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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect! |
On July 25 2011 22:07 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 22:03 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 25 2011 21:51 zeru wrote:On July 25 2011 21:49 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 25 2011 20:11 Longshank wrote:On July 25 2011 19:43 BearDK wrote:On July 25 2011 19:33 zYwi3c wrote:
I just want to say, that they should execute this guy ;/
21 years in Jail is just LOL. He gets 21, then another 21 and so forth and so on, as far as I know. Some major effort should be(and will be) put on rehibilitating him. If that's successful then that would be the ultimate punishment. How exactly do u picture rehabilitation of a person who killed 90 people? What is he supposed to be behaving like to qualify as rehabilitated? I don't think you come back from killing 90 people. Even more often then not people from warzones such as vietnam and iraq never manage to fully rehabilitate. Besides psychopaths are known to appear normal if not outright charming. This is a guy who supposedly was just another nice enough kid who was playing wow with friends. Rehabilitation is not possible in his case because there is no way to gauge it. The biggest serial killer in scandinavia killed 138 people and was released after 21 years and considered rehabilitated. link? http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/serialkillers/nesset.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnfinn_Nesset
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On July 25 2011 22:02 Zetter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 22:01 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 25 2011 21:52 Zetter wrote:On July 25 2011 21:49 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 25 2011 20:11 Longshank wrote:On July 25 2011 19:43 BearDK wrote:On July 25 2011 19:33 zYwi3c wrote:
I just want to say, that they should execute this guy ;/
21 years in Jail is just LOL. He gets 21, then another 21 and so forth and so on, as far as I know. Some major effort should be(and will be) put on rehibilitating him. If that's successful then that would be the ultimate punishment. How exactly do u picture rehabilitation of a person who killed 90 people? What is he supposed to be behaving like to qualify as rehabilitated? I don't think you come back from killing 90 people. Even more often then not people from warzones such as vietnam and iraq never manage to fully rehabilitate. If his reasons for the attacks really were ideology or religion, rehabilitation is most likely going to be successful through religious or ideological "indoctrination", if you can call it this way. how hard is it to fake? It should be pretty hard to fake in front of Norway's best psychologists and neurologists.
highly doubt it. It's easy to fake something when you know what people would expect of you. Besides having mild beliefs is not a crime. You have somehow to gauge the level of violence proneness the person possesses.
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On July 25 2011 21:53 Myrtroll wrote:Show nested quote +How exactly do u picture rehabilitation of a person who killed 90 people? What is he supposed to be behaving like to qualify as rehabilitated? I don't think you come back from killing 90 people. Even more often then not people from warzones such as vietnam and iraq never manage to fully rehabilitate. If he starts regretting what he did, you could argue that he is on the road to being "rehabilitated". This should be the goal regardless. But there is a secondary thing if you are afraid of his release, and that is his own safety. I highly doubt he can ever be a free man, because there will be tons of people wanting his head once free, so they might keep him inside for life just for his own safety. Also in his case, with the insane planning he did, he could probably "fake" getting better, and thus still be a threat to society, so either way I'm pretty sure chances of him getting out is close to 0%. (no panel or what they use to determine it, in their right mind will ever take responsibility for letting him out)
If he starts regretting what he did what can you expect him to do besides cry his eyes out day and night and want to commit suicide?
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On July 25 2011 22:11 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 22:02 Zetter wrote:On July 25 2011 22:01 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 25 2011 21:52 Zetter wrote:On July 25 2011 21:49 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 25 2011 20:11 Longshank wrote:On July 25 2011 19:43 BearDK wrote:On July 25 2011 19:33 zYwi3c wrote:
I just want to say, that they should execute this guy ;/
21 years in Jail is just LOL. He gets 21, then another 21 and so forth and so on, as far as I know. Some major effort should be(and will be) put on rehibilitating him. If that's successful then that would be the ultimate punishment. How exactly do u picture rehabilitation of a person who killed 90 people? What is he supposed to be behaving like to qualify as rehabilitated? I don't think you come back from killing 90 people. Even more often then not people from warzones such as vietnam and iraq never manage to fully rehabilitate. If his reasons for the attacks really were ideology or religion, rehabilitation is most likely going to be successful through religious or ideological "indoctrination", if you can call it this way. how hard is it to fake? It should be pretty hard to fake in front of Norway's best psychologists and neurologists. highly doubt it. It's easy to fake something when you know what people would expect of you. Besides having mild beliefs is not a crime. You have somehow to gauge the level of violence proneness the person possesses.
