EPTShooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 122
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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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farvacola
United States18866 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
That should have been the story he was giving the entire time. The Trayvon wasn't some unarmed victim. Rather he was armed with a concrete sidewalk AND the muscles and skills that coincide being a football player. This not only goes towards the self defense claim, it also twists the story the prosecution is trying to force onto the court room. 2 birds with one stone. Ofc in this opening it was 1% of it and was lost under everything else. Also, the judge just schooled the defense attorneys again on the motions concerning the family members being in the court room. If somebody is a jury member watching this there is no way you can't dislike the defense case at this point solely on the basis of the ineptitude of the defense lawyers given. At some point you move away from technicalities and try to win the jury on a more superficial level. Even if they have facts they are def. losing the likability battle imo. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On June 25 2013 04:41 farvacola wrote: Wow, this judge may look like a frumpy old lady, but she has damn fine control of her courtroom. Circuit Judge Debra Nelson top 3 control | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
Gavels per minute =/= S level judging  | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On June 25 2013 04:53 xDaunt wrote: I was impressed at how restrained the judge was during the Defense's opening statement. I know judges who would have taken the defense to the woodshed in front of everyone for making the same error so many times. She took him to the woodshed pretty badly when it came to the motions after the opening. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
In a much more deliberate and plodding approach compared to the fiery tone of the prosecution, the defense team for George Zimmerman, the former neighborhood watch captain on trial for the second-degree murder of teenager Trayvon Martin, took more than three hours to deliver its opening remarks. “There are no monsters here,” said attorney Don West. Here are five key points that West presented to the jury during his lengthy opening statement in the Sanford, Florida courtroom: 1. Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman first. West, a criminal defense expert who joined the defense team last June, said: “Little did George Zimmerman know at the time in less than 10 minutes from him first seeing Travyon Martin that he, George Zimmerman, would be suckered punched in the face, have his head pounded on concrete and wind up shooting and tragically killing Trayvon Martin.” 2. Zimmerman was intimidated by the teenager. The defense attorney read part of a transcript of the call between Zimmerman and a police dispatcher from the night Martin, 17, died back to back this claim. In the call, Zimmerman: “…Now he’s coming towards me. He’s got his hands in his waistband…something’s wrong with him…he’s coming to check me out…there’s something in his hands.” 3. Martin chose to confront Zimmerman. West argues to jurors that Martin had several chances to go home and avoid conflict. “Choosing not to do that, he hid in the darkness to see about this guy who was following him,” West said. “And turned to George Zimmerman and asked him ‘why are you following me?’ ” West contended that the teenage girl Martin was on his cellphone with heard these final words before the call cuts off. 4. Zimmerman, once engaged in conflict with Martin, was in a potentially lethal fight. The defense’s entire case hinges on the premise that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin in self-defense. West says that the audio evidence of the 911 call shows that Zimmerman was screaming for help until a clear single shot rang out, resulting in Martin’s death. “I hope that you listen 1, 5, 10, 50 times if you need to,” the defense attorney told the jury. “What we know obviously, and everyone agrees to this … all of the witnesses agree those are the screams of someone in a life-threatening situation.” 5. At least one witness says Martin was beating Zimmerman up. A witness who lives only a few yards from where the fight happened says he clearly saw Martin, wearing a charcoal-colored hooded sweatshirt, on top of Zimmerman, wearing a red jacket, beating him in a mixed martial arts “ground and pound” style position. “He heard Zimmerman say ‘help me, help me.’ Trayvon Martin kept on hitting,” said defense attorney West. “You could hear the cries for help until the moment of the shot and there’s not more cries for help. Why would there be?” http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/06/24/trayvon-martin-case-the-defense-opens/#ixzz2XAfadXd9 | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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zbedlam
Australia549 Posts
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bugser
61 Posts
I don't understand why people were so eager to condemn him. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On June 25 2013 23:25 bugser wrote: George Zimmerman is sounding like a genuinely good guy. I don't understand why people were so eager to condemn him. People love a case that can be sensationalized to fit their beliefs/fears. A lot of people wanted to believe this was purely a hate crime to lash out over. | ||
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jeremycafe
United States354 Posts
On June 25 2013 23:30 Dfgj wrote: People love a case that can be sensationalized to fit their beliefs/fears. A lot of people wanted to believe this was purely a hate crime to lash out over. Exactly this. Zimmerman was simply trying to report people messing around in his neighborhood. Something any one of us would do. Sadly, he got a bit too close, spooked martin, and martin attacked. I think any sane person would have wished things had gone differently. Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle, I know I would never try to follow someone for my own safety. He got in over his head, and was taking a beating. Because of the half white vs black scenario, the media and the circus that follows Sharpton, this was turned into a race issue. The main argument for the state is that he was racially profiling Trayvon and that is why this is murder and not self defense. In my opinion, even if he was racially profiling, to make a claim he went out to kill someone that night is a joke. Zimmerman should be barred from any type of watch programs for getting out of his vehicle and following and at most do community service I feel terrible for Treyvon. I wish he would have ran home instead of decided to take the fight into his own hands. Losing family is the worst thing ever and no one should have to go through it. But this is hands down not a murder. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
