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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On June 30 2018 04:53 L_Master wrote:
The goal is not to treat people like shit though. I'm playing aggressive because it is fun and there is some sense of making up for lost time...but I don't think that neccessites treating people like disposable or shit.
I'm open to hearing where you're seeing it becoming easy to treat people like shit is, because I may be missing it.
As soon as you juggle too many women at once, I'd say it becomes inevitable you're going to hurt feelings.
On June 30 2018 04:53 L_Master wrote:
Perhaps I had a different idea of what you meant by talked during sex. I was thinking sexual related talk. If you mean just conversations in general I do tend to do that, not during sex, but after.
I meant it like I said it, talking in general. The topic is not of importance.
Regarding your other posts, I think you're devoting way too much time on issues which aren't important for your success at all. You look like you look and you don't have any reason I could come up with to change the way you look. Get another haircut maybe, work on a nice smile, keep your shoulders in mind, especially when standing up. How other dudes look and how you'd rate them is not relevant. I thought we established already it's not looks that are your problem. It's insecurity and you can and will also develop insecurities from looking at 10/10 guys thinking about how to look more like them while realizing you just can't.
Also, most of the attributes you think make these dudes look good pale in comparison to the confidence that surrounds them, which is the sole reason for them being successful with women. The good looks are just a bonus. At least that's what women tell me all the time and I see no reason not to believe them on this.
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Weak heart would be highly unlikely given regular medical check ups, normal levels of pretty much all bloodwork; and the fact that I can ride my bike up mountains faster than all but a small handful of people in my state.
If no fap over time doesn't make a difference, I would probably go this route, it's a good suggestion.
Aren't cyclists known for having ED issues because they compress the arteries leading to the penis on their bicycle seat all the time?
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Have you considered that you might enjoy sex a lot more if you were having it with the same person consistently, getting her to know what you like, and viceversa?
I'm not, in any way, suggesting that one should necessarily have a single partner, or that it's somehow bad to go out with more than one girl while you're not being exclusive 
Just saying that sometimes intimacy comes from knowing each other very well, also physically and sexually, and that can lead to great sex (you're also more comfortable with someone that knows you well physically)
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On June 29 2018 13:23 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2018 12:38 geokilla wrote:
You guys get so many Tinder matches... I literally have 0... Fuck If you're comfortable enough to, post your Tinder pics. Could be looks...but could easily be pics that make you look bad.
Here's my profile and photos on Coffee Meets Bagel. Probably one of the better photos I have lol...
https://imgur.com/a/FSK3RRh
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Like some guy complained earlier, some girls are just pain the ass to talk to. Cool photos but not revealing much, no description and short replies... I guess I could have used bloodwhore's random sentence idea but then what, it's the same. :D
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On June 30 2018 15:46 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2018 04:53 L_Master wrote:
The goal is not to treat people like shit though. I'm playing aggressive because it is fun and there is some sense of making up for lost time...but I don't think that neccessites treating people like disposable or shit.
I'm open to hearing where you're seeing it becoming easy to treat people like shit is, because I may be missing it. As soon as you juggle too many women at once, I'd say it becomes inevitable you're going to hurt feelings.
Now that you remind me this is a very good point and well worth keeping in mind. I appreciate the reminder sir
On July 01 2018 02:09 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +Weak heart would be highly unlikely given regular medical check ups, normal levels of pretty much all bloodwork; and the fact that I can ride my bike up mountains faster than all but a small handful of people in my state.
If no fap over time doesn't make a difference, I would probably go this route, it's a good suggestion.
Aren't cyclists known for having ED issues because they compress the arteries leading to the penis on their bicycle seat all the time?
It can be an issue, but I don't *think* it's the cause in my case because I always wake up hard, have no problem getting or staying hard at random times (not just times with intense stimulation either), etc. I think physical ED generally means you cannot/do not get erections at all or cannot stay hard at all.
