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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
On May 31 2013 12:59 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 12:56 Slaughter wrote:On May 31 2013 12:24 Anesthetic wrote:On May 31 2013 12:12 Slaughter wrote:On May 31 2013 12:01 Anesthetic wrote:On May 31 2013 11:49 Slaughter wrote:
He was close enough to be in speaking distance to Martin, who saw him stare at him and then get out of his car and follow him. If your getting that close you are confronting someone. And didn't the dispatch officer tell him to stop following him and let the police check it out? So because Zimmerman confronted Trayvon that gave him (Trayvon) the right to fight? It in no way does, despite the fact that Zimmerman was all up in his business didnt mean he had to defend himself, situations like those happen all the time and they dont end up in fights, in my opinion the person who initiated the fight is the person to blame. Even if Zimmerman was confronting Trayvon he still couldve walked away. Being followed by a guy you don't know at night time in an area supposedly that has significant crime? Kind of explains why Trayvon would be really nervous and afraid. Bottom line in MY view its all on Zimmerman because he was essentially stalking someone at night, which reasonably leads to the other individual (Martin) becoming nervous/afraid. Getting close enough to come into contact with him and question him elevates the stress level of Martin. All leads to the muddled events of the confrontation and a man ends up dead. All because Zimmerman wants to play captain neighborhood watch and do something he is not trained to do or is supposed to do. Civilians should not be confronting/following potential criminals. This whole situation is why people shouldn't do what Zimmerman did. If you live in an area that has significant crime you dont stop and try to confront someone who is following you unless 1) you are protecting a significant other/loved one 2) you think you are *tough shit* and willing to take the risk to fight some random person at night. Trayvon if he chose to stop and fight Zimmerman made a very big mistake that cost him his life, not to say thats what actually happened. I do agree Zimmerman should not have done what he did either but at the same time people should stop acting like Zimmerman is the only one that caused this situation to happen(I am basing this on the information that Trayvon chose to confront Zimmerman) I agree that its not all his fault but he brought the gun into the situation that he shouldn't be in because of the higher potential for conflict. That's why I said he should not get charged with murder but with some kind of reckless endangerment type thing I could see happening. He was being reckless in his actions and someone ended up dead. If Martin also made mistakes that doesn't matter in my view because it was all started by Zimmerman. TL;DR: Martin entered the fight because he knew he was either on the high ground or he held even footing.
Or he felt like his life depended on it.
Stop talking like you can read people's minds with no facts.
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Zimmerman has demonstrated recklessness in pursuing a situation where he was not needed. Worst of all, this unnecessary and incompetent (letting an unarmed 'suspicious' person get on top of you is beyond pathetic) little act of vigilante heroism resulted in the loss of a human being's life.
If some people want idiots like Zimmerman going around patrolling your neighborhood, it's their choice. Just hope their loved ones don't act suspicious or get involved in an altercation with a stranger who is following them around.
But hey, I heard it's not a crime to follow people. So maybe they'd be cool with a stranger following their children around.
