EPTOn July 26 2011 03:18 ckw wrote:
When is this guy making a statement?
When is this guy making a statement?
He got 4 weeks in isolation today, and another 4 weeks in normal custody. So I do not think it will happen any time soon.
[Old] The massacre in Norway - Page 119
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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect! | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
He got 4 weeks in isolation today, and another 4 weeks in normal custody. So I do not think it will happen any time soon. | ||
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AdamBanks
Canada996 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:18 ckw wrote: When is this guy making a statement? I don't really care what this man has to say. I think it would be more beneficial of your time to spend it observering Norways mourning. My heart goes out to all those effected. | ||
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Infernus
Norway222 Posts
On July 26 2011 02:30 mdF wrote: + Show Spoiler + "Filmed from a nearby island to Utøya" You honestly think there wasn't a single boat nearby that they could get their hands on? A terrorist (yes that is exactly what he is) managed to park a car full of explosives right outside of a goverment building in broad daylight and there where even threats called in the day before if im not misstaken. And all this while PST knew there was a possible threat picture because of Norways involvement in the middle east. Sure the police can not be blamed for what happened that day but saying they did a god job in either of the situations is wrong. http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/1.2509291/man-sag-att-de-hade-forsokt-skydda-varandra (Swedish text) Some quotes from the article: "Firefighters from Modum were among the first who arrived at Utöya on Friday." "When the first group of firefighters from Modum arrived to Utöya on Friday at 18:20 Anders Behring Breivik was still not arrested and firefighters talk about how they heard gunfire on the island." "- We were told constantly not to approach the island." So basicly they must had a way to get to the island but the norweigan swat did not? Didn't wikileaks expose a document about some members from the U.S embacy in Norway complaining about the incompetence of PST? All in all FallDownMariGold is right, I probably have way to high expecations on the norweigan police force and I probably should take Norway's history dealing with this sort of situations (none) into consideration. But this entire situation is so frustrating, venting out I guess. We are all angry, upset and sad. And it is true that PST have had a lot of critic earlier for doing a poor job. But let's be honest, he purchased completely legal merchandise. Nothing really sticks out. Even if firefighters were the first to arrive at Utøya, what the heck could they do against a maniac armed to the teeth? They would most likely end up dead. I don't understand how you can be so naive and close minded about this. This ain't a Hollywood movie where SWAT arrives at the scene 5 minutes after you call it in. But I get you, I really do. We all wish they could arrive much, much earlier. But saying they did a poor job, or that PST should have known he planned this and so on and on.. open your eyes. He did EVERYTHING he could not to get caught, and he managed to do so. This isn't the time to put blame, let us grief over a tragedy no one expected would happen. Thanks. | ||
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Earll
Norway847 Posts
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Ksi
357 Posts
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:15 Longshank wrote: Oh drop the condecending tone. The Swedish police force didn't exactly shine during the helicopter robbery at Västberga, we wouldn't have managed the situation any better. I don't get this attitude to always need someone to blame. I admire the way Norway is handling all this as a nation not pointing fingers blaming one another. This was an extreme situation, one you can never truly prepare for. It doesn't have to be about blame, it's about preventing or at least marginally improving the response system in the event of another attack. If no one and nothing was in the wrong given this event, then how is a nation supposed to improve response times and plans of action? To simply say "Well, he was smart, this was incredibly unusual, nothing much we could do" seems downright offensive given the loss of human life. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
<3 Norway & the norwegian people. It's simply not possible to describe how humane and I dare to say evolved all the reactions are I keep seeing from your side. You're a great example for any other country where tragedies have happened in the past and where they were responded with by aggression and hate. <3³ | ||
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:34 Ksi wrote: Man it's pretty disturbing (though I guess not surprising) to see even in this thread the number of people that are so politically blinded that sympathize with this guy's views. They won't openly praise him, but you see their short terse comments dispersed throughout the thread. This x1000, all across the internet I see posts from passive aggressive racists backhandedly praising this man, as though his ideology contains within a defensible posture. Bullshit, if you support anything about this man or what he has to say, well, I hope for your sake you say huddled in your basement, ordering "V for Vendetta" masks, posting borderline genocidal beliefs on forums, and overall simply being a sad excuse for a human being. | ||
