything about the Old testament and the Talmud, as you can't understand takfirism (terrorism) without knowing anything about the life of Muhammed.
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btw do you truly beleive they killed him because he was christian? I'm pretty sure it was because he was american.
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On September 13 2012 01:27 Bahamut1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 01:00 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:43 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:41 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:39 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:35 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:31 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:26 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:23 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:11 Souma wrote:
[quote]
NO ONE'S defending the murderers. We're defending the MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS who have done absolutely nothing to warrant this kind of bigotry. Nothing but to show around 15% to 30% support for these terrorists and murderers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism#Recent_PollsWhere are the condemnations from "moderates"? My argument isn't that all Muslims are guilty by association, or that being Muslim necessarily means that you're a terrorist. But there is a direct link between believe in Islam that enables and justifies murderous rampages for blasphemy in the right situations. Clearly they are highly tolerant of free speech. Read the .pdf that it cites. It says it in the first survey: "Large majorities in many of the countries polled specifically denounce the use of attacks on American civilians whether in the US or in a Muslim country." And this while we have two wars going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let's see how Americans feel when terrorists invade America. Large majority in the sense that around 70% to 85% disapprove. You think it is OK that around 15% to 30% surveyed find terrorism acceptable? Keep apologizing and making excuses on behalf of these people. Must be nice for those of us living in the comfort of our homes without foreign forces stomping on our democracy and killing our civilians on our land. Ever heard of the London bombers? Ever heard of drone strikes? The Iranian Shah? Trust me, we've done a lot worse, and if we compounded what we've done and transferred it to Western soil and targeted Western civilians, we wouldn't suicide bomb anyone - it'd be WW3. You completely missed the point. You claim that: Must be nice for those of us living in the comfort of our homes without foreign forces stomping on our democracy and killing our civilians on our land. Except the London bombers where home bred. So they did comfortably conclude in their cozy homes that it's time to kill and bomb in the name of Islam. You don't get it. Suicide bombing to them is what drone striking is to us. We're killing civilians while trying to get terrorists, are we not? And if we compound all the shit we've done to the Middle East since the Iranian revolution, you don't think Americans would be blowing up the Middle East brick by brick, civilian by civilian? Comparing drone strikes against terrorists with blowing up subways busses and cafe's by terrorists. Laughable. the US does not send out drones to hit a full market, or a funeral, or a bus....the terrorists do.
^^this
On September 13 2012 01:25 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 01:22 heroyi wrote:
Damn shit got worse last time I read this on BBC...
IDK who to be mad at. The extremist or the director and producers of the terrible film considering not even South Park studios chose not to touch on this subject on an episode... There is no reason to be mad at the producers of the film. I'm a proud defender of freedom of speech. Do I agree with the message the filmmakers were making? No. Do I think the film should be banned? Hell no. We're not supposed to argue about religion, but I'll just point to my signature.
that is my point...i understand they were going on the freedom of speech...I don't know. I am right now just furious with all of the pointless deaths...
All I can think about is that South Park episode and how they chose not to do it when considering they were threatened with their lives if they drew a portrait of Muhammad... now the producers (of the terrible movie)try to do something that the SP studios failed to do. What happened? People are dead and a riot is storming the building.
By the way where the hell is the defense from Libya...are they not responsible for the security and well being of our embassy?
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On September 13 2012 01:23 semioldguy wrote:
Please don't use this thread as a platform to argue about religion
Then this thread has no point.
User was temp banned for this post.
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The illuminati has you brainwashed so good that even when the truth is presented to you, there is a veil between you and it.
Go ahead and call me a troll, I can certainly say I ain't one, I stopped trolling 2-3 years ago because I matured, and why would a troll argue with viable arguments and actually say the truth, as far as I know trolls say stupid and retarded stuff in order to gain a reaction from people who believe firmly in what they do.
You only think Saddam Hussein was bad because the US government told you so. Let me ask you this, where is the weapons of mass destruction? Have you seen Iraq lately? It's thousand times worse than when it was in Saddams time, now you get kidnapped for no reason in the streets of Iraq, terrorists detonate explosive cars and kill each other and the people that are getting extorted.
Guys, I'm honestly not trolling, I'm presenting some facts that we in Iraq know because we have seen with our own eyes. The truth is here you either listen to it or you don't, you don't need to call me stupid just because this truth is outside your frame of thought or as I call it "The Ignorant Brain Box"
This isn't even about Islam anymore, this is now about the unjustly invasion of Iraq by the US. I'm not even mad at you guys, because the prophet Muhammed (PBUH) use to always smile and say peace upon both young and older people, and we muslims try to replicate his life, so peace upon you, I wish you no harm because you don't believe in something I don't, after all we are all humans and the same species, you don't see dogs declaring war on one another with rockets and weapons.
To end this provoking argument I leave you with a sura (story/verse) from the Qur'An.
109:1
Say, "O disbelievers,
109:2
I do not worship what you worship.
109:3
Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
109:4
Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.
109:5
Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
109:6
For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."
You belive in what you want to believe, and I'll do the same.
Peace and blessings upon you all brethren
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57510988/ap-anti-muslim-filmmaker-in-hiding-after-protests/
Bacile said he is a real estate developer and an Israeli Jew. But Israeli officials said they had not heard of him and there was no record of him being a citizen. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not permitted to share personal information with the media.