On July 01 2018 02:27 VHbb wrote:Have you considered that you might enjoy sex a lot more if you were having it with the same person consistently, getting her to know what you like, and viceversa? I'm not, in any way, suggesting that one should necessarily have a single partner, or that it's somehow bad to go out with more than one girl while you're not being exclusive Just saying that sometimes intimacy comes from knowing each other very well, also physically and sexually, and that can lead to great sex (you're also more comfortable with someone that knows you well physically)
I don't doubt for a second you're correct. I cannot imagine that casual sex with someone you don't know that well is on a level well beneath sex with someone you legitimately love, not to mention the benefits of knowing each others body's better.
I guess I'm at a point where I didn't have as much as I wanted to where people often do (aka college phase) and want to improve my confidence/skill in the dating/sex game a bit as well as experience a variety of partners and make sure I don't look back in ten years and feel like I missed out on something.
I think I'll lose interest fairly quickly though, especially given how much the idea of a good relationship appeals to me.
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On July 01 2018 03:54 sc-darkness wrote:
Like some guy complained earlier, some girls are just pain the ass to talk to. Cool photos but not revealing much, no description and short replies... I guess I could have used bloodwhore's random sentence idea but then what, it's the same. :D
If you get short replies it basically means she isn't really that attracted to you/has better options. There isn't much you can do in these situations but realize that was a low quality match. I'm honestly not sure how much it even matters what you say in these cases. They probably weren't salvageable short of mind reading and knowing exactly what to say to the chick to push her triggers.
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On July 01 2018 05:55 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2018 03:54 sc-darkness wrote:
Like some guy complained earlier, some girls are just pain the ass to talk to. Cool photos but not revealing much, no description and short replies... I guess I could have used bloodwhore's random sentence idea but then what, it's the same. :D If you get short replies it basically means she isn't really that attracted to you/has better options. There isn't much you can do in these situations but realize that was a low quality match. I'm honestly not sure how much it even matters what you say in these cases. They probably weren't salvageable short of mind reading and knowing exactly what to say to the chick to push her triggers.
Yeah, I had the same thought. It's just a waste of time on both sides, so she might have just not swiped right in the first place. That's why I said before that it's a real problem that women get too much attention online, so they act like bitches. bloodwhore said that's ok because he rejects them in real life, but you have to get to this point at the very least, in which case you don't really have the problem I'm talking about because they agreed to meet you and actually met you.
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On July 01 2018 03:09 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2018 13:23 L_Master wrote:On June 29 2018 12:38 geokilla wrote:
You guys get so many Tinder matches... I literally have 0... Fuck If you're comfortable enough to, post your Tinder pics. Could be looks...but could easily be pics that make you look bad. Here's my profile and photos on Coffee Meets Bagel. Probably one of the better photos I have lol... https://imgur.com/a/FSK3RRh
That picture of you at the dinner table in many ways is good, but imo you look 35+ in that photo. For that reason I wouldn't recommend it.
To be brutally honest though, you're more or less the average guy. Certainly not ugly, but not particularly attractive either. It's a downside on dating apps statistically to be Asian, but that probably averages out with your advantage in height.
Unfortunately, dating apps are tough if you're average. In all honesty, your pics aren't bad. I'd say above average compared to what I see. They generally seem like good candids of you having fun and are of okay quality. The problem is the competition is just going to be way higher.
In my opinion your best chance would be to figure out best angles and get a couple high quality, professionally done photos to use where you look as good as you can possible present yourself. From there, the other thing you'd want is to polarize. Your photos are good, fun photos...but they are also non-polarizing. You want photos of you either being incredibly social, think this (+ Show Spoiler +) or doing things that would be particularly dramatic or polarizing.
Reason here is that as an average guy you need to stand out, you'll lose some women with the polarization, but you'll have others who might go "oh damn this guy is pretty fuckin wild I like that" and hopefully throw you up over the threshold to get some matches.
