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On November 04 2011 08:10 metbull wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 08:02 Paperplane wrote:On November 04 2011 07:36 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 07:06 ampson wrote:
It seems like half the people in this thread didn't read the whole OP and article. She was punished for pirating, which IS a crime, NOT using the internet. And while the father did undoubtedly go too far for beating her for the length of time that he did, and said some things that I'm sure he regrets, corporal punishment is not a bad thing, he just went too far with it. I agree the OP is wrong in part not in whole. According the reports she was caught pirating some form of software that wasn't legally available for purchase. But you have to be on the internet to download something. Yeah its a bit misleading; but if someone does 1 google search they will learn what the situation is. So if the op was changed to reflect she was beat for pirating does that make the father justified in doing what he did then? Ok, so now if I catch you speeding on your way to work.... I now get to pull you out of your car and beat the shit out of you? I say you, but I don't direct it at you ampson, but its a collective "you." Does the fact that you broke the law justify your punishment? No. Also, how many times must a person go "too far with it" for it to be criminal? You've got to have a serious answer for me somewhere in there. Also I am for corporal punishment. But I am against Child Abuse. I'm sorry but this does not compute. Sure it does. I can punish my 3 year old with a swat on the butt. I cannot pick her up, throw her on the bed, then hit her repeatedly with my belt, and scream into her face that she doesn't belong in my house. Corporal punishment is NOT Abuse. Because corporal punishment (as i was taught) serves a clearly defined goal to deter a prohibited action for the offender(the child). While Abuse serves no clearly defined goal to deter a prohibited action of the offender (the child). Perhaps you are not old enough to understand parenthood, i don't know.
I pretty much agree with this 100%. As a child I was spanked on the butt or slapped on the head if I misbehaved (do something to make my brother cry or something along those lines). It was just a quick spank and then sent timeout for 15 minutes or whatever. I don't see anything wrong with this. What this video is showing is something else, my father never used close to his full strength, never used a belt, and never did anything more than spank me 1 or 2 times.
I think being spanked was a good punishment. It made me not want to do the behavior again, which was not always the case if I was just talked too/not able to eat candy for a week or something similar. I never/don't think poorly of my parents for it, and into my JHS/HS years I never really acted out against my parents so it clearly worked..
There is a huge difference between just spanking your child and beating them like what was shown in the video.
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Well Chewbacca that just proves what we have been saying all along. You turning out ok DESPITE the fact the you where spanked now means that you think that it is ok to spank children.
Now i understand where you are coming from and i am sure you are a perfectly normal person, but somebody might "misunderstand" the concept and go to far, but then when is too far? and how does one judge?
Also you can never base these arguments on your own experiences like you do, because i could do the same right? I never got spanked and hell i turned out better than ok, but i dont think either of us can attribute that to fact that we where spanked or not. The fact is that SOME suffer from this and some are being abused and the fine line grey area is what is enabling this. If people decided it was never ok to hit anyone people would gradually stop doing it end of story.
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On November 04 2011 08:45 Scrimpton wrote:she saved it for 7 years. if she was rele worried, send it to police on the day.. but she rather be manipulative bitch and release on election time... hmmm.. and we all fall for it 
this is the most fucking ignorant thing I have read in the last few months
how you have avoided a ban for this I don't know
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On November 04 2011 07:58 metbull wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 07:28 urashimakt wrote:On November 04 2011 07:23 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 06:51 urashimakt wrote:
He beat his daughter.... and that, my friend, is what is important, not the why or causation. Yeah, well I disagree. Beating someone for no reason is way different than beating someone for breaking the law. They're both wrong in my opinion and the guy deserves investigation, but they're still different. Ok so I can beat anyone's ass for say.........speeding? Justified (or just different?) now? They clearly violated the state/federal law. And therefore must be punished. So I am well within my rights as a father to physically beat my child for 7 minutes and 30 (taking breaks throughout to catch my breath or get another belt cause I just have to have one in my hands) and emotionally abusing my child as well. By the way there is something called the 14th Amendment (the Due Process clause) it protects people from punishments of this kind. If this father thought that what she did was so terrible and illegal; turn her it. I mean he is a judge after all. Sworn to uphold the law...... what a farce And what you've said doesn't show me HOW they are different. Your only saying they are different, with no justification. Beating = Child Abuse (no defined goals to deter further prohibited actions) spanking = corporal punishment (defined goals to deter further prohibited actions) A)Walking up to someone (you don't know) and beating them down can (but not always) earn you the same punishment as if that b) person beat up someone who just stole their cell phone. A) is just Battery b) is Assault and Battery Judge Adams might have been brought up on charges (at the time) for Aggravated Assault and Battery. Aggravated because a belt may or may not be considered a deadly weapon in Texas. And yes people, you can die from a belt, and children have before. google it. I agree with you on this point, he does deserve investigation.
