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This should be put into the OP as a provides a wider perspective on the subject.
Honestly I don't foresee eSports going to a place where it'll truly go "mainstream" in the west. Maybe when I have grandkids. So for now it's pretty much going to be made up of volunteer workers and people getting paid shitty salaries. Don't like it? Quit. There are thousands of people who would eagerly do the same work for free.
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The real problem with the current conception of esports is that it is based around this idea of a massive expanding community instead of a small tight knit and very passionate group of fans. You will never get the masses to love a game as difficult and complicated as Starcraft anyway.
Esports = Casuals = LoL/WoW etc.
I'd rather not have this game be designed and patched with your average gold player in mind, nor for tournaments to cater to overly sensitive mouth breathers. I'd rather not have a caster go into great detail explaining something as obvious as the importance of creep spread because some viewers might have installed the game yesterday.
Sure, esports might mean more popularity and therefore more money and possibilites for the people who do have a passion. But look at it this way... Would you rather your favorite band start writing pop songs so that they can perform near you in a sold out venue, or would you prefer they stay true to themselves and perform in some shoddy yet intimate environment with truly passionate fans? The people who have a true passion will support something they love in spite of the lack of money, and that should be the true vision for esports.
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On August 09 2012 07:05 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 06:23 Aro wrote:On August 09 2012 05:52 Rob28 wrote:
I'll tell you why e-sports on the whole is a flawed business...
People think e-sports can be huge in North American markets, as in the case with SC in Korea, but there's one big difference between Korea and North America. The difference is culture. I've never been to Asia, but I can tell from footage and articles and such that Koreans respect the hell out of people they acknowledge are better than themselves. There is no jealousy for the successes of others, only admiration. North Americans do not have such respect. If anything, the success of others only brings disdain from contemporary North American people, who believe that they can do anything anyone can do, but better (if they put the effort into it). It's an ego thing; places where e-sports will flourish are places where egos are not over-inflated.
Video games are a way of life here. Everyone plays them, all the time. And there are a lot of people who play them with dreams of turning it into some kind of profit-generating lifestyle. It's why articles on "how to be a part of e-sports" always start out with "don't expect money". But North Americans by and large believe that if they play enough games, they can be good enough to earn money like some people (there are people in the world making money off playing videogames, right?). The problem lies with the idea of watching other people succeed in the areas that most people think they too can be good at: gaming "pros" are seen as competitors... seen as succeeding in the field you have not yet (but probably someday could, if you buy into the delusion). Whereas a kid in korea could look at Boxer and go "Wow, he's accomplished so much! I am impressed!", a kid in North America says "Pfft, I could do that too, if I had time to waste practicing videogames 24/7". As a result, the North American kid doesn't want to watch other people succeed at video games. They aren't impressed by accomplishments in the same way that people living in a respectful society are.
It's the same effect in a whole lot of different fields where talent can arise where people believe they too can succeed. It's why everyone hates instant celebrities who do nothing (like Kardashians, Jersey Shore, etc.) or ones who perform badly but still generate attention and fame (Rebecca Black, Justin Bieber, Torres, etc.). People look at them and go "I could do that shit! That should be ME making all that money and nailing those supermodels!". So they get pissed, and they don't buy into what the person is doing, because they feel that anyone could do it (even if they can't). From what I can tell, Korean culture isn't like that, on the whole, and it's why e-sports can kinda work there. but not so here. Success that is not your in north America is not worth celebrating in the eyes of North Americans. We think our bosses are idiots, that douchebags don't deserve the hot women they attract, and that people in sportscars are overcompensating. it's why guys like incontrol get made fun of for being overweight, rather than for performing badly. We are, in the most basic sense of the word, "petty" people when we see success in others. And it's why we don't flock to the screen in mass numbers enough to sustain a successful e-sports industry.
Basically, the only people who would care about e-sports are ones who play the game so much that they believe they can go pro too. And so they don't want to watch someone achieve their dreams... they hate that guy. They think they could do a better job. It's why for every Day9 out there, there are a hundred more small time Youtube commentators who think they can be better... it's why random people hated so much on KellyMilkies... it's why as many people hate Idra as love him... Excellent explanation of how I'm entitled, disrespectful, and petty. Thanks for taking your time to explain that to me. If this is your justification for why esports will never 'make it' in NA, how do you explain the success of similar industries? (For example, poker?) How is Poker a similar industry to SC2? I've seen quite a few people make this claim with no actual justification. Even if they were so similar, Poker's success would have no baring on SC2 and E-sport's success. Professional Poker has been around for decades and it took it quite some time to get as big as it is now. As for the article, I think it justified why he isn't living comfortably off his journalism skills. And if money needs to be reallocated to certain group in E-sports, it's the players and teams, not the writers.