Yes that's why there are experts doing it and not armchair psychologists.
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On July 25 2011 22:10 Sebzou wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 22:07 zeru wrote:On July 25 2011 22:03 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 25 2011 21:51 zeru wrote:On July 25 2011 21:49 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 25 2011 20:11 Longshank wrote:On July 25 2011 19:43 BearDK wrote:On July 25 2011 19:33 zYwi3c wrote:
I just want to say, that they should execute this guy ;/
21 years in Jail is just LOL. He gets 21, then another 21 and so forth and so on, as far as I know. Some major effort should be(and will be) put on rehibilitating him. If that's successful then that would be the ultimate punishment. How exactly do u picture rehabilitation of a person who killed 90 people? What is he supposed to be behaving like to qualify as rehabilitated? I don't think you come back from killing 90 people. Even more often then not people from warzones such as vietnam and iraq never manage to fully rehabilitate. Besides psychopaths are known to appear normal if not outright charming. This is a guy who supposedly was just another nice enough kid who was playing wow with friends. Rehabilitation is not possible in his case because there is no way to gauge it. The biggest serial killer in scandinavia killed 138 people and was released after 21 years and considered rehabilitated. link? http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/serialkillers/nesset.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnfinn_Nesset
That's pretty fucked up.
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On July 25 2011 22:12 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 21:53 Myrtroll wrote:How exactly do u picture rehabilitation of a person who killed 90 people? What is he supposed to be behaving like to qualify as rehabilitated? I don't think you come back from killing 90 people. Even more often then not people from warzones such as vietnam and iraq never manage to fully rehabilitate. If he starts regretting what he did, you could argue that he is on the road to being "rehabilitated". This should be the goal regardless. But there is a secondary thing if you are afraid of his release, and that is his own safety. I highly doubt he can ever be a free man, because there will be tons of people wanting his head once free, so they might keep him inside for life just for his own safety. Also in his case, with the insane planning he did, he could probably "fake" getting better, and thus still be a threat to society, so either way I'm pretty sure chances of him getting out is close to 0%. (no panel or what they use to determine it, in their right mind will ever take responsibility for letting him out) If he starts regretting what he did what can you expect him to do besides cry his eyes out day and night and want to commit suicide?
Sounds like the best possible outcome to me. I prefer that over the death penalty.
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On July 25 2011 21:53 Myrtroll wrote:Show nested quote +How exactly do u picture rehabilitation of a person who killed 90 people? What is he supposed to be behaving like to qualify as rehabilitated? I don't think you come back from killing 90 people. Even more often then not people from warzones such as vietnam and iraq never manage to fully rehabilitate. If he starts regretting what he did, you could argue that he is on the road to being "rehabilitated". This should be the goal regardless. But there is a secondary thing if you are afraid of his release, and that is his own safety. I highly doubt he can ever be a free man, because there will be tons of people wanting his head once free, so they might keep him inside for life just for his own safety. Also in his case, with the insane planning he did, he could probably "fake" getting better, and thus still be a threat to society, so either way I'm pretty sure chances of him getting out is close to 0%. (no panel or what they use to determine it, in their right mind will ever take responsibility for letting him out)
Arnfinn Nesset got a new name when he was released. I guess they would do the same with him.
