On a Gaming Podcast I listen to they have a deep question each week.
(On a side note the podcast is called 'Painkiller Already' and is more focussed on Call of Duty but they're still hilarious!)
So the question from last week was:
When you die, would you rather:
Be eternally hated, and go down in history as a complete dick head. Hate equal to that of Hitler- to the extent of people learning about you in school because you're so damn evil.
OR
Be forgotten by everyone, family, friends, EVERYONE! Not much more to say really, just gone, forgotten.
So what do you think; Hated or forgotten?
Also me know if you'd like me to post more of these questions.
''well I believe ''sad'' and ''hate'' are emotions that are made trough electrons in our brain and is totally moot as there is nothing sad with death as there is nothing after'' or other highly philosophical entries which really does not bring opinion forward.
And especially don't circumvent the whole question by going.. oh well they will just forget it anyway, that is just being a douche
if I had to choose I would choose haten, just because I am a rebell 8)
The latter? I don't really understand why anyone would choose the former option. Are people really that uncomfortable with the idea of death that they would rather be "immortalized" by a reputation of extreme megadickery?
Everyone will be forgotten eventually. You, your family, your friends, everyone that knew them, everyone that knew any of those people, everyone. Nothing lasts forever. That means you should value those transient things all the more, not try to force them to last longer.
If you believe that information can never be destroyed, then it doesn't matter either way because you're not ever actually forgotten to the actual universe itself.
thousands of years in the future when they have their past-rematerializer it won't matter.
Plus our conception of history and of the present is contingent and ever changing-- even Hitler may not be remembered with hate in 1,000 years.
Definatley Hated because that would mean people would still talk about me and it would cause endless of debates and I would be so hated kids in school would have to do homeworks and have tests about me what i did and i would be featured on documentary on Discovery Channel "History"
I'd say hated for the sole reason that my idea united the world under one rule, one system then set the Earths sights to the stars and setup a massive colonial program that shipped out colonists to the Moon, Mars etc.
That and the massive ships that were required for such missions took their toll when being built in terms of money, material, and massive amount of life which I obtained through forced labor.
On August 14 2011 10:01 jello_biafra wrote: I'd probably prefer to be forgotten since at least you get the chance to be liked while you're alive, when it actually matters.
Also you should probably at least give your own view in the OP...
Nobody said you couldn't be liked while you were alive, just that you'd be hated while you were dead.
On August 14 2011 10:01 jello_biafra wrote: I'd probably prefer to be forgotten since at least you get the chance to be liked while you're alive, when it actually matters.
Also you should probably at least give your own view in the OP...
Nobody said you couldn't be liked while you were alive, just that you'd be hated while you were dead.
So you mean like ordering a holocaust on your deathbed or something for the hell of it?
Hated... People would remember me, and if I'm hated im either a total badass who doesn't give a fuck, or some body who stood up for something I believed in.
Hated, definitely. As far as we can objectively prove, we only live once, and we don't know there's an afterlife either. Given that, it would be rather pitiful to have had zero impact on anyone.
Whenever i see people committing act's of infamy so great that it will be remembered for a long time. I find myself being jealous that they will be remembered and angered that people who are just people do not. Still i would not commit such act's to be engraved into the history books. there is no honor in that.
You can only truly die if you are forgotten or your actions/creations have no effect on the world anymore. If not you still live in a sense.
Hated definitely. To be remembered as the greatest of all evil men to ever exist, to have my very name used as an epithet, to have committed crimes so heinous that they will be remembered forever, and forever more...
ninja edit: I suspect this is a sign of mental illness : /
On August 14 2011 10:08 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: I'd say hated for the sole reason that my idea united the world under one rule, one system then set the Earths sights to the stars and setup a massive colonial program that shipped out colonists to the Moon, Mars etc.
That and the massive ships that were required for such missions took their toll when being built in terms of money, material, and massive amount of life which I obtained through forced labor.
Not if you use convicts... but then you might get sued by Activision...
Do these poll options have any relation to players like combatex and deezer? that's the first thing that came to mind when I saw this thread. I kinda feel bad for people who care about popularity so much they make sure to be hated by all for an ounce of fame =/
It's just a loaded question intended to wake up the inner megalomaniac in people - and it's obviously working on a lot of people, which makes me kinda sad. -_-
On August 14 2011 10:27 Talin wrote: That isn't a deep question at all.
It's just a loaded question intended to wake up the inner megalomaniac in people - and it's obviously working on a lot of people, which makes me kinda sad. -_-
On August 14 2011 10:05 Iranon wrote: The latter? I don't really understand why anyone would choose the former option. Are people really that uncomfortable with the idea of death that they would rather be "immortalized" by a reputation of extreme megadickery?