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Cyba
Romania221 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:35 farvacola wrote: It doesn't have to be about blame, it's about preventing or at least marginally improving the response system in the event of another attack. If no one and nothing was in the wrong given this event, then how is a nation supposed to improve response times and plans of action? To simply say "Well, he was smart, this was incredibly unusual, nothing much we could do" seems downright offensive given the loss of human life. As if they can make anything meaningfull happen over night, what do you expect ? Takes time to restructure things to be prepared for such shit in the future. And it's not the police force itself who handles that shit anyway it's the .gov. The police just uses the tools and resources they're given as best they can, clearly they didn't have enough. As for his statement, he only did what he did to get people to listen to him, why would you dignify his deed by doing exactly what he wants? Best punishment for that one is to not allow him to say anything ever, and if he does don't bother listening. | ||
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Gnax
Sweden490 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:40 farvacola wrote: This x1000, all across the internet I see posts from passive aggressive racists backhandedly praising this man, as though his ideology contains within a defensible posture. Bullshit, if you support anything about this man or what he has to say, well, I hope for your sake you say huddled in your basement, ordering "V for Vendetta" masks, posting borderline genocidal beliefs on forums, and overall simply being a sad excuse for a human being. Just because one man kills 70 people doesn't mean that everything he stands for is wrong. It would be equally stupid to dismiss his opinions as it would be to praise them, based solely on what he did. | ||
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:43 Cyba wrote: As if they can make anything meaningfull happen over night, what do you expect ? Takes time to restructure things to be prepared for such shit in the future. And it's not the police force itself who handles that shit anyway it's the .gov. The police just uses the tools and resources they're given as best they can, clearly they didn't have enough. As for his statement, he only did what he did to get people to listen to him, why would you dignify his deed by doing exactly what he wants? Best punishment for that one is to not allow him to say anything ever, and if he does don't bother listening. Of course nothing worthwhile happens overnight, proper systematic changes and improvement of response times takes time, time well spent in my mind. When it comes to improving public safety, its not about blaming a specific sector, its about doing everything humanly possible to save lives and promote safety. When it comes to the sanctity of human life, there is always room for improvement. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:35 farvacola wrote: It doesn't have to be about blame, it's about preventing or at least marginally improving the response system in the event of another attack. If no one and nothing was in the wrong given this event, then how is a nation supposed to improve response times and plans of action? To simply say "Well, he was smart, this was incredibly unusual, nothing much we could do" seems downright offensive given the loss of human life. I think everyone sees quite clearly that Norway(and the rest of us, I seriously doubt this would not have worked in any other Nordic country in the least) needs to go over things they can improve. Even if there truly isn't anything that could be improved, of course it will be looked at, the loss of life was just so high and painful. That is theirs to do though, the only thing the rest of us can really do is offer our support. Putting myself in their shoes I doubt I'd take it well while grieving to have an outsider criticizing the people that if nothing else, in the end stopped the murdering psycho. | ||
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nordlyset
Norway38 Posts
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TuElite
Canada2123 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:50 Gnax wrote: Just because one man kills 70 people doesn't mean that everything he stands for is wrong. It would be equally stupid to dismiss his opinions as it would be to praise them, based solely on what he did. Well said, tho I personally haven't found a single post in this thread that sympathize with the killer's views. And lol at how that would be political blindness, how about openness ? Considering all sides or opinions without automatically dismissing them is far from blindness, in fact it's the extreme opposite in my opinion. | ||
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HellRoxYa
