Is Algebra Necessary? - Page 2

FeUerFlieGe

United States1193 Posts

July 29 2012 06:18 GMT

#21

Algebra is easy! Although I say that now, in middle school I had to take the pre-algebra course for a second year, but thats because I wasn't paying attention in class and was busy not doing my homework at home so I could play video games.

Now the article does have a good argument, but I feel like if I wasn't forced to take math in Highschool, I would have never learned to love it.

I also feel like many of the students at my high school who are retaking algebra over and over again simply don't focus on school itself. They don't just fail at math, but they don't do their english homework and don't study for history. Don't you think the problem is bigger than, "Teach less math"?

yurta

Canada91 Posts

July 29 2012 06:18 GMT

#22

Talking about reverting classes to electives or not teaching a specific class in high school seems a tad over reactive. Some portions of math are not important post high school cause you just won't need them, but I don't think failing in high school is a logical reason to change teaching standards. Algebra is no where near as hard as math gets when it comes to Trig and beyond and when I was in school I started learning Algebra in grade 6 so I spent 7 years doing it from grade 6 to graduating high school. I don't know how different teaching standards are in the US ( from where I live in Canada ) or when you start learning about different elements of different subjects but we pretty much touch base on everything in math except for trig before grade 12 where math becomes an elective you can choose to skip.

Dzemoo

48 Posts

July 29 2012 06:18 GMT

#23

I'm sorry, but as a Texan who went to a top 10 high school in Texas (that's not saying too much though :p) I would have to say that we aren't being taught ENOUGH algebra.

zalz

Netherlands3704 Posts

July 29 2012 06:19 GMT

#24

It is true that is isn't very crucial for most, but I consider it a simple part of the collective weight that the education must have.

Everyone can learn Algebra if that is the only subject they have all year. Everyone can learn history if that is the only subject they have all year.

The point is proving that you can carry the collective weight. Other than that, not much of what you learn in high school is really that important. The difference between having a high school diploma and not having a high school diploma is non-existent when you don't pursue higher education.

Twelve12

Australia268 Posts

July 29 2012 06:20 GMT

#25

Do you want us to be able to do anything with engineering and science ever? like improve technology or build things? Do you want there to be a starcraft 3 one day?

If you answered yes to any of those, yes algebra should be taught

I realise this is talking about teaching it to everyone or not, rather than just people interested in science, but foundations in maths are important to develop early (before students make decisions about the directions of their study) so that more advanced things can be taught in later years

paralleluniverse

4065 Posts

July 29 2012 06:24 GMT

#26

On July 29 2012 15:20 Twelve12 wrote:
Do you want us to be able to do anything with engineering and science ever? like improve technology or build things? Do you want there to be a starcraft 3 one day?

If you answered yes to any of those, yes algebra should be taught

Did you read the OP or the article?

I'm not saying that we should cease all teaching of algebra. I'm saying that it shouldn't be required because hardly anyone would need to use algebra beyond school.

Being an engineer requires that you know algebra and math in general. But more importantly, it requires that you know how to code in MATLAB.

setzer

United States3284 Posts

July 29 2012 06:24 GMT

#27

America's education system is totally fucked if we have reached a point where we actually have to ask the question "is algebra necessary?" What couldn't be more necessary than boosting the mathematically capibilities of our students this generation and future generations in our increasingly complex world?

paralleluniverse

4065 Posts

July 29 2012 06:27 GMT

#28

On July 29 2012 15:24 setzer wrote:
America's education system is totally fucked if we have reached a point where we actually have to ask the question "is algebra necessary?" What couldn't be more necessary than boosting the mathematically capibilities of our students this generation and future generations in our increasingly complex world?

Did you quote that off some education policy speech?

RodrigoX

United States645 Posts

July 29 2012 06:27 GMT

#29

On July 29 2012 15:15 paralleluniverse wrote:

Show nested quote +

I use algebra daily too, but seriously, how many people do you think need to know algebra? The article cites some source which places it at 5%.

I'm not saying to stop teaching algebra and I don't think that's what the article says. In fact, the article agrees that society would collapse without math, but 5% of people need to use algebra means that 95% of people don't.

And I have no wish to force it upon them.

Well I guess my point, is that this term "need" is a useless term. To be quite honest, to survive, we literally only need the ability to forage food and find shelter. What I am saying is that regardless of this term need, people need to know algebra because if they don't they are quite legitimately stupid people. This thing that someone can know JUST biology and ONLY biology is a bad idea. People need to be educated in an array of subjects, to truly understand one singular subject.

A great analogy (maybe not even an analogy) is this. If you want to understand Sociology, you need to understand Psychology. To understand Psychology, you need to understand Biology. To understand Biology, you need to understand Chemistry. To understand Chemistry, you need to understand Physics, and to understand Physics, you need to understand Math. That's a fact, and that's why people need to learn algebra.