Everyone will be forgotten eventually. You, your family, your friends, everyone that knew them, everyone that knew any of those people, everyone. Nothing lasts forever. That means you should value those transient things all the more, not try to force them to last longer.
I think we are all meaningless including hitler and his deeds but I believe in couple principles of mine that include not to do such things during my lifetime so forgotten.
I wouldn't even care if i was forgotten during my lifetime so after death who cares..
Being hated for eternity after you die probably means being hated for the rest of your time alive.
What good is being immortal in history if you're also hated every day you're still alive? Living won't be worth living for, and after you're dead, you won't get to enjoy your fake immortality, loved or hated.
Ok- a lot of people are saying that if you're hated after your life then you must have been hated during your life. But to use the example of any dictator: Hitler, Stalin, Pott, hell even Kim Jong-Ill. They may be hated by the world, but they don't realise that because they're so narrow minded.
For example Hitler knew he was hated, but he didn't care because he had all of Germany at his feet worshipping him. Don't read too much into the question, just answer with whatever comes into your mind first...Glad to see the response :D
YOU may be dead, but anyone closely related to you or your family will have their reputations ruined. Think of what effect this could have on your family, if your son grows up to see who you were, than that could effect him.
I am probably taking this too far but whatever actions you have in life do have a ripple effect and being hated would have one too. I'd pick Forgotten.
I don't fear death. However the hated option simply means I did at least one thing in my life that made everyone take note. That to me is infinitely superior to dieing an unknown nobody. Plus hated is purely subjective and my actions may prove to have had merit decades later. Then again, perhaps I am just a dick.
I'm enough of an egotistical asshole to pick hated even though I'm clearly a very caring person (You can check the history of threads I've made to verify). I can't stand the thought of not even my family remembering me.
Hated for eternity? Holy shit that'd mean I did something pretty goddamn despicable.
I have to go with forgotten, because I could never do anything bad enough to be hated for eternity (or at least a really, really long time), even if I wanted to.
pretty easy to answer unless you dont give a shit about your family name. if you dont care that the hitler esque hate that people bear you will affect your loved ones and future generations of your family, then being hated won't matter to you. but if you dont want to make it harder on all your acquaintances...then being forgotten is the answer.
lol people saying they want to be hated to the level of hitler (like the OP said) truly do not understand the ramifications of their actions nor do they comprehend the evil they must commit to be remembered like Hitler. Think folks.
On August 14 2011 10:38 Eknoid4 wrote: Everyone is going to be forgotten one day, even if you are hated for the rest of humanity, so i question the validity of this question.
Hitler was the best leader this world has ever seen. Hating him cannot change the fact that he lead Germany out of economical and cultural ruin into one of the most feared war machines in history.
Hated, I'd become so good at Starcraft no one would ever win, then everyone would hate me. But at least I'd be the best. (This is happening to Flash as we speak. Just wait till he gets bionic arms.)
Basically, would you rather be sAviOr or ZergBong (well before StarCraft 2 anyways). I'd say that being the guy who's forgotten is much better, but that's just because I'd rather not be infamous.
On August 14 2011 11:00 FYRE wrote: Hitler was the best leader this world has ever seen. Hating him cannot change the fact that he lead Germany out of economical and cultural ruin into one of the most feared war machines in history.
It's a wonder what a person with absolute power who uses it in a brutal way can do, isn't it?
Forgotten for certain. As much being remembered is attractive, (I'm sure most people like the notion of being remembered if only in passing.) but being hated for eternity does imply some pretty drastic negative actions.
On August 14 2011 10:45 Stealth_Mel0n wrote: Ok- a lot of people are saying that if you're hated after your life then you must have been hated during your life. But to use the example of any dictator: Hitler, Stalin, Pott, hell even Kim Jong-Ill. They may be hated by the world, but they don't realise that because they're so narrow minded.
For example Hitler knew he was hated, but he didn't care because he had all of Germany at his feet worshipping him. Don't read too much into the question, just answer with whatever comes into your mind first...Glad to see the response :D
The thing is, he might not have cared due to his narrow view, but looking at it objectively he did some pretty rotten stuff. So when it comes to it, I'm not that interested in personal accolades in my lifetime while driving some poor bastards to the dirt and only later being hated for it. Making some small positive contributions to those around me and fading out of memory is enough.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-Beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser gate. All those moments, will be lost in time...like tears in rain Time to die.
That speaks volumes with me, i find it one of the most profound statements i've ever heard, even though it was fictional
On August 14 2011 10:45 Stealth_Mel0n wrote: Ok- a lot of people are saying that if you're hated after your life then you must have been hated during your life. But to use the example of any dictator: Hitler, Stalin, Pott, hell even Kim Jong-Ill. They may be hated by the world, but they don't realise that because they're so narrow minded.
