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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect! | ||
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sarge89
Norway147 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:33 Infernus wrote: Anyone actually care for what Glenn Beck has to say? I don't take a single word that man say seriously. But so many people do, and that's kinda the problem with the polarizing politics in the US. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:17 BlackJack wrote: He didn't say that at all. This is what he said: Beck said the camp "sounds a little like the Hitler Youth. I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics?" I believe the OP of this thread called it a "socialist youth camp." Saying that sounds "a little like" an indoctrination camp at first glance is perfectly rational. Political youth groups have been around for many, many decades, in many countries, and long before hitlerjugend. Germany just always gets the flak because they were the only conquered nation in WW2 with any sort of military competence, and the Soviets weren't particularly fond of the Germans, and vice versa. Anything bad is obviously relegated to the Germans lol. Even in the US there are political youth groups, and I'm not sure if people (so I've been told) learning to hate American enemies and be nationalists is very mellow and non-radical. One of my friends went to one of those some years back, and he went from not caring about politics so much to wanting Vladimir Putin decapitated because apparently he's a terrible terrible dictator for restoring democratic processes and bringing Russia out of a decade-long depression.. lol. Now he's part of a university republican party political group and he's even more radical in that regard. Maybe the news and propaganda here does that sort of thing well enough, so that function in such camps isn't necessary if it does exist. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:37 Thorakh wrote: This is a terrorism crime, that's different from murdering your wife. He killed about 100 people if the people still missing are dead. No one is going to set him free after 21 years. If he killed his wife's lover in a rage, then yes, but this man killed more than 80 people in cold blood, preparing the deed for over 9 years and whatnot else. He'll never be free. And even if he goes free, that will be because he finally realised what he has done which will have shattered his soul. He'll be safe to release then. I would have no problems with that as his conscience will be enough punishment for the rest of his life. Doubt that's gonna happen though. As I said, at that moment(in 21 years), they're supposed to objectively judge if he'd be a danger to the society, regardless of the crimes he's done in the past. These aren't my ideas by the way, I think some finnish law expert said this. Now, if they just hold him there anyway without doing as the law says you're supposed to, it kind of defeats the purpose, and they should just implement life sentence. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:41 sarge89 wrote: But so many people do, and that's kinda the problem with the polarizing politics in the US. Not many people do, or ever truly did. He was an entertainer more than anything. He doesn't even have a show anymore since his ratings dropped like a rock. | ||
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:17 BlackJack wrote: He didn't say that at all. This is what he said: Beck said the camp "sounds a little like the Hitler Youth. I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics?" I believe the OP of this thread called it a "socialist youth camp." Saying that sounds "a little like" an indoctrination camp at first glance is perfectly rational. No? This is a youth camp for Arbeiterpartiet (if that's the name?), which would correspond to the Democrats in America. So imagine if the Democrats held a yearly camp for aspiring democratic politicians and someone called it "something like Hitler Youth". It's nonsense. It was just the youth division for this particular party having a summer camp, not indoctrinating children or anything like that. Every party in Scandinavia has a youth division where young people can discuss politics and such. And every youth division has a yearly meetup, just like this one. Just because they were left wing and not right wing, Glenn Beck and other nut jobs think this is some sort of Hitler Jugend or weird socialist indoctrination camp? It's laughable. | ||
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Ksi
357 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:45 DannyJ wrote: Not many people do, or ever truly did. He was an entertainer more than anything. He doesn't even have a show anymore since his ratings dropped like a rock. Dropped like a rock in comparison to the other Fox News shows. Fox News has honestly hit a demographic goldmine. Their audience (typically 40+ in age, conservative, always fearful) are the ones that stay glued to the television more than probably any other group. I assure you that around 20% of our country will agree with nearly anything he says. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:46 Deadlyfish wrote: No? This is a youth camp for Arbeiterpartiet (if that's the name?), which would correspond to the Democrats in America. So imagine if the Democrats held a yearly camp for aspiring democratic politicians and someone called it "something like Hitler Youth". It's nonsense. It was just the youth division for this particular party having a summer camp, not indoctrinating children or anything like that. Every party in Scandinavia has a youth division where young people can discuss politics and such. And every youth division has a yearly meetup, just like this one. Just because they were left wing and not right wing, Glenn Beck and other nut jobs think this is some sort of Hitler Jugend or weird socialist indoctrination camp? It's laughable. Yep, at least every major Finnish party has a youth division and they have trips and camps etc together and their own forums and homepages and such. Isn't it normal? | ||
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vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:50 Shikyo wrote: Yep, at least every major Finnish party has a youth division and they have trips and camps etc together and their own forums and homepages and such. Isn't it normal? Either good and fun activities for youths engaged in politics or brainwashing propaganda depending on who you ask it seems :/ | ||
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duckTemplar
United States200 Posts
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Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:54 vyyye wrote: Either good and fun activities for youths engaged in politics or brainwashing propaganda depending on who you ask it seems :/ Depending on whether they are from USA or not* | ||
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farvacola
