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Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 48

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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
Daze1
Profile Joined April 2012
United States1 Post
April 20 2012 19:50 GMT
#941
There is not enough evidence to convict Zimmerman of anything he did he may be guilty, he may be innocent, but the prosecution does not have enough evidence to put him in jail. This is turning into a fight about the stand your gound law and it was never about trayvon. The media doesnt care about Trayvon it was targeted towards the stand your ground law the whole time. See the big picture, It's just another way for the government to take away more rights that you have. Remember getting pissed when sopa came up? Just because you dont own a gun doesnt mean that they're bad they can just as easily be misused as a hacker on the internet. Zimmerman shouldnt be convicted and if he does it just shows how public oppinion can change the judicial system especially when most of the public opinion is ignorant without facts.
Gollly gee
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10494 Posts
April 20 2012 20:45 GMT
#942
The court of public opinion is slowly changing in Zimmerman's favor and the race-baiters have nobody to blame but themselves. Everyone was on their side until everyone realized how badly they've tried to manipulate the facts to turn this into a race war and to crucify Zimmerman. There was so much bullshit that they tried to spread that it wasn't until weeks into these Trayvon threads that people were able to dispel most of the misconceptions. Moral of the story: Don't try to mislead people if you don't want them turning their back on you once they realize you've been misleading them.
CakeSauc3
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1437 Posts
April 20 2012 20:53 GMT
#943
On April 21 2012 04:50 Daze1 wrote:
There is not enough evidence to convict Zimmerman of anything he did he may be guilty, he may be innocent, but the prosecution does not have enough evidence to put him in jail. This is turning into a fight about the stand your gound law and it was never about trayvon. The media doesnt care about Trayvon it was targeted towards the stand your ground law the whole time. See the big picture, It's just another way for the government to take away more rights that you have. Remember getting pissed when sopa came up? Just because you dont own a gun doesnt mean that they're bad they can just as easily be misused as a hacker on the internet. Zimmerman shouldnt be convicted and if he does it just shows how public oppinion can change the judicial system especially when most of the public opinion is ignorant without facts.


I'm so glad someone else sees it this way! Well said, Daze1.

I do feel sorry for Trayvon Martin's family, I wish this incident hadn't happened in the first place, but I can't help but feel that the prosecution was making a mistake at trying to convict Zimmerman of 2nd Degree Murder. The media really messed up on this one.
liberal
Profile Joined November 2011
1116 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-20 21:17:31
April 20 2012 21:14 GMT
#944
Wow, I haven't seen that picture yet o.O

I want to thank you for doing such a great job with this thread dAPhREak. Good example of how to maintain threads on TL. You are doing a better job of covering this than much of the media, and they are getting paid to do it.

On April 21 2012 05:45 BlackJack wrote:
The court of public opinion is slowly changing in Zimmerman's favor and the race-baiters have nobody to blame but themselves. Everyone was on their side until everyone realized how badly they've tried to manipulate the facts to turn this into a race war and to crucify Zimmerman. There was so much bullshit that they tried to spread that it wasn't until weeks into these Trayvon threads that people were able to dispel most of the misconceptions. Moral of the story: Don't try to mislead people if you don't want them turning their back on you once they realize you've been misleading them.


Most of the people who get misled want to be misled. They aren't going to turn their back, they are going to stop caring about the story because once facts are out you can't make shit up, then they will move on to the next moral outrage. The media is just giving people what they want.
Freddybear
Profile Joined December 2011
United States126 Posts
April 20 2012 21:24 GMT
#945
The Prosecutor's Bad Day At Court

It's hard to pick the lowest of the low, but the darker moments for the prosecution included:

- The admission by co-lead investigator that he had not personally interviewed George Zimmerman;

- the admission that he had not requested Zimmerman's medical records from the hospital;

- the admission that the state has no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that, following the advice of the police dispatcher, he headed back to his car;

- the admission that the state has no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that Martin assaulted first.

- the admission that the investigtors have not been "given any insight" by the voice experts at the Orlando Sentinel and the FBI who attempted to identify the screams on the 911 tape...
Older than the usual n00b
valaki
Profile Joined June 2009
Hungary2476 Posts
April 20 2012 21:45 GMT
#946
My point of view (totally based just on my opinion, from what I've seen / read / heard so far) : So this semi-thug young adult (sorry, but he's not the clean A student the media portrayed him to be) was at a neighborhood when this other guy (with some shady things in his past too) who's duty was to watch the said neighborhood approached him because it was night time and this guy wore a hoodie, and not to mention, he was over 6ft tall, so people need to cut this "child" crap. To be perfectly honest, he would've been suspicious to me too, and not because he was black. But it seem's like Zimmerman was overly cautious and wasn't only followed the guy, but called the police too.
Okay from here, I've read several different scenarios, but in the end Zimmerman got to the ground and got injured moderately, some say, because Trayvon picked a fight with him because he was following him. He (Z) was clearly losing because in the recordings he called for help.
Now the question is, could he have felt, that his life is in danger? Maybe. Maybe he overreacted badly. That's the court's job to decide.