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On July 01 2018 06:05 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2018 05:55 L_Master wrote:On July 01 2018 03:54 sc-darkness wrote:
Like some guy complained earlier, some girls are just pain the ass to talk to. Cool photos but not revealing much, no description and short replies... I guess I could have used bloodwhore's random sentence idea but then what, it's the same. :D If you get short replies it basically means she isn't really that attracted to you/has better options. There isn't much you can do in these situations but realize that was a low quality match. I'm honestly not sure how much it even matters what you say in these cases. They probably weren't salvageable short of mind reading and knowing exactly what to say to the chick to push her triggers. Yeah, I had the same thought. It's just a waste of time on both sides, so she might have just not swiped right in the first place. That's why I said before that it's a real problem that women get too much attention online, so they act like bitches. bloodwhore said that's ok because he rejects them in real life, but you have to get to this point at the very least, in which case you don't really have the problem I'm talking about because they agreed to meet you and actually met you.
She swiped right because there was something about you that intrigued her. You were attractive enough to make it over the threshold. It might be that from her you were just over that threshold and if you didn't somehow hit her at the exact right time with the right stuff it just wasn't going to happen. That's what I mean when I say matches are low quality/don't have good compliance.
I will say I disagree that's acting like a bitch though, and especially disagree that it's acting like a bitch given how so many guys react to women who flat out say they aren't that interested.
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Regarding your other posts, I think you're devoting way too much time on issues which aren't important for your success at all. You look like you look and you don't have any reason I could come up with to change the way you look. Get another haircut maybe, work on a nice smile, keep your shoulders in mind, especially when standing up. How other dudes look and how you'd rate them is not relevant. I thought we established already it's not looks that are your problem. It's insecurity and you can and will also develop insecurities from looking at 10/10 guys thinking about how to look more like them while realizing you just can't.
My interest in looks is academic. I like understanding why the world works the way it does. I'm perfectly confident in how I like and feel very fortunate to look the way I do. I devoted some time and energy to studying this back in school as part of a major project for a class so spent some academic time see where that rabbit hole goes.
And you're right you can't look like a 9/10 if you're an average dude or even an above average dude...sort of a bunch of surgeries that would cost an asinine amount of money and be more likely to ruin your face rather than improve it.
Also, most of the attributes you think make these dudes look good pale in comparison to the confidence that surrounds them, which is the sole reason for them being successful with women. The good looks are just a bonus. At least that's what women tell me all the time and I see no reason not to believe them on this.
This I'm going to take a HARD disagree on. Women may tell you this. They likely believe it themselves. It is fundamentally not remotely true though.
Online
First, a quick treatment of online. Online it makes no difference. Apps are 80%+ about looks and a small portion about conveying either a polarizing attitude or just a social animal awesome one. That can boost you a bit. But, you take can take an average dude with the sickest, most awesome photos you want and he will still get a pitiful fraction of the matches a shitty duck face selfie out 9/10 guy would get.
Simple examples:
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
A good discussion of the situation of average guys on Tinder: + Show Spoiler +
In Person
Now discussing in real life situations I would say looks matter in decreasing order for: Bars/Clubs/Nights Out -> Generally meeting people in social situations -> Social Circle.
In all these situations, confidence/outgoing personality makes a big difference in the range from just below average to maybe what I posted as a 7/10 type guy. I've seen some seriously confidence, incredibly fun dudes that were a little below average consistently attract the interest of some above average girls. Even more so if they were in a setting where they inherently had status. Never the absolute hottest girls, but certainly girls who were quite attractive.
I've seen dudes noticebly better looking than either of us but quite shy or lacking in personality struggle to get women at all, despite obvious initial interest and attention from women that other dudes weren't getting.
It's worth noting that this range encompasses the VAST majority of guys. Easily 90-98% of guys, so the take home message for all of us is that yes, confidence and personality matter. But it matters more and more the further down the scale you go. A below average guy is going to need to be very confident and outgoing to get anywhere even with below average girls. An average guy with average levels of confidence rarely gets anywhere, usually just falling into an occasional girlfriend from social circle somewhat randomly. This is especially seen if you consider social situations, you don't see an average guy "pulling" from a bar or club particularly often unless they are highly confident, fun guys; or perhaps having an extremely aggressive/assholish personality.
