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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect! |
On July 24 2011 00:08 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +Why should we kill people that kill people, to show people that killing is wrong? Mostly to show people that if you do something horrible the government can and will end your life. It doesn't really stop anyone but it makes the public feel better and some people just don't deserve to live.
Actually it doesn't make the public feel better. Maybe the US public. Certainly not the Norwegian society.
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On July 24 2011 00:08 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +Why should we kill people that kill people, to show people that killing is wrong? Mostly to show people that if you do something horrible the government can and will end your life. It doesn't really stop anyone but it makes the public feel better and some people just don't deserve to live.
this might work on some communities, but certainly not in todays europe
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On July 24 2011 00:15 butchji wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:08 DeepElemBlues wrote:Why should we kill people that kill people, to show people that killing is wrong? Mostly to show people that if you do something horrible the government can and will end your life. It doesn't really stop anyone but it makes the public feel better and some people just don't deserve to live. Actually it doesn't make the public feel better. Maybe the US public. Certainly not the Norwegian society.
I love how every single thread that even relates to weapons or something of this nature devolves into a shitting on USA contest.
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On July 23 2011 20:41 Aylear wrote:
"He deserves to fry. Norway's justice system is retarded for giving him decent living conditions for the rest of his life."
Really? Killing this human being would bring back the other human beings? Would it lessen the blow of our loss? Most Norwegians don't see it that way; we don't agree with this biblical desire for vengeance. Granted, in this particular case I'm sure some Norwegians will feel differently, but we aren't going to completely alter our justice system for just one man. Even this depraved individual will not get that dubious honour.
I thought I would just mention that the desire for vengeance isn't really a solely Biblical thing, and depending on how you take the New Testament into account, it could be considered rather unbiblical.
I think the desire for vengeance is more of just a gut, angry, human reaction. No one wants to hear about bombings and people getting massacred at a summer camp. Its just mind boggling to most of us that someone would do that and the first thing most people jump to is "Kill the bastard, he deserves it." With news so terrible, not many people think their initial reaction through considering all of these things. Logically, the Norse justice system may very well be better, but after hearing about 80 plus deaths, I think most people just want to see the people responsible pay with as much pain as they caused.
I'm not mad or anything (about his phrasing; I'm furious about this whole incident ), I just thought I would describe how it seems to me since a lot of discussion is being done about their legal system and its merits.
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On July 23 2011 14:33 Fionn wrote:A cell in Halden Prison, Norway's newest high security prison (Trent Isaksen/Statsbygg) ![[image loading]](http://prisonlaw.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/celle_600_0.jpg)
You have got to be kidding me...
No doubt he'll spend the next 21 years thinking he's a misunderstood hero and writing memoirs of the shooting at that very desk. I don't buy into the Norweigen imprisonment system that stresses rehabilitation. If you're crazy enough to shoot dozens of children as they beg for their life, you think he's going to change his views and magically become a reasonable person? Of course not. He's thanking the stars that he lives in a country where he can watch TV, read books, and get decent food on Norweigen citizens' dime. All while living in a room nicer than most are accustomed to. There are some who have lost their right to live on this planet., and this man is one of them. I think Timothy McVeigh's punishment was perfectly suitable and should be considered.
Also, I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but the wikipedia article says it took police over two hours to respond on the island... Is this true??
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There is only one form of punishment that is fitting for this guy, outisde of what the judicial system come up with. He should be made to face, one-on-one, all the relatives and friends of the people he murdered. 1 hours minimum, and people should be encouraged to bring photos and films of his victims. This sicko needs to realize that he has destroyed 92 (and counting) lives and futures. Once he realizes that I'd be surprised if he can live with himself.
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On July 23 2011 23:59 MoneyHypeMike wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 23:57 MasterFischer wrote:
Kill him, and you solve the problem. Killing him won't do anything but approving what he did. Why are people so emotional?
Since when did ending someones life give validation to there opinions. We hanged men for war crimes at the Nuremburg trials. It didn't make those killed "right" it just made them dead.
Regardless, no government or court in Europe these days will seriously advocate the death penalty but capturing this man alive does represent a grave problem. He may use his imprisonment and trial as a platform to preach his message. People think martyr's are dangerous but it's ones still breathing that pose the most threat. Dead men give no speachs.
Can this man be tried in private? What are the laws in Norway concerning non-civilian courts? Can this man be taken to a military tribunal for terrorism or treason?
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On July 24 2011 00:16 DoXa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:08 DeepElemBlues wrote:Why should we kill people that kill people, to show people that killing is wrong? Mostly to show people that if you do something horrible the government can and will end your life. It doesn't really stop anyone but it makes the public feel better and some people just don't deserve to live. this might work on some communities, but certainly not in todays europe
Yeah in todays Europe they give the guy the VIP suite. Such heroes.
