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its all about moderation. not too much, not too little.
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On November 04 2011 10:11 metbull wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 08:50 doko100 wrote:On November 04 2011 08:27 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 08:13 Paperplane wrote:On November 04 2011 08:10 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 08:02 Paperplane wrote:On November 04 2011 07:36 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 07:06 ampson wrote:
It seems like half the people in this thread didn't read the whole OP and article. She was punished for pirating, which IS a crime, NOT using the internet. And while the father did undoubtedly go too far for beating her for the length of time that he did, and said some things that I'm sure he regrets, corporal punishment is not a bad thing, he just went too far with it. I agree the OP is wrong in part not in whole. According the reports she was caught pirating some form of software that wasn't legally available for purchase. But you have to be on the internet to download something. Yeah its a bit misleading; but if someone does 1 google search they will learn what the situation is. So if the op was changed to reflect she was beat for pirating does that make the father justified in doing what he did then? Ok, so now if I catch you speeding on your way to work.... I now get to pull you out of your car and beat the shit out of you? I say you, but I don't direct it at you ampson, but its a collective "you." Does the fact that you broke the law justify your punishment? No. Also, how many times must a person go "too far with it" for it to be criminal? You've got to have a serious answer for me somewhere in there. Also I am for corporal punishment. But I am against Child Abuse. I'm sorry but this does not compute. Sure it does. I can punish my 3 year old with a swat on the butt. I cannot pick her up, throw her on the bed, then hit her repeatedly with my belt, and scream into her face that she doesn't belong in my house. Corporal punishment is NOT Abuse. Because corporal punishment (as i was taught) serves a defined goal to deter a prohibited action for the offender(the child). While Abuse serves no clearly defined goal to deter a prohibited action of the offender (the child). Perhaps you are not old enough to understand parenthood, i don't know. Yes it is abuse. It's scientifically proven to be vastly inferior to other teaching methods. I do not know why you want to defend you right to hit children so zealously. But it might be time to start looking for alternative methods. Inferior to what methods that a 3 year old can understand? Do tell wise masters (directed at doko100 as well).....or continue attacking me. Also I said that "I CAN" not that "I DO." But as a parent I am well within my rights to not have you "meddle" with how I raise my children, unless there is a compelling governmental interest to withhold my "right to be let alone."(child abuse would fall in that category) So check yourself when you start saying that I am what is holding society back, and pull your head out of the sand and look around at a wider world that exists beyond your 20 inch computer monitor. Just let me tell you this. If I ever saw you (or anyone else) spank your(their) child I would not wait a single second to kick your ass. What exactly makes you think that adults have a better understanding of what is morally acceptable than children do? Yes, children make mistakes, but adults are far worse than that. You know what our understanding of morality is? We send people to jail for 5 years for downloading illgeal coyprighted media on the one hand, but on the other hand we let some rapists get away with alot less than that. You can get a longer jail sentence for illegally downloading copyrighted materials than actually assaulting other people in some countries. Our understanding of morality is retarded. Our law system is retarded. Downloading copyrighted material SHOULD NOT be a crime, yes you in a sense steal from other people, but you steal from people who have too much money anyway. Hollywood is full of shit, they are far richer than anyone who watches their movies and no actor should earn 20 million per movie, it's absurd, actors have no value for society. The really important people are doctors, logicians, or just normal labourers, they keep this society alive. Movie stars are worthless people they don't help humanity survive, yet they are full of themselves and have alot more money than people who are actually useful and who help our society. This is how retarded our society is, we give money to people who don't even deserve it and we put people in jail who refuse to do so. We put some of them to jail for more than a few years and we let people who actually commit physical crimes get away with far less than that. This my friend, is how morally absurd our society is. OMG your not worth even debating with. Your "statements" are so full of holes. #1. you haven't given me one piece of evidence to show irrefutable evidence that corporal punishment is inferior to these "other" forms of punishment. and you know what Irrefutable means? I'll help educate you. It means, "impossible to deny or disprove." So me something that I can't possibly deny or disprove and I'll join you on your side of the road. #2. WTF are you doing talking about copyrighted material? I'm guessing you just downloaded a pirated copy of SC2, pirate all your music, pirate all the books you read (or did your mommy buy your Harry Potter books for you before you could pirate them). You've set your platform up and created your foundation out of sand. Sand is shit compared to concrete as a foundation. Clearly it is ok for you to steal my intellectual property. Oh wait...... the entire world has laws against copyright infringement. OH NOES>>> There goes that non-issue. #3. why am i still responding to you #4. Movie stars........ i thought this thread was about child abuse. I was unaware that the thread changed locations and this is a completely unrelated topic. I'll go find it now... #5. being angry at the world for what they have, and what you don't have doesn't solve anything. Motivate yourself and do something about it. #6. Adults are in a position to make moral decisions for children because categorically children are less responsible, easily impressed, and many more reasons. #7. You interfere with my right as a parent to punish my child. I will let you "beat my ass." Then you will spend a good amount of time behind bars for assault and battery (or just assault if you just come swinging and I don't see you). Because assault is against the law. How proud your family will be of you then. Sonnie boy behind bars because he thought he had the right to decide how a parent punished their child. You are either a troll or 13, and angry at your father/step/foster for how you feel he treats(treated) you. When you grow up and get to where I am, and have the responsibility to care for another's life maybe you'll understand. #8. Back to where you really wanted to "hit me hard" at. Me defending my right to hit my child so adamantly. NO, you have it wrong. It has nothing to do with physically hitting my child. I will defend my right to raise my child in the best way I see fit. Whether that includes or doesn't include corporal punishment. You are not my spouse, you have zero right to meddle in my family affairs as it regards to how I am raising my children. Unless there is a compelling governmental interest (protect the child from child abuse). In that case the government, police, child services, etc will get involved. Otherwise stick to yourself and your family (your children when you have them). I #9. no legal system is perfect. If you think there is a perfect system, you've been duped. Not sure why you are attacking the legal system here. Oh your trying to tie it to morality. Don't these scientist agree that children have to be taught right from wrong? Isn't that morality....... Thanks for the post. Get some education, get some children, get some therapy for anger and blaming the world.
