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Please don't use this thread as a platform to argue about religion. -semioldguy |
On September 13 2012 00:47 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 00:44 RageBot wrote:On September 13 2012 00:10 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:09 Sated wrote:On September 13 2012 00:03 WhiteDog wrote:On September 13 2012 00:00 Sated wrote:On September 12 2012 23:59 Souma wrote:On September 12 2012 23:56 Sated wrote:On September 12 2012 23:36 Souma wrote:On September 12 2012 23:29 paralleluniverse wrote:
[quote]
Genocide? You mean the Palestinian's myriad of attacks on the Israelis. I don't see how this proves your point, given that this is a conflict that at it's core is based on an interpretation of who the Bible says owns the land.
And you realize that the violence between the Muslims and Buddhists in Myanmar was started by the Muslims who raped and murdered a Buddhist?
The point is, there is a easy path from Islam to murderous atrocities. Don't take my word for it, go watch some videos of these murderers and terrorist boasting. Let them speak for themselves.
You can call them tiny, tiny minorities all you want, all murder is a tiny, tiny minority, but the fact remains that this tiny, tiny minorities doesn't exist in other religions. There are gradations of evil and intolerance.
When's the last time any other religion rioted and murdered because someone else made fun of their god? And multiply that by, what, 6? Gee, I wonder why the Palestinians are attacking the Israelis, must have nothing to do with this: ![[image loading]](http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg) And the Myanmar situation stems much further back than an incident in which some men attempted to rape a girl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_BurmaThe point is, these people who are committing murderous atrocities -- this tiny, tiny minority -- interpret the Quran in their own way, a way in which most every other Muslim condemns. The thing with Western nations is, we don't need to use religion as a pretense to murder people - we use Democracy. Islam is to them what Democracy is to us. I wonder who's taken more lives - Democracy or Islam? If I made the same chart for UK territory from the days of the Empire to the present day, would you also deem it acceptable for the UK to attack - for instance - India? Using that chart to justify violence is dumb. Your example is dumb. If it was Germany taking over England, it would make sense for the English to fight back, yes. Okay, now I go to bed. You're from America, so how about this: Would it be okay for Native Americans to start bombing parts of the USA? EDIT: To the people above, my example was supposed to be extreme and stupid, it highlights just how stupid the original chart is. The indiens fought back when Americans took over their lands, and who ever said they shouldn't have ? Also, Israelians took over Palestine 60 years ago, not very far, perfectly normal for them to fight. The amount of time required for people to stop being pissed off about something is completely subjective. The point remains that using that chart to justify violence (directed almost entirely at innocent civilians I might add; it's not as if this is a military conflict) is entirely ridiculous. It's SYSTEMATIC GENOCIDE. The Palestinians are losing and have lost way more civilians than the Israelis. They lost THEIR ENTIRE COUNTRY. What was the name of the capital of Palestine? What was it's currency? Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Palestinian_territories#Population_growth_ratehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Palestinian_territories#Population_growth_rate_2For a systematic genocide, i'll say we're doing a pretty bad job. Jerusalem, and they used the Jordanian Dinar as their currency. No idea why people are arguing about Palestine in a thread about Libya, though.
Actually I have some coins at home
in hebrew they say: "Palestine - Land of Israel"
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On September 12 2012 22:27 paralleluniverse wrote:
[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.
This is from one of the battles, Badr or Uhad. It's talking about a battlefield. You are allowed to kill people on a battlefield, right?
[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
Referring to apostates. Has nothing to do with us.
[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
Once again, war.
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
This is from the Battle of Badr. Once again, a battlefield.
[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
Battle against the Meccans. Another battlefield.
[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Battle against the Meccans as well.
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
Kinda self-explanatory.
[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement.
Self-explanatory.
So, uh, what's wrong with killing people on a battlefield?
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On September 13 2012 00:51 xDaunt wrote:
Wow, I actually agree with paralleluniverse about something substantive. The end is nigh!
It doesn't take much understanding of religion or history to see that Islam is definitely different from the other major religions in terms of violent propensities.
It really annoys me when liberals shelter this completely intolerant and violent religion, this one outlier, from criticism under the imagined pretense that all religions are equally good.