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KwarK
United States44195 Posts
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jeremycafe
United States354 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:30 KwarK wrote: He was a moron with no training who got a gun and created a situation that was always likely to escalate beyond his control. He probably did shoot the guy in self defence, focussing on the incident ignores the issue that you've got morons with guns. Stupid people are always going to create situations they cannot manage and make problems they didn't anticipate and it's a weakness of American society akin to letting toddlers use grown up scissors. But if you're going to give people that kind of responsibility then they need to know that when they choose to carry a gun then they are choosing to potentially let things escalate into a lethal scenario and understand that they will be accountable for how they use it. If you cannot trust yourself to only ever use a gun on people who absolutely need to die then don't carry a gun. If you choose to carry a gun then you are responsible for the decision to escalate situations you cannot control into potentially lethal situations and if you fuck up then it's on you. "He was a moron with no training who got a gun and created a situation that was always likely to escalate beyond his control." He did have training. A patrol officer was sent to give a course on watch programs on Zimmerman's Request. He also took proper firearms training to obtain a license. Zimmerman wasn't the only person who made a bad decision that night. They both made decisions that resulted in what happened. Zimmerman should have stayed back and observed, not followed. Martin should have just gone home. He shouldn't have double backed and attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman didn't start a fight, he was trying to follow someone to give details to the police. He never had intent to fight or interact with Martin. Like I said, they both made mistakes. Don't go overboard with your statements. It is easy for people to say he was way out of line when we don't live in the same shitty area he lived in. That is not what is in question in this case. | ||
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pugowar
United States142 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:41 jeremycafe wrote: "He was a moron with no training who got a gun and created a situation that was always likely to escalate beyond his control." He did have training. A patrol officer was sent to give a course on watch programs on Zimmerman's Request. He also took proper firearms training to obtain a license. Zimmerman wasn't the only person who made a bad decision that night. They both made decisions that resulted in what happened. Zimmerman should have stayed back and observed, not followed. Martin should have just gone home. He shouldn't have double backed and attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman didn't start a fight, he was trying to follow someone to give details to the police. He never had intent to fight or interact with Martin. Like I said, they both made mistakes. Don't go overboard with your statements. It is easy for people to say he was way out of line when we don't live in the same shitty area he lived in. That is not what is in question in this case. You're right - they both made mistakes - and one is DEAD now. Z was asked not to follow him anymore - he spooked the kid - a teenager- and forced a bad situation. he is responsible - they both might be and T has paid for his responsibility. Now it is Z's turn. I would like to know what you would do if a man is following you at night? | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:41 jeremycafe wrote: "He was a moron with no training who got a gun and created a situation that was always likely to escalate beyond his control." He did have training. A patrol officer was sent to give a course on watch programs on Zimmerman's Request. He also took proper firearms training to obtain a license. Zimmerman wasn't the only person who made a bad decision that night. They both made decisions that resulted in what happened. Zimmerman should have stayed back and observed, not followed. Martin should have just gone home. He shouldn't have double backed and attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman didn't start a fight, he was trying to follow someone to give details to the police. He never had intent to fight or interact with Martin. Like I said, they both made mistakes. Don't go overboard with your statements. It is easy for people to say he was way out of line when we don't live in the same shitty area he lived in. That is not what is in question in this case. Wrong. Maybe both made wrong decisions, but only one had the means to kill and because of that, HAS to be smarter. If he isn't, it's on him. But that's what weapons do. Give you a (wrong) feeling of safety, nothing can happen to you right? And that's exactly what happens. A gun "forces" people to make the wrong decisions, because they can't handle the responsibility that comes with a gun/that kind of power. And that is exactly what happened here, at least in my mind. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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stevarius
United States1394 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:47 pugowar wrote: You're right - they both made mistakes - and one is DEAD now. Z was asked not to follow him anymore - he spooked the kid - a teenager- and forced a bad situation. he is responsible - they both might be and T has paid for his responsibility. Now it is Z's turn. I would like to know what you would do if a man is following you at night? Not attack him if I was unarmed. How dumb would you have to be not to flee in that kind of scenario? Also, a 911 dispatcher's commands or pleas do not carry the force of law. | ||
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