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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect! |
On July 23 2011 22:58 gravethrasher wrote:
The ironic thing is that he represents a political view and political party that supports harsher laws, to integrate a foreign friendly economic policy and right wing agenda. And this is exactly what the foreign contries will force upon norway now as most of u are doing in this thread. And this is EXACTLY what the vicitms stood against, and in the end he is winning
As of now it looks quite the opposite. The PM told not to loose the spirit of freedom and democracy and foreign countries can say whatever they want. That's your country.
I think Norway will not lose against him. Other countries would perhaps fall down and do similar things like a certain country i will not name, but Norway has a strong believe in what they do as far as i have seen it now.
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On July 23 2011 22:52 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 22:48 RoosterSamurai wrote:On July 23 2011 22:42 Sqq wrote:
People also need to know that he can't be released into society. Ever. He would be killed as soon as he went outside the prison walls. I don't really understand how a society that "Doesn't want or need a death penalty" would remember this guy for 21 years and then kill him once he's released from prison. I'm reading a lot of mixed signals from the Norwegians in this thread... Also, it's really sad that some maniac would do this do a bunch of kids. How can somebody do that? We as a society believe that prison is a rehabilitation center, not a parking space for criminals to rot. The problem is we have criminals in our society like others, and it would be very popular among them to get the kill on him for status inside their areas. Unlike the US, we have a totally different view on prison and guns. Its just the way we are. We look at you and we're as shocked by the way you conduct prison terms, as you are at us now.
I think what the poster meant was - you guys say you don't want life sentences or the death penalty. But you are saying the guy is going to get forvaring anyway. So basically you're saying you do want a life sentence for him but you just don't want to call it a life sentence, you just call it forvaring instead.
Update via PM:
Original Message From Sqq:
If we introduce it now, people will yell about it on other murder cases also. Forvaring is used when there is extra ordinary situations, like this one. Its kind of like a life sentence yes, but we do not want it as a normal option for murder. Guys like this guy, gang leaders etc, have gotten Forvaring, but they sometimes get Forvaring based on how rehabilitated the prison system feel they are. So instead of slapping life sentence on someone they get 21 years + Forvaring.
So. Guy serves 21 years, prison system says you are not rehabilitated yet, we are going to keep you here til we feel you can enter society again. Some people get out because they are rehabilitated according to the system. This guy obviously will be kept for life obviously since people will fear him if he gets out. Society is also in the equation.
Life sentence, no mater what you've done you're stuck. We believe in rehabilitation for everyone.
+ Show Spoiler +Thank you for this explanation. However bear in mind that a life sentence takes those factors into account as well - when a judge looks at imposing one, he or she will also consider the factors such as whether or not they feel they can re-enter society and society's views. I appreciate you writing this explanation for me.
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On July 23 2011 23:02 Influ wrote:
Watched a report today about this on ntv which one of the big 2 german news channel in germany. They talked about his facebook and that he played the killer video game world of warcraft. german media at it's best...
Finnish media said the same. Gotta be proud of our media. -_-
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On July 23 2011 22:57 Ilvy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 22:42 gravethrasher wrote:
I wrote a post on this subject on exactly this sort of episode last week in a thread about black metal and Varg Vikernes, and and there is a strong connection there. Its very easy to label this guy a monster, or insane, and there are people out there who is like that, but there truth might be awhole lot more frightning, that this guy is just human. My guess he does not have kids, and has a sterile christian lifestyle without drugs and parties, sex, disconnected from people, fiercly independant growing his own food and being self reliant, which leaves him totally commited to what he does mainly computer games and politics.His unaffected by materialism, jobs, and daily concerns of most people. He got to a point where he found out what needed to be done according to his own belief system, and did it, with with no regards to his own safety and no emotional breaks stopping him. Norway's one of the most difficult contries to integrate in, where people are very distant and dont really wanna mingle with strangers much unless they are drunk as norways got the worst drinking culture in the world. U will get no sympathy for ur problems here, as its got such a strong economy, and low crime and violence, theres nothing obvious to complain about and problems very subtle. Its a castrated society which resembles the 1984 existance alot more then other places and a soulless existance (and western conservative spirituality is a poor source of spirituality). People dont walk up to other people to talk to them here, or your seen as a nutjob. Shy people in norway gets isolated away, I dont expect him to have been violently abused, even though that might have happened, there is a bigger probability that his just been chipped and chiseled for a long time, left on his own to the point of not caring about or rather being totally neutral towards people sort of like a machine, forced into a form of political cannibalism.
