EPTGirls using wealthy men to pay off student loans - Page 14
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Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On August 02 2011 18:58 mprs wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2011 18:17 KeksX wrote: + Show Spoiler + Before anyone reads my post, I want to make a thing clear: This is my very personal view on things. I see things like that because I thought about them for a vey long time, as I find that quite important. I'm not judging anybody or saying that they are "less" worth it or something like that, I am just saying MY personal view on these things and how they affect ME and why I think what I think. If anyone feels offended, I feel deeply sorry as this is not what I intended to do. On August 02 2011 17:39 sunprince wrote: When an artist, writer, or performer sells their work (the most intimate expression of their feelings), are they less for it? Having sex doesn't take away your ability to express yourself through sex. If anything, the practice makes you better at it. You compare having sex someone to creating some stuff for someone? We have a complete different view on things and thus we can't really discuss that. No wonder you disagree with me. Sex is by my standards nothing like writing a book, a song or performing one on stage, or drawing a portrait of someone. By the expression of feelings I meant the expression of feelings for somebody else. If you do these things for money, you pretty much erase the possibility because it is no longer anything special, but just another "service" you could buy, it just loses the meaning it had. On August 02 2011 17:49 G_Wen wrote: ... Look, I already said that it is okay for me as long as it is okay for them. For me, sex is just nothing like "Hey could you do me a favor and have sex with me?" No, I have a complete different view on that. I don't go into a restaurant and ask the waitress for sex before having dinner. I could never have sex "just for fun". It's just not how I see things. Just because some people are having sex without the emotional connection does not lesson the value of intimate sex. I disagree on that point. Strongly. Sex is the strongest terrestrial expression of love. The strongest. As a human being you can't feel the feelings of other humans, thats just not possible. Therefore, having sex for money destroys the way of having sex because of love, at least for me. Let me explain why I think so: Why do we talk to each other? Because we can't read each other's mind, right? So when we talk to each other, you hope to get the information that I have(my mind and thoughts), and I hope the same for you. Nnow, when you start talking bullshit and not what you think and not what I want to hear, I don't trust you anymore. Your talking won't mean anything to me because I know I can't be sure whether it is true or not. Sure, this state can change, but for that typical moment I don't believe what you say. Now it comes to love. Feelings. How can we express these? Facial expressions, words, kissing etc and sex and anything related to it. What happens when you start laughing for no reason, say things you don't mean, kiss everybody you see and have sex without emotional connections? Nobody will believe that you are happy when you laugh, nobody will trust a word you say, nobody will have feelings when you make such kind of acts (e.g. kissing for no reason, having sex without even caring about feelings etc.) I know that this is a harsh way to see it, but as I value the "extraterrestrial" over anything else, I try to respect them as much as possible. I could never have sex without "a reason" behind it. I could never kiss someone without "backing it up" with proper feelings, I would never tell you that I'd like you if I didn't. Therefore, I strongly connect these things to people's mind, feelings, thoughts and their overall "human consciousness" and everything that can not be measured in numbers. It is really hard do express, even in words, and the whole topic of communication, feelings and the "possible expressions" for that is very interesting and eversince I thought and read about it I can't just simply say "Sex is just sex, a kiss is just a kiss, and saying "I love you" doesn't mean anything". By saying i'm romantic I didn't mean I'm a casanova, I'm referring to the age of romance as the counterpart to enlightment. And because I know, as a rational human being, this sounds pretty stupid, I said "romantic idiotic f****tard". It is fully understandable that people disagree with me but thats just my 2 cents. I don't disagree with the enlightment on the religion part, but I strongly disagree with it when it comes to feelings, sex and other stuff. And please, I already said that I don't judge them as worse human beings. It's just that I wouldn't trust them in anything related to the issue. EDIT: fixed some typos. Sorry for my horrible english. 1) Your English is fine. Europeans are awesome for being so bilingual. 