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[Old] The massacre in Norway - Page 38

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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect!
Maenander
Profile Joined November 2002
Germany4926 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-23 13:33:35
July 23 2011 13:33 GMT
#741
On July 23 2011 22:24 Sfydjklm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 22:12 Maple Bass wrote:
On July 23 2011 22:03 Nqsty wrote:
I don't understand how people can still talk about trials, lawyers, 21 years of jailtime, or even life sentence, this guy should be hanged, there should be no fucking question about it.
put a bullet through he head and he'd be lucky, if it were an eye for an eye, he'd have 350 through his body.


To clarify - I totally agree that this guy should get a life sentence - by life I mean literally life. However, I am also pointing out that if we are already presuming that he will get forvaring, then forvaring is basically a useless concept that should be recognised for what it really is - a life sentence.

If forvaring means a reformed criminal who is no longer a threat to society, then it is possible that a murderer who killed one person will be eligible for release under forvaring just as a mass murderer who killed 10 people will be eligible for release under forvaring just as a mass murderer who killed 80 people will be eligible for release under forvaring.

If forvaring just means someone who did something horrific cannot be eligible for release after 21 years of prison then Norwegian politicians should clarify their law and say in effect there is no 21 year limit and they may as well call forvaring a life sentence.

So the point I am making is this - this guy deserves a life sentence. However, I daresay almost everyone who is presuming this guy will get forvaring has no understanding of the concept at all and are basically saying he will get it, even though we have no idea what kind of person he will be in 21 years' time. If he is reformed, then he will not get forvaring. My personal view is forvaring should be abolished and that Norway should just be straight-up and replace it with a life sentence law instead for serious crimes.

nonsense. This is not some kind of gang banger hell bent on violence. It's a normal, functional person who just snapped. He looked and acted fine before the murders, he might as well act normal after them as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Fouganthine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issei_Sagawa
Show nested quote +
Issei Sagawa (佐川 一政 Sagawa Issei?, born June 11, 1949) is a Japanese man who in 1981 murdered and cannibalized a Dutch woman named Renée Hartevelt. After his release, he became a minor celebrity in Japan and made a living through the public's interest in his crime.

Fuck forvaring.

None of the two cases have anything to do with forvaring.
sarge89
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway147 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-23 13:34:44
July 23 2011 13:33 GMT
#742
Can people that seem to know nothing about the norwegian society stop trying to tell us how we should act right now? Stop trying to force pro-gun and pro death-penalty upon us, we strive to be a better society, above these things!

*edit
super karate monkey death car
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
July 23 2011 13:35 GMT
#743
--- Nuked ---
HerroPreaseTN
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Norway71 Posts
July 23 2011 13:36 GMT
#744
On July 23 2011 22:32 LazerApe wrote:
tell me why we dont have a death penalty?


It's inhumane, at the same low level as the criminals being put to death and has no shown effect on criminality whatsoever. The only thing is that the given person is removed from the world and the state saves money on the criminal being dead, rather than imprisoned as well as the lack of risk of the person doing the same over again. It also makes some people feel as though justice has been done, however it doesn't bring back the dead or undo whatever has been done.

Human values > cold calculations, or so it seems. Frankly, I'd rather pay money for being "better than that", rather than saving money and going down to their level.
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
July 23 2011 13:36 GMT
#745
On July 23 2011 22:32 BasedSwag wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 22:24 Sfydjklm wrote:
On July 23 2011 22:12 Maple Bass wrote:
On July 23 2011 22:03 Nqsty wrote:
I don't understand how people can still talk about trials, lawyers, 21 years of jailtime, or even life sentence, this guy should be hanged, there should be no fucking question about it.
put a bullet through he head and he'd be lucky, if it were an eye for an eye, he'd have 350 through his body.


To clarify - I totally agree that this guy should get a life sentence - by life I mean literally life. However, I am also pointing out that if we are already presuming that he will get forvaring, then forvaring is basically a useless concept that should be recognised for what it really is - a life sentence.