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On May 31 2013 13:02 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 12:59 Jormundr wrote:On May 31 2013 12:56 Slaughter wrote:On May 31 2013 12:24 Anesthetic wrote:On May 31 2013 12:12 Slaughter wrote:On May 31 2013 12:01 Anesthetic wrote:On May 31 2013 11:49 Slaughter wrote:
He was close enough to be in speaking distance to Martin, who saw him stare at him and then get out of his car and follow him. If your getting that close you are confronting someone. And didn't the dispatch officer tell him to stop following him and let the police check it out? So because Zimmerman confronted Trayvon that gave him (Trayvon) the right to fight? It in no way does, despite the fact that Zimmerman was all up in his business didnt mean he had to defend himself, situations like those happen all the time and they dont end up in fights, in my opinion the person who initiated the fight is the person to blame. Even if Zimmerman was confronting Trayvon he still couldve walked away. Being followed by a guy you don't know at night time in an area supposedly that has significant crime? Kind of explains why Trayvon would be really nervous and afraid. Bottom line in MY view its all on Zimmerman because he was essentially stalking someone at night, which reasonably leads to the other individual (Martin) becoming nervous/afraid. Getting close enough to come into contact with him and question him elevates the stress level of Martin. All leads to the muddled events of the confrontation and a man ends up dead. All because Zimmerman wants to play captain neighborhood watch and do something he is not trained to do or is supposed to do. Civilians should not be confronting/following potential criminals. This whole situation is why people shouldn't do what Zimmerman did. If you live in an area that has significant crime you dont stop and try to confront someone who is following you unless 1) you are protecting a significant other/loved one 2) you think you are *tough shit* and willing to take the risk to fight some random person at night. Trayvon if he chose to stop and fight Zimmerman made a very big mistake that cost him his life, not to say thats what actually happened. I do agree Zimmerman should not have done what he did either but at the same time people should stop acting like Zimmerman is the only one that caused this situation to happen(I am basing this on the information that Trayvon chose to confront Zimmerman) I agree that its not all his fault but he brought the gun into the situation that he shouldn't be in because of the higher potential for conflict. That's why I said he should not get charged with murder but with some kind of reckless endangerment type thing I could see happening. He was being reckless in his actions and someone ended up dead. If Martin also made mistakes that doesn't matter in my view because it was all started by Zimmerman. TL;DR: Martin entered the fight because he knew he was either on the high ground or he held even footing. Or he felt like his life depended on it. Stop talking like you can read people's minds with no facts.
Apologies, this was about before I realized I was too drunk to post on here. I edited, because I had the wrong name, and after this I am done posting for the night.
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What this case has taught me as a grown man is that I should always carry a gun when I'm following teenage boys at night. Wait, wut.
User was warned for this post
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The amount of ignorance in this thread is remarkably terrible at times. I'm always reminded of why I stay away from it. So much baseless theories from apparent mind-readers.
On May 31 2013 13:12 Quexana wrote:
What this case has taught me as a grown man is that I should always carry a gun when I'm following teenage boys at night. Wait, wut.
User was warned for this post
Again Zimmerman following a "teenager" sounds a lot worse than the actuality of the situation. Trayvon was 5'11". Zimmerman did not ask to see his identification before he decided to follow him. Zimmerman had absolutely no idea the age of Trayvon.
On May 31 2013 12:59 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 12:56 Slaughter wrote:On May 31 2013 12:24 Anesthetic wrote:On May 31 2013 12:12 Slaughter wrote:On May 31 2013 12:01 Anesthetic wrote:On May 31 2013 11:49 Slaughter wrote:
He was close enough to be in speaking distance to Martin, who saw him stare at him and then get out of his car and follow him. If your getting that close you are confronting someone. And didn't the dispatch officer tell him to stop following him and let the police check it out? So because Zimmerman confronted Trayvon that gave him (Trayvon) the right to fight? It in no way does, despite the fact that Zimmerman was all up in his business didnt mean he had to defend himself, situations like those happen all the time and they dont end up in fights, in my opinion the person who initiated the fight is the person to blame. Even if Zimmerman was confronting Trayvon he still couldve walked away. Being followed by a guy you don't know at night time in an area supposedly that has significant crime? Kind of explains why Trayvon would be really nervous and afraid. Bottom line in MY view its all on Zimmerman because he was essentially stalking someone at night, which reasonably leads to the other individual (Martin) becoming nervous/afraid. Getting close enough to come into contact with him and question him elevates the stress level of Martin. All leads to the muddled events of the confrontation and a man ends up dead. All because Zimmerman wants to play captain neighborhood watch and do something he is not trained to do or is supposed to do. Civilians should not be confronting/following potential criminals. This whole situation is why people shouldn't do what Zimmerman did. If you live in an area that has significant crime you dont stop and try to confront someone who is following you unless 1) you are protecting a significant other/loved one 2) you think you are *tough shit* and willing to take the risk to fight some random person at night. Trayvon if he chose to stop and fight Zimmerman made a very big mistake that cost him his life, not to say thats what actually happened. I do agree Zimmerman should not have done what he did either but at the same time people should stop acting like Zimmerman is the only one that caused this situation to happen(I am basing this on the information that Trayvon chose to confront Zimmerman) I agree that its not all his fault but he brought the gun into the situation that he shouldn't be in because of the higher potential for conflict. That's why I said he should not get charged with murder but with some kind of reckless endangerment type thing I could see happening. He was being reckless in his actions and someone ended up dead. If Martin also made mistakes that doesn't matter in my view because it was all started by Zimmerman. TL;DR: Zimmerman entered the fight because he knew he was either on the high ground or he held even footing.