People like you make me a sad panda.
1# There has been evidence throughout the thread that shows that corporal punishment is less effective has has a chance to do harm. So why the fuck would you use a method that can only hope to be at par and not exceed and can harm the child... Even if someone does provide evidence you will just claim it interferes with your right to raise your child, culture and religion.
2# It's against the law so it is therefore bad. This just makes me want to die inside. Woman couldn't vote it's against the law this is bad!! A woman needs to have acid thrown on her if she disgraces her family it is legal therefore okay. Use your fucking brain instead of just hiding behind laws that may or may not be moral.
3# Because your a upset parent who is being told he is wrong with scientific evidence. Let me guess you also thing evolution is wrong too and that creationism is the shit.
4# It was an example of how fucked up morality regarding the legal system is I don't think he realized how badly you would need to be spoon fed these things since most people can make connections.
5# Agree. He does have a good point though. Why does some one who does literally nothing for society other than look pretty make so much more than someone who saves countless lives?
6# Agree but why do you have to hit them to make a point. Most of the European countries have done this for a long time and they are not in a state of anarchy and chaos.
7#" Hey let me not give my child a blood transfusion because it is against my religion" Religious Person. "Go fuck yourself" The government when it intervenes for the child's health and safety.
8# Where is the line drawn from child abuse/punishment? If Corporal punishment can cause harm to the child does it not fall under the abuse category?
9# lolwut? What are you trying to say here?
You claim he is 13 and being beaten by his parents with zero evidence at all. You resorted to name calling.
and yet you call him immature. Give your head a shake and grow up.
I have never been hit by my parents once and I am in post secondary working a full time job working my ass off. Like the masses of people in Europe and all over North America and elsewhere.
You have made me lose so much faith in humanity. Your a sad excuse for a father and a human being. Try to not rely on hitting a child to make a point. Your a full grown man hitting a small boy/girl who is your own blood for fuck sake use your vast knowledge you claim to have at your disposal like so many other parents have been doing.
The fact this is even an argument with some people makes my head spin...
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That video really is cringe-worthy and I'd expect anyone who ever got "disciplined" by their parents to have horrible flashbacks the same way I did. This is pretty much how my mom dealt with me until I was 7 years old, until I threatened her to kill her while she slept. Of course, I wouldn't have, but I would have loved to cause her as much pain as she did to me.
If anything it made me more independent/self sufficient, and taught me not to rely on my family for anything.
I can only sympathize with the girl, and hope she has finally moved on from that torment.
Any updates on the investigation?
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On November 04 2011 10:58 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
That video really is cringe-worthy and I'd expect anyone who ever got "disciplined" by their parents to have horrible flashbacks the same way I did. This is pretty much how my mom dealt with me until I was 7 years old, until I threatened her to kill her while she slept. Of course, I wouldn't have, but I would have loved to cause her as much pain as she did to me.
If anything it made me more independent/self sufficient, and taught me not to rely on my family for anything.
I can only sympathize with the girl, and hope she has finally moved on from that torment.
Any updates on the investigation?
Yeah he can't be charged with a crime because in Texas 16 is not a child, so if it was any crime it was aggravated assault, and the statute of limitations has run on those charges. So I think now he's just under investigation and is at risk of losing his bench, reputation, maybe kicked off the bar. I doubt anything past losing his bench is possible. And he will probably only lose that because the county will want to save face.
No word yet if she will get to keep her mercedes and if he will keep financially supporting her.
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This is so sick, I literally ran to the bathroom, thinking I was going to be sick. HOW on EARTH can this still exist?? Are we not 10 years into the 21st century?? Not only should this man be stripped of any license he's been given to judge other people, he should be judged himself and sentenced to a lengthy prison term. Prisoners aren't to fond of child beaters.