Elaborated on that in my previous post:
Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was referring specifically to TV contracts for poker, where there is a market for people watching broadcasts of something that they think they can do better.
Do you disagree?
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On August 09 2012 08:11 overt wrote:This should be put into the OP as a provides a wider perspective on the subject. Honestly I don't foresee eSports going to a place where it'll truly go "mainstream" in the west. Maybe when I have grandkids. So for now it's pretty much going to be made up of volunteer workers and people getting paid shitty salaries. Don't like it? Quit. There are thousands of people who would eagerly do the same work for free.
Read the response; seconded. A dose of realism for anyone still feeling a sense of entitlement when most websites aren't pulling in nearly enough cash to hire a legit full time editor.
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On August 09 2012 07:52 Rob28 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 06:46 Blennd wrote:On August 09 2012 05:52 Rob28 wrote:
I've never been to Asia, but I can tell from footage and articles... You seem like you're quite the expert. I am so glad you have chosen to focus on that one sentence, rather than my point. You must be quite the erudite fellow.
Probably because your point is ludicrous to any sane person? You realize your point is also an argument that traditional sports can't be popular in North America? And yet traditional sports are massive and growing in North America. Therefore you are wrong. Pretty simple really. You're just another Korean nuthugger who knows absolutely nothing about Korean culture. Lemme guess, you also think starcraft is the "national sport" in Korea and think Flash makes 600k a year and everyone knows who he is when he walks down the street?
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I think he had the wrong expectations when going into eSport. I also don't think that means his argument is void, he's making a few valid points.
- Whoever sits on top of the food chain should not be a egoistic prick, in real life we get paid real money to work for them. It is sickening to have people reap the fruits of volunteered work. The boss has to lead the way.
- Workload on volunteers is often very high, at very low recognition. For some people it can come in handy having a nicer CV, but I doubt a danish medico- or biotech company gives a horses arse about my time writing and editing articles for the danish wc3 crowd. Naturally that was not why I decided to do it, but rather because I wanted to and also it was not very demanding due to the community size so I think of it positively due to the freedom I had to do make 1h contents or 10h of content a week, but again it was a small danish site and the demand for tournament coverage and similar content was not that big, alleviating stress on everybody running the site :-). I'd imagine that if I'd poured passion in for years instead of securing a nice job I'd feel a bit sullen at the end having achieved very little for the next steps of my life (ie. a safe job to support growing expenses with increasing family and similar).
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On August 09 2012 08:17 jdseemoreglass wrote:
The real problem with the current conception of esports is that it is based around this idea of a massive expanding community instead of a small tight knit and very passionate group of fans. You will never get the masses to love a game as difficult and complicated as Starcraft anyway.
Esports = Casuals = LoL/WoW etc.
I'd rather not have this game be designed and patched with your average gold player in mind, nor for tournaments to cater to overly sensitive mouth breathers. I'd rather not have a caster go into great detail explaining something as obvious as the importance of creep spread because some viewers might have installed the game yesterday.
Sure, esports might mean more popularity and therefore more money and possibilites for the people who do have a passion. But look at it this way... Would you rather your favorite band start writing pop songs so that they can perform near you in a sold out venue, or would you prefer they stay true to themselves and perform in some shoddy yet intimate environment with truly passionate fans? The people who have a true passion will support something they love in spite of the lack of money, and that should be the true vision for esports.
And then a year or two later you hear about your favourite band's leader found dead because of od in some shitty basement, because thats all he could afford while being so true to himself. Without money and popularity the level of play with drop severely, because no one will bother spending a lot of time on a thing that won't even provide enough resources for living, so if you really want to enjoy the high level play, you better pray that some kind of big money is going to flow in, and fast.
And about reinnn, he expected unrealistic things out of some random job for community website and got punished for it, too bad ;/
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I just likes this comment below the article.
Nero8 August 2012 03:37
Be a man, eat your pets
There are many journalists with degrees in Australia working full time for a company, basically unpaid then working a crappy part time job to pay the bills. It is not unique to esports.