Zimmerman didn't enter any fight. We don't know what happened, no one does other than Zimmerman. By Zimmerman's account he was attacked and taken to the ground. There was no mutual fight going on here by his account. He stated that Trayvon confronted and attacked him.
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Again Zimmerman following a "teenager" sounds a lot worse than the actuality of the situation. Trayvon was 5'11". Zimmerman did not ask to see his identification before he decided to follow him. Zimmerman had absolutely no idea the age of Trayvon.
Seeing as how Zimmerman described Martin to the dispatcher as someone in his "late teens", I'd say he had a pretty good idea of the fact that Martin was a teenager. And yes, he was 5'11", but he was 5'11" and 155 pounds. Zimmerman was 5'8" 200 pounds. That's one Big, scary, scrawny teenager. If you look at the log of the dispatcher, Zimmerman didn't witness Martin committing any crimes. He witnessed Martin looking around. Looking isn't a crime. Martin tried running away from this guy in a car watching him, Zimmerman pursued him, concerned because according to him "These assholes. They always get away" What assholes was he talking about? All he saw was a black person who appeared to be in his "late teens" walking in the rain, wearing a hoodie. I'm sure those are the assholes he meant. We need to have Zimmerman join that Criminal Minds show as he has apparently masterful criminal profiling skills. If only we had more brave citizens willing to stop black kids from walking in the rain while wearing hoodies, our crime rate would drop to zero!!
I'm sorry but if I'm walking home from the convenience store, minding my own business, and I see a stranger in a car staring at me, then following me, I'm gonna run. And if he then starts chasing me down, after I'm running away from him, I'm not thinking he's the nice community watch leader, I'm thinking kidnapper/pedophile and I'm gonna fight him. I'm not saying that Zimmerman is guilty of murder, but he should be held accountable for manslaughter. He tried to play hero and profiled a kid as a criminal because he was walking casually in the rain. and he guessed wrong. Why shouldn't he be held responsible for being wrong when his mistake ended in the death of someone?
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On May 31 2013 14:52 Quexana wrote:Show nested quote +Again Zimmerman following a "teenager" sounds a lot worse than the actuality of the situation. Trayvon was 5'11". Zimmerman did not ask to see his identification before he decided to follow him. Zimmerman had absolutely no idea the age of Trayvon. Seeing as how Zimmerman described Martin to the dispatcher as someone in his "late teens", I'd say he had a pretty good idea of the fact that Martin was a teenager. And yes, he was 5'11", but he was 5'11" and 155 pounds. Zimmerman was 5'8" 200 pounds. That's one Big, scary, scrawny teenager. If you look at the log of the dispatcher, Zimmerman didn't witness Martin committing any crimes. He witnessed Martin looking around. Looking isn't a crime. Martin tried running away from this guy in a car watching him, Zimmerman pursued him, concerned because according to him "These assholes. They always get away" What assholes was he talking about? All he saw was a black person who appeared to be in his "late teens" walking in the rain, wearing a hoodie. I'm sure those are the assholes he meant. We need to have Zimmerman join that Criminal Minds show as he has apparently masterful criminal profiling skills. If only we had more brave citizens willing to stop black kids from walking in the rain while wearing hoodies, our crime rate would drop to zero!! I'm sorry but if I'm walking home from the convenience store, minding my own business, and I see a stranger in a car staring at me, then following me, I'm gonna run. And if he then starts chasing me down, after I'm running away from him, I'm not thinking he's the nice community watch leader, I'm thinking kidnapper/pedophile and I'm gonna fight him. I'm not saying that Zimmerman is guilty of murder, but he should be held accountable for manslaughter. He tried to play hero and profiled a kid as a criminal because he was walking casually in the rain. and he guessed wrong. Why shouldn't he be held accountable for being wrong when his mistake ended in the death of someone.
