EPTOn August 02 2011 21:34 sunprince wrote:
They really don't. They're largely choosing to do so on their own.
They really don't. They're largely choosing to do so on their own.
Bingo.
Girls using wealthy men to pay off student loans - Page 16
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Sporadic44
United States533 Posts
Bingo. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
On August 02 2011 21:30 Diks wrote: If by consenting you mean forced to do it by need, then no... Have you read the article ? About that girl feeling dirty after doing that shit ? You have some weird definition of consentment my friend... They are adults who made their choices. Do you think every girl/women in desperation resorts to prostitution to solve their financial issues? I know a lot of girls who would rather be in crippling debt, work 2~3 jobs, or even halt their education than sell their bodies. It might feel like to these girls that they're left with no other options, but that's not really the case is it? Ultimately, they chose their path as prostitutes and they have to deal with the consequences. | ||
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Casta
Denmark234 Posts
On August 02 2011 21:34 GreEny K wrote: That's one instance, have you seen Las Vegas call girls? Trust me, they don't need to be out there doing what they do. The problem is that the girls don't want to be prostitutes, they just want to get their degree and pay their bills. They do it out of necessity in some form or another. | ||
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TheGiz
Canada708 Posts
Seriously, I would never date anyone for any other reason but their compatibility with me. It is disgusting that people would lower themselves in this way, but paying for and selling sex. While I don't deny that money and sex are attractive qualities in a partner, they are effectively perks, especially money. This does not make people happy, it is simply a means to an end. The mere fact that some women could lie to this degree is horrifying, and it makes me question the degree to which I am being lied to by any girl I am with. | ||
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
On August 02 2011 21:36 Telcontar wrote: They are adults who made their choices. Do you think every girl/women in desperation resorts to prostitution to solve their financial issues? I know a lot of girls who would rather be in crippling debt, work 2~3 jobs, or even halt their education than sell their bodies. It might feel like to these girls that they're left with no other options, but that's not really the case is it? Ultimately, they chose their path as prostitutes and they have to deal with the consequences. Yeah, I guess you're right. It's just that using the "consentment" word is putting dirtyness in a noble concept. Have sex with your wife, and have sex with a prostitue, you can say they were both consenting but actually their "consentment" really is of a different kind. That's what i wanted to mean but you're right. I just feel like it's using the same word for 2 different meanings. And those girls could act differently but the easy money is corrupting souls. | ||
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Evilmystic
Russian Federation266 Posts
On August 02 2011 21:26 Wrongspeedy wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 02 2011 20:56 Evilmystic wrote: It's not because it's not important for me with who, where, when and why I have sex, but because it's not somebody else's business what you do with your body and your time. Prostitution should be regulated though to prevent mass STD transmission just like you have sanitary norms for public catering so you may expect to not get some disease from food you eat there. No one forces you to be prostitute, if you are only able to work as a one you still have option to live on street and die from starvation. But better to sell sex for money than die, right? And better to do it in legit brothels with regular medical examination and employment contract than in some underground shithole with junkie pimp and no protection. I understand personal relationships are no ones business. But this is Business. Literally. I agree that prostitutes in general get a bad rap, and there is nothing wrong with having sex. But look at it from my point of view (even if you don't like it or agree with it). The guy paying for sex is weak, and should be spending his time (which he obviously has a lot of because he is rich) finding a partner (I dunno someone he doesn't have to pay to live with LOL). The girl taking money for sex is weak because she doesn't want to actually have to work and find a job to pay the bills (THAT she has accumulated on her own, knowing 100% that she would have to pay them, and there are ways to go to school without selling your body. Just because its not easy, doesn't mean it doesn't exist). Not to mention she may even regret doing it when she actually realizes that people she chooses to associate with later in life actually care about this sort of thing (because sex is important). They way I'm looking at it, its a lose-lose situation for both parties