If forvaring means a reformed criminal who is no longer a threat to society, then it is possible that a murderer who killed one person will be eligible for release under forvaring just as a mass murderer who killed 10 people will be eligible for release under forvaring just as a mass murderer who killed 80 people will be eligible for release under forvaring.

If forvaring just means someone who did something horrific cannot be eligible for release after 21 years of prison then Norwegian politicians should clarify their law and say in effect there is no 21 year limit and they may as well call forvaring a life sentence.

So the point I am making is this - this guy deserves a life sentence. However, I daresay almost everyone who is presuming this guy will get forvaring has no understanding of the concept at all and are basically saying he will get it, even though we have no idea what kind of person he will be in 21 years' time. If he is reformed, then he will not get forvaring. My personal view is forvaring should be abolished and that Norway should just be straight-up and replace it with a life sentence law instead for serious crimes.

nonsense. This is not some kind of gang banger hell bent on violence. It's a normal, functional person who just snapped. He looked and acted fine before the murders, he might as well act normal after them as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Fouganthine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issei_Sagawa
Issei Sagawa (佐川 一政 Sagawa Issei?, born June 11, 1949) is a Japanese man who in 1981 murdered and cannibalized a Dutch woman named Renée Hartevelt. After his release, he became a minor celebrity in Japan and made a living through the public's interest in his crime.

Fuck forvaring.


How does what you linked have any relevance to 'forvaring'?

Show nested quote +
The subsequent publicity and macabre celebrity of Sagawa likely contributed to the French authorities' decision to have him extradited to Japan. Upon arrival in Japan, he was immediately taken to Matsuzawa hospital, where examining psychologists all found him to be sane but "evil". However, Japanese authorities found it to be legally impossible to hold him, purportedly because they lacked certain important papers from the French court. As a result, Sagawa checked himself out of the mental institution on August 12, 1986, and has been a free man ever since.


people like that shouldnt be given any legal loopholes to go free.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
July 23 2011 13:36 GMT
#746
On July 23 2011 22:33 Maenander wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 22:24 Sfydjklm wrote:
On July 23 2011 22:12 Maple Bass wrote:
On July 23 2011 22:03 Nqsty wrote:
I don't understand how people can still talk about trials, lawyers, 21 years of jailtime, or even life sentence, this guy should be hanged, there should be no fucking question about it.
put a bullet through he head and he'd be lucky, if it were an eye for an eye, he'd have 350 through his body.


To clarify - I totally agree that this guy should get a life sentence - by life I mean literally life. However, I am also pointing out that if we are already presuming that he will get forvaring, then forvaring is basically a useless concept that should be recognised for what it really is - a life sentence.

If forvaring means a reformed criminal who is no longer a threat to society, then it is possible that a murderer who killed one person will be eligible for release under forvaring just as a mass murderer who killed 10 people will be eligible for release under forvaring just as a mass murderer who killed 80 people will be eligible for release under forvaring.

If forvaring just means someone who did something horrific cannot be eligible for release after 21 years of prison then Norwegian politicians should clarify their law and say in effect there is no 21 year limit and they may as well call forvaring a life sentence.

So the point I am making is this - this guy deserves a life sentence. However, I daresay almost everyone who is presuming this guy will get forvaring has no understanding of the concept at all and are basically saying he will get it, even though we have no idea what kind of person he will be in 21 years' time. If he is reformed, then he will not get forvaring. My personal view is forvaring should be abolished and that Norway should just be straight-up and replace it with a life sentence law instead for serious crimes.

nonsense. This is not some kind of gang banger hell bent on violence. It's a normal, functional person who just snapped. He looked and acted fine before the murders, he might as well act normal after them as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Fouganthine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issei_Sagawa
Issei Sagawa (佐川 一政 Sagawa Issei?, born June 11, 1949) is a Japanese man who in 1981 murdered and cannibalized a Dutch woman named Renée Hartevelt. After his release, he became a minor celebrity in Japan and made a living through the public's interest in his crime.