Because if it turns out that the law punishes you for playing vigilante the "you need guns for self defense" suddenly gets another mark against it.
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If it turns out that he did pursue Martin with his firearm he broke one of the most basic rules of ccw, never look for trouble when you're armed. Florida restricts open carry to a few situations which don't apply to him running personal errands as he claims. So if he was legally carrying outside of his automobile, he was doing so with a ccw permit and those classes make it very clear what your responsibilities are when you carry. I don't buy his story of Martin randomly attacking him. Judging by his statements I believe he pursued Martin while carrying instead of getting in his car and going home. If he wasn't pursuing Martin he wouldn't have been on foot where Martin could possibly attack him he would have been in his car going home. His recklessness and disregard for proper ccw safety caused the events which led up to Martin's death, regardless of who initiated the fight. The guy tried to play the role of police officer when he had no damn business doing so.
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If Trayvon was on top of him and punching him. Zman is defenseless and paralyzed on the ground, save for a gun. Why the fuck would you fire a gun in a "late teens" chest? Leg, hip, buttock, it's just a question of angle of your arm and hand. A bullet wound would be enough to scare off any attacker - especially one that was possibly yelling for help and trying to run away from you.
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On May 31 2013 16:35 Lt_Stork wrote:
If Trayvon was on top of him and punching him. Zman is defenseless and paralyzed on the ground, save for a gun. Why the fuck would you fire a gun in a "late teens" chest? Leg, hip, buttock, it's just a question of angle of your arm and hand. A bullet wound would be enough to scare off any attacker - especially one that was possibly yelling for help and trying to run away from you.
You've obviously never been in such a situation have you? At that moment, your mind is rational in the sense of surviving. Emotion running on adrenaline, fear, and rage. Trying to think through of what the best is both of them is probably far below those two.
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On May 31 2013 16:39 BirdKiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 16:35 Lt_Stork wrote:
If Trayvon was on top of him and punching him. Zman is defenseless and paralyzed on the ground, save for a gun. Why the fuck would you fire a gun in a "late teens" chest? Leg, hip, buttock, it's just a question of angle of your arm and hand. A bullet wound would be enough to scare off any attacker - especially one that was possibly yelling for help and trying to run away from you. You've obviously never been in such a situation have you? At that moment, your mind is rational in the sense of surviving. Emotion running on adrenaline, fear, and rage. Trying to think through of what the best is both of them is probably far below those two.
He ended his call with the dispatcher and decided to go around to houses to stop Trayvon. Sounds like a man that is acting rational and intentional. He didn't return to his car but instead sought confrontation with Trayvon - despite Trayvon having run away from him earlier. Doesn't sound like a man full of adrenaline, fear or rage. How is he acting in self defense when he's running after Trayvon?
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On May 31 2013 13:38 Krohm wrote:The amount of ignorance in this thread is remarkably terrible at times. I'm always reminded of why I stay away from it. So much baseless theories from apparent mind-readers. Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 13:12 Quexana wrote:
What this case has taught me as a grown man is that I should always carry a gun when I'm following teenage boys at night. Wait, wut.
