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[Old] The massacre in Norway - Page 40

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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect!
Graham
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada1259 Posts
July 23 2011 13:55 GMT
#781
Woke up this morning and read through the main post regarding the topic on Reddit (even had a reference to TL in relation to a translated article) and the entire situation seems very, very fucked up.

Even remember hearing about the bombing yesterday and the reports of shootings was just a side-story and now to hear that it wasn't "just a side-story" and that a lot of TEENS (WTF) lost their life to some guy on a pretty desolate island is really disturbing.

My condolences to the victims families and the grieving nation of Norway.
RogerX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
New Zealand3180 Posts
July 23 2011 13:55 GMT
#782
On July 23 2011 22:50 CCow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 22:46 SEA_GenesiS wrote:
Oh god.. WHY would anyone do this.. This is just indescribeable.. That video footage was the worst things I've ever seen in my life... 84 bright futures gone.. Bless Norway.

Whats really strange is that his Facebook is... surprisingly very very normal...


His facebook and twitter were set up on July 17th, it is pretty likely a mirror of how he wants the world to see him. Kind of sad seeing quite some (at least german) media focusing so much on his facebook.
Also, as stated before he posted links to musicvideos on his facebook. The songtitles in chronological order are:

Fireworks
Out of the Sky
Let It All Out
Insomnia
After All
Big Sky
Sound of Goodbye
Ere the World Crumbles
Hold on to Me
Holding on to Nothing
Freefalling

Which in retroperspective is very disturbing to read.

e: Plus his only tweet was: "One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100.000 who have only interests"

>all this has also been posted earlier on in this thread.


Thats insane... And it makes sense that he would try to disguise himself as much as possible.

The world is a scary place.
Stick it up. take it up. step aside and see the world
Eeevil
Profile Joined May 2008
Netherlands359 Posts
July 23 2011 13:56 GMT
#783
Not sure if this has been posted. Translated eye witness report.

http://www.facebook.com/notes/nina-volstad/english-translation-of-utøya-shooting-victims-account/10150261405003948

+ Show Spoiler +
English translation of Utøya-shooting victim´s account
by Nina Volstad on Saturday, July 23, 2011 at 9:24am
23 year old Khamshajiny Gunaratnam was one of the youths attending AUF´s summercamp at Utøya where a machine-gun desperado killed at least 80 yesterday (July 22nd 2011).

Kamzy´s gripping account of fleeing for her life can be found in Norwegian at her blog
http://kamzy.no/2011/07/23/den-verste-dagen-i-mitt-liv/

Below you have my English translation - word by word.

Love to Kamzy and all others touched by this unbelievable tragedy

-----
"The worst day of my life"

I´m still in shock. Just got home. Prableen´s dad drove us from Sundvollen Hotel.
I´m actually still in shock. I can´t shed a single tear. I can´t believe it: Today I actually almost got killed. Hunted and killed.
What can I say? The last normal thought in my head was about the AUF´s organization of students. I had just been to a political workshop (that´s what we do at Utøya) – and was on my way up tp the AUF-shop where I was going to take a shift.

A good friend came over and informed me of the explosion that had happened in oslo. Sick! The Government-block and Youngstorget?! Of course many were concerned. The atmosphere wasn´t exactly great, many thought this to be the worst moment at Utøya this year, but then things started happening. I had a lump in my throat. The biggest one ever.

We were first summoned to an info-meeting by the leaders in order for everyone to get the same (and correct) information. This meeting was helpful and went well. Most people got hold of their family members in Oslo and checked that they were alive. I couldn´t get hold of anyone in my family for ages! When I finally got a confirmation that three of them we´re out of town and that one was at work far away from the city – then I could breath. Really. I went back to the AUF-shop.

The General Secretary Tonje Brenna came over and spoke to me. Wondered if I needed someone to talk to. Then we heard shots from down the hill. Who the fuck is fooling around now, we thought. Who didn´t think it was just a joke?

Suddenly I saw all the security guys running upwards telling us “to hide”, “run into the main building” etc. I ran to the loos just by the AUF-shop. The shots came closer. I was quite sure that this was some “joke”, but you can nevner know for sure, as today has shown us. The seconds in that loo were horrible. Slowly but surely I managed to set my mobile to silent and put it in my bra so I wouldn´t loose it. I took of my purse and put it on the floor. When I finally heard a familiar voice I came out.