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On September 13 2012 00:54 RageBot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 00:47 Voltaire wrote:On September 13 2012 00:44 RageBot wrote:On September 13 2012 00:10 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:09 Sated wrote:On September 13 2012 00:03 WhiteDog wrote:On September 13 2012 00:00 Sated wrote:On September 12 2012 23:59 Souma wrote:On September 12 2012 23:56 Sated wrote:On September 12 2012 23:36 Souma wrote:[quote] Gee, I wonder why the Palestinians are attacking the Israelis, must have nothing to do with this: And the Myanmar situation stems much further back than an incident in which some men attempted to rape a girl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_BurmaThe point is, these people who are committing murderous atrocities -- this tiny, tiny minority -- interpret the Quran in their own way, a way in which most every other Muslim condemns. The thing with Western nations is, we don't need to use religion as a pretense to murder people - we use Democracy. Islam is to them what Democracy is to us. I wonder who's taken more lives - Democracy or Islam? If I made the same chart for UK territory from the days of the Empire to the present day, would you also deem it acceptable for the UK to attack - for instance - India? Using that chart to justify violence is dumb. Your example is dumb. If it was Germany taking over England, it would make sense for the English to fight back, yes. Okay, now I go to bed. You're from America, so how about this: Would it be okay for Native Americans to start bombing parts of the USA? EDIT: To the people above, my example was supposed to be extreme and stupid, it highlights just how stupid the original chart is. The indiens fought back when Americans took over their lands, and who ever said they shouldn't have ? Also, Israelians took over Palestine 60 years ago, not very far, perfectly normal for them to fight. The amount of time required for people to stop being pissed off about something is completely subjective. The point remains that using that chart to justify violence (directed almost entirely at innocent civilians I might add; it's not as if this is a military conflict) is entirely ridiculous. It's SYSTEMATIC GENOCIDE. The Palestinians are losing and have lost way more civilians than the Israelis. They lost THEIR ENTIRE COUNTRY. What was the name of the capital of Palestine? What was it's currency? Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Palestinian_territories#Population_growth_ratehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Palestinian_territories#Population_growth_rate_2For a systematic genocide, i'll say we're doing a pretty bad job. Jerusalem, and they used the Jordanian Dinar as their currency. No idea why people are arguing about Palestine in a thread about Libya, though. ...What? As far as i'm concerend, Jerusalem was under British control before it belonged to Israel, and before that, the Ottoman empire, and before that the Mamluks, before that? The crusaders and the Saljuks? Before that even? The Caliphate, before that Byzantine, before that the Roman empire, before that Hellenists, before that Persians and Babylonians, and last, the Israelits. At no point in time was "Palestine" an independant country, nation, or whatever you'd like to call it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_periods_in_the_region_of_Palestinehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupations_of_PalestineDuring the British mandate, the currency used was the Palestine pound (IE, british currency), before that, the egyptian pound. Read and enlighten yourself 
I was about to type a response to this but I'm not going to further derail this thread by getting into a historical debate over something unrelated to the topic. And the Palestinians were part of the Ottoman empire in the same sense that the Scottish are a part of the UK today.
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guys, i just came from the future. this is the last time something like this will happen in the name of wallah. from here on out the middle east will grow and prosper into a great land of triumphant ideas and everlasting peace, so dont worry at all.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On September 13 2012 00:43 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 00:41 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:39 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:35 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:31 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:26 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:23 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:11 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:10 Silidons wrote:On September 12 2012 23:53 Brutland wrote:
so, let me get this right, a film talks about how violent and dangerous islam is, and then in defense of islam Not being violent, some islamic nuts go and kill people. man. i would hate to imagine if the type of people who were that crazy ever decided to get smart about their crazy. would be bad news yet there are tons of people defending their actions. it's just crazy. NO ONE'S defending the murderers. We're defending the MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS who have done absolutely nothing to warrant this kind of bigotry. Nothing but to show around 15% to 30% support for these terrorists and murderers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism#Recent_PollsWhere are the condemnations from "moderates"? My argument isn't that all Muslims are guilty by association, or that being Muslim necessarily means that you're a terrorist. But there is a direct link between believe in Islam that enables and justifies murderous rampages for blasphemy in the right situations. Clearly they are highly tolerant of free speech. Read the .pdf that it cites. It says it in the first survey: "Large majorities in many of the countries polled specifically denounce the use of attacks on American civilians whether in the US or in a Muslim country." And this while we have two wars going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let's see how Americans feel when terrorists invade America. Large majority in the sense that around 70% to 85% disapprove. You think it is OK that around 15% to 30% surveyed find terrorism acceptable? Keep apologizing and making excuses on behalf of these people. Must be nice for those of us living in the comfort of our homes without foreign forces stomping on our democracy and killing our civilians on our land. Ever heard of the London bombers? Ever heard of drone strikes? The Iranian Shah? Trust me, we've done a lot worse, and if we compounded what we've done and transferred it to Western soil and targeted Western civilians, we wouldn't suicide bomb anyone - it'd be WW3. You completely missed the point. You claim that: Show nested quote +Must be nice for those of us living in the comfort of our homes without foreign forces stomping on our democracy and killing our civilians on our land. Except the London bombers where home bred. So they did comfortably conclude in their cozy homes that it's time to kill and bomb in the name of Islam.