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On November 04 2011 11:04 Geosensation wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 10:58 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
That video really is cringe-worthy and I'd expect anyone who ever got "disciplined" by their parents to have horrible flashbacks the same way I did. This is pretty much how my mom dealt with me until I was 7 years old, until I threatened her to kill her while she slept. Of course, I wouldn't have, but I would have loved to cause her as much pain as she did to me.
If anything it made me more independent/self sufficient, and taught me not to rely on my family for anything.
I can only sympathize with the girl, and hope she has finally moved on from that torment.
Any updates on the investigation? Yeah he can't be charged with a crime because in Texas 16 is not a child, so if it was any crime it was aggravated assault, and the statute of limitations has run on those charges. So I think now he's just under investigation and is at risk of losing his bench, reputation, maybe kicked off the bar. I doubt anything past losing his bench is possible. And he will probably only lose that because the county will want to save face. No word yet if she will get to keep her mercedes and if he will keep financially supporting her.
I see... Yeah I figured he was only in risk of losing his job as a result of a political move. Man, the statute of limitations kinda sucks when you have compelling evidence like this video.
I wouldn't expect him to keep supporting her, especially if he loses his job over this, but she's a grown girl now; she should be able to take care of herself.
I could, however, see her winning a civil suit compelling him to pay for her psychological treatment (if she does choose to get it).
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I think it's time to put this into perspective
http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/03/justice/texas-video-beating/index.html?&hpt=hp_c1
"If the public must know, just prior to the YouTube upload, a concerned father shared with his 23-year-old daughter that he was unwilling to continue to work hard and be her primary source of financial support, if she was going to simply 'drop out,' and strive to achieve no more in life than to work part-time at a video game store," the judge said in a statement.
Adams, in a statement, said Hillary told him that if he "reduced her financial support, and took away her Mercedes automobile, which her father had provided, he would live to regret it. The post was then uploaded."
"Perhaps Hillary Adams should explain, if she felt she was raised by a tyrannical father, a claim shared with no one until five years after adulthood, why she insisted on living with her father and not her mother from the time of her parent's divorce, until she moved out on her own," William Adams said. "Hillary Adams has been living on her own for some time, and has been an adult for almost six years, so why post the video in late 2011?"
"She's mad because I've ordered her to bring the car back, in a nutshell, but yeah, that's me. I lost my temper," Adams told the station. "Her mother was there, she wasn't hurt ... it was a long time ago ... I really don't want to get into this right now because as you can see my life's been made very difficult over this child."
Adams continued: "In my mind I have not done anything wrong other than discipline my child when she was caught stealing. I did lose my temper, I've apologized. It looks worse than it is."
I'm not saying the Judge is right. But honestly, stop looking at one side of this and instantly berating the father.
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Incredibly fucked up. From all the places I have seen this appearing, it seems like this is getting the press attention it deserves.
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On November 04 2011 10:57 tokicheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 10:11 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 08:50 doko100 wrote:On November 04 2011 08:27 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 08:13 Paperplane wrote:On November 04 2011 08:10 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 08:02 Paperplane wrote:On November 04 2011 07:36 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 07:06 ampson wrote:
It seems like half the people in this thread didn't read the whole OP and article. She was punished for pirating, which IS a crime, NOT using the internet. And while the father did undoubtedly go too far for beating her for the length of time that he did, and said some things that I'm sure he regrets, corporal punishment is not a bad thing, he just went too far with it. I agree the OP is wrong in part not in whole. According the reports she was caught pirating some form of software that wasn't legally available for purchase. But you have to be on the internet to download something. Yeah its a bit misleading; but if someone does 1 google search they will learn what the situation is. So if the op was changed to reflect she was beat for pirating does that make the father justified in doing what he did then? Ok, so now if I catch you speeding on your way to work.... I now get to pull you out of your car and beat the shit out of you? I say you, but I don't direct it at you ampson, but its a collective "you." Does the fact that you broke the law justify your punishment? No. Also, how many times must a person go "too far with it" for it to be criminal? You've got to have a serious answer for me somewhere in there. Also I am for corporal punishment. But I am against Child Abuse. I'm sorry but this does not compute. Sure it does. I can punish my 3 year old with a swat on the butt. I cannot pick her up, throw her on the bed, then hit her repeatedly with my belt, and scream into her face that she doesn't belong in my house. Corporal punishment is NOT Abuse. Because corporal punishment (as i was taught) serves a defined goal to deter a prohibited action for the offender(the child). While Abuse serves no clearly defined goal to deter a prohibited action of the offender (the child). Perhaps you are not old enough to understand parenthood, i don't know. Yes it is abuse. It's scientifically proven to be vastly inferior to other teaching methods. I do not know why you want to defend you right to hit children so zealously. But it might be time to start looking for alternative methods. Inferior to what methods that a 3 year old can understand? Do tell wise masters (directed at doko100 as well).....or continue attacking me. Also I said that "I CAN" not that "I DO." But as a parent I am well within my rights to not have you "meddle" with how I raise my children, unless there is a compelling governmental interest to withhold my "right to be let alone."