For example Hitler knew he was hated, but he didn't care because he had all of Germany at his feet worshipping him. Don't read too much into the question, just answer with whatever comes into your mind first...Glad to see the response :D
On August 14 2011 10:27 Talin wrote: That isn't a deep question at all.
It's just a loaded question intended to wake up the inner megalomaniac in people - and it's obviously working on a lot of people, which makes me kinda sad. -_-
Forgotten, obviously.
Yeah this is such a stupid question lol. I voted forgotten not that it matters anyway.
Definitely forgotten, unless i could be hated by bad people and loved by the rest. I don't think I am capable of doing something so horrific that I am universally hated by everyone for an eternity.
On August 14 2011 10:27 Talin wrote: That isn't a deep question at all.
It's just a loaded question intended to wake up the inner megalomaniac in people - and it's obviously working on a lot of people, which makes me kinda sad. -_-
Forgotten, obviously.
Yeah this is such a stupid question lol. I voted forgotten not that it matters anyway.
it's not supposed to matter- just to get people thinking. Haters gonna hate i spose
Almost all people who become infamous never really intend to be thought of that way. Or they thought that the merit of their actions would eventually be respected. The idea of doing something terrible with the specific intent to become infamous is kind of laughable. Anyways these days fame is so disposable you'd have to basically start world war 3 to stick in the new cycle for more than a couple of weeks.
I'd choose to be forgotten everyone on this planet is insignificant anyways, myself included. Enjoy your nonexistent influence on reality, then shut the fuck up and die the way the universe intended =].
depends on the reason for the hatred i suppose. lelouch of the rebellion went down in the anime code geass as the "hitler" kind of person and hated eternally but that was part of a plan to bring the world together so in effect he 'took one for the team'. if it was for a good reason i would, but for a wrong reason i would rather just be forgotten.
The question is linked to your beliefs on the afterlife. Personally I am atheist and believe everything ends when you die. The only logical answer is that I'd prefer to be forgotten because as a human I don't want to have a negative impact on our race.
On August 14 2011 11:00 FYRE wrote: Hitler was the best leader this world has ever seen. Hating him cannot change the fact that he lead Germany out of economical and cultural ruin into one of the most feared war machines in history.
He really wasn't, all the economical stuff he had nothing to do with, the extent of his personal contribution to rearmanent was to demand that it was done very quickly (which both hurt the economy badly and forced them to get involved in the Spanish civil war). The state he created wasn't sustainable without war and he was a terrible military commander as well, if he'd let his generals actually run the war then Germany would have had a much higher chance of success. His typical working day consisted of waking up just before lunch, having lunch, sitting down for an hour or two to "work" which generally involved dictating stuff to some people, going for a walk (always downhill with a car waiting at the bottom to take him back up) then had dinner and began the evening of having a drink and watching films or telling old war stories.
He was good at drumming up the masses to his cause with speeches, acting as a uniting figure for the entire völkisch movement and getting the country working without doing much himself by enacting what he called "working towards the furher", which basically consisted of him stating a broad range of aims and goals and encouraging people, from the average SA street thug to high ranking party members, to do things to bring these into reality. These ranged from shopkeepers exploiting anti jewish legislation to get rid of some competition to officials ordering death camps to be built and the rounding up of people.
All he really accomplished was to bring Germany to total destruction within 12 years after being levered into power by conservatives and others for their own selfish interests, they certainly underestimated his capilities.
I would say hated. But then again, its all relative. Even though the majority might hate you, there will always be people who support you, or who would idolize you. Better to be a somebody who actually did something notable, than a nobody, imo.
I'd say hated to the point of school's teaching about the evils and stuff. In retrospect, people would learn what not to do in that case and there would be some kind of evidence against an evil action.
On August 14 2011 10:27 Talin wrote: That isn't a deep question at all.
It's just a loaded question intended to wake up the inner megalomaniac in people - and it's obviously working on a lot of people, which makes me kinda sad. -_-
Forgotten, obviously.
Yeah this is such a stupid question lol. I voted forgotten not that it matters anyway.
it's not supposed to matter- just to get people thinking. Haters gonna hate i spose
The problem is its not even a question thats worth thinking about or even requires thinking lol.
On August 14 2011 10:27 Talin wrote: That isn't a deep question at all.
It's just a loaded question intended to wake up the inner megalomaniac in people - and it's obviously working on a lot of people, which makes me kinda sad. -_-
Forgotten, obviously.
Yeah this is such a stupid question lol. I voted forgotten not that it matters anyway.
it's not supposed to matter- just to get people thinking. Haters gonna hate i spose
The problem is its not even a question thats worth thinking about or even requires thinking lol.