In my opinion even if he goes to jail, it shouldn't be more than 1-2 years. But the whole case has nothing to do with race, but some people would actually kill each other because of this...scary.
ggaemo fan
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-20 21:58:28
April 20 2012 21:56 GMT
#947
On April 21 2012 06:24 Freddybear wrote:
The Prosecutor's Bad Day At Court

It's hard to pick the lowest of the low, but the darker moments for the prosecution included:

- The admission by co-lead investigator that he had not personally interviewed George Zimmerman;

- the admission that he had not requested Zimmerman's medical records from the hospital;

- the admission that the state has no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that, following the advice of the police dispatcher, he headed back to his car;

- the admission that the state has no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that Martin assaulted first.

- the admission that the investigtors have not been "given any insight" by the voice experts at the Orlando Sentinel and the FBI who attempted to identify the screams on the 911 tape...

interesting sources in that link.

found the transcript of the bail proceeding.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.01.html
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

edit: shit, freddybear, now im never going to get my work done this afternoon. cross-examinations of the officers.....
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10494 Posts
April 20 2012 22:55 GMT
#948
On April 21 2012 06:14 liberal wrote:
Wow, I haven't seen that picture yet o.O

I want to thank you for doing such a great job with this thread dAPhREak. Good example of how to maintain threads on TL. You are doing a better job of covering this than much of the media, and they are getting paid to do it.


The problem is they are paid to do a bad job since their job is to present the most entertaining/compelling story instead of the most true story
Blackhawk13
Profile Joined April 2010
United States442 Posts
April 20 2012 23:16 GMT
#949
Quick thanks to the OP for keeping this thread updated =). I always come here to see the latest on this issue.
RJGooner
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2060 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-20 23:30:38
April 20 2012 23:21 GMT
#950
On April 21 2012 06:45 valaki wrote:
My point of view (totally based just on my opinion, from what I've seen / read / heard so far) : So this semi-thug young adult (sorry, but he's not the clean A student the media portrayed him to be) was at a neighborhood when this other guy (with some shady things in his past too) who's duty was to watch the said neighborhood approached him because it was night time and this guy wore a hoodie, and not to mention, he was over 6ft tall, so people need to cut this "child" crap. To be perfectly honest, he would've been suspicious to me too, and not because he was black. But it seem's like Zimmerman was overly cautious and wasn't only followed the guy, but called the police too.
Okay from here, I've read several different scenarios, but in the end Zimmerman got to the ground and got injured moderately, some say, because Trayvon picked a fight with him because he was following him. He (Z) was clearly losing because in the recordings he called for help.
Now the question is, could he have felt, that his life is in danger? Maybe. Maybe he overreacted badly. That's the court's job to decide.

In my opinion even if he goes to jail, it shouldn't be more than 1-2 years. But the whole case has nothing to do with race, but some people would actually kill each other because of this...scary.


28-year neighborhood watchman follows around people armed with a gun. Gets "we don't need you to follow him" by a police dispatcher and then continues to do so. I don't know who instigated first, but all we know now is that Trayvon is dead.

The whole premise of the situation is ridiculous. Neighborhood watchmen should NOT be following people around armed with guns. I hate it when people who say "well you would have fired your gun in that situation too" no I wouldn't be following around suspicious people with a gun in the first place.
#1 Jaehoon Fan! 김재훈 화팅!
reki-
Profile Joined July 2008
Netherlands327 Posts
April 20 2012 23:23 GMT
#951
Potentially suspicious people. The guy (Trayvon) was just walking there minding his own business.
>BD
Holytornados
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1022 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-20 23:31:59
April 20 2012 23:31 GMT
#952
On April 21 2012 08:23 reki- wrote:
Potentially suspicious people. The guy (Trayvon) was just walking there minding his own business.


I still think that if there is a person wandering around late at night in a hoodie is suspicious.

I would not have pursued this person, but would have perhaps notified the police.
CLG/Liquid ~~ youtube.com/reddedgaming
RJGooner
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2060 Posts
April 20 2012 23:35 GMT
#953
On April 21 2012 08:31 Holytornados wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 08:23 reki- wrote:
Potentially suspicious people. The guy (Trayvon) was just walking there minding his own business.


I still think that if there is a person wandering around late at night in a hoodie is suspicious.

I would not have pursued this person, but would have perhaps notified the police.