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On July 25 2011 22:15 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 21:53 Myrtroll wrote:How exactly do u picture rehabilitation of a person who killed 90 people? What is he supposed to be behaving like to qualify as rehabilitated? I don't think you come back from killing 90 people. Even more often then not people from warzones such as vietnam and iraq never manage to fully rehabilitate. If he starts regretting what he did, you could argue that he is on the road to being "rehabilitated". This should be the goal regardless. But there is a secondary thing if you are afraid of his release, and that is his own safety. I highly doubt he can ever be a free man, because there will be tons of people wanting his head once free, so they might keep him inside for life just for his own safety. Also in his case, with the insane planning he did, he could probably "fake" getting better, and thus still be a threat to society, so either way I'm pretty sure chances of him getting out is close to 0%. (no panel or what they use to determine it, in their right mind will ever take responsibility for letting him out) Arnfinn Nesset got a new name when he was released. I guess they would do the same with him.
Unless they give him a new face I doubt a new name will help him that much.
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On July 25 2011 22:15 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 22:15 Sandermatt wrote:On July 25 2011 21:53 Myrtroll wrote:How exactly do u picture rehabilitation of a person who killed 90 people? What is he supposed to be behaving like to qualify as rehabilitated? I don't think you come back from killing 90 people. Even more often then not people from warzones such as vietnam and iraq never manage to fully rehabilitate. If he starts regretting what he did, you could argue that he is on the road to being "rehabilitated". This should be the goal regardless. But there is a secondary thing if you are afraid of his release, and that is his own safety. I highly doubt he can ever be a free man, because there will be tons of people wanting his head once free, so they might keep him inside for life just for his own safety. Also in his case, with the insane planning he did, he could probably "fake" getting better, and thus still be a threat to society, so either way I'm pretty sure chances of him getting out is close to 0%. (no panel or what they use to determine it, in their right mind will ever take responsibility for letting him out) Arnfinn Nesset got a new name when he was released. I guess they would do the same with him. Unless they give him a new face I doubt a new name will help him that much.
21 years in prison should change his face enough.
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On July 25 2011 22:15 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 21:53 Myrtroll wrote:How exactly do u picture rehabilitation of a person who killed 90 people? What is he supposed to be behaving like to qualify as rehabilitated? I don't think you come back from killing 90 people. Even more often then not people from warzones such as vietnam and iraq never manage to fully rehabilitate. If he starts regretting what he did, you could argue that he is on the road to being "rehabilitated". This should be the goal regardless. But there is a secondary thing if you are afraid of his release, and that is his own safety. I highly doubt he can ever be a free man, because there will be tons of people wanting his head once free, so they might keep him inside for life just for his own safety. Also in his case, with the insane planning he did, he could probably "fake" getting better, and thus still be a threat to society, so either way I'm pretty sure chances of him getting out is close to 0%. (no panel or what they use to determine it, in their right mind will ever take responsibility for letting him out) Arnfinn Nesset got a new name when he was released. I guess they would do the same with him.
Different case, different sentence afaik. The risk to society from Nesset, seems to be low. He pretty much abused his position to do what he did, and the targets were sick and elderly. Since he haven't done anything yet since he was released, the rehabilitation probably worked.
I don't think you can compare these cases, this one is much worse and totally unprecedented in Norwegian history.
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On July 25 2011 22:13 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 22:11 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 25 2011 22:02 Zetter wrote:On July 25 2011 22:01 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 25 2011 21:52 Zetter wrote:On July 25 2011 21:49 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 25 2011 20:11 Longshank wrote:On July 25 2011 19:43 BearDK wrote:On July 25 2011 19:33 zYwi3c wrote:
I just want to say, that they should execute this guy ;/
21 years in Jail is just LOL. He gets 21, then another 21 and so forth and so on, as far as I know. Some major effort should be(and will be) put on rehibilitating him. If that's successful then that would be the ultimate punishment. How exactly do u picture rehabilitation of a person who killed 90 people? What is he supposed to be behaving like to qualify as rehabilitated? I don't think you come back from killing 90 people. Even more often then not people from warzones such as vietnam and iraq never manage to fully rehabilitate. If his reasons for the attacks really were ideology or religion, rehabilitation is most likely going to be successful through religious or ideological "indoctrination", if you can call it this way. how hard is it to fake? It should be pretty hard to fake in front of Norway's best psychologists and neurologists. highly doubt it. It's easy to fake something when you know what people would expect of you. Besides having mild beliefs is not a crime. You have somehow to gauge the level of violence proneness the person possesses. Yes that's why there are experts doing it and not armchair psychologists.