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On August 09 2012 05:52 Rob28 wrote:
I'll tell you why e-sports on the whole is a flawed business...
People think e-sports can be huge in North American markets, as in the case with SC in Korea, but there's one big difference between Korea and North America. The difference is culture. I've never been to Asia, but I can tell from footage and articles and such that Koreans respect the hell out of people they acknowledge are better than themselves. There is no jealousy for the successes of others, only admiration. North Americans do not have such respect. If anything, the success of others only brings disdain from contemporary North American people, who believe that they can do anything anyone can do, but better (if they put the effort into it). It's an ego thing; places where e-sports will flourish are places where egos are not over-inflated.
Video games are a way of life here. Everyone plays them, all the time. And there are a lot of people who play them with dreams of turning it into some kind of profit-generating lifestyle. It's why articles on "how to be a part of e-sports" always start out with "don't expect money". But North Americans by and large believe that if they play enough games, they can be good enough to earn money like some people (there are people in the world making money off playing videogames, right?). The problem lies with the idea of watching other people succeed in the areas that most people think they too can be good at: gaming "pros" are seen as competitors... seen as succeeding in the field you have not yet (but probably someday could, if you buy into the delusion). Whereas a kid in korea could look at Boxer and go "Wow, he's accomplished so much! I am impressed!", a kid in North America says "Pfft, I could do that too, if I had time to waste practicing videogames 24/7". As a result, the North American kid doesn't want to watch other people succeed at video games. They aren't impressed by accomplishments in the same way that people living in a respectful society are.
It's the same effect in a whole lot of different fields where talent can arise where people believe they too can succeed. It's why everyone hates instant celebrities who do nothing (like Kardashians, Jersey Shore, etc.) or ones who perform badly but still generate attention and fame (Rebecca Black, Justin Bieber, Torres, etc.). People look at them and go "I could do that shit! That should be ME making all that money and nailing those supermodels!". So they get pissed, and they don't buy into what the person is doing, because they feel that anyone could do it (even if they can't). From what I can tell, Korean culture isn't like that, on the whole, and it's why e-sports can kinda work there. but not so here. Success that is not your in north America is not worth celebrating in the eyes of North Americans. We think our bosses are idiots, that douchebags don't deserve the hot women they attract, and that people in sportscars are overcompensating. it's why guys like incontrol get made fun of for being overweight, rather than for performing badly. We are, in the most basic sense of the word, "petty" people when we see success in others. And it's why we don't flock to the screen in mass numbers enough to sustain a successful e-sports industry.
Basically, the only people who would care about e-sports are ones who play the game so much that they believe they can go pro too. And so they don't want to watch someone achieve their dreams... they hate that guy. They think they could do a better job. It's why for every Day9 out there, there are a hundred more small time Youtube commentators who think they can be better... it's why random people hated so much on KellyMilkies... it's why as many people hate Idra as love him...
No offense but this is a lot of drivel. North American audiences hate pro gamers? That's such nonsense I don't even know where to start...
How do you explain the fact that traditional sports are the most popular sports in Korea just as they are in North America?
There are certainly cultural differences between Asia and North America, but those differences have very little to do with the relative success of e-sports in Korea.
The reason SC1 took off the way it did in Korea is because of two factors, first SC1 was released at the time when "PC Bangs" were exploding in popularity, thus leading to SC1 being very popular. How did it translate to a successful e-sports industry? Like just about every other popular media phenomenon in Korea, a cabal of media business people got together and created the industry from nothing. You may know those people as KeSPA.
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If you wanna take up eSports journalism you're gonna have to get on Slasher's level to make it full time I'm afraid. He may not churn out as many articles as some people from jD or GG.net but look at how many times some controversy / speculation blows up within the community and he comes out with some exclusive piece to shed some light on it? It's content like that that generates a following for your site. Generic reports of match results and roster changes simply won't cut it at all.
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EDIT : not bothering, disagree with article's message because it should be obvious.
On August 08 2012 00:52 bonifaceviii wrote:
TLDR: writing for esports websites doesn't pay the bills.
Does anyone think it did?
sums my feelings on the matter
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Can't help but feel the guy had unrealistic expectations going into an industry that is not yet fully developed to a point that people can make sustained livings out of it.
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Yeah, reading the comments here is enough for me to not waste my time giving his blog one more view.