But it wasn´t over. We had to run behind the NATO-loo (as it´s called) and downwards to the corner, to the right of the jetty. We fell and tripped through a lot of bushes and huge rocks. I got a lot of cuts. There were probably 15-20 persons, maybe? I was stressed out. Matti held me and calmed me.

We ran and ran. The worst was when we got to know: The shooter was dresses as a policeman. Fucking hell.

In that case, who could we trust? If we call the police – then this guy will come and check or what? But we did try to call the police! They used a damn long time. So I gave my phone to Munir and asked him to update Facebook saying that everyone with a boat on the fiord had to help us.

We ran back and forth when the shots drew nearer. Matti said we had to swim. But how would I manage that, thaaat far?

Trond Agnar suddenly appeared. He said that severeal had tried to swim, but had returned because it was too cold, too far, too difficult simply. But do you know what? I´d rather drown than be shot. Sorry. I took my shirt off, and by Matti´s encouragement started swimming. It got heavy, so I had to remove my trousers too. Soo cold.

I swam. Matti saved me. He said the right things and he did the right things. He made me swim – SO far. When we´d swam some distance Matti said: “Kamzy, don´t look back. Look towards the land on the other side and think that that´s you goal.”

“Ok” I said. We heard shots all the time, and I´m still surprised that me or Matti didn´t get hit. (But, I was told later that he stood there. That was why Matti told me to look straight ahead. He stood exactly in the spot where we´d just been hiding. My God! Nad he´d tried to shoot at us. We were hunted.

But I swam. Then boats came to rescue us. One of the boats threw lifevests and then had to drive on. Then the next boat came and got us. Even when we were in the boat I couldn´t relax. It wasn´t like a “yes, we´re saved”-spirit. He could still hit us with his machine-gun! I got down on the floor of the boat immediately. I didn´t feel safe. Not at all.

Some of the locals helped us when we arrived. They gave us towels and drove us to the Esso- gasstation where the police and ambulancepersonell were waiting. I was in shock. I couldn´t shed a single tear. Hadn´t is dawned on me?
Suganthan came over to me with my mobile and apologized for it not working any more. Dear Suganthan, I´m just happy you´re alive!

Anniken Huitfeldt (ed. profiled AP politician) called me and talked to me. I have no idea who´s phone it was, a girl came over to me and told me that Anniken wanted to speak to me. And I asked her: “What the hell took the police so long?”. She agreed. And tried to calm me, asking what happened.

A really nice girl who worked there got us clothes and warm drinks. I also got to call my dad. I´m so happy he handles these things calmly – even though he was worried sick.

An then we went on. Everyone had to go to Sundvollen Hotel. There we had to register and assemble.

We were amongst the first to arrive. That´s why we saw one after another arriving.. crying and screaming. I understand them so well. I just couldn´t understand, and still can´t understand why I couldn´t shed a tear. I just want to get out of this state of shock I´m in. I want to get out of here. I rode with Prableen and got home to dad who was waiting for me.
Coz I´m still in shock. Who does that? Blowing up important buildings in Oslo and killing the future politicians of the Arbeider-party (ed. AP) who are attending summercamp at Utøya. What wrong have we done?

Those who resort to violence have run out of arguments. How could he do this to my AUF-friends? It seems so surrealistic. I don´t understand. I can´t comprehend.

I recommend every one to watch Jens Stoltenberg (ed. Norwegian PM, AP politician) and Knut Storberget´s (ed. Norwegian Minister of Justice, AP politician), press conference:
http://www.vgtv.no/#!id=42403

“No one shall bomb us to silence. No one shall shoot us to silence” – this is what Jens Stoltenberg says and I total agree with him.

But first of all my thoughts go to all family and friends. This is the time to take good care of each other. Contribute and lift each other. Comfort each other. And show the warmest parts we humans have.

But I´m still in shock. And that´s the reason why I´m writing this note. I can´t bear to tell the story again and again. That was a short version of what happened. On my part. But the fear that was there all the time… I don´t think I can describe that. We were also informed constantly of who had been shot etc – I´ve left that out. It´s inconsiderate towards their family and friends. They deserve better. We don´t deserve to die. And that´s why I´m writing this. We´re just normal youth. We participate in politics. We want to make the world a better place - I missed the part where WE became the bad guys.