(child abuse would fall in that category) So check yourself when you start saying that I am what is holding society back, and pull your head out of the sand and look around at a wider world that exists beyond your 20 inch computer monitor. Just let me tell you this. If I ever saw you (or anyone else) spank your(their) child I would not wait a single second to kick your ass. What exactly makes you think that adults have a better understanding of what is morally acceptable than children do? Yes, children make mistakes, but adults are far worse than that. You know what our understanding of morality is? We send people to jail for 5 years for downloading illgeal coyprighted media on the one hand, but on the other hand we let some rapists get away with alot less than that. You can get a longer jail sentence for illegally downloading copyrighted materials than actually assaulting other people in some countries. Our understanding of morality is retarded. Our law system is retarded. Downloading copyrighted material SHOULD NOT be a crime, yes you in a sense steal from other people, but you steal from people who have too much money anyway. Hollywood is full of shit, they are far richer than anyone who watches their movies and no actor should earn 20 million per movie, it's absurd, actors have no value for society. The really important people are doctors, logicians, or just normal labourers, they keep this society alive. Movie stars are worthless people they don't help humanity survive, yet they are full of themselves and have alot more money than people who are actually useful and who help our society. This is how retarded our society is, we give money to people who don't even deserve it and we put people in jail who refuse to do so. We put some of them to jail for more than a few years and we let people who actually commit physical crimes get away with far less than that. This my friend, is how morally absurd our society is. OMG your not worth even debating with. Your "statements" are so full of holes. #1. you haven't given me one piece of evidence to show irrefutable evidence that corporal punishment is inferior to these "other" forms of punishment. and you know what Irrefutable means? I'll help educate you. It means, "impossible to deny or disprove." So me something that I can't possibly deny or disprove and I'll join you on your side of the road. #2. WTF are you doing talking about copyrighted material? I'm guessing you just downloaded a pirated copy of SC2, pirate all your music, pirate all the books you read (or did your mommy buy your Harry Potter books for you before you could pirate them). You've set your platform up and created your foundation out of sand. Sand is shit compared to concrete as a foundation. Clearly it is ok for you to steal my intellectual property. Oh wait...... the entire world has laws against copyright infringement. OH NOES>>> There goes that non-issue. #3. why am i still responding to you #4. Movie stars........ i thought this thread was about child abuse. I was unaware that the thread changed locations and this is a completely unrelated topic. I'll go find it now... #5. being angry at the world for what they have, and what you don't have doesn't solve anything. Motivate yourself and do something about it. #6. Adults are in a position to make moral decisions for children because categorically children are less responsible, easily impressed, and many more reasons. #7. You interfere with my right as a parent to punish my child. I will let you "beat my ass." Then you will spend a good amount of time behind bars for assault and battery (or just assault if you just come swinging and I don't see you). Because assault is against the law. How proud your family will be of you then. Sonnie boy behind bars because he thought he had the right to decide how a parent punished their child. You are either a troll or 13, and angry at your father/step/foster for how you feel he treats(treated) you. When you grow up and get to where I am, and have the responsibility to care for another's life maybe you'll understand. #8. Back to where you really wanted to "hit me hard" at. Me defending my right to hit my child so adamantly. NO, you have it wrong. It has nothing to do with physically hitting my child. I will defend my right to raise my child in the best way I see fit. Whether that includes or doesn't include corporal punishment. You are not my spouse, you have zero right to meddle in my family affairs as it regards to how I am raising my children. Unless there is a compelling governmental interest (protect the child from child abuse). In that case the government, police, child services, etc will get involved. Otherwise stick to yourself and your family (your children when you have them). I #9. no legal system is perfect. If you think there is a perfect system, you've been duped. Not sure why you are attacking the legal system here. Oh your trying to tie it to morality. Don't these scientist agree that children have to be taught right from wrong? Isn't that morality....... Thanks for the post. Get some education, get some children, get some therapy for anger and blaming the world. People like you make me a sad panda. 1# There has been evidence throughout the thread that shows that corporal punishment is less effective has has a chance to do harm. So why the fuck would you use a method that can only hope to be at par and not exceed and can harm the child... Even if someone does provide evidence you will just claim it interferes with your right to raise your child, culture and religion. 2# It's against the law so it is therefore bad. This just makes me want to die inside. Woman couldn't vote it's against the law this is bad!! A woman needs to have acid thrown on her if she disgraces her family it is legal therefore okay. Use your fucking brain instead of just hiding behind laws that may or may not be moral. 3# Because your a upset parent who is being told he is wrong with scientific evidence. Let me guess you also thing evolution is wrong too and that creationism is the shit. 4# It was an example of how fucked up morality regarding the legal system is I don't think he realized how badly you would need to be spoon fed these things since most people can make connections. 5# Agree. He does have a good point though. Why does some one who does literally nothing for society other than look pretty make so much more than someone who saves countless lives? 6# Agree but why do you have to hit them to make a point. Most of the European countries have done this for a long time and they are not in a state of anarchy and chaos. 7#" Hey let me not give my child a blood transfusion because it is against my religion" Religious Person. "Go fuck yourself" The government when it intervenes for the child's health and safety. 8# Where is the line drawn from child abuse/punishment? If Corporal punishment can cause harm to the child does it not fall under the abuse category? 9# lolwut? What are you trying to say here? You claim he is 13 and being beaten by his parents with zero evidence at all. You resorted to name calling. and yet you call him immature. Give your head a shake and grow up. I have never been hit by my parents once and I am in post secondary working a full time job working my ass off. Like the masses of people in Europe and all over North America and elsewhere. The stereotype of people who hit kids (in my experience) is the stupid, low income, abusive, dead beat dad who only leads to another generation of himself through his own kids. This has held true through most of my school years. Kids who got hit ended up getting into trouble with the law, dropping out of school, getting knocked up, killing someone, and just generally being useless to society. Sure the odd one or two didn't turn out bad and did something with themselves but when a good portion is fucked up from the practice why would anyone continue it. You have made me lose so much faith in humanity. Your a sad excuse for a father and a human being. Try to not rely on hitting a child to make a point. Your a full grown man hitting a small boy/girl who is your own blood for fuck sake use your vast knowledge you claim to have at your disposal like so many other parents have been doing. The fact this is even an argument with some people makes my head spin...