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just ask stimilant, he knows all about this, he even tells me all the time, there is no money in esports, he asks me quiet a bit if there are any ways in which he can try and make money
but if money starts coming in, say if we starting getting mass mainstream attention, then the people who have been doing all this stuff for free will get paid first
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On August 09 2012 09:11 NeMeSiS3 wrote:EDIT : not bothering, disagree with article's message because it should be obvious. Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 00:52 bonifaceviii wrote:
TLDR: writing for esports websites doesn't pay the bills.
Does anyone think it did? sums my feelings on the matter
Indeed :/
I do feel a bit sorry for him, but ultimately he was misguided and had unrealistic expectations. The blog post was also rather poorly written though lol. You do get the feeling that English wasn't his first language.
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On August 09 2012 08:58 BuddhaMonk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 05:52 Rob28 wrote:
I'll tell you why e-sports on the whole is a flawed business...
People think e-sports can be huge in North American markets, as in the case with SC in Korea, but there's one big difference between Korea and North America. The difference is culture. I've never been to Asia, but I can tell from footage and articles and such that Koreans respect the hell out of people they acknowledge are better than themselves. There is no jealousy for the successes of others, only admiration. North Americans do not have such respect. If anything, the success of others only brings disdain from contemporary North American people, who believe that they can do anything anyone can do, but better (if they put the effort into it). It's an ego thing; places where e-sports will flourish are places where egos are not over-inflated.
Video games are a way of life here. Everyone plays them, all the time. And there are a lot of people who play them with dreams of turning it into some kind of profit-generating lifestyle. It's why articles on "how to be a part of e-sports" always start out with "don't expect money". But North Americans by and large believe that if they play enough games, they can be good enough to earn money like some people (there are people in the world making money off playing videogames, right?). The problem lies with the idea of watching other people succeed in the areas that most people think they too can be good at: gaming "pros" are seen as competitors... seen as succeeding in the field you have not yet (but probably someday could, if you buy into the delusion). Whereas a kid in korea could look at Boxer and go "Wow, he's accomplished so much! I am impressed!", a kid in North America says "Pfft, I could do that too, if I had time to waste practicing videogames 24/7". As a result, the North American kid doesn't want to watch other people succeed at video games. They aren't impressed by accomplishments in the same way that people living in a respectful society are.
It's the same effect in a whole lot of different fields where talent can arise where people believe they too can succeed. It's why everyone hates instant celebrities who do nothing (like Kardashians, Jersey Shore, etc.) or ones who perform badly but still generate attention and fame (Rebecca Black, Justin Bieber, Torres, etc.). People look at them and go "I could do that shit! That should be ME making all that money and nailing those supermodels!". So they get pissed, and they don't buy into what the person is doing, because they feel that anyone could do it (even if they can't). From what I can tell, Korean culture isn't like that, on the whole, and it's why e-sports can kinda work there. but not so here. Success that is not your in north America is not worth celebrating in the eyes of North Americans. We think our bosses are idiots, that douchebags don't deserve the hot women they attract, and that people in sportscars are overcompensating. it's why guys like incontrol get made fun of for being overweight, rather than for performing badly. We are, in the most basic sense of the word, "petty" people when we see success in others. And it's why we don't flock to the screen in mass numbers enough to sustain a successful e-sports industry.
Basically, the only people who would care about e-sports are ones who play the game so much that they believe they can go pro too. And so they don't want to watch someone achieve their dreams... they hate that guy. They think they could do a better job. It's why for every Day9 out there, there are a hundred more small time Youtube commentators who think they can be better... it's why random people hated so much on KellyMilkies... it's why as many people hate Idra as love him... No offense but this is a lot of drivel. North American audiences hate pro gamers? That's such nonsense I don't even know where to start... How do you explain the fact that traditional sports are the most popular sports in Korea just as they are in North America? There are certainly cultural differences between Asia and North America, but those differences have very little to do with the relative success of e-sports in Korea. The reason SC1 took off the way it did in Korea is because of two factors, first SC1 was released at the time when "PC Bangs" were exploding in popularity, thus leading to SC1 being very popular. How did it translate to a successful e-sports industry? Like just about every other popular media phenomenon in Korea, a cabal of media business people got together and created the industry from nothing. You may know those people as KeSPA.