You don't get it. Suicide bombing to them is what drone striking is to us. We're killing civilians while trying to get terrorists, are we not? And if we compound all the shit we've done to the Middle East since the Iranian revolution, you don't think Americans would be blowing up the Middle East brick by brick, civilian by civilian?
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On September 13 2012 00:58 WniO wrote:
guys, i just came from the future. this is the last time something like this will happen in the name of wallah. from here on out the middle east will grow and prosper into a great land of triumphant ideas and everlasting peace, so dont worry at all.
As a Catholic myself, I think we can best achieve this by converting them all to the church of the FSM.
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On September 13 2012 00:41 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 00:39 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:37 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:24 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:14 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:06 Souma wrote:On September 12 2012 23:56 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 12 2012 23:36 Souma wrote:On September 12 2012 23:29 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 12 2012 23:15 Souma wrote:
[quote]
I've already said that you cannot compare Buddhism to any other religion. How about we compare Muslims to the Jews, who have been engaged in systematic genocide against the Palestinians? But if you really want to bring up Buddhists, how about the Buddhists of Myanmar murdering Muslims? And if Christians were in the same situation, they would be leading crusades right about now.
Yes, Muslims in general have more radical principles, but the ones going out murdering people are a tiny, tiny minority of fanatics. The quotes you've listed before were all taken out of context. You might want to actually read the Quran. It might help you understand them more.
And jeeze, really? The United States directly props up a heinous monarch who slaughters his people and suddenly, it's every Muslim who gets the backlash for it. Lose-lose situation for the Muslims, ain't it? Genocide? You mean the Palestinian's myriad of attacks on the Israelis. I don't see how this proves your point, given that this is a conflict that at it's core is based on an interpretation of who the Bible says owns the land. And you realize that the violence between the Muslims and Buddhists in Myanmar was started by the Muslims who raped and murdered a Buddhist? The point is, there is a easy path from Islam to murderous atrocities. Don't take my word for it, go watch some videos of these murderers and terrorist boasting. Let them speak for themselves. You can call them tiny, tiny minorities all you want, all murder is a tiny, tiny minority, but the fact remains that this tiny, tiny minorities doesn't exist in other religions. There are gradations of evil and intolerance. When's the last time any other religion rioted and murdered because someone else made fun of their god? And multiply that by, what, 6? Gee, I wonder why the Palestinians are attacking the Israelis, must have nothing to do with this: And the Myanmar situation stems much further back than an incident in which some men attempted to rape a girl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_BurmaThe point is, these people who are committing murderous atrocities -- this tiny, tiny minority -- interpret the Quran in their own way, a way in which most every other Muslim condemns. The thing with Western nations is, we don't need to use religion as a pretense to murder people - we use Democracy. Islam is to them what Democracy is to us. I wonder who's taken more lives - Democracy or Islam? Stop misdirecting. What has the Israeli-Palestinian conflict got to do with the topic? Western countries did not invade Afghanistan and Iraq to murder its civilians in the name of democracy. And even before the invasion of Iraq, suicide bombings and other barbaric acts were done in the name of Islam. 9/11? While 9/11 wasn't the start of the conflict between the Western world and the Islamic world, that doesn't change the fact that it is the ideology of Islam that uniquely explains why they are murdering Americans and blowing themselves up. They even do us the favor of telling us precisely this. Nothing else is as brutal, relentless and irrational, the conflict in Myanmar doesn't even come close. Again, when's the last time another religion goes on a homicidal rampage because someone insulted their god? Does America go on homicidal rampages because someone has insulted to idea of democracy? To compare democracy to Islam is absurd. You really want to keep me awake. What do you mean what does the Palestinian-Israeli conflict have to do with the topic? You're the one who said that Muslims employ terrorism just because of