Increasing punishment and arming police only makes things worse. If this guy knew he was facing exectution or torture, the situation could of been alot worse. And suspecting and stigmatising people also makes things worse and theres no point attack the things thats great with Norway. The problem lies in society in itself in all of us, i really dont see a way out personally. Im not removing responsibility in his actions btw, just explaining what may have shaped the framework for his mindset You are native norwegian or just living there? Because you are one of the most realistic ppl there i´ve seen now. Beside of the "arming police makes thinks worse". Problem is that everyone on norway is able to own weapons, any kind of weapons but the police is not trustfull enough for beeing armed? Isn´t that kinda shizo? Even if the island would have been full of police they wouldn´t have been able to protect the kids from what happend, so they are kinda useless and just are used to write your fines?
As far as I know, people need to either take some Hunter's test and/or be part of gun clubs over a certain span of time or take tests in order to own guns. I may be wrong, of course.
As for the police being unarmed - criminals are far more likely to be dangerous if the police is dangerous, so to speak. So even if it didn't help much in this case, it may very well make things more peaceful in the large picture.
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Yeah i read that he played the war simulation world of warcraft... It's always the same shit in germany. I think starting this videogame debate in germany is disrespectful to the victims and people in norway. 90 people got slaughtered by a maniac, so yeah, lets start the debate about killergames like world of warcraft. This makes me so furious.
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Just have to say, reading the updated edit in the OP about how Norway's prime minister, police force, and media outlets (and the people) are responding is really nice to hear. I wish more countries had the commitment to facts over sensationalizing and guesswork, of maintaining the spirit of a free and open society in the face of terrorism. They have their priorities straight, and don't give in to fear because they understand what the whole point of a free, democratic society is about. Its pretty encouraging to see a whole nation of people with such a strong commitment to these ideals.
I hope gravethrasher you're wrong in your predictions  . I for one think that they'll be just fine.
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The explosion supposedly shook the entire building where I live --- about 700 meters from the heart of the explosion --- and it managed to create new cracks in the wall. The explosion was big; the bomb was fashioned from 3 tonnes of fertilizer. As far as I know thus far, none of my friends were hurt.
I listened to the radio all day yesterday. The news got even worse today, with more information about Utøya released. Even though every single piece of news released have been absolutely horrible, I was very relieved to hear that most of the people in the news held their composure and the cold logic of terrorism fixed in their mind as they chose their words with care.
Norway is an incredibly open society, as I am sure you have all heard time and time again these last 24 hours; and it really is! It is a belief held firmly by many that our conceptualisation of justice is an important aspect of what will hopefully keep it so: suspicion and hatred breeds demons, so let's keep our heads clear and show each other some compassion. This attitude seems (almost) universal among all the people I've heard from today and yesterday. It has been very nice to see that we have not, so far, forgotten who we are.
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Yeah but he wanted that all to happen i doupt he really played those games.
His facebook is fake set up to make the media play the little funny game they like to...
Blame all the gamers, christs and everyone he likes to point them to...
Thats another really sad thing...
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funny they dont talk about the other game mentioned in his facebook: cod mw2
airport level anyone? ...
i guess its just a matter of time.
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On July 23 2011 23:08 Chilling5pr33 wrote:
Yeah but he wanted that all to happen i doupt he really played those games.
His facebook is fake set up to make the media play the little funny game they like to...
Blame all the gamers, christs and everyone he likes to point them to...
Thats another really sad thing...
Read the thread before posting something like this, please.
On July 23 2011 23:08 Corvi wrote:
funny they dont talk about the other game mentioned in his facebook: cod mw2
airport level anyone? ...
i guess its just a matter of time.
Would't call it "funny". Sad, yes.
I think most of the "killer-game" thing is because they mess up WoW and MW2 because obviously the journalists don't know any of them.
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On July 23 2011 22:59 Varela wrote:
Can someone clarify for me in gun laws in Norway? Do you need a permit of some sort? Dont want to start more off topic discussion, just trying to figure out how the hell did he get hold to the guns.