Which he did, and then he was told not to follow him. And it wasn't late at night.
#1 Jaehoon Fan! 김재훈 화팅!
Zaqwe
Profile Joined March 2012
591 Posts
April 20 2012 23:42 GMT
#954
On April 21 2012 08:21 RJGooner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 06:45 valaki wrote:
My point of view (totally based just on my opinion, from what I've seen / read / heard so far) : So this semi-thug young adult (sorry, but he's not the clean A student the media portrayed him to be) was at a neighborhood when this other guy (with some shady things in his past too) who's duty was to watch the said neighborhood approached him because it was night time and this guy wore a hoodie, and not to mention, he was over 6ft tall, so people need to cut this "child" crap. To be perfectly honest, he would've been suspicious to me too, and not because he was black. But it seem's like Zimmerman was overly cautious and wasn't only followed the guy, but called the police too.
Okay from here, I've read several different scenarios, but in the end Zimmerman got to the ground and got injured moderately, some say, because Trayvon picked a fight with him because he was following him. He (Z) was clearly losing because in the recordings he called for help.
Now the question is, could he have felt, that his life is in danger? Maybe. Maybe he overreacted badly. That's the court's job to decide.

In my opinion even if he goes to jail, it shouldn't be more than 1-2 years. But the whole case has nothing to do with race, but some people would actually kill each other because of this...scary.


28-year neighborhood watchman follows around people armed with a gun. Gets "we don't need you to follow him" by a police dispatcher and then continues to do so. I don't know who instigated first, but all we know now is that Trayvon is dead.

The whole premise of the situation is ridiculous. Neighborhood watchmen should NOT be following people around armed with guns. I hate it when people who say "well you would have fired your gun in that situation too" no I wouldn't be following around suspicious people with a gun in the first place.

Why should he have not had a gun? All that accomplishes is to make Zimmerman defenseless.

Is that what would make everything better for you? If Zimmerman were dead instead of Trayvon?

If anything this is a lesson about the importance of allowing citizens to carry pistols in case they are attacked by unpredictable thugs. Without a firearm for self defense Zimmerman could be dead or have permanent brain damage.
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
April 20 2012 23:45 GMT
#955
On April 21 2012 08:35 RJGooner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 08:31 Holytornados wrote:
On April 21 2012 08:23 reki- wrote:
Potentially suspicious people. The guy (Trayvon) was just walking there minding his own business.


I still think that if there is a person wandering around late at night in a hoodie is suspicious.

I would not have pursued this person, but would have perhaps notified the police.


Which he did, and then he was told not to follow him. And it wasn't late at night.


I agree the pursuit was wrong, but what was he supposed to do after that? Let the guy beat him into the ground?

Give him a stalking charge or something, but this whole thing has just grown way out of control.
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
April 20 2012 23:48 GMT
#956
On April 21 2012 08:45 1Eris1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 08:35 RJGooner wrote:
On April 21 2012 08:31 Holytornados wrote:
On April 21 2012 08:23 reki- wrote:
Potentially suspicious people. The guy (Trayvon) was just walking there minding his own business.


I still think that if there is a person wandering around late at night in a hoodie is suspicious.

I would not have pursued this person, but would have perhaps notified the police.


Which he did, and then he was told not to follow him. And it wasn't late at night.


I agree the pursuit was wrong, but what was he supposed to do after that? Let the guy beat him into the ground?

Give him a stalking charge or something, but this whole thing has just grown way out of control.

they couldnt make a stalking charge stick.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324498&currentpage=33#641
Felnarion
Profile Joined December 2011
442 Posts
April 20 2012 23:57 GMT
#957
If Zimmerman was being attacked and punched Trayvon once in the face, killing him. Would you feel the same way about it? Would he be a horrible person?
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-21 00:00:42
April 21 2012 00:00 GMT
#958
On April 21 2012 03:52 Assault_1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 03:33 Half wrote:
On April 21 2012 02:04 RetroAspect wrote:
On April 20 2012 23:16 woody60707 wrote:
[image loading]

News photos of Zimmerman's head right after the attack. Does this change anyone's mind?


Not in the least. Why should it?


yeah, right! why would something so silly as "facts" change anyone's idealogy? Pretty misguided of you woody huh?

didn't change my mind, it was obvious since the beginning zimmerman did the right thing


Well I guess my thinly veiled conceit was misdirected, woops, no hard feelings :p
Too Busy to Troll!
HellRoxYa
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden1614 Posts
April 21 2012 00:01 GMT
#959
On April 21 2012 08:57 Felnarion wrote:
If Zimmerman was being attacked and punched Trayvon once in the face, killing him. Would you feel the same way about it? Would he be a horrible person?


No. Because a punch is not equal to the force of a gunshot. Indeed, a punch would have been a proportional response to escape the (alleged) situation he was in. Adding to this: There is no reason to think Zimmerman would have ment to kill with a punch, unlike a gunshot.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
April 21 2012 00:02 GMT
#960
On April 21 2012 09:01 HellRoxYa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 08:57 Felnarion wrote:
If Zimmerman was being attacked and punched Trayvon once in the face, killing him. Would you feel the same way about it? Would he be a horrible person?


No. Because a punch is not equal to the force of a gunshot. Indeed, a punch would have been a proportional response to escape the (alleged) situation he was in. Adding to this: There is no reason to think Zimmerman would have ment to kill with a punch, unlike a gunshot.

despite the cliche, everyone who shoots does not necessarily shoot to kill.
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