2) You have a fairly solid point of view, and I'm sure many people in the world share your views. However, you are making a lot of assumptions that pretty much lead right into your conclusion. It is those assumptions that are under attack, not the conclusion. For example, you mention that sex is the ultimate expression of love I disagree on that point. Strongly. Sex is the strongest terrestrial expression of love. The strongest. As a human being you can't feel the feelings of other humans, thats just not possible. Therefore, having sex for money destroys the way of having sex because of love, at least for me. I would agree that if sex is the strongest terrestrial expression of love, then it can be cheapened if it is over done or done carelessly. However, would you not agree that this is also a personal matter. For some people, sex is the strongest expression for love. For others, a romantic candle-lit dinner. For others, sharing a beautiful moment. For others, going on an adventure together. For others, having dedication and trust in a relationship. To say one physical act such as a kiss or sexual intercourse is better than the rest is, in essence, not allowing people the individuality to find their own way to express themselves. It is quite arrogant to say "Hey, this HAS to be the BEST way for YOU to feel love". It is very much an individual matter. Let us take a kiss for example. An alien from the outside world will not know what the purpose of a kiss on the cheek is. The only reason we see it as an act of compassion is because we have symbolized it to be so. There is no real reason for it otherwise. Same with a handshake. No other animal shakes hands upon greeting each other. It is something that came up culturally and it stuck. Sex, in essence, is just a physical act. Yes it feels good, there is evolutionary reasons for that. Reproduction does not even need to be counted here because intercourse does not mean offspring production (contraceptives and such). So why are we revering the act of sexual intercourse? Is it because it feels good? Is it because it can potentially cause reproduction? But most importantly, why is this the ultimate display of love? You can create children through In Vitro Fertilization. You can feel good by working out. Are those acts of love? Here is what I think. I think that people recognize different things with different symbolism. Some people feel like to be loved is to have sex. Some people feel like sharing a beautiful moment together is love. And people should look for others with similar symbolism as themselves. One type of people are not more correct than the other, in the same way that a culture that shakes hands is not better or worse than a culture that bows. Similar acts symbolized differently. There just has to be a mutual understanding. You do this a few times in your post where you make assumptions and draw conclusions, and defend them using your assumptions. But it is your assumptions that are being challenged. On a side note, its funny how 90% of the people against this are calling these women despicable and whores, yet say nothing about the men. Society says its okay for men to go around fucking everything that moves but heavens almighty if a women can count the people she has sex with using more than one finger. It is clear this is shifting towards a better and fairer equilibrium, these are just small indicators of it. To say one physical act such as a kiss or sexual intercourse is better than the rest is, in essence, not allowing people the individuality to find their own way to express themselves. That is right. That is why I stressed the point that it is MY view on things. I'm totally aware that people can have different views on that. This is the nature of things, however, and I can't really do anything about it. (And why should I? I'm totally fine with that) Love is a very complex "construct", if you want so, and very individual as well. But I also never said that a candle-light dinner is no expression of love or "worse", it is just different. In which way depends on the human being. For me, a candle-light dinner is very intimate as well, but says something different than a kiss for example... Let us take a kiss for example. (...) I agree! BUT, an alien will most likely have similar, if not the exact same feelings and other ways to express these. Maybe they feel the things we will when we kiss each other, but they just do a handshake then? Interesting topic  . Here is what I think. (...) Great conclusion. I really hear you and I feel like, after rereading my post, I really did not respect this in the first place. I understand that there are different types of people with different symbols, however this does imply that they have symbolizations(And you pretty much should assume that everyone has them because it is just...well, without, you could not judge anything whatsever. But this a WHOLE NEW topic!) AND I also stated earlier that this is "my definition of things". I was implying that others have their view, however, I wanted to give you guys my view. The reason I have to assume things is that I have no "scientific evidence".. However, I am not forcing anybody to believe what I believe. I have my view and to everyone that wants to come close to me I make clear how I feel. If they disagree, I respect it. If they agree, I respect it as well. I don't know if "believe" is the right term either, as it is more another feeling. Words are difficult! But still, you have pretty solid points that make me think even more about that topic and I may have to adjust my thoughts, at least when it comes to the terms of "ultimate expression", as it is quite true that people have very unique views here. Oh, and it is NO question for me that women and men are treated equally here. I don't see any reason to treat them differently. P.S: These kind of discussions are what make this forum very unique(at least for me). Never had these before in any other online-community. I aprreciate it, thanks a bunch! Oh and I love how we perfectly prove that things can be very complicated even if they look easy at the first look. | ||