their religion. I proved that was wrong. These guys have a legitimate right to hate the West. Did you forget what the U.S. has done in the Muslim world since the Cold War? Comparing Democracy to Islam is not insane. The Vietnam War? The Korean War? Instilling democracy across the globe? Then murdering democratically-elected leaders? Have we really forgotten? Or is the CIA just that good? Many peoples have been oppressed and still are oppressed, yet they do not turn to suicide bombings and murdering blasphemers. I never dismissed that there are geopolitical causes that make Muslims hate the West, but what turns that hatred into suicide bombings is Islam. As I previously quoted: Anyone who imagines that terrestrial concerns account for Muslim terrorism must answer questions of the following sort: Where are the Tibetan Buddhist suicide bombers? The Tibetans have suffered an occupation far more brutal, and far more cynical, than any that Britain, the United States, or Israel have ever imposed upon the Muslim world. Where are the throngs of Tibetans ready to perpetrate suicidal atrocities against Chinese noncombatants? They do not exist. What is the difference that makes the difference? The difference lies in the specific tenets of Islam. This is not to say that Buddhism could not help inspire suicidal violence. It can, and it has (Japan, World War II). But this concedes absolutely nothing to the apologists for Islam. As a Buddhist, one has to work extremely hard to justify such barbarism. One need not work nearly so hard as a Muslim. But this case is about blasphemy, what other religion murders for blasphemy? There's nothing taught in Islam that specifically mentions suicide bombings. That's just a tactic they came up with themselves because it's the most effective. There's nothing in Islam that says drawing Muhammad must be punished by death. It's just some crazies being crazy. At least we (apparently) agree on something: people are being oppressed. Should they be suicide bombing civilians? No. Should they be murdering people for blasphemy? No. But is the U.S. (or Israel) completely clear of blame? No. No, it is NOT just "crazies being crazy". There are passages in the Quran, that have already been quoted in this thread that calls for blasphemy to be punished with death and for infidels to be killed. These Muslims are NOT just making this shit up. It's real, it's in the Quran, and it's a threat. It's a threat that this one religion could breed so much crazies, intolerance and violence, compared to all the other religions. To disregard the seriousness of this threat is to be utterly derelict and naive. Based on what do you conclude that this is just "crazies being crazy"? The shit you posted from the Quran is TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT. Even that list of quotes you posted. READ THE QURAN. Bullshit. Prove it. Put it in context.
it doesn't really matter if it is that extereme, and I think it is. I read the quran, well translations but even then. quran is just a tool, It could have been anything else. nationalism, patriotism, commercial gain, anything.
It is not a healty aproach to dehuminize whole population throught their beliefs. If someome did something bad, blame them dont blame mare tools.
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We removed Gaddafi for this? Shouldve let him bomb the shit of out that town...
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On September 13 2012 00:58 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 00:51 xDaunt wrote:
Wow, I actually agree with paralleluniverse about something substantive. The end is nigh!
It doesn't take much understanding of religion or history to see that Islam is definitely different from the other major religions in terms of violent propensities. It really annoys me when liberals shelter this completely intolerant and violent religion, this one outlier, from criticism under the imagined pretense that all religions are equally good.
It's even stupider when people try to shield the U.S. and all the shit that they've done to incite this.
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On September 13 2012 01:02 Souma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 00:58 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:51 xDaunt wrote:
Wow, I actually agree with paralleluniverse about something substantive. The end is nigh!
It doesn't take much understanding of religion or history to see that Islam is definitely different from the other major religions in terms of violent propensities. It really annoys me when liberals shelter this completely intolerant and violent religion, this one outlier, from criticism under the imagined pretense that all religions are equally good. It's even stupider when people try to shield the U.S. and all the shit that they've done to incite this.
Why is it stupider?
What makes it more stupid? And not just as stupid, or even less stupid?