As you move to above average you can get away with more.
On Extremes
At the extreme end of the spectrum I also don't think personality means shit.
If you look like the last guy I posted, you can basically do anything but your out of luck. There are some rare examples, but they are edge cases. That guy is never going to have casual sex and will have a very difficult time finding any sort of a relationship, especially without solid levels of wealth or status.
At the final end of the spectrum is when you approach that top tier of attractiveness that starts to constitute 1 in 1000 or rarer type of looks, or around that guy I posted who was a 7. I had a friend in college who looked something like this:
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/u1Lciv7.jpg)
Ridiculously attractive, 6'3" larged framed guy. Hopeless socially. It was incredibly jarring honestly seeing someone that looked like that be that clueless and inhibited socially. Literally would walk into parties/clubs and women would ignore what they were doing to just stare and smile at this guy. Other guys that would be considered hot by any normal person became almost invisible. Would get approached constantly all night told how gorgeous he was and how they would just love to hang out with him. Despite this awkwardness and doing absolutely NOTHING himself, literally every time we went out he was dragged away by some attractive women for sex.
The level of attention was almost absolute. So no, after seeing stuff like that in person I don't think the "personality is what I look for stuff" from women is true. I believe it's true to them intellectually. That's probably what they are looking for conceptually. It's just NOT what the vast majority of women actually respond to, especially when actually confronted by a really, really good looking guy. Admittedly, I can only say this definitively for college aged, 18-25 yr old women, but I've had enough reactions personally looking nowhere near this guy to think that it probably applies to the majority of women across the board.
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On July 01 2018 05:55 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2018 03:54 sc-darkness wrote:
Like some guy complained earlier, some girls are just pain the ass to talk to. Cool photos but not revealing much, no description and short replies... I guess I could have used bloodwhore's random sentence idea but then what, it's the same. :D If you get short replies it basically means she isn't really that attracted to you/has better options. There isn't much you can do in these situations but realize that was a low quality match. I'm honestly not sure how much it even matters what you say in these cases. They probably weren't salvageable short of mind reading and knowing exactly what to say to the chick to push her triggers.
I don't agree. As long as she talks you have a good chance. It's just that short responses are difficult to work with. Most men just aren't capable enough to make them attracted to them.
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On July 01 2018 08:38 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2018 05:55 L_Master wrote:On July 01 2018 03:54 sc-darkness wrote:
Like some guy complained earlier, some girls are just pain the ass to talk to. Cool photos but not revealing much, no description and short replies... I guess I could have used bloodwhore's random sentence idea but then what, it's the same. :D If you get short replies it basically means she isn't really that attracted to you/has better options. There isn't much you can do in these situations but realize that was a low quality match. I'm honestly not sure how much it even matters what you say in these cases. They probably weren't salvageable short of mind reading and knowing exactly what to say to the chick to push her triggers. I don't agree. As long as she talks you have a good chance. It's just that short responses are difficult to work with. Most men just aren't capable enough to make them attracted to them.
A "good chance" is being ridiculously optimistic. Do there exist people that have a good chance (to me this would imply at least a 20% chance of turning it away from one word responses) to turn that around with their text game? Yea probably so. For the average guy, or even the somewhat talented guy the odds are quite low.
The reason you're getting short responses is because she's only just barely interested in you. Especially if they are emotionless short responses. I.e. "ya", or "haha" or god forbid "lol". If you're getting smilies or stuff like that it's usually a good sign. Girls do not give one word, empty responses to a guy she is heavily interested in.
In the case of Tinder, she did swipe you for a reason so you have that going for you. But if you're just above her minimum threshold and she has better matches floating around you may well get those one word responses. You're not wrong in that you can turn them around, but it's not easy and involves doing many things right, oftentimes including getting lucky reading ideal responses for her personality.