United States18839 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:50 Shikyo wrote: Yep, at least every major Finnish party has a youth division and they have trips and camps etc together and their own forums and homepages and such. Isn't it normal? You may be surprised at how foreign the idea of youth and politics is here in the US. While there may be small, isolated summer camp type activities for politically active youth, the idea of mixing politics with an impressionable age group doesn't sit well here in the US, but that has a lot to do with a fundamental mistrust of politics in general. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:46 Deadlyfish wrote: No? This is a youth camp for Arbeiterpartiet (if that's the name?), which would correspond to the Democrats in America. So imagine if the Democrats held a yearly camp for aspiring democratic politicians and someone called it "something like Hitler Youth". It's nonsense. It was just the youth division for this particular party having a summer camp, not indoctrinating children or anything like that. Every party in Scandinavia has a youth division where young people can discuss politics and such. And every youth division has a yearly meetup, just like this one. Just because they were left wing and not right wing, Glenn Beck and other nut jobs think this is some sort of Hitler Jugend or weird socialist indoctrination camp? It's laughable. It's laughable to think that an 11 year old is old enough to form his own views on the world and politics. Any beliefs that he has are of his parents, which are probably the people paying to send him to a political camp. If that's not indoctrination, we must have different views on the definition of the world. and before you call me bias, I consider anyone that takes their kids to church or sunday school to be indoctrinating their children. Which includes well over half my country, I am sure. | ||
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Ksi
357 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:56 farvacola wrote: You may be surprised at how foreign the idea of youth and politics is here in the US. While there may be small, isolated summer camp type activities for politically active youth, the idea of mixing politics with an impressionable age group doesn't sit well here in the US, but that has a lot to do with a fundamental mistrust of politics in general. Thankfully our youth are generally so apathetic that you couldn't politicize them even if you wanted to! | ||
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Sumsi
Germany593 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:50 Shikyo wrote: Yep, at least every major Finnish party has a youth division and they have trips and camps etc together and their own forums and homepages and such. Isn't it normal? Depends on your view. For some people it's normal for others political indoctrination is just some form of child molestation. | ||
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Vlanitak
Norway3045 Posts
they had planned a march but it got canceled due to to many people showing up + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KXEIJ.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XdNVS.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bkvWv.jpg) and one from outside the Lutheran church in Oslo from yesterday:; + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eayiL.jpg) | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:55 Roflhaxx wrote: Depending on whether they are from USA or not* You think that these camps provide a fair and balanced view of the political atmosphere in the country, provide them with the other sides arguments or that the children are old enough/smart enough to make an educated decision of the facts without being biased by the influence of peer pressure/the people who run the camp who have a clear and defined goal (making future supporters of the party)? Seems pretty naive. No different than sending kids to a religious camp and 'forcing' them to learn to love the religion without the capacity of real choice. (only saying this b/c it is being talked about in this thread... if a mod feels this isn't worth discussing then feel free to delete this or something) Overall, Norway has handled this whole incident wonderfully. Shows some real character. | ||
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TokO
Norway577 Posts
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:57 BlackJack wrote: It's laughable to think that an 11 year old is old enough to form his own views on the world and politics. Any beliefs that he has are of his parents, which are probably the people paying to send him to a political camp. If that's not indoctrination, we must have different views on the definition of the world. It's laughable to think that a person will ever be able to develop a coherent political view without discussing it with others (preferrably in real life), starting at a fairly early age. Obviously the 11 year olds at that island weren't discussing politics (I'm willing to bet most of the program is just having fun), that's not how it works in Europe either, but there's nothing wrong with people over 14ish doing so, and it is in fact encouraged. Or would you rather that people stick with their parents political views their entire life? I'd also like to point out that the most indoctrinated person on the island wasn't one of the kids, but the douchebag showing up with a rifle who managed to radicalize entirely on his own with help from the internet. | ||
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:57 BlackJack wrote: It's laughable to think that an 11 year old is old enough to form his own views on the world and politics. Any beliefs that he has are of his parents, which are probably the people paying to send him to a political camp. If that's not indoctrination, we must have different views on the definition of the world. and before you call me bias, I consider anyone that takes their kids to church or sunday school to be indoctrinating their children. Which includes well over half my country, I am sure. I think you have a wrong view about these summer camps. I dont know how many 11 year olds there were at this camp, but the one i've heard of was there with his father. Maybe to help out at the camp or to hang out with friends or to just meet new people. This is not some camp where they tell children what to believe or try to get them to join the party. It's just for people to come and have a good time with AUF, where they can meet other members and discuss politics. I know in America political summer camps for young people sounds like more than it is. I've been to quite a few of these (for different parties), just to meet some people, and trust me, this is just a place for young people to meet up and have fun, not some lecture where evil parents try to indoctrinate their children. I feel like many Americans are on a different wavelength concerning this and other things related to this tragedy. The people of Noway have handled this very well though. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
Seriously, that guy's nothing short of dangerous. | ||
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