User was warned for this post Again Zimmerman following a "teenager" sounds a lot worse than the actuality of the situation. Trayvon was 5'11". Zimmerman did not ask to see his identification before he decided to follow him. Zimmerman had absolutely no idea the age of Trayvon. Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 12:59 Jormundr wrote:On May 31 2013 12:56 Slaughter wrote:On May 31 2013 12:24 Anesthetic wrote:On May 31 2013 12:12 Slaughter wrote:On May 31 2013 12:01 Anesthetic wrote:On May 31 2013 11:49 Slaughter wrote:
He was close enough to be in speaking distance to Martin, who saw him stare at him and then get out of his car and follow him. If your getting that close you are confronting someone. And didn't the dispatch officer tell him to stop following him and let the police check it out? So because Zimmerman confronted Trayvon that gave him (Trayvon) the right to fight? It in no way does, despite the fact that Zimmerman was all up in his business didnt mean he had to defend himself, situations like those happen all the time and they dont end up in fights, in my opinion the person who initiated the fight is the person to blame. Even if Zimmerman was confronting Trayvon he still couldve walked away. Being followed by a guy you don't know at night time in an area supposedly that has significant crime? Kind of explains why Trayvon would be really nervous and afraid. Bottom line in MY view its all on Zimmerman because he was essentially stalking someone at night, which reasonably leads to the other individual (Martin) becoming nervous/afraid. Getting close enough to come into contact with him and question him elevates the stress level of Martin. All leads to the muddled events of the confrontation and a man ends up dead. All because Zimmerman wants to play captain neighborhood watch and do something he is not trained to do or is supposed to do. Civilians should not be confronting/following potential criminals. This whole situation is why people shouldn't do what Zimmerman did. If you live in an area that has significant crime you dont stop and try to confront someone who is following you unless 1) you are protecting a significant other/loved one 2) you think you are *tough shit* and willing to take the risk to fight some random person at night. Trayvon if he chose to stop and fight Zimmerman made a very big mistake that cost him his life, not to say thats what actually happened. I do agree Zimmerman should not have done what he did either but at the same time people should stop acting like Zimmerman is the only one that caused this situation to happen(I am basing this on the information that Trayvon chose to confront Zimmerman) I agree that its not all his fault but he brought the gun into the situation that he shouldn't be in because of the higher potential for conflict. That's why I said he should not get charged with murder but with some kind of reckless endangerment type thing I could see happening. He was being reckless in his actions and someone ended up dead. If Martin also made mistakes that doesn't matter in my view because it was all started by Zimmerman. TL;DR: Zimmerman entered the fight because he knew he was either on the high ground or he held even footing. Zimmerman didn't enter any fight. We don't know what happened, no one does other than Zimmerman. By Zimmerman's account he was attacked and taken to the ground. There was no mutual fight going on here by his account. He stated that Trayvon confronted and attacked him.
It just doesn't make any sense for ZImmerman, who had previously been running after Martin, to suddenly decide he was not interested in confronting Martin anymore and wanted to return to his car. It makes even less sense for Martin, who had been running away from a man who clearly scared him, to suddenly charge Zimmerman, if he was indeed returning to his car. I think Zimmerman is quite clearly giving an account that puts him in the most favorable light, or in other words, lying.
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On May 31 2013 16:50 Lt_Stork wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 16:39 BirdKiller wrote:On May 31 2013 16:35 Lt_Stork wrote:
If Trayvon was on top of him and punching him. Zman is defenseless and paralyzed on the ground, save for a gun. Why the fuck would you fire a gun in a "late teens" chest? Leg, hip, buttock, it's just a question of angle of your arm and hand. A bullet wound would be enough to scare off any attacker - especially one that was possibly yelling for help and trying to run away from you. You've obviously never been in such a situation have you? At that moment, your mind is rational in the sense of surviving. Emotion running on adrenaline, fear, and rage. Trying to think through of what the best is both of them is probably far below those two. He ended his call with the dispatcher and decided to go around to houses to stop Trayvon. Sounds like a man that is acting rational and intentional. He didn't return to his car but instead sought confrontation with Trayvon - despite Trayvon having run away from him earlier. Doesn't sound like a man full of adrenaline, fear or rage. How is he acting in self defense when he's running after Trayvon?
Hes talking about in the actual physical fight, and he does have a point when your actively in physical conflict with another person you do some pretty stupid things.