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Thanks to the op for supplying alot of information and the Norwegian members of teamliquid for translating the survivor reports that helped me make a thread on another forum I frequent. My heart goes out to Norway and the people affected by this National tragedy.
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On July 24 2011 00:09 R3m3mb3rM3 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:08 DeepElemBlues wrote:Why should we kill people that kill people, to show people that killing is wrong? Mostly to show people that if you do something horrible the government can and will end your life. It doesn't really stop anyone but it makes the public feel better and some people just don't deserve to live. do you seriously think the fear of death will stop sick minds to make their massacres?
Perhaps not for some, but for the majority, yes, yes it will.
I've read several accounts of serial killers and alike, who was afraid of dying, on deathrow, they really was fucking piss scared, just like they deserved to be.
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On July 24 2011 00:16 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:15 butchji wrote:On July 24 2011 00:08 DeepElemBlues wrote:Why should we kill people that kill people, to show people that killing is wrong? Mostly to show people that if you do something horrible the government can and will end your life. It doesn't really stop anyone but it makes the public feel better and some people just don't deserve to live. Actually it doesn't make the public feel better. Maybe the US public. Certainly not the Norwegian society. I love how every single thread that even relates to weapons or something of this nature devolves into a shitting on USA contest.
I can tell u why...
Some of you just come to this threat saying just kill him and move on ...
And that makes most of the europe people really angry im pretty sorry to have pushed this in this direction it has nothing to do with the topic.
But really dont say something like this pls
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On July 24 2011 00:17 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 14:33 Fionn wrote:A cell in Halden Prison, Norway's newest high security prison (Trent Isaksen/Statsbygg) You have got to be kidding me... No doubt he'll spend the next 21 years thinking he's a misunderstood hero and writing memoirs of the shooting at that very desk. I don't buy into the Norweigen imprisonment system that stresses rehabilitation. If you're crazy enough to shoot dozens of children as they beg for their life, you think he's going to change his views and magically become a reasonable person? Of course not. He's thanking the stars that he lives in a country where he can watch TV, read books, and get decent food on Norweigen citizens' dime. All while living in a room nicer than most are accustomed to. There are some who have lost their right to live on this planet., and this man is one of them. I think Timothy McVeigh's punishment was perfectly suitable and should be considered. Also, I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but the wikipedia article says it took police over two hours to respond on the island... Is this true??
WORD BRO, WORD.
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On July 24 2011 00:17 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 14:33 Fionn wrote:A cell in Halden Prison, Norway's newest high security prison (Trent Isaksen/Statsbygg) You have got to be kidding me... No doubt he'll spend the next 21 years thinking he's a misunderstood hero and writing memoirs of the shooting at that very desk. I don't buy into the Norweigen imprisonment system that stresses rehabilitation. If you're crazy enough to shoot dozens of children as they beg for their life, you think he's going to change his views and magically become a reasonable person? Of course not. He's thanking the stars that he lives in a country where he can watch TV, read books, and get decent food on Norweigen citizens' dime. All while living in a room nicer than most are accustomed to. There are some who have lost their right to live on this planet., and this man is one of them. I think Timothy McVeigh's punishment was perfectly suitable and should be considered. Also, I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but the wikipedia article says it took police over two hours to respond on the island... Is this true??
Well, their system is actually proven to be one of the best in the world so yeah...
And can we please stop talking about what his life is gonna be like in the rest of his life UNTIL WE KNOW WHAT FUCKING SENTANCE HE´S GOTTEN. No reason to talk about "ooh, he´s gonna have it so nice I cant believe it!" until we even know what will happen to him.
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On July 24 2011 00:19 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:16 Olinim wrote:On July 24 2011 00:15 butchji wrote:On July 24 2011 00:08 DeepElemBlues wrote:Why should we kill people that kill people, to show people that killing is wrong? Mostly to show people that if you do something horrible the government can and will end your life. It doesn't really stop anyone but it makes the public feel better and some people just don't deserve to live. Actually it doesn't make the public feel better. Maybe the US public. Certainly not the Norwegian society. I love how every single thread that even relates to weapons or something of this nature devolves into a shitting on USA contest. I can tell u why... Some of you just come to this threat saying just kill him and move on ... And that makes most of the europe people really angry im pretty sorry to have pushed this in this direction it has nothing to do with the topic. But really dont say something like this pls
Yes I'm sure that only makes Europeans angry, us Americans are certainly incapable of opposing the death penalty because we are obviously savages.