Hated, at least I did something significant to change the world, maybe even for the better. If you have any faith in man kind at all, you know they'll learn something from the hatred. In some way, I'll better humanity.
This thread reminds me of Jigsaw from the Saw franchise. The only way to beat death is to become immortal. The only way to achieve immortality is to be remembered forever by everyone, no matter what the reason is.
I would rather be known as someone who was friendly and be forgotten when I pass. People that are naturally evil dickheads are a disease and I sympathize for them.
I would rather have my imprint left on the world rather then be forgotten forever. I mean how awesome would it be to have memes of yourself LONG after you are gone? I mean come on, no one wants to die without being remembered for something
There're bunches of people who did the right things and still be remembered forever, such as <enter some random names here you know>. Why on earth do I want to be hated forever? The thing is, if I'm capable of doing something bad enough to be remembered forever, I may be also capable of doing something good enough to be remembered. It's just my path to choose, although it's easier to do something bad in a good society than do something good, just like it's easier to do something good in a bad society.
I'd rather be hated, because then I'd have a legacy for my descendants, which might make life worse for them but at least they will always remember me. It'd be like a death present to my children. Imfamy is oftentimes better than being forgotten, the reason for why I am hated will be let known to all the children, so they won't repeat whatever crimes or mistakes I commit in this theoretical procedure.
i don't want to hijack the thread but i'm always curious why people use hitler as an example of evil rather than stalin. always thought stalin killed FAR more people.
I don't get the obsession with "being remembered" in general. Seems to be a huge theme in all kinds of art and media. If I do something I do it because i think it's right not because I want people who i don't know and who will never know me personally remember my name. Certainly not for something horrible. I don't care much about my name being said in the future...
Actually, this question has brought up issues that I've struggled with for years.
After battling all my life with the acceptance of death I feel happy that I'm able to clearly state that the answer to this question 100% does not matter either way. This sort of question would have sent me into deep thought in the past but it's nice that I seem to have finally accepted that what happens after you die does not matter, at all.
It's weird to finally say that I don't care about my legacy or what people think of me, posthumously. In years past I would have been obsessed with building a "successful" life and at least some form of legacy. However: the poem Ozymandias can be cited as a succinct explanation of my current feelings in this regard.
I met a traveller from an antique land Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed. And on the pedestal these words appear: `My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!' Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare, The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Quite a depressing poem, if you fear death, I think. But the poem is also liberating if viewed in the right way: this life is what we have, and there can be no true legacy for any human; all passes away in the end. Certainly there is no one who remembers the deeds of anyone before the year 6000 BC or so. Eventually there will be no one who remembers Hitler and his deeds, or Churchill and his deeds, or Jesus Christ and his deeds. The sands of time wash will wash everything away in the end.
But what this means for us is that a completely fulfilling life can be had by simply living it the best you can. Living life "the best you can" differs from person to person, whether it's going out and becoming President, or writing essays on mortality on internet gaming forums.
Since one's deeds become meaningless given enough time, and since death inevitably occurs, rendering anything that happens after death meaningless, what happens before death is what is important.
I would take hated. What is the point of living if you aren't going to leave a mark?
Hatred is sometimes a mark of respect, honestly though, you can be hated and still have contributed positively to humanity, helped your country or done something generally good. All hatred means is you might have stepped on some toes in doing so.
Hated. If I was that hated, I must've done something huge. I must've been a powerful person during my life. That's better than being completely and utterly forgotten.
The reason why we have figures like Hitler and Stalin in our history books is so we can prevent these types of people from rising to power. So if I go down in history as a huge asshole, then everyone in the future will know how to not be a huge asshole and how to deal with people like me. XD
On August 14 2011 15:00 TheCrimsonReaper wrote: I would take hated. What is the point of living if you aren't going to leave a mark?
Ah, but what matters most? Making a mark or being remembered for making a mark. See one could be a great positive force for change and yet no-one knows about it. Or one could make a mark negative enough to be hated. (Under these very arbitrary conditions.) I would think the deed is greater than the memory of the deed.
The only way I could see choosing the legacy one is if you're going to pull a Batman- everyone's scapegoat, but you actually were objectively a force for positive change.
I feel like leading a life set my good morals and trying to be a good citizen is all i can ask for.
If i end up being forgotten to the sands of time after my grandchildren are dead, then i'll go the exact same way that almost every single one of our great-great-grandfathers have gone.
I mean think about it, just because you're forgotten, doesn't mean you weren't important. Can you trace your lineage all the way back to an original civilization? All those people from then to now lived, and died, and are completely forgotten.
I would prefer to be forgotten. Think about your family. I can imagine, that relatives of deeply hated, dead people are having a hard time dealing with insults/maybe even physical attacks. Being a hated person even after your death is nothing someone can be proud of imo.