On May 31 2013 12:59 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 12:56 Slaughter wrote:On May 31 2013 12:24 Anesthetic wrote:On May 31 2013 12:12 Slaughter wrote:On May 31 2013 12:01 Anesthetic wrote:On May 31 2013 11:49 Slaughter wrote:
He was close enough to be in speaking distance to Martin, who saw him stare at him and then get out of his car and follow him. If your getting that close you are confronting someone. And didn't the dispatch officer tell him to stop following him and let the police check it out? So because Zimmerman confronted Trayvon that gave him (Trayvon) the right to fight? It in no way does, despite the fact that Zimmerman was all up in his business didnt mean he had to defend himself, situations like those happen all the time and they dont end up in fights, in my opinion the person who initiated the fight is the person to blame. Even if Zimmerman was confronting Trayvon he still couldve walked away. Being followed by a guy you don't know at night time in an area supposedly that has significant crime? Kind of explains why Trayvon would be really nervous and afraid. Bottom line in MY view its all on Zimmerman because he was essentially stalking someone at night, which reasonably leads to the other individual (Martin) becoming nervous/afraid. Getting close enough to come into contact with him and question him elevates the stress level of Martin. All leads to the muddled events of the confrontation and a man ends up dead. All because Zimmerman wants to play captain neighborhood watch and do something he is not trained to do or is supposed to do. Civilians should not be confronting/following potential criminals. This whole situation is why people shouldn't do what Zimmerman did. If you live in an area that has significant crime you dont stop and try to confront someone who is following you unless 1) you are protecting a significant other/loved one 2) you think you are *tough shit* and willing to take the risk to fight some random person at night. Trayvon if he chose to stop and fight Zimmerman made a very big mistake that cost him his life, not to say thats what actually happened. I do agree Zimmerman should not have done what he did either but at the same time people should stop acting like Zimmerman is the only one that caused this situation to happen(I am basing this on the information that Trayvon chose to confront Zimmerman) I agree that its not all his fault but he brought the gun into the situation that he shouldn't be in because of the higher potential for conflict. That's why I said he should not get charged with murder but with some kind of reckless endangerment type thing I could see happening. He was being reckless in his actions and someone ended up dead. If Martin also made mistakes that doesn't matter in my view because it was all started by Zimmerman. TL;DR: Zimmerman entered the fight because he knew he was either on the high ground or he held even footing.
In my opinion this doesn't account for crap if Zimmerman wasn't the one to actually initiate the fight.
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On May 31 2013 15:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 14:52 Quexana wrote:Again Zimmerman following a "teenager" sounds a lot worse than the actuality of the situation. Trayvon was 5'11". Zimmerman did not ask to see his identification before he decided to follow him. Zimmerman had absolutely no idea the age of Trayvon. Seeing as how Zimmerman described Martin to the dispatcher as someone in his "late teens", I'd say he had a pretty good idea of the fact that Martin was a teenager. And yes, he was 5'11", but he was 5'11" and 155 pounds. Zimmerman was 5'8" 200 pounds. That's one Big, scary, scrawny teenager. If you look at the log of the dispatcher, Zimmerman didn't witness Martin committing any crimes. He witnessed Martin looking around. Looking isn't a crime. Martin tried running away from this guy in a car watching him, Zimmerman pursued him, concerned because according to him "These assholes. They always get away" What assholes was he talking about? All he saw was a black person who appeared to be in his "late teens" walking in the rain, wearing a hoodie. I'm sure those are the assholes he meant. We need to have Zimmerman join that Criminal Minds show as he has apparently masterful criminal profiling skills. If only we had more brave citizens willing to stop black kids from walking in the rain while wearing hoodies, our crime rate would drop to zero!! I'm sorry but if I'm walking home from the convenience store, minding my own business, and I see a stranger in a car staring at me, then following me, I'm gonna run. And if he then starts chasing me down, after I'm running away from him, I'm not thinking he's the nice community watch leader, I'm thinking kidnapper/pedophile and I'm gonna fight him. I'm not saying that Zimmerman is guilty of murder, but he should be held accountable for manslaughter. He tried to play hero and profiled a kid as a criminal because he was walking casually in the rain. and he guessed wrong. Why shouldn't he be held accountable for being wrong when his mistake ended in the death of someone. Because if it turns out that the law punishes you for playing vigilante the "you need guns for self defense" suddenly gets another mark against it.