First of all there are no specifically designed tests to gauge beliefs. That's just silly. Secondary psychological tests rely on accessing patients subconscious reactions and basic knee jerk reactions. Both of which is pretty hard if the patient knows the way test goes. Surely it's an unlikely scenario for Breivik to be an evil genius that can beat the system but i am of the opinion that why risk it.
And also your faith in "experts" is unfounded. US market was run by "experts." Chernobyl, Fukushima were handled by "experts" post crisis.
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On July 25 2011 22:17 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 22:15 vyyye wrote:On July 25 2011 22:15 Sandermatt wrote:On July 25 2011 21:53 Myrtroll wrote:How exactly do u picture rehabilitation of a person who killed 90 people? What is he supposed to be behaving like to qualify as rehabilitated? I don't think you come back from killing 90 people. Even more often then not people from warzones such as vietnam and iraq never manage to fully rehabilitate. If he starts regretting what he did, you could argue that he is on the road to being "rehabilitated". This should be the goal regardless. But there is a secondary thing if you are afraid of his release, and that is his own safety. I highly doubt he can ever be a free man, because there will be tons of people wanting his head once free, so they might keep him inside for life just for his own safety. Also in his case, with the insane planning he did, he could probably "fake" getting better, and thus still be a threat to society, so either way I'm pretty sure chances of him getting out is close to 0%. (no panel or what they use to determine it, in their right mind will ever take responsibility for letting him out) Arnfinn Nesset got a new name when he was released. I guess they would do the same with him. Unless they give him a new face I doubt a new name will help him that much. Change hairstyle, haircolor, get mustashe or beard. Doubt anyone will recognize him.
Look at Varg from when he was imprisoned and then Varg today. Beard, different hairstyle and hair color but it's still Varg.
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On July 25 2011 22:17 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 22:15 vyyye wrote:On July 25 2011 22:15 Sandermatt wrote:On July 25 2011 21:53 Myrtroll wrote:How exactly do u picture rehabilitation of a person who killed 90 people? What is he supposed to be behaving like to qualify as rehabilitated? I don't think you come back from killing 90 people. Even more often then not people from warzones such as vietnam and iraq never manage to fully rehabilitate. If he starts regretting what he did, you could argue that he is on the road to being "rehabilitated". This should be the goal regardless. But there is a secondary thing if you are afraid of his release, and that is his own safety. I highly doubt he can ever be a free man, because there will be tons of people wanting his head once free, so they might keep him inside for life just for his own safety. Also in his case, with the insane planning he did, he could probably "fake" getting better, and thus still be a threat to society, so either way I'm pretty sure chances of him getting out is close to 0%. (no panel or what they use to determine it, in their right mind will ever take responsibility for letting him out) Arnfinn Nesset got a new name when he was released. I guess they would do the same with him. Unless they give him a new face I doubt a new name will help him that much. Change hairstyle, haircolor, get mustashe or beard. Doubt anyone will recognize him.
True,, he already looks a bit like my sisters fiancé,, He does not have a very unusual appearence.
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Almost the exact same thing as Nesset happened in Sweden, a 19 year old nurse poisoned over 40 people, 27 died. He was only found guilty of 11 murders though and got out in 1990.
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If by some bizzaro event this guy would end up free some day, he'd most likely be tracked down and killed by vigilanties.
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On July 25 2011 22:26 Neeh wrote:
If by some bizzaro event this guy would end up free some day, he'd most likely be tracked down and killed by vigilanties.
As mentioned before he would get a new identity.
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a new beared won't help hide his already well known face.
Anyways, court hearing thing going live atm, they're quoting alot of his statements.
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custody with full isolation to 22. august
regular custody up to 26.september
Ban from letters, visitors, news and any other media for the whole time.
If I got it correcty
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On July 25 2011 22:33 Neeh wrote:
a new beared won't help hide his already well known face.
Anyways, court hearing thing going live atm, they're quoting alot of his statements.
Can you provide a link to the quotes, please?
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EPT