Well if some people absolute hate you, there had to be atleast a small group of people who love you or your cause or whatever you did just as much. (similar to Nazis and Hitler since we're going with that analogy a lot here ).
I dont like this thread and it is not funny in the slightest. It makes me think about people like Anders Breivik and other nutheads or mass murderers like Hitler, Stalin ... throught time and history.
For the sake and respect of their victims I would like this stupid senseless thread to be closed because it does not serve any real discussion or has a valid purpose.
On August 14 2011 16:11 The_LiNk wrote: My my, what a philosophical breakthrough. What's their inspiration? The Illiad and the story of Achilles? Substitute glory with hate?
Sure you don't mean it the other way around? Achilles sacrificed his immortality to achieve glory.
Perhaps substitute glory for the good life? That analogy kind of works though it's still pretty abnormal given that Achilles achieved the figurative immortality talked about in this thread through his glorious actions.
I'm assuming that the forgotten option applies to only after I die.
Forgotten is the obvious choice here. You could be the most disgusting, sick fuck in the world and have everybody forget about it. I don't even see how someone could choose the other option unless they just want to be hated or famous.
I have always thought my life goal was to leave a mark significant enough for people to remember it. But if it is for the cost of being hated...
If I get hated it surely must mean that I did something very wrong, I don't think that is what I want to leave as a mark. I would take that as failing my life goal, being forgotten is also a fail but not as harsh. Mega fail > fail (Bringing in Mathematics into this!)
I guess if I had to choose I would rather be forgotten. If you're hated for all eternity you must have messed up big time. So big that people eons in the future still think you were an idiot.
Hitler's not remembered very much. The things that Hitler did are remembered because people lost loved-ones because of what he chose to do. He as a person is never mentioned apart from his actions with much interest.
Minus the Holocaust and War, just imagine his biography.
On August 14 2011 17:44 WeddingEpisode wrote: Definitely forgotten.
Hitler's not remembered very much. The things that Hitler did are remembered because people lost loved-ones because of what he chose to do. He as a person is never mentioned apart from his actions with much interest.
Minus the Holocaust and War, just imagine his biography.
Most people are eventually forgotten, why not just sooner than later? I don't see what the big deal is. Hated for all eternity seems like the worse end of the stick.
On August 14 2011 17:44 WeddingEpisode wrote: Definitely forgotten.
Hitler's not remembered very much. The things that Hitler did are remembered because people lost loved-ones because of what he chose to do. He as a person is never mentioned apart from his actions with much interest.
Minus the Holocaust and War, just imagine his biography.
The actions of a man is what defines him.
I think that's part of the outrage of it. He doesn't deserve the attention.
If I'm dead... I'm dead.... Behing hated means I've done atrocious things when i was alive, I'd prefere to be hardcore gaming in some basement and die forgotten than murdering innocent people or anything else I don't picture myself doing. If I'm hated but I did something that was fair, and I'm hated for that, that's fine for me.
If I was hated, that would mean that from a reasonable future point of view, my actions would seem mad and stupid to ALL people, and that would mean that they hence were pretty dumb....
I couldn't care much less what the majority thinks of me, especially once I am gone. Still, forgotten sounds nicer. There's no reason not to forget me, saving my fellow's grief.
If you care about what your friends and family thinks of you while you are alive, why would you want them to hate you (or whatever it is) after you die? (regarding the people saying they don't care what people think after they are gone).
If you are forgotten by everyone soon after your death, you were nothing in life. It means no one loved you, no one cared about you, that you achieved nothing.
If you are hated, reviled for all eternity, you were something. You achieved. You were great. A great evil, perhaps, but still great. You changed the world.
I would much rather be Hated, not because I must be remembered, but because I think that it would be awesome to have that much of an impact on the world. That is kinda what I strive to do in my life, except maybe not by doing something like Hitler did... I guess it would be fun either way :D
Everyone is forgotten eventually. Sure you remember Augustus. Even Alexander. But a thousand years before that remembrance becomes slimmer and so on until 8000 years ago you're just a skeleton with ceremonial pottery to indicate it was a grave.
I'd rather accept that our time of existence is limited no matter how great your impact is. Whether you are remembered by leaving Rome a city of marble or by the ethnic cleansing of the Balkins, you won't be remembered forever.
Rather shockingly sad poll ;o I was surprised by the results. I mean it says right in the OP, hate equivalent to Hitler. If given the opportunity, hundreds of people here would kill millions of innocent people just so that their name would be remembered? What the fuck. Egotism at it's finest. I'd rather leave the world a better place because of my existence and be forgotten.