Fuck forvaring.

None of the two cases have anything to do with forvaring.

Muderers going free because of the imperfections of the law? oh i think it does.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Wasteweiser
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada522 Posts
July 23 2011 13:37 GMT
#747
I'm curious what drives such an impulse, seems very normal from his wow posts. Definitly a shame how much youth didn't get to experience life to the fullest.
Obitus.243
Kilby
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland1069 Posts
July 23 2011 13:37 GMT
#748
On July 23 2011 22:32 LazerApe wrote:
tell me why we dont have a death penalty?


Probably because your legal system is not based on revenge?
TheSilverfox
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden1928 Posts
July 23 2011 13:37 GMT
#749
Guys, regarding the legal system in Norway, death sentence, life time in jail etc discussion - could we please take that discussion in a separate thread please?

Personally I think it's better to have this thread about the massacre and information regarding it.
Also known as Joinsimon on Twitter/Reddit
CCow
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany335 Posts
July 23 2011 13:37 GMT
#750
On July 23 2011 22:36 Sfydjklm wrote:
people like that shouldnt be given any legal loopholes to go free.

Well, I'd bet there won't be any in this case. And I don't see how japanese "legal holes" have anything to do with this thread.
Mulletarian
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway101 Posts
July 23 2011 13:38 GMT
#751
On July 23 2011 18:38 PeaNuT_T wrote:
They have death penalty for treason against your country in Norway, not sure if this would count as treason though.

discontinued as of 1979, he will most likely face 21 years of prison sentence followed by life custody.
Krehlmar
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1149 Posts
July 23 2011 13:38 GMT
#752

EDIT: this is an amazing post from deep within this thread:
On July 23 2011 20:41 Aylear wrote:
If I may, I want to briefly give some opinions on how we as a nation have handled this thus far. Some of you may have read my post in the other thread (my reply here), and this is a bit of clarification and some more of the same.

It may surprise some of you - especially if you live in the United States, where sensationalism and fear drives the news - to know that the government, the police department, and the media have all been very honest and straightforward in covering this tragedy, and that the people of Norway remain calm and composed (if a lot more sombre than usual) despite the enormity of the tragedy.

For instance, after the explosion and the early reports of the shooting on Utøya, the news simply recycled what they had previously stated: That a bomb had exploded in or near a government office building, that there was a related shooting in a political youth camp on Utøya, and that people had been killed in both of these cases. The ticker line at the bottom of the screen wasn't some quote from a news anchor or the prime minister -- it was the phone number for a hotline offered to the families of the victims.

From the first, there was no public outcry of, how did this happen, how did you let this happen, who is responsible for this travesty. There was no speculation or debate, no expert-witness criticism of foreign or domestic policy, no guesswork. In fact, when an Islamic extremist group claimed responsibility for the attack, few newspapers even deigned it worthy of mention -- the claim was either ignored completely, or there was a small notice buried under other headlines dealing with the actual facts.

At the end of the day, it seems that this was the correct approach: The entire tragedy now appears to be the work of one individual, who in fact had anti-Islamic views. Planned, yes, and executed with chilling efficiency, but to muddy the waters with sensationalist guesswork like some news channels in the UK, the US, and elsewhere did before they even had any of the facts in hand is the kind of thing that can partially obfuscate the actual events in retrospect, especially for onlookers abroad that by nature get a more peripheral glance. In that regard, I am very impressed with how the aftermath has been handled locally.

Later yesterday evening, the prime minister and the minister of justice held a press conference. It was excellently handled. The prime minister, his expression stoic, opened by saying that this abhorrent event will not bring Norway down; that we will be able to remain proud of our strong democracy, and that the open discourse and debate on every topic - no matter how controversial that topic may be - which has been a staple of our freedom of speech, will remain intact -- that we will not be cowed into silence, and that our politics should become even more open in the aftermath, as that is the correct response when faced with this kind of terror.