GGTeMpLaR

United States7226 Posts

July 29 2012 06:28 GMT

#30

Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic about the human race, but I don't think it's a problem with the subject being too hard, it's a problem with the educator / education system.

sOda~

United Kingdom441 Posts

July 29 2012 06:29 GMT

#31

yoyoyo, whats algebra?

Spiffeh

United States830 Posts

July 29 2012 06:31 GMT

#32

In defense of the strugglers, some people just can't do math. They are brilliant at other things, but numbers make their head spin.

I think math should be integral in any school curriculum, but we need to also recognize when we would be better off making the kids better at what they're already good at. If Johnny shows early adeptness and passion for the guitar, we should push him to dedicate his time to learning scales instead of some math he will learn to despise.

It's cases like these where kids get bored or frustrated and learn to hate the system.

ThePlayer33

Australia2378 Posts

July 29 2012 06:33 GMT

#33

its a problem in the US if most of middle/high school teachers are incompetent.

this is because you don't have to be academically excellent to become a middle/high school teacher.

then it rolls on.

anyone can confirm with personal experience and stories?

NekoFlandre

United States497 Posts

July 29 2012 06:33 GMT

#34

You see. I've said this for years. Algebra is useless for the MOST part in normal daily life. However, there are some appications that it is used for. Not many.

Forcing people to know quadraic equasion? how many times in life have you used it lol? None? Kay...

I know how to multiply, divide, subtract and add. Hey that works well for being a buisness manager. Then again im not in a mathmatics, science, field where...it would be useful?

Most like the general populace.......

Itsmedudeman

United States19229 Posts

July 29 2012 06:36 GMT

#35

How the hell do you know what you're gonna be doing when you're 13 years old? I know a lot of people who have changed their minds and became interested in the sciences, math, etc. There's a lot of people who will go into a job not needing to learn ANYTHING past the 6th grade. If you're in manual labor what exactly do you need to know? Fact is, you need building blocks in your life once you finally do have an idea, and if not, then how is being smarter and just knowing what a lot of people believe a person should know a bad thing. History, chemistry, physics, writing, math, biology? Should we teach none of those things?

TheRabidDeer

United States3806 Posts

July 29 2012 06:37 GMT

#36

I saw this on my facebook recently:
[image loading]

This is indicative of how bad the education system is for americans (in terms of math). Personally, I never had too big of a problem with math... and I actually love algebra because of how simple it is and how much application I can get out of it on a day to day basis. I can use algebra for games (especially RPG's), figuring out tips, and all kinds of other stuff.

I am curious though, what is it with algebra that people dont get? It is a simple set of rules that you follow, and thats it. You can even guess and check a lot of things if you have the time.

EDIT: BTW, the current numbers for that poll:
40: 72k
0: 1.9 million
20: 420k
15: 782k

shindigs

United States4795 Posts

July 29 2012 06:39 GMT

#37

partially disagree. math is useful, but i feel you really need to hit home with relevancy. i remember in middle school where we had to do partial fraction decomposition (i forget what that even was) and the exercises were long and tedious, definitely didn't make me a fan of mathematics. i think there is definitely a limit to having your everyday middle schooler simplify the most intricate complex polynomials.

i really enjoyed calculus since my teacher kept giving us real world applications and really knew how to tie all the concepts together.

r.Evo

Germany14080 Posts

July 29 2012 06:39 GMT

#38

"You're not here because you'll need whatever you're going to learn for your entire life. You're mostly here to learn HOW to learn certain things - if you get some cool stuff that's helpful down the road then that's a bonus."

Quote my math teacher from 11th grade.

If there is a 40% failure rate in a single subject and on top of that other countries manage to teach more about it in less time then it's not the subjects fault.

Edit: In my school (standard Gymnasium) we had about 5% of people having to repeat classes and that's not exactly a low rate for Bavaria specifically. I also genuinely doubt that the algebra we learned was considerably harder than at the schools that article refers to.

Sub40APM

6336 Posts

July 29 2012 06:39 GMT

#39

The main problem with this article is that it once again highlights the deep anti-intellectualism of the United States. "We cant do this well AND its not useful in direct applications for most people so lets abolish it!"

The fact of the matter is somehow, miraculously, countries as diverse as Finland and China manage to teach algebra to their kids well enough. But no, it cant be the American education system, it has to be the subject!

BuddhaMonk

781 Posts

July 29 2012 06:41 GMT

#40

There are serious problems with education in the U.S. which is why you see so many companies trying to attract foreigners for the very skilled jobs.

I don't think this is necessarily a question about algebra specifically, but the education system does need to do a better job at being aware of the current labor markets and training the students accordingly.

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