We have a dualistic weapon law: A huge amount of norwegians has a gun, in the sense of a hunting rifle, shotgun, and some sporting pistols and that sort.
Combat weapons is not common at at all, and fully automatic weapons are basically not allowed. Even the home guard branch of our army is basically disarmed, in that the soldiers needs to hand in a vital piece of their assault rifle, basically dismantling it.
We do have a license system as you would expect. You need to be a member of a shooting club, or hunter, to get a license to own your own weapon.
We have a rifle association, but please don't see this as conservative politicial force, it is mostly about sports:
http://www.dfs.no/en/
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On July 23 2011 23:08 Corvi wrote:
funny they dont talk about the other game mentioned in his facebook: cod mw2
airport level anyone? ...
i guess its just a matter of time.
Yeah, if it would have anything to do with violent psycopath killer games of doom, It'd surely be more towards MW2 than World of Warcraft - but that's just the media knowing shit of anything. That's no news.
But if you're willing/insane enough to go on a killingspree, it's not due to a game. It's because you're fucked up in the head.
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On July 23 2011 22:57 Sqq wrote:
Sympathizer with the murderer has been raided. Idiot called in. He got uprehended with 2 weapons and a body armor. wtf is wrong with people.
What an idiot. Thank god he is so stupid
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On July 23 2011 23:10 Ghad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 22:59 Varela wrote:
Can someone clarify for me in gun laws in Norway? Do you need a permit of some sort? Dont want to start more off topic discussion, just trying to figure out how the hell did he get hold to the guns. We have a dualistic weapon law: A huge amount of norwegians has a gun, in the sense of a hunting rifle, shotgun, and some sporting pistols and that sort. Combat weapons is not common at at all, and fully automatic weapons are basically not allowed. Even the home guard branch of our army is basically disarmed, in that the soldiers needs to hand in a vital piece of their assault rifle, basically dismantling it. We do have a license system as you would expect. You need to be a member of a shooting club, or hunter, to get a license to own your own weapon. We have a rifle association, but please don't see this as conservative politicial force, it is mostly about sports: http://www.dfs.no/en/
I think it is also important to specify that Norwegians own guns for hunting or sport, and not because of any constitutional right to own a gun for self defense
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I think Norway's murder rate is like 40 average a year, and in a single day to more than double that, most of the victims being children?, incredible tragedy.
On July 23 2011 22:11 Dr_Jones wrote:
Interestingly, there is a current survey on facebook asking the question "Should Norway change it's laws so Anders Behring Breivik can be sentenced to death?"
Results as of now:
Yes: 2'006 votes
No: 5'674 votes
Unsure: 158 votes
Much respect for Norway!
Even if it's just a facebook poll, in a situacion like this I would expect 80%+ in favor of sentencing him to death, just goes to show the maturity of norwegian society.
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Not sure if this is appropriate to post but apparently this is a video of a boat passing through the island:
Its spoilered cuze the images are disburbing.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 23 2011 23:18 TheBJ wrote:Not sure if this is appropriate to post but apparently this is a video of a boat passing through the island: + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY-KOeSLxJM&
The comments on that video by some of the trolls are disgusting.
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Can people please stop derailing the thread about discussion of legal systems... thats really not the place to do so...
This is a very tragic event and i just would like to say that everyone here feels with the people of Norway and sends theire sincere condolences.
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On July 23 2011 23:18 TheBJ wrote:Not sure if this is appropriate to post but apparently this is a video of a boat passing through the island: Its spoilered cuze the images are disburbing. + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY-KOeSLxJM&
It's in the OP, already.
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On July 23 2011 23:13 dangerjoe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 22:57 Sqq wrote:
Sympathizer with the murderer has been raided. Idiot called in. He got uprehended with 2 weapons and a body armor. wtf is wrong with people. What an idiot. Thank god he is so stupid
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he didn't call himself in because he's stupid, but rather that he called himself in because he felt guilty and needed to come clean.
Normally people don't turn themselves in by accident. Either way, If this individual has a connection with the massacre, i hope he gets what he deserves in prison time. It's a reprehensible thing.
This just keeps getting worse.
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EPT