You're putting words in my mouth now, man. My statement wasn't: "What he did isn't that bad." It was that we should judge him based on what he did. We don't need to lie about or obscure what he did to make it worse. He beat his daughter for stealing, which in most views is less worse than beating his daughter for using the internet. One is severely misguided and one is sadistic. Both deserve action.
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On November 04 2011 09:23 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 08:45 Scrimpton wrote:she saved it for 7 years. if she was rele worried, send it to police on the day.. but she rather be manipulative bitch and release on election time... hmmm.. and we all fall for it this is the most fucking ignorant thing I have read in the last few months how you have avoided a ban for this I don't know
While it may not sound nice him calling her a manipulative bitch and all, it is true that for some reason she chose to save the video for 7 years and just now post it at what seems to be a completely random time from her POV but a critical time from her fathers POV.
Yes there are cases when abused children might not want to report their parents because they could lose their home and end up living somewhere else, but that only really explains her saving it for 2-3 years. By the time she was 18-20 she could of easily been living on her own and released it then.
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This dude should get beaten up by a professional kickboxer, who tells him "ARE YOU STILL GONNA BEAT YOUR DAUGHTER? BEND OVER, LAY ON YOUR STOMACHE"
Seriously, this should be his punishment, to get threaten like what he did to his daughter.
Such a piece of shit ...
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On November 04 2011 05:46 Brosaurus wrote:
Why is everyone getting worked up. I know it's hard to understand, but it's a cultural thing. I seriously don't see anything wrong with that video. I understand how someone who never experienced that would be upset but based on that video, it's not that bad. Now he may be a terrible parent, but I don't think that video is enough proof.
On another note, the reason she uploaded the video now was because her father wanted her car back. Probably the one HE bought her. She threatened to upload the video and he didn't care, because he didn't think it was bad.
Lastly, why are people lashing out against corporal punishment but then turning around and saying that the father should get the shit kicked out of him. I find that weird.
I doubt many young adults would not threatened their parents, after being loved so passionately as this girl was.
That is the whole idea behind it, it is not acceptable to physically or mentally abuse children. That will shape them as adults and they will shape world around us. This world is already fucked up enough.
Would you like your child go to a birthday party, do something unacceptable, get nagged on like there is no tomorrow then threatened that if he/she tell it to anyone where would be more trouble.
I don't care if such people live alone in a forest, but in our society this should be unacceptable as standard.
This youtube clip made me feel the same way the movie The Girl Next Door did (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0830558/). Just wrong, but obviously even developed countries are lagging behind.
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On November 02 2011 10:57 Zephirdd wrote:
while I do agree that "physical punishment" isn't as bad as people make it out to be, there are limits and this guy goes over the limits A LOT. It's sickening, actually.
I mean, most of it isn't even about how he was trying to "teach" the girl, it was just "you brought this to yourself", "I'm mad at you", "take it on". It wasn't teaching, it wasn't a lesson, it was pure need to vent on her, the pure need to "show who is in control". There are situations and situations, and this is not a correct situation.
It's even sad that a guy like that is a Judge IMO.