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
On August 02 2011 15:04 Nightfall.589 wrote: In what particular way is this prostitution? Is it because it's loveless sex? Is it because both parties are using eachother? Is it because it's short-term? Is it because that guys is old enough to be my grandfather? Is it prostitution when a guy buys a woman at the bar some drinks, and she later sleeps with him? What about when a girl with no discernible talents, aside from her looks, marries a guy who makes a million a year, and spends the rest of her life pouring wine for him? Heres the definition of prostitution: "The practice or occupation of engaging in sex with someone for payment." This is what the girl has done and therefore it is prostitution. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On August 02 2011 19:04 Wisdom[9] wrote: some people seem to get get so upset and disgusted by what other people do with their own time / money / bodies. why even get so angered by it and think 'this must stop, this is wrong."? i may never want to hire a prostitute myself, but i can still be in favor of prostitution. the biggest problem imo is people who decide what they think is right, and then force their beliefs upon others. if someone disagrees with me, just say "i guess they see it differently or have criteria from me" on any sort of issue and move on. why does everybody have to agree with me and/or pass a law on it because i personally don't like it? I think its natural tendency for people to want to be agreed upon, it's part of evolution. Each person not only want to saturate the earth with his gene, he also desire to saturate the earth with his ideas, believes, and values. This is a secondary traits being passed on, in addition to the primary, biological traits. It is this passing of the secondary traits that makes human unique amongst many other oganisms, who cannot encode what they have learned throughout their life, and pass it on to the generation, but rather having a singular purpose to survive long enough to spawn enough offsprings to prove that its traits are indeed superior. So it is only natural for people wanting to spread their ideas to others, and sometimes to bad ends. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On August 02 2011 19:16 KeksX wrote: That is right. That is why I stressed the point that it is MY view on things. I'm totally aware that people can have different views on that. This is the nature of things, however, and I can't really do anything about it. (And why should I? I'm totally fine with that) Love is a very complex "construct", if you want so, and very individual as well. But I also never said that a candle-light dinner is no expression of love or "worse", it is just different. In which way depends on the human being. For me, a candle-light dinner is very intimate as well, but says something different than a kiss for example... I agree! BUT, an alien will most likely have similar, if not the exact same feelings and other ways to express these. Maybe they feel the things we will when we kiss each other, but they just do a handshake then? Interesting topic . Great conclusion. I really hear you and I feel like, after rereading my post, I really did not respect this in the first place. I understand that there are different types of people with different symbols, however this does imply that they have symbolizations(And you pretty much should assume that everyone has them because it is just...well, without, you could not judge anything whatsever. But this a WHOLE NEW topic!) AND I also stated earlier that this is "my definition of things". I was implying that others have their view, however, I wanted to give you guys my view. The reason I have to assume things is that I have no "scientific evidence".. However, I am not forcing anybody to believe what I believe. I have my view and to everyone that wants to come close to me I make clear how I feel. If they disagree, I respect it. If they agree, I respect it as well. I don't know if "believe" is the right term either, as it is more another feeling. Words are difficult! But still, you have pretty solid points that make me think even more about that topic and I may have to adjust my thoughts, at least when it comes to the terms of "ultimate expression", as it is quite true that people have very unique views here. Oh, and it is NO question for me that women and men are treated equally here. I don't see any reason to treat them differently. P.S: These kind of discussions are what make this forum very unique(at least for me). Never had these before in any other online-community. I aprreciate it, thanks a bunch! Oh and I love how we perfectly prove that things can be very complicated even if they look easy at the first look. you two made my day... <3 | ||
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Casta
Denmark234 Posts
Doesn't really surprise me from what I know about the educational system in the US. I expect that youths with poor or semi-poor parents have to work their ass off to get any kind of education, this is sort of the "easy" way to get forward in life. I think the US government should look at this and their crimerate and maybe make it a little bit easier (economically) to get an education in the US. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