Not sure if you intended your little anecdote to be ironic or not given your position, but correlation doesn't equal causation, my friend... I'd wager that these deadbeats you're describing turn out to be deadbeats because their terrible parents failed to care, support and educate them, rather than simply the fact that they were smacked as children... It's a reflection of the socioeconomic backgrounds of these people... Which is a completely different issue..
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On November 04 2011 11:41 Candadar wrote:I think it's time to put this into perspective http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/03/justice/texas-video-beating/index.html?&hpt=hp_c1Show nested quote +"If the public must know, just prior to the YouTube upload, a concerned father shared with his 23-year-old daughter that he was unwilling to continue to work hard and be her primary source of financial support, if she was going to simply 'drop out,' and strive to achieve no more in life than to work part-time at a video game store," the judge said in a statement.
Adams, in a statement, said Hillary told him that if he "reduced her financial support, and took away her Mercedes automobile, which her father had provided, he would live to regret it. The post was then uploaded." Show nested quote +"Perhaps Hillary Adams should explain, if she felt she was raised by a tyrannical father, a claim shared with no one until five years after adulthood, why she insisted on living with her father and not her mother from the time of her parent's divorce, until she moved out on her own," William Adams said. "Hillary Adams has been living on her own for some time, and has been an adult for almost six years, so why post the video in late 2011?" Show nested quote +"She's mad because I've ordered her to bring the car back, in a nutshell, but yeah, that's me. I lost my temper," Adams told the station. "Her mother was there, she wasn't hurt ... it was a long time ago ... I really don't want to get into this right now because as you can see my life's been made very difficult over this child."
Adams continued: "In my mind I have not done anything wrong other than discipline my child when she was caught stealing. I did lose my temper, I've apologized. It looks worse than it is." I'm not saying the Judge is right. But honestly, stop looking at one side of this and instantly berating the father.
It is an unfortunate chain of events. Though I'm sure most people who could get over what they say in the video were capable of coming to a conclusion similar to this. Just the delaying of the video for all these years and now being an adult. Afraid of what the people would think if she released it sooner is a bit odd. Certainly she would have been able to get proper help after releasing it, but hovering it over her fathers head as a blackmail is just terrible.