Definitely forgotten. Even though I'm dead, if I was hated as much as Hitler, any family/future generations would probably get a bad rap and/or be living in shame due to all the heinous crimes I committed.
I'd rather go down not having done something to hurt species progression, than to do it just for the fame. Fame which, like some have said already, wouldn't do me any good
On August 14 2011 23:28 iNfeRnaL wrote: This poll lacks the "I don't want to be forgotten nor hated" option.
Definitely haha. I dont think I would care not being remembered, but I most certainly wouldn't want to be hated. I guess this question comes down to when it was asked. Because you could leave the world forgotten but not have been forgotten after you death but merely lost with time. Theres 7 billion people on the planet and 99% of them will not be remembered in 100 years. I'm content being one of the 99% of individuals.
On August 14 2011 17:44 WeddingEpisode wrote: Definitely forgotten.
Hitler's not remembered very much. The things that Hitler did are remembered because people lost loved-ones because of what he chose to do. He as a person is never mentioned apart from his actions with much interest.
Minus the Holocaust and War, just imagine his biography.
The actions of a man is what defines him.
I think that's part of the outrage of it. He doesn't deserve the attention.
In addition to being one of the most wicked people to ever live, Hitler also was one of the most brilliant orators. Also, from a historical standpoint I personally find it interesting how a man could disguise such an evil and disgusting scheme behind loud speeches and blind nationalism.
On August 14 2011 10:27 Talin wrote: That isn't a deep question at all.
It's just a loaded question intended to wake up the inner megalomaniac in people - and it's obviously working on a lot of people, which makes me kinda sad. -_-
Forgotten, obviously.
This post sums up my view of the poll quite well. I don't like the question, and I don't like the type of people who would ask it. Intellectual filth.
On August 14 2011 10:13 Province wrote: Well if I picked hated, then by extension my family/everyone I ever knew would probably be hated aswell, so I pick forgotten.
This. I wouldn't mind being hated forever, but it would really screw things up for your family generations down the road.
Also the comparison to Hitler is pretty bad, seeing as he has only been hated for less than 100 years which is hardly a long time. We'll forget about him in the future.
On that note you would have to destroy like half of the world or something in order to accomplish this.
On August 14 2011 17:44 WeddingEpisode wrote: Definitely forgotten.
Hitler's not remembered very much. The things that Hitler did are remembered because people lost loved-ones because of what he chose to do. He as a person is never mentioned apart from his actions with much interest.
Minus the Holocaust and War, just imagine his biography.
The actions of a man is what defines him.
I think that's part of the outrage of it. He doesn't deserve the attention.
In addition to being one of the most wicked people to ever live, Hitler also was one of the most brilliant orators. Also, from a historical standpoint I personally find it interesting how a man could disguise such an evil and disgusting scheme behind loud speeches and blind nationalism.
It's all about opportunity. Germany was at a major low in morale after the first world war, and Hitler promised many great things for them. Given that Germany had previously been a very proud nation, they jumped at the chance to be considered equals or even superior to the rest of the world. Had Germany not been in the state it was in, Hitler never would have came into power.
On August 14 2011 10:27 Talin wrote: That isn't a deep question at all.
It's just a loaded question intended to wake up the inner megalomaniac in people - and it's obviously working on a lot of people, which makes me kinda sad. -_-
Forgotten, obviously.
I share a similar view to this guy. I think it shows you have some issues if you would rather be hated than forgotten. Being forgotten isn't a big deal at all. The vast majority of people who have ever lived have already been forgotten.
On August 14 2011 10:27 Talin wrote: That isn't a deep question at all.
It's just a loaded question intended to wake up the inner megalomaniac in people - and it's obviously working on a lot of people, which makes me kinda sad. -_-
Forgotten, obviously.
I share a similar view to this guy. I think it shows you have some issues if you would rather be hated than forgotten. Being forgotten isn't a big deal at all. The vast majority of people who have ever lived have already been forgotten.
People are entitled to their own opinion- one could criticise you just as easily
On August 14 2011 10:27 Talin wrote: That isn't a deep question at all.
It's just a loaded question intended to wake up the inner megalomaniac in people - and it's obviously working on a lot of people, which makes me kinda sad. -_-
Forgotten, obviously.
I share a similar view to this guy. I think it shows you have some issues if you would rather be hated than forgotten. Being forgotten isn't a big deal at all. The vast majority of people who have ever lived have already been forgotten.
People are entitled to their own opinion- one could criticise you just as easily
No they couldn't. Accepting that you'll be forgotten is something that pretty much everyone has to learn to live with. Wanting to be a fame monger at the expense of the suffering of tons of people just so someone will remember your name is a pretty clear sign that something isn't right in your head.
On August 14 2011 10:27 Talin wrote: That isn't a deep question at all.
