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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect! | ||
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nymfaw
Norway430 Posts
I dont think this man was a psychopath, I think all he wants is to change history. His video includes several facts, among other things, that Muslims will be majority in Europe before people will realize .. Of course, this culture clash looking at things in a historical perspective will not go peacefully. (My english is very poor and I hope mods dont misunderstand. I do not support terrorism) | ||
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banana
Netherlands1189 Posts
If you read it his whole point is actually to cause this massive shock and get media attention and then share his deranged view point on society. I'm not looking forward to monday if they decide to air it or cover it, since it will just give him exactly what he wanted. I mean jail is ment as a punishment, but how do you deal with someone who is willing to go to jail for his crimes. I don't see death as an option either, he does not deserve an easy way off this. | ||
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HellRoxYa
Sweden1614 Posts
On July 24 2011 13:49 banana wrote: Reading his manifesto, seems he's actually not concerned with going to jail. The most shocking thing is that he actually wants his lawyer to help him express his view points and why he did what he did. If you read it his whole point is actually to cause this massive shock and get media attention and then share his deranged view point on society. I'm not looking forward to monday if they decide to air it or cover it, since it will just give him exactly what he wanted. I mean jail is ment as a punishment, but how do you deal with someone who is willing to go to jail for his crimes. I don't see death as an option either, he does not deserve an easy way off this. You make him go to jail and give him as little attention as possible. Personally though I'm very interested in what he has to say, so I hope they do cover it. On July 24 2011 13:02 cz wrote: He also sees himself as defending Norway from Islamicization, and knows he'll go to jail or die after doing what he did, but did it anyway. Psychopaths tend to be very selfish and not care about anyone or anything else besides themselves and dominating others, so his act, which is ideologically motivated and leads to him going to prison / getting killed is not in line with that. From his perspective it's a selfless act that puts himself in danger to save the culture/nation. Not at all a usual psychopaths selfish motivation. Interesting. I'd argue that he's doing it for himself, though. For the fame or just for making himself feel important. | ||
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Badboyrune
Sweden2247 Posts
On July 24 2011 13:10 cz wrote: How do you know he was a psychopath? His actions don't fit that of a normal psychopath, who are very selfish and like to dominate others for their own power and challenge. He just seems very passionate, strongly believing in his views, to the point that he thinks killing other Norweigans is worth it. Psychopaths don't feel empathy, so they fundamentally have no problem hurting/killing people. But this event was emotional, seems to be driven by ideological anger. You can be a very bad person without being a psychopath. If I'm not mistaken psychopaths do feel emotions, just not empathy or any emotions related to it. Anger and even fear doesn't seem too uncommon but only against things that they consider to be a threat, annoyance or any other displeasure to themselves. If he consider that he seems to consider him being Norwegian as possibly the most important part of himself and that he considered cultural Marxists or whatever he called them to be a serious threat against Norwegians it's possible that he actually acted out of a selfishness as much, or more, as out of ideological reasons. It could possibly also be that he actually felt some kind of attachment to Norway as a country, maybe to only thing ever felt some kind of attachment for, in which case it would also be a largely selfish act. Maybe this is stretching it a bit, but it's hard to deny that he has at least some behavioural features that suggests psychopathy. The obvious one is a lack of empathy but there's also the manipulativeness, the narcissism and the apparent charm that are also fairly safe to assume. It's possible to read even more into it but you would have to make some assumptions that are not as safe to assume based on what we know about him at the moment. | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
Edit: ok, I guess that's not exactly the case. It said "Norway's toughest sentence is 21 years in jail" in this article, and that's it. http://news.yahoo.com/norway-suspect-deems-killings-atrocious-needed-013354792.html | ||
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Ksi
357 Posts
On July 24 2011 14:02 AndAgain wrote: It has probably been mentioned, but I just read that Norway's toughest punishment is 21 years in prison. Sounds like heaven for someone who wants to make a political point in this manner. ...and just one page later the cycle repeats itself. | ||
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Bobble
Australia1493 Posts