Yep that was beautiful and not quite how I expected this thread to go.  | ||
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Renzin
Australia75 Posts
It is pretty damn depressing to see that women and some men have to turn to selling themselves to others to pay off their university and living expenses. | ||
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Badjas
Netherlands2038 Posts
On August 02 2011 20:03 Renzin wrote: I doubt making this illegal would stop women from turning to this if they're desperate enough. Fortunately in Australia as a citizen you have access to a interest free debt from the government on top of a reduced amount for your university fees which is then repaid off in parts once your salary is high enough. It is pretty damn depressing to see that women and some men have to turn to selling themselves to others to pay off their university and living expenses. remember, prostitutes don't self themselves. They sell their time. Like any other hired person. | ||
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TALegion
United States1187 Posts
On August 02 2011 12:31 Gamegene wrote: The ridiculousness is just ASTOUNDING it hurts my brain. Same. The rest of the stuff about the borderline prostitution is plausible to me. "Do what you gotta to do," to a degree. But the fact that they're risking their lives with potential fucking serial killers (like, if I was one, the site sounds perfect in so many ways...) is what gets me. You must be pretty fucking desparate (or dumb as fuck) to do that to get rid of your student debt. | ||
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
Reminds me of the Sex is Op thread (sex is soooo OP that rich guys have to pay broke college girls for it). What are these girls thinking? Obviously they are thinking they don't care about what anyone else thinks because there is money involved. If I had a girl friend that told me she did this to pay off student loans.... Well I guess she wouldn't be my girlfriend anymore. | ||
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Serelitz
Netherlands2895 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
Holy shit! $500 a night? I'm signing up right now!... I mean... ...what is this world coming to when young men and women prostitute themselves for money... for shame... + Show Spoiler + ...besides there probably aren't that many cougars anyways. | ||
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DarkEnergy
Netherlands542 Posts
this will never stop and they should legalize it. funny that they try delude themselves that they are not selling their body for cash. and deny that the term prostitute applies to them | ||
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Evilmystic
Russian Federation266 Posts
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On August 02 2011 20:35 Evilmystic wrote: I could never understand, how can be people against legal prostitution. The only problem I see with this particular case is that the girls don't pay taxes from their earnings and probably don't undergo medical tests for STD often enough. True about the STD part, but the IRS forces you to list illegal income for tax purposes, though you don't have to state exactly how you got the money. | ||
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
On August 02 2011 20:35 Evilmystic wrote: I could never understand, how can be people against legal prostitution. The only problem I see with this particular case is that the girls don't pay taxes from their earnings and probably don't undergo medical tests for STD often enough. Because thats your opinion, just because it cannot be changed doesn't make it right or wrong or unbiased. But there are plenty of people on this planet that don't think its right to take money for sex (for porn or prostitution, cause really whats the difference). You say "I could never understand?" Why? Is sex really like going to the grocery store for you? Or is it actually important who, where, when, and why it is happening? | ||
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gugarutz
Austria110 Posts
"My situation is different in a number of different ways. First of all, I don't engage with a high volume of people, instead choosing one or two men I actually like spending time with and have decided to develop a friendship with them. And while sex is involved, the focus is on providing friendship. It's not only about getting paid." i lol'd she's obviously trying to talk it down but it's just plain prostitution... | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On August 02 2011 20:35 Evilmystic wrote: I could never understand, how can be people against legal prostitution. The only problem I see with this particular case is that the girls don't pay taxes from their earnings and probably don't undergo medical tests for STD often enough. I hope you will read this post again if your daughter has to prostitute herself to finance her studies. Oh wait, you won't even know that she gets fucked by an 80 year old pervert. In my opinion the real discussion is not whether prostitution should be legal or not, it's about how shocking it is that college girls have to sell their bodies to finance their studies. And I am extremely shocked. | ||
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PolSC2
United States634 Posts
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