Sweden1614 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:40 farvacola wrote: This x1000, all across the internet I see posts from passive aggressive racists backhandedly praising this man, as though his ideology contains within a defensible posture. Bullshit, if you support anything about this man or what he has to say, well, I hope for your sake you say huddled in your basement, ordering "V for Vendetta" masks, posting borderline genocidal beliefs on forums, and overall simply being a sad excuse for a human being. Who's done this, exactly? I'm quite sure I've missed it. @Both of you, though, you need to realize that some of his core views aren't very controversial. As I've written somewhere previously I think Swedish politics have failed in the immigration area in a few different ways and to sum it up I think we should adopt a more assimilation-style policy towards immigrants. That being said, agreeing with this view is not equal to agreeing with everything we know about him or what he's written. There's a lot of disconnected-from-reality reasoning coming from this guy and the attacks themselves were carried out because he felt that he couldn't make any progress through the usual democratic system. Haven't seen anyone agree with that point... have you? On July 26 2011 03:55 nordlyset wrote: Wow its realy making me angry that people in USA including Glenn Beck is comparing the AUF political youth camp with Hitlerjugend. This absolutely nonsens! Do people in USA belive what this guy is saying or is he known to be full off garbage?. Afaik the vast majority just dismiss him for the fear mongerer and lier he is. But there's still way too many who take him seriously. Scary stuff. | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:50 Gnax wrote: Just because one man kills 70 people doesn't mean that everything he stands for is wrong. It would be equally stupid to dismiss his opinions as it would be to praise them, based solely on what he did. Sometimes, playing devil's advocate will not get your point across. This is not the time and place for ideological debates. | ||
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Phenny
Australia1435 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:50 Gnax wrote: Just because one man kills 70 people doesn't mean that everything he stands for is wrong. It would be equally stupid to dismiss his opinions as it would be to praise them, based solely on what he did. Exactly. That said I'm not sure I understand where he's coming from. Does the correlation between the increasing and high standards of living in Norway and the increasing multiculturalism not suggest that multiculturalism is infact a good thing, or at worst neutral? | ||
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:50 Gnax wrote: Just because one man kills 70 people doesn't mean that everything he stands for is wrong. It would be equally stupid to dismiss his opinions as it would be to praise them, based solely on what he did. Except in this case I'm not dismissing his opinions based on his actions, I'm dismissing them based on basic values of human equality, compassion, and downright common moral sense. His entire manifesto reeks of outdated Hegelian notions of historic cultural value, as though a defense of storied European bloodlines acts as an excuse to commit heinous murder. He uses freemason terminology and a distorted sense of racial demographics to justify blatant racism and a dislike of heterogeneity. Like I said, anyone who agrees with even a shred of what this man believes is a worthless excuse for a morally upstanding human being. | ||
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Stiluz
Norway688 Posts
![[image loading]](http://g.api.no/obscura/pub/728x1000r/03896/1311612976000_sorgtorg-nett_3896381728x1000r.jpg) There are more pictures from the various gatherings over all of Norway here: http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/07/25/nyheter/fakkeltog/innenriks/terror/oslo/17450763/ Over 150.000 people met up in Oslo, which is a lot for a relatively small capitol: ![[image loading]](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174538/17453847/jpg/active/737x550.jpg) From Stavanger: ![[image loading]](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174530/17453005/jpg/active/733x550.jpg) For once I agree with our PM: We will respond to this terror with more openess and democracy! | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:35 farvacola wrote: It doesn't have to be about blame, it's about preventing or at least marginally improving the response system in the event of another attack. If no one and nothing was in the wrong given this event, then how is a nation supposed to improve response times and plans of action? To simply say "Well, he was smart, this was incredibly unusual, nothing much we could do" seems downright offensive given the loss of human life. You're absolutely right but you do that when things have calmed down, when you have a clear view of what happend and how to improve. Now is not the time, especially when you don't know half of what went down like the poster I responded to. In that case, blaming someone is just a defense mechanism, a cheap method of directing anger and frustration. | ||
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