I think you've nailed it. I am a father of 2 myself and (I know I'm going to take some heat because of this) I do practice physical punishment some times. But the ESSENCE of punishing your kid is to teach them, educate them, not to release your anger. Sometimes I have to go away and vent before punishing (because shit, they can get you mad!) but the whole purpose of the punishment is lost if you do it in anger. I believe physical, social or mental punishment are valid only if the real consequence of what your son/daughter is doing is way too grave for them to take yet, so you as father face the consequences of whatever your siblings have done and then give them a lesson that can be managed at their level (imo a slap in the hand and some time on their bedroom is appropriate if they are trying to get their fingers on the electric jack, since the consequences of it are MUCH worse than what they can handle). On the contrary, if they can handle the consequence (you tell a 4yo not to walk barefoot on a very harsh surface cuz she will feel pain, and obviously she ignores you and comes back crying, then the task at hand is to make sure the relation cause-effect they just experienced is comprehended).
It is really concerning that a Judge (a.k.a a person in which judgement we trust) can allow himself to take important decisions in anger. If her daughter got emotionally scarred because of this, imagine how an innocent man sent to prison would be, just because the judge was having "a bad day".
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On November 03 2011 12:18 koreasilver wrote:
This thread is so chock full of direct examples of how victims internalize abuse and later use their abuse to justify abusing others, donning the mask of those that abused them.
It's not only sad but downright disturbing.
That's an unfair argument.
You're saying that all opinions for corporal punishment come from previous abuse and therefore cannot be valued.
It's almost like those religious arguments. Pretty insane.
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I'm getting increasingly disappointed by this whole story. Just came out that she released the video because he threatened to take away her mercedes and cut her off because she dropped out of college with 2 classes remaining to work at a video game store part time. This is nothing more than her getting vengeance on her dad in the most petty and destructive way possible. If she really wanted to just get him help she would have discreetly sent it to the police and judicial review board to investigate but instead she put it on reddit so it could go viral and ruin her entire family. Incredibly short sighted move on her part and pretty manipulative.
She is obviously the victim, I'm not trying to say that she is to blame, it's obviously all his fault. However the manner in which she released the video was not how she should have done it.
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On November 04 2011 10:06 Geosensation wrote:
I'm getting increasingly disappointed by this whole story. Just came out that she released the video because he threatened to take away her mercedes and cut her off because she dropped out of college with 2 classes remaining to work at a video game store part time. This is nothing more than her getting vengeance on her dad in the most petty and destructive way possible. If she really wanted to just get him help she would have discreetly sent it to the police and judicial review board to investigate but instead she put it on reddit so it could go viral and ruin her entire family. Incredibly short sighted move on her part and pretty manipulative.
She is obviously the victim, I'm not trying to say that she is to blame, it's obviously all his fault. However the manner in which she released the video was not how she should have done it.
I thought she was 16?
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On November 04 2011 08:50 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 08:27 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 08:13 Paperplane wrote:On November 04 2011 08:10 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 08:02 Paperplane wrote:On November 04 2011 07:36 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 07:06 ampson wrote:
It seems like half the people in this thread didn't read the whole OP and article. She was punished for pirating, which IS a crime, NOT using the internet. And while the father did undoubtedly go too far for beating her for the length of time that he did, and said some things that I'm sure he regrets, corporal punishment is not a bad thing, he just went too far with it. I agree the OP is wrong in part not in whole. According the reports she was caught pirating some form of software that wasn't legally available for purchase. But you have to be on the internet to download something. Yeah its a bit misleading; but if someone does 1 google search they will learn what the situation is. So if the op was changed to reflect she was beat for pirating does that make the father justified in doing what he did then? Ok, so now if I catch you speeding on your way to work.... I now get to pull you out of your car and beat the shit out of you? I say you, but I don't direct it at you ampson, but its a collective "you." Does the fact that you broke the law justify your punishment? No. Also, how many times must a person go "too far