If Zimmerman would have died unarmed then us gun nuts would have said "too bad he didn't have a gun" and you'd probably say something like "if he had a gun more people might have died" or some other nonsense which always get's repeated anytime that is suggested. This story isn't a mark against guns for self defense its a mark against gun control if anything. Zimmerman's gun saved his life as far as I can tell and until there comes out evidence that his life wasn't in danger (highly unlikely) that's the way it is.
On May 31 2013 16:35 Lt_Stork wrote:
If Trayvon was on top of him and punching him. Zman is defenseless and paralyzed on the ground, save for a gun. Why the fuck would you fire a gun in a "late teens" chest? Leg, hip, buttock, it's just a question of angle of your arm and hand. A bullet wound would be enough to scare off any attacker - especially one that was possibly yelling for help and trying to run away from you.
How do you know he knew that Trayvon was in his "late teens"? How do you know he had a chance to aim his gun somewhere non-lethal while he was being punched?
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On May 31 2013 22:19 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 15:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 31 2013 14:52 Quexana wrote:Again Zimmerman following a "teenager" sounds a lot worse than the actuality of the situation. Trayvon was 5'11". Zimmerman did not ask to see his identification before he decided to follow him. Zimmerman had absolutely no idea the age of Trayvon. Seeing as how Zimmerman described Martin to the dispatcher as someone in his "late teens", I'd say he had a pretty good idea of the fact that Martin was a teenager. And yes, he was 5'11", but he was 5'11" and 155 pounds. Zimmerman was 5'8" 200 pounds. That's one Big, scary, scrawny teenager. If you look at the log of the dispatcher, Zimmerman didn't witness Martin committing any crimes. He witnessed Martin looking around. Looking isn't a crime. Martin tried running away from this guy in a car watching him, Zimmerman pursued him, concerned because according to him "These assholes. They always get away" What assholes was he talking about? All he saw was a black person who appeared to be in his "late teens" walking in the rain, wearing a hoodie. I'm sure those are the assholes he meant. We need to have Zimmerman join that Criminal Minds show as he has apparently masterful criminal profiling skills. If only we had more brave citizens willing to stop black kids from walking in the rain while wearing hoodies, our crime rate would drop to zero!! I'm sorry but if I'm walking home from the convenience store, minding my own business, and I see a stranger in a car staring at me, then following me, I'm gonna run. And if he then starts chasing me down, after I'm running away from him, I'm not thinking he's the nice community watch leader, I'm thinking kidnapper/pedophile and I'm gonna fight him. I'm not saying that Zimmerman is guilty of murder, but he should be held accountable for manslaughter. He tried to play hero and profiled a kid as a criminal because he was walking casually in the rain. and he guessed wrong. Why shouldn't he be held accountable for being wrong when his mistake ended in the death of someone. Because if it turns out that the law punishes you for playing vigilante the "you need guns for self defense" suddenly gets another mark against it. If Zimmerman would have died unarmed then us gun nuts would have said "too bad he didn't have a gun" and you'd probably say something like "if he had a gun more people might have died" or some other nonsense which always get's repeated anytime that is suggested. This story isn't a mark against guns for self defense its a mark against gun control if anything. Zimmerman's gun saved his life as far as I can tell and until there comes out evidence that his life wasn't in danger (highly unlikely) that's the way it is.