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On November 04 2011 11:45 Brett wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 10:57 tokicheese wrote:On November 04 2011 10:11 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 08:50 doko100 wrote:On November 04 2011 08:27 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 08:13 Paperplane wrote:On November 04 2011 08:10 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 08:02 Paperplane wrote:On November 04 2011 07:36 metbull wrote:On November 04 2011 07:06 ampson wrote:
It seems like half the people in this thread didn't read the whole OP and article. She was punished for pirating, which IS a crime, NOT using the internet. And while the father did undoubtedly go too far for beating her for the length of time that he did, and said some things that I'm sure he regrets, corporal punishment is not a bad thing, he just went too far with it. I agree the OP is wrong in part not in whole. According the reports she was caught pirating some form of software that wasn't legally available for purchase. But you have to be on the internet to download something. Yeah its a bit misleading; but if someone does 1 google search they will learn what the situation is. So if the op was changed to reflect she was beat for pirating does that make the father justified in doing what he did then? Ok, so now if I catch you speeding on your way to work.... I now get to pull you out of your car and beat the shit out of you? I say you, but I don't direct it at you ampson, but its a collective "you." Does the fact that you broke the law justify your punishment? No. Also, how many times must a person go "too far with it" for it to be criminal? You've got to have a serious answer for me somewhere in there. Also I am for corporal punishment. But I am against Child Abuse. I'm sorry but this does not compute. Sure it does. I can punish my 3 year old with a swat on the butt. I cannot pick her up, throw her on the bed, then hit her repeatedly with my belt, and scream into her face that she doesn't belong in my house. Corporal punishment is NOT Abuse. Because corporal punishment (as i was taught) serves a defined goal to deter a prohibited action for the offender(the child). While Abuse serves no clearly defined goal to deter a prohibited action of the offender (the child). Perhaps you are not old enough to understand parenthood, i don't know. Yes it is abuse. It's scientifically proven to be vastly inferior to other teaching methods. I do not know why you want to defend you right to hit children so zealously. But it might be time to start looking for alternative methods. Inferior to what methods that a 3 year old can understand? Do tell wise masters (directed at doko100 as well).....or continue attacking me. Also I said that "I CAN" not that "I DO." But as a parent I am well within my rights to not have you "meddle" with how I raise my children, unless there is a compelling governmental interest to withhold my "right to be let alone."(child abuse would fall in that category) So check yourself when you start saying that I am what is holding society back, and pull your head out of the sand and look around at a wider world that exists beyond your 20 inch computer monitor. Just let me tell you this. If I ever saw you (or anyone else) spank your(their) child I would not wait a single second to kick your ass. What exactly makes you think that adults have a better understanding of what is morally acceptable than children do? Yes, children make mistakes, but adults are far worse than that. You know what our understanding of morality is? We send people to jail for 5 years for downloading illgeal coyprighted media on the one hand, but on the other hand we let some rapists get away with alot less than that. You can get a longer jail sentence for illegally downloading copyrighted materials than actually assaulting other people in some countries. Our understanding of morality is retarded. Our law system is retarded. Downloading copyrighted material SHOULD NOT be a crime, yes you in a sense steal from other people, but you steal from people who have too much money anyway. Hollywood is full of shit, they are far richer than anyone who watches their movies and no actor should earn 20 million per movie, it's absurd, actors have no value for society. The really important people are doctors, logicians, or just normal labourers, they keep this society alive. Movie stars are worthless people they don't help humanity survive, yet they are full of themselves and have alot more money than people who are actually useful and who help our society. This is how retarded our society is, we give money to people who don't even deserve it and we put people in jail who refuse to do so. We put some of them to jail for more than a few years and we let people who actually commit physical crimes get away with far less than that. This my friend, is how morally absurd our society is. OMG your not worth even debating with. Your "statements" are so full of holes. #1. you haven't given me one piece of evidence to show irrefutable evidence that corporal punishment is inferior to these "other" forms of punishment. and you know what Irrefutable means? I'll help educate you. It means, "impossible to deny or disprove." So me something that I can't possibly deny or disprove and I'll join you on your side of the road. #2. WTF are you doing talking about copyrighted material? I'm guessing you just downloaded a pirated copy of SC2, pirate all your music, pirate all the books you read (or did your mommy buy your Harry Potter books for you before you could pirate them). You've set your platform up and created your foundation out of sand. Sand is shit compared to concrete as a foundation. Clearly it is ok for you to steal my intellectual property. Oh wait...... the entire world has laws against copyright infringement. OH NOES>>> There goes that non-issue. #3. why am i still responding to you #4. Movie stars........ i thought this thread was about child abuse. I was unaware that the thread changed locations and this is a completely unrelated topic. I'll go find it now... #5. being angry at the world for what they have, and what you don't have doesn't solve anything. Motivate yourself and do something about it. #6. Adults are in a position to make moral decisions for children because categorically children are less responsible, easily impressed, and many more reasons. #7. You interfere with my right as a parent to punish my child. I will let you "beat my ass." Then you will spend a good amount of time behind bars for assault and battery (or just assault if you just come swinging and I don't see you). Because assault is against the law. How proud your family will be of you then. Sonnie boy behind bars because he thought he had the right to decide how a parent punished their child. You are either a troll or 13, and angry at your father/step/foster for how you feel he treats(treated) you. When you grow up and get to where I am, and have the responsibility to care for another's life maybe you'll understand. #8. Back to where you really wanted to "hit me hard" at. Me defending my right to hit my child so adamantly. NO, you have it wrong. It has nothing to do with physically hitting my child. I will defend my right to raise my child in the best way I see fit. Whether that includes or doesn't include corporal punishment. You are not my spouse, you have zero right to meddle in my family affairs as it regards to how I am raising my children. Unless there is a compelling governmental interest (protect the child from child abuse). In that case the government, police, child services, etc will get involved. Otherwise stick to yourself and your family (your children when you have them). I #9. no legal system is perfect. If you think there is a perfect system, you've been duped. Not sure why you are attacking the legal system here. Oh your trying to tie it to morality. Don't these scientist agree that children have to be taught right from wrong? Isn't that morality....... Thanks for the post. Get some education, get some children, get some therapy for anger and blaming the world. People like you make me a sad panda. 