with it" for it to be criminal? You've got to have a serious answer for me somewhere in there. Also I am for corporal punishment. But I am against Child Abuse. I'm sorry but this does not compute. Sure it does. I can punish my 3 year old with a swat on the butt. I cannot pick her up, throw her on the bed, then hit her repeatedly with my belt, and scream into her face that she doesn't belong in my house. Corporal punishment is NOT Abuse. Because corporal punishment (as i was taught) serves a defined goal to deter a prohibited action for the offender(the child). While Abuse serves no clearly defined goal to deter a prohibited action of the offender (the child). Perhaps you are not old enough to understand parenthood, i don't know. Yes it is abuse. It's scientifically proven to be vastly inferior to other teaching methods. I do not know why you want to defend you right to hit children so zealously. But it might be time to start looking for alternative methods. Inferior to what methods that a 3 year old can understand? Do tell wise masters (directed at doko100 as well).....or continue attacking me. Also I said that "I CAN" not that "I DO." But as a parent I am well within my rights to not have you "meddle" with how I raise my children, unless there is a compelling governmental interest to withhold my "right to be let alone."(child abuse would fall in that category) So check yourself when you start saying that I am what is holding society back, and pull your head out of the sand and look around at a wider world that exists beyond your 20 inch computer monitor. Just let me tell you this. If I ever saw you (or anyone else) spank your(their) child I would not wait a single second to kick your ass. What exactly makes you think that adults have a better understanding of what is morally acceptable than children do? Yes, children make mistakes, but adults are far worse than that. You know what our understanding of morality is? We send people to jail for 5 years for downloading illgeal coyprighted media on the one hand, but on the other hand we let some rapists get away with alot less than that. You can get a longer jail sentence for illegally downloading copyrighted materials than actually assaulting other people in some countries. Our understanding of morality is retarded. Our law system is retarded. Downloading copyrighted material SHOULD NOT be a crime, yes you in a sense steal from other people, but you steal from people who have too much money anyway. Hollywood is full of shit, they are far richer than anyone who watches their movies and no actor should earn 20 million per movie, it's absurd, actors have no value for society. The really important people are doctors, logicians, or just normal labourers, they keep this society alive. Movie stars are worthless people they don't help humanity survive, yet they are full of themselves and have alot more money than people who are actually useful and who help our society. This is how retarded our society is, we give money to people who don't even deserve it and we put people in jail who refuse to do so. We put some of them to jail for more than a few years and we let people who actually commit physical crimes get away with far less than that. This my friend, is how morally absurd our society is.
OMG your not worth even debating with. Your "statements" are so full of holes.
#1. you haven't given me one piece of evidence to show irrefutable evidence that corporal punishment is inferior to these "other" forms of punishment. and you know what Irrefutable means? I'll help educate you. It means, "impossible to deny or disprove." So me something that I can't possibly deny or disprove and I'll join you on your side of the road.
#2. WTF are you doing talking about copyrighted material? I'm guessing you just downloaded a pirated copy of SC2, pirate all your music, pirate all the books you read (or did your mommy buy your Harry Potter books for you before you could pirate them). You've set your platform up and created your foundation out of sand. Sand is shit compared to concrete as a foundation. Clearly it is ok for you to steal my intellectual property. Oh wait...... the entire world has laws against copyright infringement. OH NOES>>> There goes that non-issue.
#3. why am i still responding to you
#4. Movie stars........ i thought this thread was about child abuse. I was unaware that the thread changed locations and this is a completely unrelated topic. I'll go find it now...
#5. being angry at the world for what they have, and what you don't have doesn't solve anything. Motivate yourself and do something about it.
#6. Adults are in a position to make moral decisions for children because categorically children are less responsible, easily impressed, and many more reasons.
#7. You interfere with my right as a parent to punish my child. I will let you "beat my ass." Then you will spend a good amount of time behind bars for assault and battery (or just assault if you just come swinging and I don't see you). Because assault is against the law. How proud your family will be of you then. Sonnie boy behind bars because he thought he had the right to decide how a parent punished their child. You are either a troll or 13, and angry at your father/step/foster for how you feel he treats(treated) you. When you grow up and get to where I am, and have the responsibility to care for another's life maybe you'll understand.