The film claims Muhammad was a fraud. The 14-minute trailer of the movie that reportedly set off the protests, posted on the website YouTube in an original English version and another dubbed into Egyptian Arabic, shows an amateur cast performing a wooden dialogue of insults disguised as revelations about Muhammad, whose obedient followers are presented as a cadre of goons.
It depicts Muhammad as a feckless philanderer who approved of child sexual abuse, among other overtly insulting claims that have caused outrage.
Though Bacile was apologetic about the American who was killed as a result of the outrage over his film, he blamed lax embassy security and the perpetrators of the violence.
"I feel the security system (at the embassies) is no good," said Bacile. "America should do something to change it."
The hell, every embassy should have enough firepower to take down mobs?
Klein said he vowed to help Bacile make the movie but warned him that "you're going to be the next Theo van Gogh." Van Gogh was a Dutch filmmaker killed by a Muslim extremist in 2004 after making a film that was perceived as insulting to Islam.
"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen," Klein said.
This guy's actions feels really irresponsible. He knew what would happen and then he blames embassy security for the ambassador's death. That's pretty lame.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 13 2012 01:35 GT3 wrote:
The illuminati has you brainwashed so good that even when the truth is presented to you, there is a veil between you and it.
Go ahead and call me a troll, I can certainly say I ain't one, I stopped trolling 2-3 years ago because I matured, and why would a troll argue with viable arguments and actually say the truth, as far as I know trolls say stupid and retarded stuff in order to gain a reaction from people who believe firmly in what they do.
You only think Saddam Hussein was bad because the US government told you so. Let me ask you this, where is the weapons of mass destruction? Have you seen Iraq lately? It's thousand times worse than when it was in Saddams time, now you get kidnapped for no reason in the streets of Iraq, terrorists detonate explosive cars and kill each other and the people that are getting extorted.
Guys, I'm honestly not trolling, I'm presenting some facts that we in Iraq know because we have seen with our own eyes. The truth is here you either listen to it or you don't, you don't need to call me stupid just because this truth is outside your frame of thought or as I call it "The Ignorant Brain Box"
This isn't even about Islam anymore, this is now about the unjustly invasion of Iraq by the US. I'm not even mad at you guys, because the prophet Muhammed (PBUH) use to always smile and say peace upon both young and older people, and we muslims try to replicate his life, so peace upon you, I wish you no harm because you don't believe in something I don't, after all we are all humans and the same species, you don't see dogs declaring war on one another with rockets and weapons.
To end this provoking argument I leave you with a sura (story/verse) from the Qur'An.
109:1
Say, "O disbelievers,
109:2
I do not worship what you worship.
109:3
Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
109:4
Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.
109:5
Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
109:6
For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."
You belive in what you want to believe, and I'll do the same.
Peace and blessings upon you all brethren
..............seriously wtf did I read...
I read "I am not trolling" like 5 times."
Like...so much...clusterfuck
+ Show Spoiler +On September 13 2012 01:37 ddrddrddrddr wrote:http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57510988/ap-anti-muslim-filmmaker-in-hiding-after-protests/Show nested quote +Bacile said he is a real estate developer and an Israeli Jew. But Israeli officials said they had not heard of him and there was no record of him being a citizen. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not permitted to share personal information with the media. Show nested quote +The film claims Muhammad was a fraud. The 14-minute trailer of the movie that reportedly set off the protests, posted on the website YouTube in an original English version and another dubbed into Egyptian Arabic, shows an amateur cast performing a wooden dialogue of insults disguised as revelations about Muhammad, whose obedient followers are presented as a cadre of goons.
It depicts Muhammad as a feckless philanderer who approved of child sexual abuse, among other overtly insulting claims that have caused outrage. Show nested quote +Though Bacile was apologetic about the American who was killed as a result of the outrage over his film, he blamed lax embassy security and the perpetrators of the violence.
"I feel the security system (at the embassies) is no good," said Bacile. "America should do something to change it." The hell, every embassy should have enough firepower to take down mobs? This guy's actions feels really irresponsible. He knew what would happen and then he blames embassy security for the ambassador's death. That's pretty lame.
Ok..that is what i thought. That is a pretty big douche move on the producers fault.
And no. By the agreement the COUNTRY should have the firepower to take down a mob. Libya should be utilizing their military and security to defend any embassy on their soil. This is an absolute right between the nations.
On September 13 2012 01:35 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 01:23 semioldguy wrote:
Please don't use this thread as a platform to argue about religion Then this thread has no point.
I am pretty sure we are allowed to discuss religion on this forum as long as we are civil about it...however we always have the few ignorant assholes that ruin in. I mean the whole event happened BECAUSE of religion
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We should start releasing daily or weekly Muhammad videos until they can't possible protest them any more. I said yesterday more people would end up dead and the security forces would probably help it happen. Since when do they stop at 1? Turns out that is exactly what happened.
There is no saving radical Islam. Expect the same radicalism to be directed against America and Israel from Syria as soon as they are done with al-Assad, with our support.
Say what you will about the governments, they kept the radicalism from popping out too much.
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EPT
