On August 12 2011 14:54 Equity213 wrote: Im not one of those PETA freaks, but is this shit really necessary? Even zoos dont seem to be worth the mild amusement we get from them.
Theres nothing wrong with eating animals, but do we really have to torture them and keep them in cages?
Most animals you eat have been tortured and kept in cages before landing on your plate. That's the big deal. If we were only a few millions of hunter-gatherers across the globe, there would be nothing wrong with eating animals. Unfortunately that's not the case.
There are still moral problems with meat eating at a small scale though. Why does an animal deserve to die? Why do we need to eat meat when we can eaqually easily live off a plant based diet nowadays?
The only time I can say that I feel that eating meat is morally justifiable is in a live or die situation, but hell. If I was in one of those I would eat human aswell.
I don't understand this arguement.
Vegitarians never bitch about a Bear eating a Rabbit, why do they bitch when I eat a Cow?
We were born to be omnivores. That's how I'll continue living my life. Killing cows for their beef and what they did to this bear is 100% different stories and shouldn't be argued in the same thread.
On August 12 2011 16:52 neoghaleon55 wrote: God! What is it with these assholes and being a dick to animals. If you want to use it's stuff than fucking kill it already! Fucking chinese! I'm ashamed to be one. My parents tell me stories like these that I never want to hear. Like how villagers would chop off half a fish at the right angle so that it'll barely survive...that way you can save it for later meals. Fucking retarded animal cruelty.
Yea, its easy to take a piss out of them when you're in a first world country. Most of what these stories are meant to get across is that China has gone through hard times, and people were forced to live in really bad circumstances.
Your story about the fish- what if they did not have adequate refrigeration and very little food? You catch two fish, one now, one later. Of course, I am assuming many things about what your parents said but the fact of the matter is hard times force people to make hard decisions.
This is fucking insane. I don't understand how these people live with themselves, seriously.. heartless bastards. Also so much more amazing/depressing when the animal understands the situation and understands death as an escape (if it's true of course).
On August 12 2011 14:54 Equity213 wrote: Im not one of those PETA freaks, but is this shit really necessary? Even zoos dont seem to be worth the mild amusement we get from them.
Theres nothing wrong with eating animals, but do we really have to torture them and keep them in cages?
Most animals you eat have been tortured and kept in cages before landing on your plate. That's the big deal. If we were only a few millions of hunter-gatherers across the globe, there would be nothing wrong with eating animals. Unfortunately that's not the case.
There are still moral problems with meat eating at a small scale though. Why does an animal deserve to die? Why do we need to eat meat when we can eaqually easily live off a plant based diet nowadays?
The only time I can say that I feel that eating meat is morally justifiable is in a live or die situation, but hell. If I was in one of those I would eat human aswell.
I don't understand this arguement.
Vegitarians never bitch about a Bear eating a Rabbit, why do they bitch when I eat a Cow?
First of all, how CAN I bitch at a bear? Secondly, the bear IS in a life and death situation, we are not. THIRDLY, just because one species is immoral doesnt mean that ours should be?
On August 12 2011 14:54 Equity213 wrote: Im not one of those PETA freaks, but is this shit really necessary? Even zoos dont seem to be worth the mild amusement we get from them.
Theres nothing wrong with eating animals, but do we really have to torture them and keep them in cages?
Most animals you eat have been tortured and kept in cages before landing on your plate. That's the big deal. If we were only a few millions of hunter-gatherers across the globe, there would be nothing wrong with eating animals. Unfortunately that's not the case.
There are still moral problems with meat eating at a small scale though. Why does an animal deserve to die? Why do we need to eat meat when we can eaqually easily live off a plant based diet nowadays?
The only time I can say that I feel that eating meat is morally justifiable is in a live or die situation, but hell. If I was in one of those I would eat human aswell.
I don't understand this arguement.
Vegitarians never bitch about a Bear eating a Rabbit, why do they bitch when I eat a Cow?
First of all, how CAN I bitch at a bear? Secondly, the bear IS in a life and death situation, we are not. THIRDLY, just because one species is immoral doesnt mean that ours should be?