You completely missed the point of his post. you are correct, but his point was not that we hate pro gamers, it was about the attitude of western culture compared to eastern cultures. A lot of western culture is negative in a way. We love watching people suffer, so we love fml stories and reality shows where they hurt themselves. As the original post pointed out, we have people that don't do anything and are famous, or become so famous when we dislike what they do. In korea, when someone is rich or famous, they are mostly admired because they were succesful in what they did. In America, due to our egos, we hate it when we perceive someone succeed in an area we find simple or insignificant.
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 09 2012 05:52 Rob28 wrote:
I'll tell you why e-sports on the whole is a flawed business...
People think e-sports can be huge in North American markets, as in the case with SC in Korea, but there's one big difference between Korea and North America. The difference is culture. I've never been to Asia, but I can tell from footage and articles and such that Koreans respect the hell out of people they acknowledge are better than themselves. There is no jealousy for the successes of others, only admiration. North Americans do not have such respect. If anything, the success of others only brings disdain from contemporary North American people, who believe that they can do anything anyone can do, but better (if they put the effort into it). It's an ego thing; places where e-sports will flourish are places where egos are not over-inflated.
Video games are a way of life here. Everyone plays them, all the time. And there are a lot of people who play them with dreams of turning it into some kind of profit-generating lifestyle. It's why articles on "how to be a part of e-sports" always start out with "don't expect money". But North Americans by and large believe that if they play enough games, they can be good enough to earn money like some people (there are people in the world making money off playing videogames, right?). The problem lies with the idea of watching other people succeed in the areas that most people think they too can be good at: gaming "pros" are seen as competitors... seen as succeeding in the field you have not yet (but probably someday could, if you buy into the delusion). Whereas a kid in korea could look at Boxer and go "Wow, he's accomplished so much! I am impressed!", a kid in North America says "Pfft, I could do that too, if I had time to waste practicing videogames 24/7". As a result, the North American kid doesn't want to watch other people succeed at video games. They aren't impressed by accomplishments in the same way that people living in a respectful society are.
It's the same effect in a whole lot of different fields where talent can arise where people believe they too can succeed. It's why everyone hates instant celebrities who do nothing (like Kardashians, Jersey Shore, etc.) or ones who perform badly but still generate attention and fame (Rebecca Black, Justin Bieber, Torres, etc.). People look at them and go "I could do that shit! That should be ME making all that money and nailing those supermodels!". So they get pissed, and they don't buy into what the person is doing, because they feel that anyone could do it (even if they can't). From what I can tell, Korean culture isn't like that, on the whole, and it's why e-sports can kinda work there. but not so here. Success that is not your in north America is not worth celebrating in the eyes of North Americans. We think our bosses are idiots, that douchebags don't deserve the hot women they attract, and that people in sportscars are overcompensating. it's why guys like incontrol get made fun of for being overweight, rather than for performing badly. We are, in the most basic sense of the word, "petty" people when we see success in others. And it's why we don't flock to the screen in mass numbers enough to sustain a successful e-sports industry.
Basically, the only people who would care about e-sports are ones who play the game so much that they believe they can go pro too. And so they don't want to watch someone achieve their dreams... they hate that guy. They think they could do a better job. It's why for every Day9 out there, there are a hundred more small time Youtube commentators who think they can be better... it's why random people hated so much on KellyMilkies... it's why as many people hate Idra as love him...
I'm not quite sure where your perspective of Korea regarding respect and admiration comes from, quite frankly.
The situation in Korea in that regard is no different from that of any other country: there are people who respect and admire those who are at the top and those who are jealous and believe that they can do a better job than that of those who are, once again, at the top.
All your arguments here is based on the fact that you think that all of the Koreans are respectful people who will never think things such as "I could do that shit! That should be ME making all that money and nailing those supermodels!"
You have a very unrealistic perspective of Asian culture and quite frankly, it can be argued that Koreans and Asians are the ones who are competitive and will do anything to reach the top. Our competition rate is abnormally high and we are willing to do 'almost' anything to try and get to that stable job. Why? Because in places like Korea and Japan, where a large population is in a small land, it's the only way to live a comfortable life. China? Well there's a billion people. Sure their lands are big, but come on...billion people.
In response to your belief that random people hate on KellyMilkies, Idra, and the Day9's, that's more a point of anonymity that gives people the ability to say those kind of things. If your counterargument is that 'but Koreans don't do that!', it's because we give our social security number to post on forums. So if we say anything 'bad' or threatening, then we get sued. Go to a youtube channel where Koreans comment and please note that there is a TON of trashtalking, just like any other 'bad Americans' would post.