1# There has been evidence throughout the thread that shows that corporal punishment is less effective has has a chance to do harm. So why the fuck would you use a method that can only hope to be at par and not exceed and can harm the child... Even if someone does provide evidence you will just claim it interferes with your right to raise your child, culture and religion. 2# It's against the law so it is therefore bad. This just makes me want to die inside. Woman couldn't vote it's against the law this is bad!! A woman needs to have acid thrown on her if she disgraces her family it is legal therefore okay. Use your fucking brain instead of just hiding behind laws that may or may not be moral. 3# Because your a upset parent who is being told he is wrong with scientific evidence. Let me guess you also thing evolution is wrong too and that creationism is the shit. 4# It was an example of how fucked up morality regarding the legal system is I don't think he realized how badly you would need to be spoon fed these things since most people can make connections. 5# Agree. He does have a good point though. Why does some one who does literally nothing for society other than look pretty make so much more than someone who saves countless lives? 6# Agree but why do you have to hit them to make a point. Most of the European countries have done this for a long time and they are not in a state of anarchy and chaos. 7#" Hey let me not give my child a blood transfusion because it is against my religion" Religious Person. "Go fuck yourself" The government when it intervenes for the child's health and safety. 8# Where is the line drawn from child abuse/punishment? If Corporal punishment can cause harm to the child does it not fall under the abuse category? 9# lolwut? What are you trying to say here? You claim he is 13 and being beaten by his parents with zero evidence at all. You resorted to name calling. and yet you call him immature. Give your head a shake and grow up. I have never been hit by my parents once and I am in post secondary working a full time job working my ass off. Like the masses of people in Europe and all over North America and elsewhere. The stereotype of people who hit kids (in my experience) is the stupid, low income, abusive, dead beat dad who only leads to another generation of himself through his own kids. This has held true through most of my school years. Kids who got hit ended up getting into trouble with the law, dropping out of school, getting knocked up, killing someone, and just generally being useless to society. Sure the odd one or two didn't turn out bad and did something with themselves but when a good portion is fucked up from the practice why would anyone continue it. You have made me lose so much faith in humanity. Your a sad excuse for a father and a human being. Try to not rely on hitting a child to make a point. Your a full grown man hitting a small boy/girl who is your own blood for fuck sake use your vast knowledge you claim to have at your disposal like so many other parents have been doing. The fact this is even an argument with some people makes my head spin... Not sure if you intended your little anecdote to be ironic or not given your position, but correlation doesn't equal causation, my friend... I'd wager that these deadbeats you're describing turn out to be deadbeats because their terrible parents failed to care, support and educate them, rather than simply the fact that they were smacked as children... It's a reflection of the socioeconomic backgrounds of these people... Which is a completely different issue..
Valid Point I removed that tid bit.
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That just went beyond teaching a kid a lesson. I understand some people don't like kids playing games, and in most cases games do distract and take responsibility to keep from becoming a problem. I can only imagine what that kid has going through her head. I even wonder what game the parents didn't want her playing so bad. Either way, even those parents who believe a spank is a decent punishment can agree that takes it too far.
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in germany this kind of shit is not legal since 2000, in austria since 1989.
§ 1631 in our laws says "children have a right to be raised and educated in a nonviolent way."
and further: "Corporal punishment, mental injuries and other degrading aactions are prohibited."
if you beat or rack your child, you can go to jail.
children are humans, and they are even more to protect than an adult.
cant believe the us laws are so fucked up, that they cover this.
( source: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__1631.html )
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On November 04 2011 12:17 cari-kira wrote:in germany this kind of shit is not legal since 2000, in austria since 1989. § 1631 in our laws says "children have a right to be raised and educated in a nonviolent way." and further: "Corporal punishment, mental injuries and other degrading aactions are prohibited." if you beat or rack your child, you can go to jail. children are humans, and they are even more to protect than an adult. cant believe the us laws are so fucked up, that they cover this. ( source: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__1631.html )
(Not just you but the similar answers from Austrian and other Europeans)
Is it that hard to believe that your society simply has a different value?
Do you actually think that spanking a child will cause permanent scarring or whatever negative affects you are implying? Or do you just take "research" at face value? (PS - obviously the research you read in your country will be biased towards the "absolutely no corporal punishment ever" viewpoint because that is the prevailing opinion in your country and also the law)
For the most part the people who you are saying this to are reasonable people who love their children, and use restraint, and do not physically or mentally harm their children.
Saying things like "how can we decide between what is ok and what is too much?" Uhh....we can decide because we are human beings and can make judgements based on a situation and what we believe is right. If there is a dispute we turn to the law/community/etc.
I'd like to hear some examples of how you would discipline a 5 year old. Did you know that research suggests that TIME OUT (fucking time out bros) of longer than 1 minute for 5 year olds are severely damaging? I do not think that corporal punishment should be the automatic choice or the only option. Of course these people also use time outs, or they remove privileges (TV/Games/etc), or they talk sternly, but they also are not opposed to a spank.