It's just a loaded question intended to wake up the inner megalomaniac in people - and it's obviously working on a lot of people, which makes me kinda sad. -_-
Forgotten, obviously.
I share a similar view to this guy. I think it shows you have some issues if you would rather be hated than forgotten. Being forgotten isn't a big deal at all. The vast majority of people who have ever lived have already been forgotten.
People are entitled to their own opinion- one could criticise you just as easily
No they couldn't. Accepting that you'll be forgotten is something that pretty much everyone has to learn to live with. Wanting to be a fame monger at the expense of the suffering of tons of people just so someone will remember your name is a pretty clear sign that something isn't right in your head.
Exactly. It's a logical thought (not one of opinion) that presents the statement: "Someone who would rather be hated than forgotten has something not right in their head."
What are some of people's reasons for preferring to be hated, or more specifically; Why is it so important to you after you are dead that people remember you, even at the expense of the well-being of other human beings?
I'd much rather do positive things while I am alive because when I'm dead I will have no concept of the thought that "no one knows who I am!" "I" will cease to exist and it will simply be a body left.
So weird how when people think about death, there's so many illogical ideas that people will stick to. Must be one of the bigger draws of religions, the comfort that there's something after what's now.
I'd rather be forgotten because then my relatives and friends wouldn't have to death the grieving a loved one. Also it would be better to have less hate in the world
Hated, but not because I necessarily want to be remembered. I just assume from the choices that the hated one is the one that made an impact. If that is not the case, and either choice can make an impact, then it really does not matter to me.
As a good call back, in a Babylon 5 episode Sheridan and Delenn are asked whether they are willing to die alone and forgotten, and they choose yes:
But the point of it is not that they die forgotten, but they choose to die for something they believe in. They choose something in which they have an impact, for example sacrificing their lives for something. I would make the same choice. In the end, I want to have an impact, whether I remembered or not, whether I be hated or loved.
The reason hated appeals to me more at first is because if I am hated and remembered, then I definitely made an impact, whereas if I am forgotten, it is unclear.
i want to be forgotten because if u are hated for all time it means u did something really bad and that means that regardless of if u believe in an afterlief or not it is a bad thing becus:
if you believe if an afterlife: you are going to go to hell or suffer; alternatively, if you believ in reincarnation you will be a littel shit bug.
if you do not believe in an afterlife: this means that that once you are dead you are unaffected and you do not remember if you did something bad or good. but if you are hated throughout history it means during ur life u probly lived with a guilty conscience and didnt actually enjoy lief to the fullest becus you were constantlynlt doing bad things (the only way you would be hated in history)
whoever chooses to be hated over forgotten, regardless of belief post-life, is clearly an idiet.
I voted to be forgotten but that's only because there's not a "I wouldn't know anyways since I'm deceased" answer. I wouldn't like the thought of that while I'm alive but after I don't mind the hate or nobody knowing.
Well if I hade unlimited power I would do things that would get me really hated by ALOT of people so the choice is simple. Also I'm quite used to being hated in my everyday life so wont really hurt to still be hated when I'm dead since you cant notice it when you dont exist.
Its an interesting question. People say forgotten because if you were hated then your family would suffer. But is this always the case? Sure if you were hitler's kids you would be fucked because he lost the war but then you have people like stalin and mao zedong who caused millions of deaths but are still well respected in their own countries. Doesnt mao's son have some high ranking govt son simply because of his relation?
Why would anyone say hated? You are dead, so you gain\lose nothing, and if nobody remembers you it doesnt matter. If you are hated along the likes of hitler though, you have pretty much ruined the life of your entire family for the next 5 generations.
On August 15 2011 10:42 Earll wrote: Why would anyone say hated? You are dead, so you gain\lose nothing, and if nobody remembers you it doesnt matter. If you are hated along the likes of hitler though, you have pretty much ruined the life of your entire family for the next 5 generations.
Well, if i'm going to be universally hated, then my fam will probably passionately hate me too, so screw them
On August 15 2011 10:42 Earll wrote: Why would anyone say hated? You are dead, so you gain\lose nothing, and if nobody remembers you it doesnt matter. If you are hated along the likes of hitler though, you have pretty much ruined the life of your entire family for the next 5 generations.
Well, if i'm going to be universally hated, then my fam will probably passionately hate me too, so screw them
They would hate you for ruining their lives, as you would have done =p
People saying they want to be hated should think about what that means. To be hated on the level of Hitler you would have to do things on the level of Nazi atrocities. Are you really such a monster to do that just so people do not forget about you? If after people think it through and still want to be hated like that I have to say that it is troubling that some 40 percent of people responding to this thread are psychopaths.