#8. Back to where you really wanted to "hit me hard" at. Me defending my right to hit my child so adamantly.
NO, you have it wrong. It has nothing to do with physically hitting my child. I will defend my right to raise my child in the best way I see fit. Whether that includes or doesn't include corporal punishment. You are not my spouse, you have zero right to meddle in my family affairs as it regards to how I am raising my children. Unless there is a compelling governmental interest (protect the child from child abuse). In that case the government, police, child services, etc will get involved. Otherwise stick to yourself and your family (your children when you have them). I
#9. no legal system is perfect. If you think there is a perfect system, you've been duped. Not sure why you are attacking the legal system here. Oh your trying to tie it to morality. Don't these scientist agree that children have to be taught right from wrong? Isn't that morality.......
Thanks for the post. Get some education, get some children, get some therapy for anger and blaming the world.
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On November 04 2011 10:09 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 10:06 Geosensation wrote:
I'm getting increasingly disappointed by this whole story. Just came out that she released the video because he threatened to take away her mercedes and cut her off because she dropped out of college with 2 classes remaining to work at a video game store part time. This is nothing more than her getting vengeance on her dad in the most petty and destructive way possible. If she really wanted to just get him help she would have discreetly sent it to the police and judicial review board to investigate but instead she put it on reddit so it could go viral and ruin her entire family. Incredibly short sighted move on her part and pretty manipulative.
She is obviously the victim, I'm not trying to say that she is to blame, it's obviously all his fault. However the manner in which she released the video was not how she should have done it. I thought she was 16?
16 at the time of the video. she is in her 20s now
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Hmmm, it's an interesting point to note that since she was the one taking the video [with the intention of using it later], she knew she would be hit and was probably milking it for all it was worth.
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On November 04 2011 09:57 Rash wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 10:57 Zephirdd wrote:
while I do agree that "physical punishment" isn't as bad as people make it out to be, there are limits and this guy goes over the limits A LOT. It's sickening, actually.
I mean, most of it isn't even about how he was trying to "teach" the girl, it was just "you brought this to yourself", "I'm mad at you", "take it on". It wasn't teaching, it wasn't a lesson, it was pure need to vent on her, the pure need to "show who is in control". There are situations and situations, and this is not a correct situation.
It's even sad that a guy like that is a Judge IMO. I think you've nailed it. I am a father of 2 myself and (I know I'm going to take some heat because of this) I do practice physical punishment some times. But the ESSENCE of punishing your kid is to teach them, educate them, not to release your anger. Sometimes I have to go away and vent before punishing (because shit, they can get you mad!) but the whole purpose of the punishment is lost if you do it in anger. I believe physical, social or mental punishment are valid only if the real consequence of what your son/daughter is doing is way too grave for them to take yet, so you as father face the consequences of whatever your siblings have done and then give them a lesson that can be managed at their level (imo a slap in the hand and some time on their bedroom is appropriate if they are trying to get their fingers on the electric jack, since the consequences of it are MUCH worse than what they can handle). On the contrary, if they can handle the consequence (you tell a 4yo not to walk barefoot on a very harsh surface cuz she will feel pain, and obviously she ignores you and comes back crying, then the task at hand is to make sure the relation cause-effect they just experienced is comprehended). It is really concerning that a Judge (a.k.a a person in which judgement we trust) can allow himself to take important decisions in anger. If her daughter got emotionally scarred because of this, imagine how an innocent man sent to prison would be, just because the judge was having "a bad day".
A voice of reason. One father to another Thank you.
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On November 04 2011 10:09 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 10:06 Geosensation wrote:
I'm getting increasingly disappointed by this whole story. Just came out that she released the video because he threatened to take away her mercedes and cut her off because she dropped out of college with 2 classes remaining to work at a video game store part time. This is nothing more than her getting vengeance on her dad in the most petty and destructive way possible. If she really wanted to just get him help she would have discreetly sent it to the police and judicial review board to investigate but instead she put it on reddit so it could go viral and ruin her entire family. Incredibly short sighted move on her part and pretty manipulative.