He also stated that the first priority over the coming days is to save lives, and to provide medical aid to the victims. Later on, there will be further statements as regards to the perpetrator, but for the moment the focus is completely on providing immediate aid.

The media questions at the press conference were of a similar nature: Who is this man, has he given a motive for his actions, what will you do in the coming days, can you clarify this one small thing. Very to the point. And, again, worth of note and admiration: When asked his opinion on the alleged claim of responsibility by the Islamic extremist group, the prime minister said simply, "These groups often claim responsibility for actions they had nothing to do with in an attempt to seem more capable than they really are." It was a great response.

All in all, I admire how the aftermath of this terrible incident was dealt with, and how open and honest the police, the government, and (most of all) the media have been in reporting this obscenity to us and the rest of the world.

---

To switch topics a bit, I've noticed that some people appear to be baffled at our justice system. I will address this briefly by taking on this composite quote:

"He deserves to fry. Norway's justice system is retarded for giving him decent living conditions for the rest of his life."

Really? Killing this human being would bring back the other human beings? Would it lessen the blow of our loss? Most Norwegians don't see it that way; we don't agree with this biblical desire for vengeance. Granted, in this particular case I'm sure some Norwegians will feel differently, but we aren't going to completely alter our justice system for just one man. Even this depraved individual will not get that dubious honour.

Our justice system is one of rehabilitation and reintroduction to society. Those individuals who are simply too damaged to ever be released (of which there are very few) are simply imprisoned for life. Bad people, yes, but still human beings. We won't publicly kill a fellow human being just because we feel like it, out of some desire for revenge. How is that any better than killing someone over an ideological viewpoint? Both are abhorrent. Both are murder.

As for us having a "retarded" justice system? While you were reading about the appallingly decent living conditions provided to our prison population and the leniency granted to our criminals, you should have also looked up some numbers, namely the per capita crime rate and the number of repeat offenders. In both cases, that number is extremely low. The justice system is working a hell of a lot better than that of most countries.

Lastly, the comment that the political youth camp equals indoctrination and likening it to Hitler-Jugend is so ignorant and insulting that I don't even want to tarnish the English language by crafting a response to it, but I'll call it out anyway in order to prevent its propagation as anything but drivel: The young men and women who suffered this living nightmare yesterday were nothing more than enthusiastic youths who were personally and voluntarily interested and engaged in politics, young men and women who take an interest in and care about how the government runs their home.

So, with all that said, how is our country failing again? Please, let us know -- we desperately need to improve our standing in the Human Development Index. Seriously, can we at least agree that this misguided socialist country of ours appears to be doing something right?

---

I'll end on a much more optimistic note. I mentioned this in my previous post as well, but it's worth repeating: Shortly after the call went out for blood donors, hospitals had to start publicly declining offers from further donors because they had already acquired more than enough of even the rarer blood types. That's how quickly Oslo responded. I think I'm more happy about that than anything else.
[/QUOTE]


Haha Norweigen brothers drops the bomb on ignorant assholes, you go gal !
Also that is abit skewed since you guys have huge oil reserves, making it so that no matter what you can afford almost anything. But I still think that if you have the possibility, then ofcourse do it... evidently more people live better from it.




All I can say regarding this massacre is A: He should be classified as a terrorist;
"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."
And I am thankful it's not a muslim because then we'd never hear the end of it from borderline facists, now atleast they get the heat and we might get an actual debate rather than a onesided bullshitfest.
My Comment Doesnt Matter Because No One Reads It
Ichobicho
Profile Joined July 2010
Norway79 Posts
July 23 2011 13:39 GMT
#753
On July 23 2011 22:33 sarge89 wrote:
Can people that seem to know nothing about the norwegian society stop trying to tell us how we should act right now? Stop trying to force pro-gun and pro death-penalty upon us, we strive to be a better society, above these things!



well said
Maple Bass
Profile Joined July 2011
22 Posts
July 23 2011 13:39 GMT
#754
On July 23 2011 22:33 sarge89 wrote:
Can people that seem to know nothing about the norwegian society stop trying to tell us how we should act right now? Stop trying to force pro-gun and pro death-penalty upon us, we strive to be a better society, above these things!