thats perpetuated by a system that allows it (IE the hook-up website). In the end the rich guy is still lonely (yet sexually satisfied for the moment) and the girl pays some bills (which she could have done some other way but made up excuses to have sex instead). I hope you don't take this as me bashing you or anything, I just actually want to discuss this and see how people feel. Underlined the parts that I think are wrong. At first you have no right at all to decide what's right and what's wrong for other person if they don't meddle with your life. Secondly most people are rich because they work a lot and that's exact opposite of having a lot of free time. And the statement about sex is pretty questionable, it may be important for you but it's not for a lot of people and there is no objective reason for it to be important, only personal beliefs and religious/ethical views. | ||
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couches
618 Posts
College is the new high school. Kids go just because it's the social norm, not because they're motivated to study something. It devalues the degrees they get. Not that the useless artsy degrees were useful in the first place, but you know. They got this pipe dream of being some boring baller white collar office slave. But no drive to make it happen. May as well stick to your first grade career choice of an Astronaut. Of all the people I know who went to 4 yr state colleges(definitely over a few hundred). Only about a dozen are truly making it. And they do have it damn good, but they were the smart ones who knew how to take advantage of their time in college. Others are working retail jobs, driving the same cars they did 10 years ago in high school, complaining on facebook about the economy, and can't do anything fun because they can't afford it due to debt and bills. IMO kids should be motivated to partake in skilled labor careers as well. But for some reason it's looked down on. Look down on it all you want dude. I do hard work daily, it's fulfilling and pays damn well. My technical school loans were paid off inside of a year. I plan to retire comfortably (not baller status, just comfortably) by the time many peoples careers start to kick into high gear. | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On August 02 2011 21:34 sunprince wrote: + Show Spoiler + They really don't. They're largely choosing to do so on their own. These are girls at good universities (in line with the type of girls you find at high-end escort agencies), not girls who are impoverished. For the most part, students at such universities are from middle class or better socioeconomic backgrounds, and typically have their educations funded by their parents. Additionally, government and institutional financial aid is available to virtually all students. In general, these are not girls who are being forced into prostitution. They are of above-average intellect and socioeconomic standing and even if not capable of accessing family funds can typically acquire reasonable paying part or full time jobs (something made even easier given that they're also generally physically attractive). They are choosing to make these arrangements because it is easier than the alternatives, of having to do work-study or pick up a real job. On August 02 2011 21:34 Sporadic44 wrote: + Show Spoiler + This is far and a way a rare situation where this is actually the case. There are systems like financial aid, grants from organizations, and scholarships. Individuals whom go to the most expensive schools often times come from a family with money themselves. When a less fortunate student attends a university they get help. And if they're going to an expensive school chances are good they will make at least decent money upon graduating. Community college is very cheap. Going to a state school in which you have residency, is very cheap. The depiction of these girls on these sites the article gives is a stretch to say the least. If the girl does in fact need to make money from sex, she is either looking for a quick buck, or simply living beyond her means. So if I could answer your question with another question. Do we blame society for putting an emphasis on status (money, car, where you live, what you wear); or do we blame the individual for buying into bullshit? To answer both your messages. I don't have statistics on how many financial aids and scholarships are given, so I based my reasoning on what was in the article : Article + Show Spoiler + The past few years have taken an especially brutal toll on the plans and expectations of 20-somethings. As unemployment rates tick steadily higher, starting salaries have plummeted. Meanwhile, according to Jeffrey Jensen Arnett, a professor of psychology at Clark University, about 85 percent of the class of 2011 will likely move back in with their parents during some period of their post-college years, compared with 40 percent a decade ago. Besides moving back home, many 20-somethings are beginning their adult lives shouldering substantial amounts of student loan debt. According to Mark Kantrowitz, who publishes the financial aid