Thinking of every single one of you that were at Utøya today. I really hope everyone survives. You deserve better. It was important for me to share this. It is important.
Dance like a butterfly, sting like an Intercontinental Ballistic Nuclear Missle.
Chilling5pr33
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Germany518 Posts
July 23 2011 13:56 GMT
#784
Im sorry for all the familys of the victims and all those who seen the horror live.
This is a bad day for all humanity.

Im really happy you cought this lonely soul alive and are maybe able to find the roots of this behaviour.

Maybe ths is the first time we are able to figure out what really pulled the trigger in his head.
We shouldnt just kill him ^^, thats really a bad advice, still we should put all our effort in figue out what got him to this point so this wont repeat once again.
Im very interested in what this was all about and how it come that far in a real healthy society like norway. Its a really nice country with very open minds and much better than most of the revenge attemps found in the countrys i know.

Still i believe he felt like over tolerance of the people make him angy...
Multi culture acceptance make him angry...

(found this in an article searching for it will add link here)

I see a picture of a lonely wolf here, who dont see himself living in a peacefull envirement, in wich everyone accept his neighbour no matter what his thouhts may be...
This makes me very sad and i hope this will lead us to a point where we can somehow figure out how to prevent this from happening.

Again all my respect to all lost they live lets hope this will lead to some more knowlege about those people and those sould didnt died for niothing.

(I was myself a lonely wolf once, who may come to somekind of point where all my anger would have explode in a crazy attemp to get attention, but i found love and a nice group of people who "cured" me [no religion or sect involved] so im somehow "understand" him, but now it makes me very sad)
F-
Dr_Jones
Profile Joined March 2011
Norway252 Posts
July 23 2011 13:57 GMT
#785
On July 23 2011 22:48 RoosterSamurai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 22:42 Sqq wrote:
People also need to know that he can't be released into society. Ever. He would be killed as soon as he went outside the prison walls.

I don't really understand how a society that "Doesn't want or need a death penalty" would remember this guy for 21 years and then kill him once he's released from prison. I'm reading a lot of mixed signals from the Norwegians in this thread...

Also, it's really sad that some maniac would do this do a bunch of kids. How can somebody do that?


It is interesting that you are incapable of seperating the "system" from the angry outbursts of some posters in this forum. By the same logic, I would be correct to assume every redneck a-hole uttering ignorant and angry outbursts would reflect political opinion in the US. I think we agree we are both better served to not do so.
wubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwub I love me some dubstep wubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwub
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
July 23 2011 13:57 GMT
#786
Sympathizer with the murderer has been raided. Idiot called in. He got uprehended with 2 weapons and a body armor. wtf is wrong with people.
Dead girls don't say no.
RoosterSamurai
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan2108 Posts
July 23 2011 13:57 GMT
#787
On July 23 2011 22:52 Sqq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 22:48 RoosterSamurai wrote:
On July 23 2011 22:42 Sqq wrote:
People also need to know that he can't be released into society. Ever. He would be killed as soon as he went outside the prison walls.

I don't really understand how a society that "Doesn't want or need a death penalty" would remember this guy for 21 years and then kill him once he's released from prison. I'm reading a lot of mixed signals from the Norwegians in this thread...

Also, it's really sad that some maniac would do this do a bunch of kids. How can somebody do that?


We as a society believe that prison is a rehabilitation center, not a parking space for criminals to rot.
The problem is we have criminals in our society like others, and it would be very popular among them to get the kill on him for status inside their areas. Unlike the US, we have a totally different view on prison and guns. Its just the way we are. We look at you and we're as shocked by the way you conduct prison terms, as you are at us now.