Forgotten, I wouldn't want to go out knowing a bunch of people would hate me. Plus, many of the things that people do to get them to be hated tends to be very controversial, and could spark an age of people wanting to "follow" in your footsteps the wrong way (i.e neo-nazis in America today).
On a second note, I love the PKA podcast, I'm glad I'm not the only one here to listens to it.
I would love to be hated forever for exiling a bunch of mutants and misfits to the Koprulu Sector and then sending a fleet to conquer the sector after.
I think Napoleon Bonaparte said "History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon", which I believe. I would naturally want to find evidence that supports my beliefs, and being hated as a great villain when you were not in fact would just support that belief.
seems like a bunch of people talking out of their ass tbh.
about a third of all people (if we extrapolate these results to the entire world population) would, if given the choice, press a button which launches hundreds of nukes, resulting in the death of billions of people, right before their death rather than dieing normally(dieing normally means you WILL be forgotten, mabye not right away but within 2-3 generations you will)
So if we assume that people who voted "hated" actually mean it and aren't trying to be "deep" (whatever the hell that means) then why dont 1 of 3 people go on a killing spree before they die?
Although my first thought was that being hated like Hitler for a time, as an unfortunate way of being held in public memory long enough to potentially have positive historical influence when people eventually change their minds about me, does sound desirable and definitely preferable, the "for eternity" clause does do away with that possibility. I'd prefer to be forgotten, prefer 0 over a negative integer as a value of the impact of my life.
Edit: Actually the question wasn't about the impact of my life.... Actually this is a very complicated question! Back to STX teamleague.
If i was forgotten by friends, family and everyone, noone would know I was there in the first place, so i wouldn't be missed. No tears... I've been up for 24 hours now so sorry if nothing makes any sense.
Why would anyone be so desperate to be remembered? Sounds a bit narcissistic tbh. I wouldn't mind being forgotten even if the other option was being loved, I'm dead, what do I care?
Going down in a blaze of glory ( or hatred) sounds fun in theory but I think I'd rather be forgotten. I will disappear and no one will ever know I was there.... sad panda day.
On July 21, 356 BC, Herostratus set fire to the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus in what is now Turkey... Measuring 130 metres long (425 feet) and supported by columns 18 metres high (60 feet), it was one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.
Far from attempting to evade responsibility for his act of arson, Herostratus proudly claimed credit in an attempt to immortalize his name. To dissuade those of a similar mind, the Ephesian authorities not only executed him, but attempted to condemn him to a legacy of obscurity by forbidding mention of his name under penalty of death.
Almost everyone die and is forgotten in 40-50 years or so, so that's not a big deal for me. Being hated for eternity kinda sucks if you get kids and stuff. So I'd rather be forgotten.
On August 14 2011 17:44 WeddingEpisode wrote: Definitely forgotten.
Hitler's not remembered very much. The things that Hitler did are remembered because people lost loved-ones because of what he chose to do. He as a person is never mentioned apart from his actions with much interest.
Minus the Holocaust and War, just imagine his biography.
The actions of a man is what defines him.
I think that's part of the outrage of it. He doesn't deserve the attention.
In addition to being one of the most wicked people to ever live, Hitler also was one of the most brilliant orators. Also, from a historical standpoint I personally find it interesting how a man could disguise such an evil and disgusting scheme behind loud speeches and blind nationalism.
It's all about opportunity. Germany was at a major low in morale after the first world war, and Hitler promised many great things for them. Given that Germany had previously been a very proud nation, they jumped at the chance to be considered equals or even superior to the rest of the world. Had Germany not been in the state it was in, Hitler never would have came into power.
While that may be true, his speeches are still extremely compelling. I'm not saying that Germany's state in the aftermath of the first world war wasn't part of the cause, but Hitler's speeches were able to inspire an entire nation of broken, battered people. That in itself is an incredible feat. Too bad he decided to be a real dickface.
People who say they would rather be hated than forgotten are either lying, or TL.net is full of sociopaths planning some sort of nefarious mass murder. Seriously, do those who claim to prefer being hated actually plan to go out and do the required murderous rampage? I doubt it.
In light of the recent Connecticut massacre I'd like to invite the 38% of TL'ers who voted they'd rather be remembered as a new Hitler than forgotten to explain their views. How many children would you kill to achieve your goal?
On December 19 2012 03:02 helvete wrote: In light of the recent Connecticut massacre I'd like to invite the 38% of TL'ers who voted they'd rather be remembered as a new Hitler than forgotten to explain their views. How many children would you kill to achieve your goal?
What a complete random and useless necro in light of that event. Whoever did that massacre at the school will be forgotten, no history books will remember him and no history classes will make you study him and what he did compared to hitler.
EPT
. but not as equal as hitler =( thats bad.
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