She is obviously the victim, I'm not trying to say that she is to blame, it's obviously all his fault. However the manner in which she released the video was not how she should have done it. I thought she was 16?
16 when the video was shot, but shes about 23 now
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On November 04 2011 10:09 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 10:06 Geosensation wrote:
I'm getting increasingly disappointed by this whole story. Just came out that she released the video because he threatened to take away her mercedes and cut her off because she dropped out of college with 2 classes remaining to work at a video game store part time. This is nothing more than her getting vengeance on her dad in the most petty and destructive way possible. If she really wanted to just get him help she would have discreetly sent it to the police and judicial review board to investigate but instead she put it on reddit so it could go viral and ruin her entire family. Incredibly short sighted move on her part and pretty manipulative.
She is obviously the victim, I'm not trying to say that she is to blame, it's obviously all his fault. However the manner in which she released the video was not how she should have done it. I thought she was 16?
Wait, if this is true, than that's a terrible attitude for a child/human being.
1. It means that the punishment was ok for her, as part of the family unit. She used the video as a bargaining chip! That was all the [punishment or abuse] was to her!
2. She just knew that many internet posters and other watchers would NOT be ok with it. Strengthens my point that she was probably milking it in the video.
Dad's messed up, but so is the kid, and I'm not about to blame the dad entirely for that, as many here will be doing.
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On November 04 2011 07:38 Apollo_Shards wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 07:20 NoobSkills wrote:On November 04 2011 05:46 Brosaurus wrote:
Why is everyone getting worked up. I know it's hard to understand, but it's a cultural thing. I seriously don't see anything wrong with that video. I understand how someone who never experienced that would be upset but based on that video, it's not that bad. Now he may be a terrible parent, but I don't think that video is enough proof.
On another note, the reason she uploaded the video now was because her father wanted her car back. Probably the one HE bought her. She threatened to upload the video and he didn't care, because he didn't think it was bad.
Lastly, why are people lashing out against corporal punishment but then turning around and saying that the father should get the shit kicked out of him. I find that weird. Human Sacrifice is a "cultural thing" too. Sup? Edit: Also I don't see how getting rid of the computer and I actually mean getting rid of it isn't the actual solution. Being without something because you don't know how to use it properly teaches more of a lesson than a beating. Like taking a way a child's car for speeding, making them then walk to school. Now, the child thinks "This is much harder without Y I should probably use Y properly." Perhaps writing out her 16 page English paper a few times because of the rough draft process might make her think twice before pirating again. So is female mutilation. But hey, it's culture!
But it's not American culture, so it MUST be wrong. Right?
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On November 04 2011 08:18 Hynda wrote:
So why don't we do this to adults, do something I don't like and I get to punch you in the face?
To clarify, I'm not making fun of it but why do people that think it's okey to beat kids seldome beat adults.
Do we not? I don't think going to prison is just about sitting until your sentence is over. Justice is setup in much the same way as physical punishment does (actually, once a person is in prison, is MUCH MUCH more likely to be abused rather than solely punished) and yes, quite often they got abused until permanent trauma (physical, psychological or both) is inevitable). I think we do use the same setup at all levels. Of course this does not justify abuse outside of prison as much as it does it inside, just pointing out that abusing adults is also considered "standard" once they are identified as offenders. Ideally any kind of physical abuse should be baned from society, but I imagine the reasons behind this are more practical than idealist. Sad about that.
Edit: Word selection
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On November 04 2011 09:23 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 08:45 Scrimpton wrote:she saved it for 7 years. if she was rele worried, send it to police on the day.. but she rather be manipulative bitch and release on election time... hmmm.. and we all fall for it this is the most fucking ignorant thing I have read in the last few months how you have avoided a ban for this I don't know
He avoided a ban by posting this under 80 x however many posts are on 1 page. I'm almost positive the mods haven't read every single post on this thread.
and I agree 100% with you. This guy who posted "and we all fall for it" is a fucking asshole that will also burn in hell because he doesn't understand the horror that the daughter went through.
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EPT