To be honest, I'm shocked at how the US conducts it's prison sentencing, and I'm confused at how Norway does it's prison sentencing. I don't think I like either method.
Let's say someone commits armed robbery, and are sentences to 5 years in prison (Not sure the logic of that, just an example), can they get parole on that? If there is no parole in the "rehabilitation method" then it's probably better than the way we do things in the states. But if you can get parole, then I would just think it's too relaxed.
Ilvy
Profile Joined September 2002
Germany2445 Posts
July 23 2011 13:57 GMT
#788
On July 23 2011 22:42 gravethrasher wrote:
I wrote a post on this subject on exactly this sort of episode last week in a thread about black metal and Varg Vikernes, and and there is a strong connection there. Its very easy to label this guy a monster, or insane, and there are people out there who is like that, but there truth might be awhole lot more frightning, that this guy is just human. My guess he does not have kids, and has a sterile christian lifestyle without drugs and parties, sex, disconnected from people, fiercly independant growing his own food and being self reliant, which leaves him totally commited to what he does mainly computer games and politics.His unaffected by materialism, jobs, and daily concerns of most people. He got to a point where he found out what needed to be done according to his own belief system, and did it, with with no regards to his own safety and no emotional breaks stopping him. Norway's one of the most difficult contries to integrate in, where people are very distant and dont really wanna mingle with strangers much unless they are drunk as norways got the worst drinking culture in the world. U will get no sympathy for ur problems here, as its got such a strong economy, and low crime and violence, theres nothing obvious to complain about and problems very subtle. Its a castrated society which resembles the 1984 existance alot more then other places and a soulless existance (and western conservative spirituality is a poor source of spirituality). People dont walk up to other people to talk to them here, or your seen as a nutjob. Shy people in norway gets isolated away, I dont expect him to have been violently abused, even though that might have happened, there is a bigger probability that his just been chipped and chiseled for a long time, left on his own to the point of not caring about or rather being totally neutral towards people sort of like a machine, forced into a form of political cannibalism.

Increasing punishment and arming police only makes things worse. If this guy knew he was facing exectution or torture, the situation could of been alot worse. And suspecting and stigmatising people also makes things worse and theres no point attack the things thats great with Norway. The problem lies in society in itself in all of us, i really dont see a way out personally. Im not removing responsibility in his actions btw, just explaining what may have shaped the framework for his mindset



You are native norwegian or just living there? Because you are one of the most realistic ppl there i´ve seen now.
Beside of the "arming police makes thinks worse". Problem is that everyone on norway is able to own weapons, any kind of weapons but the police is not trustfull enough for beeing armed?
Isn´t that kinda shizo? Even if the island would have been full of police they wouldn´t have been able to protect the kids from what happend, so they are kinda useless and just are used to write your fines?
Angryhorse
Profile Joined January 2010
Sweden387 Posts
July 23 2011 13:58 GMT
#789
Man this sucks so hard, got me thinking of all the camps I've been to,what if he went there instead?. shit

RIP
Don't cry blood, the world doesn't revolve around you
gravethrasher
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway89 Posts
July 23 2011 13:58 GMT
#790
The ironic thing is that he represents a political view and political party that supports harsher laws, to integrate a foreign friendly economic policy and right wing agenda. And this is exactly what the foreign contries will force upon norway now as most of u are doing in this thread. And this is EXACTLY what the vicitms stood against, and in the end he is winning
Varela
Profile Joined April 2011
Portugal11 Posts
July 23 2011 13:59 GMT
#791
Can someone clarify for me in gun laws in Norway? Do you need a permit of some sort? Dont want to start more off topic discussion, just trying to figure out how the hell did he get hold to the guns.
Nqsty
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom118 Posts
July 23 2011 13:59 GMT
#792
On July 23 2011 22:52 Sqq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 22:48 RoosterSamurai wrote:
On July 23 2011 22:42 Sqq wrote:
People also need to know that he can't be released into society. Ever. He would be killed as soon as he went outside the prison walls.

I don't really understand how a society that "Doesn't want or need a death penalty" would remember this guy for 21 years and then kill him once he's released from prison. I'm reading a lot of mixed signals from the Norwegians in this thread...

Also, it's really sad that some maniac would do this do a bunch of kids. How can somebody do that?


We as a society believe that prison is a rehabilitation center, not a parking space for criminals to rot.
The problem is we have criminals in our society like others, and it would be very popular among them to get the kill on him for status inside their areas. Unlike the US, we have a totally different view on prison and guns. Its just the way we are. We look at you and we're as shocked by the way you conduct prison terms, as you are at us now.


Just so I actually understand this right..

You believe that if this guy, 21 years from now, says he's ready to be rehabilitated, as in, "no, I promise I wont go and mass murder 80 teenagers you can trust me", then you as a citizen would be happy to have him serve you food as a waiter in a restaurant, or check our your groceries as a cashier, or change your toilets as a plumber ? And of course you wouldn't mind him getting involved into politics ? because you know, everyone can change ?