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Some updates:
-Majorly fun one today: + Show Spoiler +Went down to hang out at a pool at a local apartment complex and there was this milf there with a killer, tight body. Face was okay but that body was banging and I've always had a thing for milfs. Told her I was 18 right from the start because I was feeling crazy and that was hot for me...super turn on when you can get women to behave in ways that are considered "naughty" because they want you.
At first she was kinda stand offish, but I was pretty confident she found me attractive so I told her we are doing cannonball contest into the pool, which gave me an excuse to take her hand and lead her over to the pool and after that she warmed up quite a bit. Teased her a bit, kept a sexual frame where I kept hinting at bad things I would do to her and how she was fucking hot and I shouldn't want anything with her (cause I'm "18") but that she's so sexy I can't help myself and she got pretty into it. Towards the end I had her sitting in my lap grinding on me and making out.
Tried to pull her back to her place, but she said her son was home. She wouldn't let me lead her there, so I said okay we are going for a walk and just walked with her legs wrapped around me back somewhere behind the apartments. She was grabbing for me so I pushed her up against the wall and fingered her a little until she went down and gave me a fantastic blowjob. Tried one more time to get her to show me her place but she wouldn't do it.
This was legitimately the hottest encounter I've had. Power structure/certain taboo things are a major turn on for me.
-Tinder is pretty optimized for me right now. I think with EffOrt I could find one to two new girls a week, and right now about one per week with somewhat minimal EffOrt. Decent looking girls I'm getting to, decently above average, attractive women. Four girls over the past week and a half, one of whom was really fun:
+ Show Spoiler +Attractive from the front, and literally looked like a total 10/10 goddess from the profile view, to the point it was almost making self conscious. Went to her place. At first she seemed kinda lukewarm/standoffish, not really receptive to much and not really putting a ton into talking; but I just kept dropping some sexual hints and aggressively teasing her. After about 10' we got up for a glass of wine and I put my arm around her on the couch and it was like a total 180. She almost immediately snuggled into me and put her arm on my leg at which point I figured it was probably on. Put my arm around her neck and pulled her in for a kiss and it was just ON. Ended up having some pretty damn good sex. Some hot foreplay and then at least 10 minutes of good fucking with two changes in position without losing too much hardness. Unfortunately, lost it after that and really couldn't keep it back up, but fuck was hot as hell for the first 30 minutes or so.
Absolutely smashed my face against her door leaving though, big old bruise above the eye for a couple days as a result. Somehow managed to play it off fairly cool though lol.
Unfortunately...she is leaving to Cali on Saturday but fuck this chick was both very hot, very fun, and quite interesting to talk to. Had some really cool perspectives on the world from some of the traveling she was done. Might meet up with her again Friday but we shall see. Definitely helped that I was extremely attracted to her, especially from that side view my god.
-The random sex has been fun, and it's helped moved me to a place where I'm getting much more confident in the bedroom even if the erection issue is still an annoyance at the moment I don't feel lost and awkward.
- That said, I'm just about ready to move on. It's fun and oftentimes pretty fucking hot, but it does sort of have a hollowness and same old same old routine to it. Not to mention it's a little too easy to lead girls on + risk of STDs and such, and after thinking about it that's not really what I'm chasing.
-Basically, I'm more interested in females as actual fun people to hang out with and get to know rather than purely sexual playmates. With that in mind, I don't think I'm going to be bringing any girls back to my house directly with Tinder. If I keep using it, I'm going to do all my "dates" out, and if I actually have some interest + chemistry with the girl maybe bring her back to my place. Hopefully this will lead to deeper interactions and more meaningful encounters
-Want to go out more. Just from a knowledge/comfort/social skills standpoint I would like to feel as confident in bars/clubs as I do on say Tinder or with a single interested girl in person. Groups of any kind, though especially ones with guys in them give me huge problems. As do clubs in general because I'm not at ALL comfortable dancing, and I flat out don't know how to handle venues where I can't talk.
-Might also do some cold approaching for the sheer challenge/confidence boosting aspects.