There's so much wrong with this post. A bear is not starving to death when it decides to eat meat. It's no more life and death then when a person eats meat. The bear, like the person, is hungry at the time and meat is available. To say when animals eat meat it's life or death, but when a person does it's different, is disingenuous at best.
Also, just because one species is immoral? You mean all the omnivorous species out there right? There's a lot more then one, and that you would call a non-sentient animal 'immoral' is laughable. IMO, the idea that eating meat in general is immoral is laughable. Treat the animals well and give them a quick death and there's nothing immoral about. It's way better then being stalked by a cougar and then being strangled to death while you panic in fear.
@neoghaleon55 They don't kill the bears because they are using their bile for cures and by killing the bear, you can't milk them every day (It does seem like a very brutal procedure but it's just something they do)
I do not condone this procedure and find that this story is really, really sad.
That being said, I figure these things are quite normal in the Chinese culture as from what I know, chinese medicine is a bit weird and a lot different than what we have in the West. A lot of the people making comments that sound like "These people are heartless" and "They should be ashamed of what they are doing" but they need to realize that these people need to make a living and China is an impoverished state and they have to do something to support themselves. Not only that but our cultures are much different than theirs and who are we to judge them (for example they can eat dogs and we keep them as pets)?
Basically, my point is that people should understand that people who do things like this are not heartless (well not all of them at least) but that the things they do in their lives are normal to them and is just their way of making a living.
On August 12 2011 14:54 Equity213 wrote: Im not one of those PETA freaks, but is this shit really necessary? Even zoos dont seem to be worth the mild amusement we get from them.
Theres nothing wrong with eating animals, but do we really have to torture them and keep them in cages?
Most animals you eat have been tortured and kept in cages before landing on your plate. That's the big deal. If we were only a few millions of hunter-gatherers across the globe, there would be nothing wrong with eating animals. Unfortunately that's not the case.
There are still moral problems with meat eating at a small scale though. Why does an animal deserve to die? Why do we need to eat meat when we can eaqually easily live off a plant based diet nowadays?
The only time I can say that I feel that eating meat is morally justifiable is in a live or die situation, but hell. If I was in one of those I would eat human aswell.
I don't understand this arguement.
Vegitarians never bitch about a Bear eating a Rabbit, why do they bitch when I eat a Cow?
First of all, how CAN I bitch at a bear? Secondly, the bear IS in a life and death situation, we are not. THIRDLY, just because one species is immoral doesnt mean that ours should be?
There's so much wrong with this post. A bear is not starving to death when it decides to eat meat. It's no more life and death then when a person eats meat. The bear, like the person, is hungry at the time and meat is available. To say when animals eat meat it's life or death, but when a person does it's different, is disingenuous at best.
Also, just because one species is immoral? You mean all the omnivorous species out there right? There's a lot more then one, and that you would call a non-sentient animal 'immoral' is laughable. IMO, the idea that eating meat in general is immoral is laughable. Treat the animals well and give them a quick death and there's nothing immoral about. It's way better then being stalked by a cougar and then being strangled to death while you panic in fear.
Not to mention I am sure a bear could eat berries or honey, or something not meat if it really wanted to.
Living things eat living things. It is how the world works.
Can we not have a vegetarian argument here? start a new thread if it means that much to either side.
This farm is clearly against morallity, torturing animals for some mumbo-jumbo BS. I don't care if people practice superstitious crap as long as it isn't hurting anyone. It is here. The farm needs to be shut down.
On August 12 2011 19:24 StarBrift wrote: Torturing animals for some superstitious vodoo shit that is clearly doesnt work in reality. The peoples of this world are so fucking stupid.
On August 12 2011 14:54 Equity213 wrote: Im not one of those PETA freaks, but is this shit really necessary? Even zoos dont seem to be worth the mild amusement we get from them.
Theres nothing wrong with eating animals, but do we really have to torture them and keep them in cages?
Most animals you eat have been tortured and kept in cages before landing on your plate. That's the big deal. If we were only a few millions of hunter-gatherers across the globe, there would be nothing wrong with eating animals. Unfortunately that's not the case.