Please don't be too nationalistic. Yes, every country has something to be proud of. But if this was a US case or something that happened in China, opinions from people posting from other countries is entirely valid. Also as I mentioned earlier - there will very likely be Norwegians who disagree with your statement, and feel that after this event sentencing laws should be harsher, so you don't necessarily speak on behalf of all Norwegians.

Forvaring means someone who hasn't reformed after 21 years is not released after 21 years.

Forvaring means someone who has reformed after 21 years is released after 21 years.

A life sentence means someone who has not reformed after 21 years is not released after 21 years.

A life sentence means someone who has reformed after 21 years is not released after 21 years.

Hence why I believe forvaring should be abolished and replaced with a life sentence in Norway.

I believe Norway needs to reconsider their maximum sentence of 21 years. I also believe my own country, New Zealand, needs to reconsider this too. Our maximum sentence is 22 years. If something like this happened in New Zealand, I would definitely be petitioning the government to introduce a life sentence.
Ichobicho
Profile Joined July 2010
Norway79 Posts
July 23 2011 13:41 GMT
#755
On July 23 2011 22:39 Maple Bass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 22:33 sarge89 wrote:
Can people that seem to know nothing about the norwegian society stop trying to tell us how we should act right now? Stop trying to force pro-gun and pro death-penalty upon us, we strive to be a better society, above these things!


Please don't be too nationalistic. Yes, every country has something to be proud of. But if this was a US case or something that happened in China, opinions from people posting from other countries is entirely valid. Also as I mentioned earlier - there will very likely be Norwegians who disagree with your statement, and feel that after this event sentencing laws should be harsher, so you don't necessarily speak on behalf of all Norwegians.

Forvaring means someone who hasn't reformed after 21 years is not released after 21 years.

Forvaring means someone who has reformed after 21 years is released after 21 years.

A life sentence means someone who has not reformed after 21 years is not released after 21 years.

A life sentence means someone who has reformed after 21 years is not released after 21 years.

Hence why I believe forvaring should be abolished and replaced with a life sentence in Norway.

I believe Norway needs to reconsider their maximum sentence of 21 years. I also believe my own country, New Zealand, needs to reconsider this too. Our maximum sentence is 22 years. If something like this happened in New Zealand, I would definitely be petitioning the government to introduce a life sentence.


What you think about norwegian sentencing laws, has nothing to do with what this topic is about
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
July 23 2011 13:41 GMT
#756
On July 23 2011 22:37 CCow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 22:36 Sfydjklm wrote:
people like that shouldnt be given any legal loopholes to go free.

Well, I'd bet there won't be any in this case. And I don't see how japanese "legal holes" have anything to do with this thread.

wow okay i don't know how to put it any simpler, let me try an analogy, what youre saying is an equivalent of "i don't think nuclear plants that are located in a tsunami prone areas located outside of japan should be reinforced for tsunamis just because it happened in japan"
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
July 23 2011 13:42 GMT
#757
People also need to know that he can't be released into society. Ever. He would be killed as soon as he went outside the prison walls.
Dead girls don't say no.
CCow
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany335 Posts
July 23 2011 13:42 GMT
#758
On July 23 2011 22:39 Maple Bass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 22:33 sarge89 wrote:
Can people that seem to know nothing about the norwegian society stop trying to tell us how we should act right now? Stop trying to force pro-gun and pro death-penalty upon us, we strive to be a better society, above these things!


Please don't be too nationalistic. Yes, every country has something to be proud of. But if this was a US case or something that happened in China, opinions from people posting from other countries is entirely valid. Also as I mentioned earlier - there will very likely be Norwegians who disagree with your statement, and feel that after this event sentencing laws should be harsher, so you don't necessarily speak on behalf of all Norwegians.

Forvaring means someone who hasn't reformed after 21 years is not released after 21 years.

Forvaring means someone who has reformed after 21 years is released after 21 years.