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On July 24 2011 00:16 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:15 butchji wrote:On July 24 2011 00:08 DeepElemBlues wrote:Why should we kill people that kill people, to show people that killing is wrong? Mostly to show people that if you do something horrible the government can and will end your life. It doesn't really stop anyone but it makes the public feel better and some people just don't deserve to live. Actually it doesn't make the public feel better. Maybe the US public. Certainly not the Norwegian society. I love how every single thread that even relates to weapons or something of this nature devolves into a shitting on USA contest.
or a dozens posts about how a country should handle its own laws. don't assume what may work for your country does also in another.
On July 24 2011 00:18 DannyJ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:16 DoXa wrote:On July 24 2011 00:08 DeepElemBlues wrote:Why should we kill people that kill people, to show people that killing is wrong? Mostly to show people that if you do something horrible the government can and will end your life. It doesn't really stop anyone but it makes the public feel better and some people just don't deserve to live. this might work on some communities, but certainly not in todays europe Yeah in todays Europe they give the guy the VIP suite. Such heroes.
that's not true at all. it's just human rights.
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On July 24 2011 00:03 MasterFischer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 23:59 MoneyHypeMike wrote:On July 23 2011 23:57 MasterFischer wrote:
Kill him, and you solve the problem. Killing him won't do anything but approving what he did. Why are people so emotional? Who convinced you of that? How is approving what he did possible, just by killing him? I don't understand this argument, and probaly never will. Who are you to judge what is fair and what's not? Killing him, approves that what he did was WRONG. It's his punishment for commiting this brutal crime.
Death penalty does not exist in Norway and hopefully never will. Why speak of killing him when that's not even an option?
Also I'd love to see your credentials for telling us rehabilitation WILL not work on this person, ever. The collegial penal system experts in Sweden and Norway(and probably Denmark aswell) are of a different oppinion, and if he's still a danger to the society after 21 years he will remain locked up.
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On July 24 2011 00:19 MasterFischer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:09 R3m3mb3rM3 wrote:On July 24 2011 00:08 DeepElemBlues wrote:Why should we kill people that kill people, to show people that killing is wrong? Mostly to show people that if you do something horrible the government can and will end your life. It doesn't really stop anyone but it makes the public feel better and some people just don't deserve to live. do you seriously think the fear of death will stop sick minds to make their massacres? Perhaps not for some, but for the majority, yes, yes it will. I've read several accounts of serial killers and alike, who was afraid of dying, on deathrow, they really was fucking piss scared, just like they deserved to be.
And did that stop them? no as you just said: "serial killers"..
And this guy killing 90+ people isn't some, and it's this guy we're discussing.
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On July 24 2011 00:17 larssto wrote:
There is only one form of punishment that is fitting for this guy, outisde of what the judicial system come up with. He should be made to face, one-on-one, all the relatives and friends of the people he murdered. 1 hours minimum, and people should be encouraged to bring photos and films of his victims. This sicko needs to realize that he has destroyed 92 (and counting) lives and futures. Once he realizes that I'd be surprised if he can live with himself.
^^^^^^^^ Everything about this.
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How much time did it take for police to get there since the first calls from island? One and a half hours? Isnt that a bit strange?
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On July 24 2011 00:21 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:03 MasterFischer wrote:On July 23 2011 23:59 MoneyHypeMike wrote:On July 23 2011 23:57 MasterFischer wrote:
Kill him, and you solve the problem. Killing him won't do anything but approving what he did. Why are people so emotional? Who convinced you of that? How is approving what he did possible, just by killing him? I don't understand this argument, and probaly never will. Who are you to judge what is fair and what's not? Killing him, approves that what he did was WRONG. It's his punishment for commiting this brutal crime. Death penalty does not exist in Norway and hopefully never will. Why speak of killing him when that's not even an option? Also I'd love to see your credentials for telling us rehabilitation WILL not work on this person, ever. The collegial penal system experts in Sweden and Norway(and probably Denmark aswell) are of a different oppinion, and if he's still a danger to the society after 21 years he will remain locked up.
I know the death penalty does not exist, but I wish it did. That's all I was really getting at. The fact that it SHOULD be instated, but I know it never will be, sadly.
I'm not saying rehabilitation will never work, but in case of this maniac, I don't think it will. Do you have any cases as severe as this, where the criminal just suddently from a blue sky, turned 180 degreees, and now all of the sudden was rehabilitated?
I don't remember the documentary I once saw, but I'm pretty sure alot of statistics shows, that criminals involved in brutal crimes like this, is BOUND to do something in that fashion again, if given the chance.
You can't tell me that a man murdering 92 people in cold blood, will just rehabilitate himself just like that... I simply don't see it happening... given what I know about the human phyche and what not.
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EPT