There are still moral problems with meat eating at a small scale though. Why does an animal deserve to die? Why do we need to eat meat when we can eaqually easily live off a plant based diet nowadays?
The only time I can say that I feel that eating meat is morally justifiable is in a live or die situation, but hell. If I was in one of those I would eat human aswell.
I don't understand this arguement.
Vegitarians never bitch about a Bear eating a Rabbit, why do they bitch when I eat a Cow?
First of all, how CAN I bitch at a bear? Secondly, the bear IS in a life and death situation, we are not. THIRDLY, just because one species is immoral doesnt mean that ours should be?
There's so much wrong with this post. A bear is not starving to death when it decides to eat meat. It's no more life and death then when a person eats meat. The bear, like the person, is hungry at the time and meat is available. To say when animals eat meat it's life or death, but when a person does it's different, is disingenuous at best.
Also, just because one species is immoral? You mean all the omnivorous species out there right? There's a lot more then one, and that you would call a non-sentient animal 'immoral' is laughable. IMO, the idea that eating meat in general is immoral is laughable. Treat the animals well and give them a quick death and there's nothing immoral about. It's way better then being stalked by a cougar and then being strangled to death while you panic in fear.
Once again, since I dont feel that my english is good enough to actually have an intelligent discussion without making myself and my cause look retarded I refrain from the discussion. However I do hope you read the book "Animal Liberation" by Peter Singer and watch this video. A man who not only is more moral than me but also a lot smarter.
On August 12 2011 14:55 ItsMeDomLee wrote: Lololol. This kind of stuff happens everywhere. Everytime you eat KFC you're supporting animal cruelty!
Don't come into these threads and shed tears of ignorance. You're part of the problem.
How is this relevant to the op? Chicken farmers trim beaks to prevent cannibalism, which I agree is the product of animal cruelty, but the op opens up a discussion about a bear's sense of altruism that is comparable to ours.
On August 12 2011 19:16 wussleeQ wrote: @neoghaleon55 They don't kill the bears because they are using their bile for cures and by killing the bear, you can't milk them every day (It does seem like a very brutal procedure but it's just something they do)
I do not condone this procedure and find that this story is really, really sad.
That being said, I figure these things are quite normal in the Chinese culture as from what I know, chinese medicine is a bit weird and a lot different than what we have in the West. A lot of the people making comments that sound like "These people are heartless" and "They should be ashamed of what they are doing" but they need to realize that these people need to make a living and China is an impoverished state and they have to do something to support themselves. Not only that but our cultures are much different than theirs and who are we to judge them (for example they can eat dogs and we keep them as pets)?
Basically, my point is that people should understand that people who do things like this are not heartless (well not all of them at least) but that the things they do in their lives are normal to them and is just their way of making a living.
Dont play the culture card. I'm so sick of being told to accept this crap because we are westeners and 'we dont understand their culture'. Fuck their culture if they do stuff like this. Its not an excuse to commit animal cruelty.
As for being an impoverished state I do understand, life cannot be easy and yes they do have to support themselves. I don't think its right to place the blame of the workers themselves; rather at the idiots who claims this is a legimate method and supports it.
Assuming this article is accurate (in its account of what the mother bear did), that's amazing. Granted, I've read stories of altruistic and morally-profound animals on other occasions, but it gets me every time.
And yes, there's a difference between raising animals in a healthy, domesticated environment for them to be used as our food, and stealing them from the wild or abusing them once they're caged. It's simply not the case that raising animals for their products automatically equates to animal cruelty. They can potentially live good lives.
The story seems a little far-fetched, to me at least. Trying to picture the bear killing another bear to release it from pain and suffering just doesn't comply here. Perhaps it ran into a wall trying to escape instead of killing itself?
Now, on the topic of animal cruelty, because that's pretty much what this thread has turned into. I absolutely agree that it does seem very inhumane. On the other hand I understand that animal testing and various experiments are necessary for our survival, I don't think there's much difference between milking a cow and inserting a syringe full of potentially unsafe drugs into a rat.
EPT