On July 24 2011 14:02 AndAgain wrote: It has probably been mentioned, but I just read that Norway's toughest punishment is 21 years in prison. Sounds like heaven for someone who wants to make a political point in this manner. you should read the OP, yes, the maximum punishment is 21 years, but with forvaring, which is a system which, if the criminal is deemed unfit for society, they can be jailed for another 4 years, and so on, and so on. | ||
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ThePhan2m
Norway2751 Posts
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Gnax
Sweden490 Posts
On July 24 2011 14:09 ThePhan2m wrote: Why did he surrender? Why is he alive? I think he plans to watch his "work" grow, and one of the part of the plan was to get recognized. Now when he is a famous and people read his manifesto with his idealism. He wants to get others like him inspired and fired up for this cause. Hopefully nothing will grow out of this, but we have seen before, that one shooting will inspire others. Especially when it is this kind of a "success" with so little resources. (Bombs out of fertilizer, which pretty much anyone can do) What he didn't think about is that the police, FBI, etc. will also read that manifesto and it will bring their attention to everything in there. Also, this information and research that he has done is not only gonna help anti-muslim-terrorists but also muslim-terrorists. He will obviously not get what he wants in the end, no matter how much attention he gets. | ||
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hotbreakfest
United States145 Posts
On July 24 2011 14:06 Bobble wrote: you should read the OP, yes, the maximum punishment is 21 years, but with forvaring, which is a system which, if the criminal is deemed unfit for society, they can be jailed for another 4 years, and so on, and so on. What I'm worried about is the potential loop holes. The guy gets his 21 years and then acts like he's reformed. I'm sure there is probably a lot more to this, but the fact that he has a chance at dodging a life sentence bothers me a lot. Maybe someone who is savvy with Norway's legal system can fill me in. | ||
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Gnax
Sweden490 Posts
On July 24 2011 14:23 hotbreakfest wrote: What I'm worried about is the potential loop holes. The guy gets his 21 years and then acts like he's reformed. I'm sure there is probably a lot more to this, but the fact that he has a chance at dodging a life sentence bothers me a lot. Maybe someone who is savvy with Norway's legal system can fill me in. Stop arguing about this. It's been like 20 pages now. He will never be released to the society ever. Are you high or something? | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On July 24 2011 14:32 Gnax wrote: Stop arguing about this. It's been like 20 pages now. He will never be released to the society ever. Are you high or something? lol Don't say stop arguing and then offer your position within that same paragraph. | ||
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hotbreakfest
United States145 Posts
On July 24 2011 14:32 Gnax wrote: Stop arguing about this. It's been like 20 pages now. He will never be released to the society ever. Are you high or something? Well sorry that I haven't read all 83 pages. No need to resort to insults. | ||
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Deja Thoris
South Africa646 Posts
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
Personally, I'm amazed that he was so dedicated to his cause and yet is either remarkably good at copy pasting from wikipedia or well read. He identifies himself as conservative, but he is really a reactionary. | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On July 24 2011 14:45 Caller wrote: The sad thing is some of the things he says in the manifesto are actually legitimate concerns, and people are going to associate people who believe in freedom of speech with this guy. Personally, I'm amazed that he was so dedicated to his cause and yet is either remarkably good at copy pasting from wikipedia or well read. He identifies himself as conservative, but he is really a reactionary. I'm surprised he didn't think things through - when I first thought this was an Islamic terrorist attack, I thought it would really push the right-wing parties in Europe even more strongly. I feel his attack though has damaged his own cause. On the other hand it might spur more action towards it. | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On July 24 2011 14:51 cz wrote: I'm surprised he didn't think things through - when I first thought this was an Islamic terrorist attack, I thought it would really push the right-wing parties in Europe even more strongly. I feel his attack though has damaged his own cause. On the other hand it might spur more action towards it. Upon further reading of his manifesto while his views of Cultural Marxism are actually well read, his indictments of Islam seem to be more hastily put together in order to back his view without it seeming like there are inaccuracies regarding his sources. If he really wanted to make the manifesto legit he wouldn't put hyperlinks of his sources in the middle of the manifesto. In other words, he's that type of crazy. | ||
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ComusLoM
Norway3547 Posts
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Gnax
Sweden490 Posts
Thanks for ruining an awesome song for me, now I will never be able to listen to that song without thinking about that :S | ||
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