I really respect the way Norway has handled this situation, and the way you deal with your justice system is of course your own business, but just don't get it..
Roeder
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark735 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-23 14:04:53
July 23 2011 14:01 GMT
#793
On July 23 2011 22:58 gravethrasher wrote:
The ironic thing is that he represents a political view and political party that supports harsher laws, to integrate a foreign friendly economic policy and right wing agenda. And this is exactly what the foreign contries will force upon norway now as most of u are doing in this thread. And this is EXACTLY what the vicitms stood against, and in the end he is winning

Correct, but it's simply hatred towards him. I'm against death penalty (and lets not get into the subject, but I'm briefly mentioning it), but I want this guy to suffer a horrible life in a cell until he dies of age.

On July 23 2011 22:59 Varela wrote:
Can someone clarify for me in gun laws in Norway? Do you need a permit of some sort? Dont want to start more off topic discussion, just trying to figure out how the hell did he get hold to the guns.

I'm almost certain, that it's the same as in Denmark - you're not allowed any form of full-automatic weapons nor handguns, however you can own a hunting rifle, when having a permit. And obviously only for hunting purpose.

But that doesn't make it impossible to acquire a pistol nor any other weapon.
Lots of criminals 'own' handguns and firearms around here.
Starcraft is a mix between chess, poker and a Michael Bay movie.
chronomancer
Profile Joined May 2011
United States29 Posts
July 23 2011 14:01 GMT
#794
i would love to believe this one dude that is conservative, christian, likes hunting e-sport, reading and writing. who also loves shitty movies, tv shows, and video games would perpetrate this single handily without help. smells like a PATSY to me...who's america going to invade next? or what freedoms are going to be taken away from humanity now?

america is couple weeks away from possibly getting a visit from the Repoman(China) and the only thing on the news is shit about casey anthony, the feud between obama vs. boehner, baseball, football. now for the next few weeks it will be about Oslo. the media is going to feed/bottomsuck off this in every wrong way possible, reporting only the bullshit that will get them the viewers to make those extra bucks. IMHO this only disrespects the victims families.

since i'm not a religious person i will not pray for these families of the victims but my sympathies and thoughts do go out to you. sorry you had to be the ones to take a hit for a media story/thought deterrent.

i'm curious to see where this goes. i got my popcorn here and i'm ready for the show.
AntiGrav1ty
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2310 Posts
July 23 2011 14:01 GMT
#795
Man those first-person reports are heart-wrenching...
www.twitch.tv/antigrav1ty
sikatrix
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada172 Posts
July 23 2011 14:02 GMT
#796
On July 23 2011 22:59 Varela wrote:
Can someone clarify for me in gun laws in Norway? Do you need a permit of some sort? Dont want to start more off topic discussion, just trying to figure out how the hell did he get hold to the guns.


not sure of norways laws, but i think it's been posted that he has a firearms license
Influ
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany780 Posts
July 23 2011 14:02 GMT
#797
Watched a report today about this on ntv which one of the big 2 german news channel in germany. They talked about his facebook and that he played the killer video game world of warcraft. german media at it's best...
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
July 23 2011 14:02 GMT
#798
I just updated my post right below the OP: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10440691

If some mod could move the anchor to my post a little bit higher in the OP it'd be probably a good idea. I helped the OP with his post and I think he's sleeping now, I just woke up and condensed the last 30 pages in my post over there.

I'll keep moving updates over there if anything new comes in.

Can't even read some of those things myself or I'd be unable to crosspost them. :/
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
Dr_Jones
Profile Joined March 2011
Norway252 Posts
July 23 2011 14:02 GMT
#799
Gathering of eye witness accounts from the massacre at Utøya.

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.7724120

I'm sure Google translate will do the trick, reading them once was enough for me..
wubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwub I love me some dubstep wubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwub
CCow
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany335 Posts
July 23 2011 14:03 GMT
#800
On July 23 2011 22:59 Varela wrote:
Can someone clarify for me in gun laws in Norway? Do you need a permit of some sort? Dont want to start more off topic discussion, just trying to figure out how the hell did he get hold to the guns.

As far as I read in the media he was in some shooting sport club in Oslo and hence was able to buy weapons. Don't know specifics at all, though.
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