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On September 13 2012 01:01 Cuce wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 00:41 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:39 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:37 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:24 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:14 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:06 Souma wrote:On September 12 2012 23:56 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 12 2012 23:36 Souma wrote:On September 12 2012 23:29 paralleluniverse wrote:
[quote]
Genocide? You mean the Palestinian's myriad of attacks on the Israelis. I don't see how this proves your point, given that this is a conflict that at it's core is based on an interpretation of who the Bible says owns the land.
And you realize that the violence between the Muslims and Buddhists in Myanmar was started by the Muslims who raped and murdered a Buddhist?
The point is, there is a easy path from Islam to murderous atrocities. Don't take my word for it, go watch some videos of these murderers and terrorist boasting. Let them speak for themselves.
You can call them tiny, tiny minorities all you want, all murder is a tiny, tiny minority, but the fact remains that this tiny, tiny minorities doesn't exist in other religions. There are gradations of evil and intolerance.
When's the last time any other religion rioted and murdered because someone else made fun of their god? And multiply that by, what, 6? Gee, I wonder why the Palestinians are attacking the Israelis, must have nothing to do with this: And the Myanmar situation stems much further back than an incident in which some men attempted to rape a girl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_BurmaThe point is, these people who are committing murderous atrocities -- this tiny, tiny minority -- interpret the Quran in their own way, a way in which most every other Muslim condemns. The thing with Western nations is, we don't need to use religion as a pretense to murder people - we use Democracy. Islam is to them what Democracy is to us. I wonder who's taken more lives - Democracy or Islam? Stop misdirecting. What has the Israeli-Palestinian conflict got to do with the topic? Western countries did not invade Afghanistan and Iraq to murder its civilians in the name of democracy. And even before the invasion of Iraq, suicide bombings and other barbaric acts were done in the name of Islam. 9/11? While 9/11 wasn't the start of the conflict between the Western world and the Islamic world, that doesn't change the fact that it is the ideology of Islam that uniquely explains why they are murdering Americans and blowing themselves up. They even do us the favor of telling us precisely this. Nothing else is as brutal, relentless and irrational, the conflict in Myanmar doesn't even come close. Again, when's the last time another religion goes on a homicidal rampage because someone insulted their god? Does America go on homicidal rampages because someone has insulted to idea of democracy? To compare democracy to Islam is absurd. You really want to keep me awake. What do you mean what does the Palestinian-Israeli conflict have to do with the topic? You're the one who said that Muslims employ terrorism just because of their religion. I proved that was wrong. These guys have a legitimate right to hate the West. Did you forget what the U.S. has done in the Muslim world since the Cold War? Comparing Democracy to Islam is not insane. The Vietnam War? The Korean War? Instilling democracy across the globe? Then murdering democratically-elected leaders? Have we really forgotten? Or is the CIA just that good? Many peoples have been oppressed and still are oppressed, yet they do not turn to suicide bombings and murdering blasphemers. I never dismissed that there are geopolitical causes that make Muslims hate the West, but what turns that hatred into suicide bombings is Islam. As I previously quoted: Anyone who imagines that terrestrial concerns account for Muslim terrorism must answer questions of the following sort: Where are the Tibetan Buddhist suicide bombers? The Tibetans have suffered an occupation far more brutal, and far more cynical, than any that Britain, the United States, or Israel have ever imposed upon the Muslim world. Where are the throngs of Tibetans ready to perpetrate suicidal atrocities against Chinese noncombatants? They do not exist. What is the difference that makes the difference? The difference lies in the specific tenets of Islam. This is not to say that Buddhism could not help inspire suicidal violence. It can, and it has (Japan, World War II). But this concedes absolutely nothing to the apologists for Islam. As a Buddhist, one has to work extremely hard to justify such barbarism. One need not work nearly so hard as a Muslim. But this case is about blasphemy, what other religion murders for blasphemy? There's nothing taught in Islam that specifically mentions suicide bombings. That's just a tactic they came up with themselves because it's the most effective. There's nothing in Islam that says drawing Muhammad must be punished by death. It's just some crazies being crazy. At least we (apparently) agree on something: people are being oppressed. Should they be suicide bombing civilians? No. Should they be murdering people for blasphemy? No. But is the U.S. (or Israel) completely clear of blame? No. No, it is NOT just "crazies being crazy". There are passages in the Quran, that have already been quoted in this thread that calls for blasphemy to be punished with death and for infidels to be killed. These Muslims are NOT just making this shit up. It's real, it's in the Quran, and it's a threat. It's a threat that this one religion could breed so much crazies, intolerance and violence, compared to all the other religions. To disregard the seriousness of this threat is to be utterly derelict and naive. Based on what do you conclude that this is just "crazies being crazy"? The shit you posted from the Quran is TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT. Even that list of quotes you posted. READ THE QURAN. Bullshit. Prove it. Put it in context. it doesn't really matter if it is that extereme, and I think it is. I read the quran, well translations but even then. quran is just a tool, It could have been anything else. nationalism, patriotism, commercial gain, anything. It is not a healty aproach to dehuminize whole population throught their beliefs. If someome did something bad, blame them dont blame mare tools.