websites Fastweb.com and Finaid.org, while the average 2011 graduate finished school with about $27,200 in debt, many are straining to pay off significantly greater loans. These are the points I want to discuss. When I see that that the average 2011 graduate finished school with a 27k$ debt, I really don't think these girls are "simply living beyond their means" as you're saying. They're just trying to pay their college tuition fees. Some of them, and I agree, could try harder to find a part-time job, not the majority of them. Massive unemployment is not only due to people being lazy. Regarding your new question, I do think we don't blame society enough for putting an emphasis on status, and I'm sure most of people here will agree. (just look at the thread about the guy who sold his kidney and used the money to buy an iPad). But this new question is only relevant if we agree that these girls were living above their means, which is generally not the case. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On August 02 2011 21:23 endy wrote: That's exactly the point I was trying to prove. That people should be shocked by the facts girls have to resort to prostitution to finance studies, instead of taking it lightly saying "oh it's better if it's legal so they get STD tested etc". Obviously, if you ask anyone "if you daughter had to prostitute herself, would you prefer that she does it in a legal as safe as possible way, or that she does it in a filthy brothel ?" the answer will be the legal way. There isn't even a discussion about this. The question we should ask ourselves is why our modern societies reached such a desperate situation that college girls have to sell their bodies only to be able to pay their college fees. edit : glad to see the two posters above being sickened by this "find an arrangement" thing. It's really disgusting. I pointed out that the college fees part is not really the core. A lot of them would do it just for the money anyway, as is happening here. I would say it is more about cultural changes in society regarding sex than about college funding (which in US should really be addressed anyway). | ||
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BadgerBadger8264
Netherlands409 Posts
It's even organised through a corporation, automatically matched up and everything. And to everyone saying "but it's dangerous, they could kill/rape you". Yea they could. If you ask a real estate agent over to your house you could kill her as well. You know what the correlation is? Because of how it's organised, if it happens, they know who did it, they know where he lives, they even know his credit card number. There's a lot of far more dangerous jobs out there where you don't have every little bit of information about the people you meet up with. and should be spending his time (which he obviously has a lot of because he is rich) What? Most rich people work their asses off and the reason they participate in these sort of transactions is because they have no time outside of their job to find a proper partner. What are you smoking? Not everyone rich is like the idiots you see in hollywood movies that inherited all their money and just do nothing for the rest of their lives. Honestly, those are probably amongst the minority. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On August 02 2011 21:35 Diks wrote: Are you merging 2 very different cases into one ? Be cause it seems you do. I highly doubt there was actual urgent need to prostitute herself. US is kind of bad with its safety net, so it is somewhat possible, but in any other first world country prostitution by its citizens is voluntary (or really forced by physical force and that of course is and should be illegal) as no matter how poor you are you get enough money to survive reasonably well . | ||
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sorrowptoss
Canada1431 Posts
On August 02 2011 12:17 BlackJack wrote: You know the economy is bad when you go to college to become a prostitute. Couldn't state it in a better way. | ||
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JesusOurSaviour
United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On August 02 2011 21:37 Casta wrote: Lol. we have free will, anyone knows that. You can steal from that shop, or you can walk away. You can work for a few years to save up before going to college, or you can somehow ... SOMEHOW accumulate a lot of debt, and end of prostituting yourself??????? The problem is that the girls don't want to be prostitutes, they just want to get their degree and pay their bills. They do it out of necessity in some form or another. A lot of decision-making gone wrong. Speaks for how the wrong economics of the American society (job scarcity, expensive college, lack of government support etc) is. For the kids going to college on their own money, abandoned by their parents - then something's gone wrong with the parents as well. Anyhow, you have a choice and the choice to prostitute one self is a choice. Don't say it's dirty and all that afterwards. No one forced you | ||
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Cyx.