A life sentence means someone who has not reformed after 21 years is not released after 21 years.

A life sentence means someone who has reformed after 21 years is not released after 21 years.

Hence why I believe forvaring should be abolished and replaced with a life sentence in Norway.

I believe Norway needs to reconsider their maximum sentence of 21 years. I also believe my own country, New Zealand, needs to reconsider this too. Our maximum sentence is 22 years. If something like this happened in New Zealand, I would definitely be petitioning the government to introduce a life sentence.


You have been repeating your same old point for like 8 posts now, getting us nowhere.
The norwegian system is as it is, as said before if you want to discuss that, make another thread for that.
gravethrasher
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway89 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-23 13:45:30
July 23 2011 13:42 GMT
#759
I wrote a post on this subject on exactly this sort of episode last week in a thread about black metal and Varg Vikernes, and and there is a strong connection there. Its very easy to label this guy a monster, or insane, and there are people out there who is like that, but there truth might be awhole lot more frightning, that this guy is just human. My guess he does not have kids, and has a sterile christian lifestyle without drugs and parties, sex, disconnected from people, fiercly independant growing his own food and being self reliant, which leaves him totally commited to what he does mainly computer games and politics.His unaffected by materialism, jobs, and daily concerns of most people. He got to a point where he found out what needed to be done according to his own belief system, and did it, with with no regards to his own safety and no emotional breaks stopping him. Norway's one of the most difficult contries to integrate in, where people are very distant and dont really wanna mingle with strangers much unless they are drunk as norways got the worst drinking culture in the world. U will get no sympathy for ur problems here, as its got such a strong economy, and low crime and violence, theres nothing obvious to complain about and problems very subtle. Its a castrated society which resembles the 1984 existance alot more then other places and a soulless existance (and western conservative spirituality is a poor source of spirituality). People dont walk up to other people to talk to them here, or your seen as a nutjob. Shy people in norway gets isolated away, I dont expect him to have been violently abused, even though that might have happened, there is a bigger probability that his just been chipped and chiseled for a long time, left on his own to the point of not caring about or rather being totally neutral towards people sort of like a machine, forced into a form of political cannibalism.

Increasing punishment and arming police only makes things worse. If this guy knew he was facing exectution or torture, the situation could of been alot worse. And suspecting and stigmatising people also makes things worse and theres no point attack the things thats great with Norway. The problem lies in society in itself in all of us, i really dont see a way out personally. Im not removing responsibility in his actions btw, just explaining what may have shaped the framework for his mindset
kochujang
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany1226 Posts
July 23 2011 13:43 GMT
#760
On July 23 2011 22:39 Maple Bass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 22:33 sarge89 wrote:
Can people that seem to know nothing about the norwegian society stop trying to tell us how we should act right now? Stop trying to force pro-gun and pro death-penalty upon us, we strive to be a better society, above these things!


Please don't be too nationalistic. Yes, every country has something to be proud of. But if this was a US case or something that happened in China, opinions from people posting from other countries is entirely valid. Also as I mentioned earlier - there will very likely be Norwegians who disagree with your statement, and feel that after this event sentencing laws should be harsher, so you don't necessarily speak on behalf of all Norwegians.

Forvaring means someone who hasn't reformed after 21 years is not released after 21 years.

Forvaring means someone who has reformed after 21 years is released after 21 years.

A life sentence means someone who has not reformed after 21 years is not released after 21 years.

A life sentence means someone who has reformed after 21 years is not released after 21 years.

Hence why I believe forvaring should be abolished and replaced with a life sentence in Norway.

I believe Norway needs to reconsider their maximum sentence of 21 years. I also believe my own country, New Zealand, needs to reconsider this too. Our maximum sentence is 22 years. If something like this happened in New Zealand, I would definitely be petitioning the government to introduce a life sentence.

No, we believe that the main purpose of a sentence rehabilitation, not punishment. A real life sentence implies that rehabilitation is impossible, so it is not applicable.
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