The difference is these people believe that an almighty and all knowing being has written that book and told them to do certain things, and if they don't, they'll receive an eternity in hellfire. And what, since someone could kill someone in the future for other reasons means these cases are unimportant to investigate? (the cause of)
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United States42656 Posts
RIP Sean Smith
If you guys would stop arguing about Israel and Islam and US foreign policy for a minute you'd realise that a man who impacted on the lives of tens of thousands of online gamers died. A whole community is in mourning. Save your stupid arguments for another day, many posters on tl knew the deceased personally, show some damn respect.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On September 13 2012 01:10 RageBot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 01:02 Souma wrote:On September 13 2012 00:58 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 13 2012 00:51 xDaunt wrote:
Wow, I actually agree with paralleluniverse about something substantive. The end is nigh!
It doesn't take much understanding of religion or history to see that Islam is definitely different from the other major religions in terms of violent propensities. It really annoys me when liberals shelter this completely intolerant and violent religion, this one outlier, from criticism under the imagined pretense that all religions are equally good. It's even stupider when people try to shield the U.S. and all the shit that they've done to incite this. Why is it stupid er? What makes it more stupid? And not just as stupid, or even less stupid?
You have a point. Maybe it's just as stupid. It's hard to measure such a thing.
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On September 13 2012 01:00 Souma wrote:
You don't get it. Suicide bombing to them is what drone striking is to us. We're killing civilians while trying to get terrorists, are we not?
"We" are killing civilians looking for terrorists. Terrorists are killing "our" civilians looking for... what exactly?
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On September 13 2012 01:11 KwarK wrote:
RIP Sean Smith
If you guys would stop arguing about Israel and Islam and US foreign policy for a minute you'd realise that a man who impacted on the lives of tens of thousands of online gamers died. A whole community is in mourning. Save your stupid arguments for another day, many posters on tl knew the deceased personally, show some damn respect.
Sorry. I'll stop here. I didn't know Sean Smith, but I heard about him from another friend.
Rest in peace.
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On September 13 2012 00:58 Souma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 22:27 paralleluniverse wrote:
[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust. This is from one of the battles, Badr or Uhad. It's talking about a battlefield. You are allowed to kill people on a battlefield, right? Show nested quote +[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. Referring to apostates. Has nothing to do with us. Show nested quote +[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, Once again, war. Show nested quote +[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. This is from the Battle of Badr. Once again, a battlefield. Show nested quote +[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do. Battle against the Meccans. Another battlefield. Show nested quote +[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Battle against the Meccans as well. Show nested quote +[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. Kinda self-explanatory. Show nested quote +[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement. Self-explanatory. So, uh, what's wrong with killing people on a battlefield?
Guess what? Muslim extremists consider themselves at war with the West. So these are the type of passages they cite in their martyrdom videos. And thus, it's Islam that enables and justifies their barbaric acts.
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On September 13 2012 01:11 Svenny90 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 01:00 Souma wrote:
You don't get it. Suicide bombing to them is what drone striking is to us. We're killing civilians while trying to get terrorists, are we not? "We" are killing civilians looking for terrorists. Terrorists are killing "our" civilians looking for... what exactly?
Revenge for the civilians that we've killed while looking for terrorists.
It's a vicious cycle that won't end until all foreign military intervention in the middle east ends.
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Edit: RIP to those killed.
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EPT