TL;DR: In EVERY country there are those who are respectful of those who are at an established positions and there are those who are arrogant and self-entitled. Please do not simply say: all Koreans are good, all Americans are bad.
I'm Korean and while I'm thankful that you have such a high opinion of us, it's still laughable that you believe this to be the norm.
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On August 09 2012 10:31 omgimonfire15 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 08:58 BuddhaMonk wrote:On August 09 2012 05:52 Rob28 wrote:
I'll tell you why e-sports on the whole is a flawed business...
People think e-sports can be huge in North American markets, as in the case with SC in Korea, but there's one big difference between Korea and North America. The difference is culture. I've never been to Asia, but I can tell from footage and articles and such that Koreans respect the hell out of people they acknowledge are better than themselves. There is no jealousy for the successes of others, only admiration. North Americans do not have such respect. If anything, the success of others only brings disdain from contemporary North American people, who believe that they can do anything anyone can do, but better (if they put the effort into it). It's an ego thing; places where e-sports will flourish are places where egos are not over-inflated.
Video games are a way of life here. Everyone plays them, all the time. And there are a lot of people who play them with dreams of turning it into some kind of profit-generating lifestyle. It's why articles on "how to be a part of e-sports" always start out with "don't expect money". But North Americans by and large believe that if they play enough games, they can be good enough to earn money like some people (there are people in the world making money off playing videogames, right?). The problem lies with the idea of watching other people succeed in the areas that most people think they too can be good at: gaming "pros" are seen as competitors... seen as succeeding in the field you have not yet (but probably someday could, if you buy into the delusion). Whereas a kid in korea could look at Boxer and go "Wow, he's accomplished so much! I am impressed!", a kid in North America says "Pfft, I could do that too, if I had time to waste practicing videogames 24/7". As a result, the North American kid doesn't want to watch other people succeed at video games. They aren't impressed by accomplishments in the same way that people living in a respectful society are.
It's the same effect in a whole lot of different fields where talent can arise where people believe they too can succeed. It's why everyone hates instant celebrities who do nothing (like Kardashians, Jersey Shore, etc.) or ones who perform badly but still generate attention and fame (Rebecca Black, Justin Bieber, Torres, etc.). People look at them and go "I could do that shit! That should be ME making all that money and nailing those supermodels!". So they get pissed, and they don't buy into what the person is doing, because they feel that anyone could do it (even if they can't). From what I can tell, Korean culture isn't like that, on the whole, and it's why e-sports can kinda work there. but not so here. Success that is not your in north America is not worth celebrating in the eyes of North Americans. We think our bosses are idiots, that douchebags don't deserve the hot women they attract, and that people in sportscars are overcompensating. it's why guys like incontrol get made fun of for being overweight, rather than for performing badly. We are, in the most basic sense of the word, "petty" people when we see success in others. And it's why we don't flock to the screen in mass numbers enough to sustain a successful e-sports industry.
Basically, the only people who would care about e-sports are ones who play the game so much that they believe they can go pro too. And so they don't want to watch someone achieve their dreams... they hate that guy. They think they could do a better job. It's why for every Day9 out there, there are a hundred more small time Youtube commentators who think they can be better... it's why random people hated so much on KellyMilkies... it's why as many people hate Idra as love him... No offense but this is a lot of drivel. North American audiences hate pro gamers? That's such nonsense I don't even know where to start... How do you explain the fact that traditional sports are the most popular sports in Korea just as they are in North America? There are certainly cultural differences between Asia and North America, but those differences have very little to do with the relative success of e-sports in Korea. The reason SC1 took off the way it did in Korea is because of two factors, first SC1 was released at the time when "PC Bangs" were exploding in popularity, thus leading to SC1 being very popular. How did it translate to a successful e-sports industry? Like just about every other popular media phenomenon in Korea, a cabal of media business people got together and created the industry from nothing. You may know those people as KeSPA. You completely missed the point of his post. you are correct, but his point was not that we hate pro gamers, it was about the attitude of western culture compared to eastern cultures. A lot of western culture is negative in a way. We love watching people suffer, so we love fml stories and reality shows where they hurt themselves. As the original post pointed out, we have people that don't do anything and are famous, or become so famous when we dislike what they do. In korea, when someone is rich or famous, they are mostly admired because they were succesful in what they did. In America, due to our egos, we hate it when we perceive someone succeed in an area we find simple or insignificant.