Canada806 Posts
On August 02 2011 21:39 TheGiz wrote: While I don't deny that money and sex are attractive qualities in a partner, they are effectively perks, especially money. I know you did say especially money, but I really don't like the idea that sex is just a perk in a relationship. The physical side of a relationship is a huge part of it and if the sex isn't decent then the relationship often falls apart. It's very difficult to maintain a relationship that's not sexual, or where the sex is just really bad, and I think it's one of the most important parts of any relationship. On August 02 2011 21:42 Evilmystic wrote: And the statement about sex is pretty questionable, it may be important for you but it's not for a lot of people and there is no objective reason for it to be important, only personal beliefs and religious/ethical views. same problem, but I'd say this takes it even farther - there is definitely an objective reason for sex to be important. It's the one thing every human being has evolved to do on the planet. The entire biological reason for having a relationship in the first place is to have sex and babies. How can you even think about saying there's no reason for sex to be important besides 'personal beliefs'? Anyways, as far as the actual article goes (lol), I actually agree with a lot of the stuff you've posted so far Evilmystic, especially that prostitution should be legal and regulated. I don't understand how anyone could be against legal prostitution, really - as long as it's the girl's choice I don't see how it's different from anything else. Your body is only as important to you as you make it, and if you don't mind having sex with people why shouldn't you do it for money? I'm an engineering student and I tell people I do it 'cause I like math and building things. So why is it different for a girl to say she's a prostitute and she does it 'cause she likes sex? That being said, what I think about prostitution isn't really relevant to whether the site the article was talking about is actually prostitution or not. And I'd almost say it has to be. Straight up, some of the stories those women told were just 'I went to this guy's house, spent the evening and got some cash in hand.' What's prostitution if not that? To be fair it's clouded because a lot of the women will say, like the last one did, that they don't just do it with anyone. But at the same time, what's stopping some chick turning tricks on the street corner from turning down one of the guys who stops? Nothing but desperation. And that's really the only difference. The girls who are paying off student loans just have time to shop around. So yeah, I think they're prostituting themselves, but at the same time I don't have any problem with it and I don't think any less of people who do it. EDIT: Also, I'd like to point out that 'necessity' for some of these girls doesn't seem to mean what it should. It's not at all 'necessary' for you to complete your degree by the time you're 23. If you've got financial issues, you can work for a few years before you go to school. You've got a lot of life left to live. When people in this thread say 'necessary' it seems like you're saying 'necessary if you want to graduate in four years free of debt and not having taken a bit of time to save some money between high school and university'. Those really aren't the same at all. | ||
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BadgerBadger8264
Netherlands409 Posts
For the kids going to college on their own money, abandoned by their parents - then something's gone wrong with the parents as well. This is a pretty ignorant statement by itself. Families below middle class just struggle to even buy enough food/pay off their bills while working 50-60 hours a week, they simply cannot afford college for their children. Not everyone is born into a middle class family. | ||
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Timestreamer
Israel157 Posts
The fact some people in this thread believe this is disgusting is irrelevant - if you believe this is wrong then don't do it yourself, but don't criticize other people for using their skills, looks, genitalia etc. I personally believe that it's disgusting that beautiful women get paid(a lot!) for modeling and commercial jobs in which everything they do is stand around looking like they always had. Still, I don't see people screaming about it, like they do when it comes to prostitution. I don't openly walk up and down the square preaching them to be incarcerated. | ||
JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On August 02 2011 21:30 Diks wrote: If by consenting you mean forced to do it by need, then no... Have you read the article ? About that girl feeling dirty after doing that shit ? You have some weird definition of consentment my friend... I feel dirty after lying to a friend, we should illegalize lying! The girl knew what she was doing, nobody forced her to do what she did. If she cannot afford a college and is not good enough for a scholarship, then she can always chose not to go onto a college. (I'm not defending that ridiculous system, btw. Just saying that it was her active choice.) | ||
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BadgerBadger8264
Netherlands409 Posts
If by consenting you mean forced to do it by need, then no... Have you read the article ? About that girl feeling dirty after doing that shit ? You have some weird definition of consentment my friend... I feel bad after working an entire day, but I just have to do it in order to survive, why are jobs even legal? | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
And then there is love... sometimes. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On August 02 2011 21:39 TheGiz wrote: Beaches and Shores Seriously, I would never date anyone for any other reason but their compatibility with me. It is disgusting that people would lower themselves in this way, but paying for and selling sex. While I don't deny that money and sex are attractive qualities in a partner, they are effectively perks, especially money. This does not make people happy, it is simply a means to an end. The mere fact that some women could lie to this degree is horrifying, and it makes me question the degree to which I am being lied to by any girl I am with. Neither party actually looks for relationship, but one for sex/act and the other for money. It is means to an end for them. I find it strange that you find that horrifying as it is the world works and worked for millenia. | ||
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