Tl;dr - Got the casual hookup thing pretty figured out on Tinder, got kinda "bored" of it/realized I was more interested in actually getting to know women and form some more meaningful connections, going to focus more on dates out on the town/bars/clubs/social circle stuff and not hunt casual sex exclusively.
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So I've read your discussion with MethodMan.
What do you even want dude? Answer that question and you'll get it eventually.
This is the most important aspect of dating in my opinion. Decide what you want and stick with it. I've been on tinder on and off for like the past 4 years. What you said in your last post is something that I noticed myself. Getting laid is not very difficult once you get into the groove.
My problem has often been that I switch between wanting something serious and going back to just going for the easy sex. And my 'standards' for a girlfriend is far higher than if I just want to fuck someone. So I go for sex, find it hollow and boring. Try to date more seriously, I don't fall in love. Go back to the easy sex for a while. Find it boring. Repeat.
It gets me stuck in a limbo. I think I've finally come to the conclusion that going for casual sex while looking for something serious is not a good idea for me. Makes you lose perspective with what you really want.
Maybe it will work for you to juggle casual sex and serious dating, but it is something worth thinking about at least.
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On July 05 2018 16:44 bloodwhore~ wrote:So I've read your discussion with MethodMan. Show nested quote +What do you even want dude? Answer that question and you'll get it eventually. This is the most important aspect of dating in my opinion. Decide what you want and stick with it. I've been on tinder on and off for like the past 4 years. What you said in your last post is something that I noticed myself. Getting laid is not very difficult once you get into the groove. My problem has often been that I switch between wanting something serious and going back to just going for the easy sex. And my 'standards' for a girlfriend is far higher than if I just want to fuck someone. So I go for sex, find it hollow and boring. Try to date more seriously, I don't fall in love. Go back to the easy sex for a while. Find it boring. Repeat. It gets me stuck in a limbo. I think I've finally come to the conclusion that going for casual sex while looking for something serious is not a good idea for me. Makes you lose perspective with what you really want. Maybe it will work for you to juggle casual sex and serious dating, but it is something worth thinking about at least.
I will keep this in mind. I could see how easy it would be to fall into something like this and how it might distract you. Good thoughts.
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I'd say most of your post falls under PUA instead of 'Dating', L_Master, so be careful of the thread banner 
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On July 05 2018 17:22 Laurens wrote:I'd say most of your post falls under PUA instead of 'Dating', L_Master, so be careful of the thread banner
Seems more like it's under #4. Still might be banned if he keeps doing it though.
Years ago I went on Tinder and other online dating stuff and was absolutely demoralized. I didn't really know why I wasn't succeeding, and thought to myself "I guess I am ugly". Looking back, I think I was probably average or slightly below average: acne, not great dress sense, and REALLY, REALLY bad pictures.
Now, I got it and I'm not immediately getting matches, but jesus, the difference is astounding. I know I'm not unattractive, so I can reason out other things that might be wrong. I could take better pictures, give it a bit more time, take more pictures, etc.
What I'm trying to say is that it's probably true that women find confidence attractive, but it's way more important for how you feel about yourself. You could probably get yourself really down (I have) from stuff like Tinder, Bumble, OKcupid, etc., but if you have a decent view of yourself, you can forget about all of it and shrug it off.
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I'd be very surprised if my posts were considered breaking any rule. Yea I've posted about a few hookups but the goal here is meeting people to date and get more comfortable having sex, which is 100% a life and dating issue. I don't see how that wouldn't be on topic.
I also don't think any of my posts are PUA either. My understanding is that PUA is a bunch of slimy tactics like hitting women with subtle insults, making up stories, etc. with a whole bunch of jargon. My discussions have centered around how to be attractive on Tinder, how to not struggle having sex, and how to generally be attractive to women...no of which should be remotely PUA unless I completely fail to understand what PUA is.
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Haha, auto correct was hilarious. I was wondering why you mention EffOrt here. :D
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/GWJ0zkq.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/6v4i75s.jpg)