If you actually believe that 1 time slap on the bottom accompanied by a clear explanation of what was done wrong is going to permanently damage your child...well I know that you are not correct. In the context of a loving relationship and accompanied by proper parenting techniques corporal punishment is totally appropriate. And if you decide not to that's ok too, but all this "WOW YOU BARBARIAN AMERICANS, HOLDING BACK SOCIETY." Seriously, so BM ridiculous.
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cari-kira, let's be honest.
The USA is only a couple hundred years old. Some of our laws are only in their infancy compared to a country that has been around for a LOT longer.
This is the type of shit that changes things for the better. The same kind of things had to occur in every country in order for its laws to evolve to best protect its citizens.
Unfortunate but true.
We'll figure it out eventually. And no, we won't just copy the laws of another country. Haven't you learned by now that humanity doesn't operate in such a fashion.
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On November 04 2011 11:55 Irave wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 11:41 Candadar wrote:I think it's time to put this into perspective http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/03/justice/texas-video-beating/index.html?&hpt=hp_c1"If the public must know, just prior to the YouTube upload, a concerned father shared with his 23-year-old daughter that he was unwilling to continue to work hard and be her primary source of financial support, if she was going to simply 'drop out,' and strive to achieve no more in life than to work part-time at a video game store," the judge said in a statement.
Adams, in a statement, said Hillary told him that if he "reduced her financial support, and took away her Mercedes automobile, which her father had provided, he would live to regret it. The post was then uploaded." "Perhaps Hillary Adams should explain, if she felt she was raised by a tyrannical father, a claim shared with no one until five years after adulthood, why she insisted on living with her father and not her mother from the time of her parent's divorce, until she moved out on her own," William Adams said. "Hillary Adams has been living on her own for some time, and has been an adult for almost six years, so why post the video in late 2011?" "She's mad because I've ordered her to bring the car back, in a nutshell, but yeah, that's me. I lost my temper," Adams told the station. "Her mother was there, she wasn't hurt ... it was a long time ago ... I really don't want to get into this right now because as you can see my life's been made very difficult over this child."
Adams continued: "In my mind I have not done anything wrong other than discipline my child when she was caught stealing. I did lose my temper, I've apologized. It looks worse than it is." I'm not saying the Judge is right. But honestly, stop looking at one side of this and instantly berating the father. It is an unfortunate chain of events. Though I'm sure most people who could get over what they say in the video were capable of coming to a conclusion similar to this. Just the delaying of the video for all these years and now being an adult. Afraid of what the people would think if she released it sooner is a bit odd. Certainly she would have been able to get proper help after releasing it, but hovering it over her fathers head as a blackmail is just terrible.
"but hovering it over her fathers head as a blackmail is just terrible",
Incorrect. If it was Blackmail, It would be like her threatening to release the video to the public unless she was given some kind of benefit( like a stack of money).
Her statement said she snapped one day after an angry phone call with her father. Thus it was a revenge action.
"Afraid of what the people would think if she released it sooner is a bit odd." - This assuming you know why she waited. It might of been to protect also her mother. Or just the fear of what would happen to her, had she still be living under her fathers house at the time.
God, I'm Mr.Semantics at times. I shouldn't even care, it's Friday and I'm drinking a beer.
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On November 04 2011 12:29 BoX wrote:
cari-kira, let's be honest.
The USA is only a couple hundred years old. Some of our laws are only in their infancy compared to a country that has been around for a LOT longer.
This is the type of shit that changes things for the better. The same kind of things had to occur in every country in order for its laws to evolve to best protect its citizens.
Unfortunate but true.
We'll figure it out eventually. And no, we won't just copy the laws of another country. Haven't you learned by now that humanity doesn't operate in such a fashion.
Depending on how you're counting America is older than Germany, Italy, and France...just putting that out there.
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Bigtony, if you want to count GB as part of America, then you've got a whole new thing coming. The USA was founded by colonists from another country. We didn't take their collective knowledge and written history with us, bro.
If any of you is intelligent and enlightened enough to write a set of laws that should be put into effect immediately, then please do so. Otherwise, the evolution of laws will continue its course until the weak and ineffective are eliminated and replaced with superior ones.
This of course means that idiotic laws/exceptions will remain until something significant can highlight its inadequacies. Shrug. This is the darker side of how the "system" seems to work. Either that or I'm slightly too intoxicated to be posting. Meh.
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sooo has anything happened to this guy yet?
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On November 04 2011 12:31 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 12:29 BoX wrote:
cari-kira, let's be honest.
The USA is only a couple hundred years old. Some of our laws are only in their infancy compared to a country that has been around for a LOT longer.
This is the type of shit that changes things for the better. The same kind of things had to occur in every country in order for its laws to evolve to best protect its citizens.
Unfortunate but true.
We'll figure it out eventually. And no, we won't just copy the laws of another country. Haven't you learned by now that humanity doesn't operate in such a fashion. Depending on how you're counting America is older than Germany, Italy, and France...just putting that out there.
I'll regret asking, but care to explain in what manner of counting is the US older.
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EPT