well its nice for you that this event correlates with your political agenda
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On May 31 2013 22:31 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 22:19 kmillz wrote:On May 31 2013 15:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 31 2013 14:52 Quexana wrote:Again Zimmerman following a "teenager" sounds a lot worse than the actuality of the situation. Trayvon was 5'11". Zimmerman did not ask to see his identification before he decided to follow him. Zimmerman had absolutely no idea the age of Trayvon. Seeing as how Zimmerman described Martin to the dispatcher as someone in his "late teens", I'd say he had a pretty good idea of the fact that Martin was a teenager. And yes, he was 5'11", but he was 5'11" and 155 pounds. Zimmerman was 5'8" 200 pounds. That's one Big, scary, scrawny teenager. If you look at the log of the dispatcher, Zimmerman didn't witness Martin committing any crimes. He witnessed Martin looking around. Looking isn't a crime. Martin tried running away from this guy in a car watching him, Zimmerman pursued him, concerned because according to him "These assholes. They always get away" What assholes was he talking about? All he saw was a black person who appeared to be in his "late teens" walking in the rain, wearing a hoodie. I'm sure those are the assholes he meant. We need to have Zimmerman join that Criminal Minds show as he has apparently masterful criminal profiling skills. If only we had more brave citizens willing to stop black kids from walking in the rain while wearing hoodies, our crime rate would drop to zero!! I'm sorry but if I'm walking home from the convenience store, minding my own business, and I see a stranger in a car staring at me, then following me, I'm gonna run. And if he then starts chasing me down, after I'm running away from him, I'm not thinking he's the nice community watch leader, I'm thinking kidnapper/pedophile and I'm gonna fight him. I'm not saying that Zimmerman is guilty of murder, but he should be held accountable for manslaughter. He tried to play hero and profiled a kid as a criminal because he was walking casually in the rain. and he guessed wrong. Why shouldn't he be held accountable for being wrong when his mistake ended in the death of someone. Because if it turns out that the law punishes you for playing vigilante the "you need guns for self defense" suddenly gets another mark against it. If Zimmerman would have died unarmed then us gun nuts would have said "too bad he didn't have a gun" and you'd probably say something like "if he had a gun more people might have died" or some other nonsense which always get's repeated anytime that is suggested. This story isn't a mark against guns for self defense its a mark against gun control if anything. Zimmerman's gun saved his life as far as I can tell and until there comes out evidence that his life wasn't in danger (highly unlikely) that's the way it is. well its nice for you that this event correlates with your political agenda
Uhh no, if you can actually read, you would see that he was trying to make it correlate with his political agenda, and I pointed out how if anything it would be the opposite. Aka, it doesn't necessarily correlate with any political agenda.
Because if it turns out that the law punishes you for playing vigilante the "you need guns for self defense" suddenly gets another mark against it.
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@kmillz - that's what he said to the dispatcher and it was a good guess seeing how Trayvon was 17
Earlier today I read that Zimmerman used to work as a bouncer for illegal parties between 2001 - 2005. What kind of ex-bouncer, vigilante is afraid of a 11 year younger teenager? It doesn't add up
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If someone were pushing a political agenda they'd probably argue that without the gun neither of them would have ended up dead.
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On May 31 2013 16:50 Lt_Stork wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 16:39 BirdKiller wrote:On May 31 2013 16:35 Lt_Stork wrote:
If Trayvon was on top of him and punching him. Zman is defenseless and paralyzed on the ground, save for a gun. Why the fuck would you fire a gun in a "late teens" chest? Leg, hip, buttock, it's just a question of angle of your arm and hand. A bullet wound would be enough to scare off any attacker - especially one that was possibly yelling for help and trying to run away from you. You've obviously never been in such a situation have you? At that moment, your mind is rational in the sense of surviving. Emotion running on adrenaline, fear, and rage. Trying to think through of what the best is both of them is probably far below those two. He ended his call with the dispatcher and decided to go around to houses to stop Trayvon. Sounds like a man that is acting rational and intentional. He didn't return to his car but instead sought confrontation with Trayvon - despite Trayvon having run away from him earlier. Doesn't sound like a man full of adrenaline, fear or rage. How is he acting in self defense when he's running after Trayvon?
You're completely ignoring the question. The question was not whether or not the man wanted to provoke a fight or premeditated, the question was what a person is thinking while in a fight. I answered that, and now you come back with a totally different question from the original; the "full of adrenaline, fear or rage" comes from within fighting itself, not for wanting to fight or initiate one.
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If I liked/owned guns and was in a situation where I needed to use one, I would have shot him in the chest. In the first place however I mind my own fucking business and I don't follow people. Sure I'd call the cops and let them know if something was fishy, but him handling it himself was obviously a bad idea. This all reminds me of the guy in Texas who shot two kids in the back who were stealing from his neighbors house when they weren't home. I'm sorry, but I really don't think people who aren't cops should be allowed to act like them.
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EPT