Hi. We love it reality TV shows and when people hurt themselves as well. I feel like you're looking at the OLD eastern cultures where respect was important. Most of Asia HAS been westernized and thus, 'Asians' are no longer the "everyone respects everyone!' kind of sentiment. Once again, my point is also very general.
But to talk about the original post, I believe that, while it is sad that the 'journalist' never was paid the salary that he 'may' have deserved, it's also understandable that e-sports is NOT at the stage where full salaries can be paid to everyone who goes well beyond the expectation. I hope that the 'journalist' does well in the future and that he'll find a job where he can do what he loves and can get the salary he deserves.
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On August 09 2012 08:35 Blennd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 07:52 Rob28 wrote:On August 09 2012 06:46 Blennd wrote:On August 09 2012 05:52 Rob28 wrote:
I've never been to Asia, but I can tell from footage and articles... You seem like you're quite the expert. I am so glad you have chosen to focus on that one sentence, rather than my point. You must be quite the erudite fellow. Probably because your point is ludicrous to any sane person? You realize your point is also an argument that traditional sports can't be popular in North America? And yet traditional sports are massive and growing in North America. Therefore you are wrong. Pretty simple really. You're just another Korean nuthugger who knows absolutely nothing about Korean culture. Lemme guess, you also think starcraft is the "national sport" in Korea and think Flash makes 600k a year and everyone knows who he is when he walks down the street?
Fuck, I addressed the whole traditional sports thing in a subsequent post. Learn to read before you respond bro. Same goes for you, BuddhaMonk.
I'll even duplicate it, because apparently people these days can't be bothered to even read things before arguing about them:
I've filled my previous post with enough examples, but let's draw some contrast, shall we?
E-sports vs. normal physical sports. One is more popular than the other. Why? Because the average person knows they cannot do what professional athletes do, or that they could do it, but it requires a HUGE investment of physical effort. E-sport athletes, on the other hand, do the things we all do daily; sit and play videogames. In the minds of most, their level of accomplishment is not as out of reach, and is therefore less impressive and more attainable. Therefore, we do not share in the enjoyment of viewing people do what we believe ourselves to be able to do better with marginal effort required, and we envy/loathe those individuals who have succeeded in those types of areas. At the very least, a lot of these feelings are subconscious, but they are almost a prevalent psychological fact of Western culture.
I'm not saying it's the only reason for the lack of e-sport mainstream success, but I am saying that it is an idea that ought to be given consideration.
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On August 09 2012 10:38 UTL_Unlimited wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 10:31 omgimonfire15 wrote:
You completely missed the point of his post. you are correct, but his point was not that we hate pro gamers, it was about the attitude of western culture compared to eastern cultures. A lot of western culture is negative in a way. We love watching people suffer, so we love fml stories and reality shows where they hurt themselves. As the original post pointed out, we have people that don't do anything and are famous, or become so famous when we dislike what they do. In korea, when someone is rich or famous, they are mostly admired because they were succesful in what they did. In America, due to our egos, we hate it when we perceive someone succeed in an area we find simple or insignificant. Hi. We love it reality TV shows and when people hurt themselves as well. I feel like you're looking at the OLD eastern cultures where respect was important. Most of Asia HAS been westernized and thus, 'Asians' are no longer the "everyone respects everyone!' kind of sentiment. Once again, my point is also very general. But to talk about the original post, I believe that, while it is sad that the 'journalist' never was paid the salary that he 'may' have deserved, it's also understandable that e-sports is NOT at the stage where full salaries can be paid to everyone who goes well beyond the expectation. I hope that the 'journalist' does well in the future and that he'll find a job where he can do what he loves and can get the salary he deserves.
In even classical Asian culture, there are plenty of examples about people who looked on those more fortunate with envy and greed. Hell, just take a look at some of the famous historical literature from Korea, China or Japan.
This idea that Asians and Asian culture is still (and was at one point) bound to the rigorous mores of heroic blood shed, samurai or other similarly white washed representations in media need to stop. Seriously, it needs to stop.
Asians are people. Koreans are people. Fundamentally, people react in similar manners to success and failure.
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EPT
