EPTIraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 221
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Please guys, stay on topic. This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
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SkelA
Macedonia13085 Posts
On September 06 2014 19:45 xM(Z wrote: you can pay them a tax then live as an infidel. Yea sure...... untill a couple nutjobs come and slaughter you like a pig with a knife. | ||
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unkkz
Norway2196 Posts
On September 06 2014 19:48 SkelA wrote: Yea sure...... untill a couple nutjobs come and slaughter you like a pig with a knife. I don't exactly believe this either, however i have heard that they are supposed to allow this. A "plz dont kill me" tax in other words. | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
On September 06 2014 20:56 unkkz wrote: I don't exactly believe this either, however i have heard that they are supposed to allow this. A "plz dont kill me" tax in other words. Yeah, I don't believe that either...it's not like these ISIS guys are irrational... /irony | ||
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Reaper9
United States1724 Posts
Edit: Sorry if it sounds like I'm losing patience with this conversation, because I am. Remember what the Japanese did to the Chinese in WW2? Europeans to other Europeans? Any other war in history? Loot the losers, murder/rape/enslave them all. Infidels shouldn't even exist, according to the extremists. How'd it go for the journalists covering the war? Oh. they were all beheaded? Who is fucking surprised here, I sure am not. Remember the video of ISIS members taking 5-8 year old as brides? Murdering all the ethnic minorities? I'm sure they begged for mercy before being mowed down/raped/ ripped into pieces. Yes, effectively us as citizens, can't do much to help. Just remember what ISIS is. | ||
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SkelA
Macedonia13085 Posts
You choose to flee in most situations but if you are caught then you are left to convert or die. In most cases you are executed because of some logical reason according to the radical muslims. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
On September 06 2014 21:20 SkelA wrote: Infidels have 3 choices : flee, convert or die. You choose to flee in most situations but if you are caught then you are left to convert or die. In most cases you are executed because of some logical reason according to the radical muslims. Just convert then .. how hard can it be ? : D | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22552 Posts
On September 06 2014 22:29 ImFromPortugal wrote: Just convert then .. how hard can it be ? : D "Prove your faith, take this bomb and blow yourself up, Allah will thank you in heaven" Somehow I don't think converting is as easy as you make it sound. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On September 06 2014 21:12 Reaper9 wrote: ...They'll just take your money, and KILL YOU. How hard is that to comprehend? Edit: Sorry if it sounds like I'm losing patience with this conversation, because I am. Remember what the Japanese did to the Chinese in WW2? Europeans to other Europeans? Any other war in history? Loot the losers, murder/rape/enslave them all. Infidels shouldn't even exist, according to the extremists. How'd it go for the journalists covering the war? Oh. they were all beheaded? Who is fucking surprised here, I sure am not. Remember the video of ISIS members taking 5-8 year old as brides? Murdering all the ethnic minorities? I'm sure they begged for mercy before being mowed down/raped/ ripped into pieces. Yes, effectively us as citizens, can't do much to help. Just remember what ISIS is. Exactly remembering who they are is the most important thing. Irrational human beings. What do you do to irrational humans? 1. Try to educate them and others on how to confront them. 3. Lock them up and in severe cases isolate them to avoid negative influences on the following process. 4. Break them down slowly. Make them aware of their loses and gradually make them confront their humanity. 5. Teach others to deal with them and them to deal with others in less destructive ways. As much as psychology is a separate field than social science, how to deal with it seems pretty universal. The specific solutions are what will vary. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
by Koran, the Jews and Christians (the only ones who are considered people of the book) can retain their religion if they pay Jizyah. (that's in theory at least) | ||
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
On September 06 2014 23:39 xM(Z wrote: they are not irrational. they follow the Koran. by Koran, the Jews and Christians (the only ones who are considered people of the book) can retain their religion if they pay Jizyah. (that's in theory at least) Actually, they are by definition irrational. One of the fundamental theorems of Islam is that you submit yourself to the will of Allah which is above human reason. Islam itself deems human reason to be unworthy and pointless because everything that occurs does so because of the will of Allah, and it is a waste to try to understand it. It is called Dehellenization | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + i won't go into semantics about how ones rationality is greater/better then other ones, nor mention whites early racism here; a superior rationale gives you no rights (onto/upon others(. | ||
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
On September 07 2014 02:58 xM(Z wrote: if i replace there Islam with Christianity and Allah with God nothing much changes. sure, they might be in Christianity's inquisition times but we outgrown it didn't we? (well, most of us). + Show Spoiler + i won't go into semantics about how ones rationality is greater/better then other ones, nor mention whites early racism here; a superior rationale gives you no rights (onto/upon others(. Indeed Christianity did during the Romantic period. However in mainstream Islam today this is still (or currently) a major important step in submitting to Allah. Knowing this does not make me racist, and frankly, the accusation is ludicrous. Not saying that our "rationality" is better, but under the tenets of Islam you are actively denouncing reason, which means that by definition they cannot be "reasoned" with. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On September 07 2014 02:58 xM(Z wrote: if i replace there Islam with Christianity and Allah with God nothing much changes. sure, they might be in Christianity's inquisition times but we outgrown it didn't we? (well, most of us). + Show Spoiler + i won't go into semantics about how ones rationality is greater/better then other ones, nor mention whites early racism here; a superior rationale gives you no rights (onto/upon others(. I don't see any form of complete adherence to ideology, religion or for that matter any reasoning you cannot yourself justify in logical terms, as rational. When that is said, emotions are irrational and denying all irrationality is also problematic since it is what makes us who we are. It is the refusing of seeing other peoples rationing as having any merit, the lack of searching for other opinions and the acting upon irrationality that cause the problem. It is just easier to call it irrationality as such. You cannot change Bobs stubbornness and emotionality, but you can change Bobs perception of how they affect his worldview and thereby his urge to act upon it. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On September 07 2014 02:58 xM(Z wrote: if i replace there Islam with Christianity and Allah with God nothing much changes. sure, they might be in Christianity's inquisition times but we outgrown it didn't we? (well, most of us). + Show Spoiler + i won't go into semantics about how ones rationality is greater/better then other ones, nor mention whites early racism here; a superior rationale gives you no rights (onto/upon others(. The Christians there are umm... probably a lot more mild-mannered and constructive than European Christians to this day, especially the Balkan and Eastern European nutcases. So your argument about "inquisition times" is pretty invalid. Romania's Christian community isn't exactly the best model for a civil society lol (Not to say American society isn't pretty bad, and the most "Christian" parts are also the most backward/underdeveloped). But umm, I extremely doubt that your claim even with almost everyone there being Muslim as is the reality. Even now, I'd hypothesize about 90-95% of the people in the more modern societies (ie. excluding places like Saudi Arabia and Iran) are perfectly fine and normal people, and this is followers of Islam, which unlike your claim, is not comparable to Christianity in formation and ideology. Islam was formed by murderous barbarians and has a directly arrogant and oppressive regime particularly against non-Muslims. The un-twisted version of Islam is practically on par with the twisted version of medieval European warlords' Christianity. Yes, most Muslims disown a lot of the brutish things in the Quran and have been for the past 1300 years, and I can honestly tell you that the Muslim Koran and the Jewish Tanakh (aka Christian OT) and Talmud are extremely terrifying compared to the Gospels. However, this isn't a Muslim thing, it's a human thing. As stated, a TRUE Muslim as mandated by the Quran and the early Arabians from the peninsula is not a comfortable prospect. Fortunately, if Muslims are anything like human beings of any religion (which they are), they see it as a guideline and community thing than as a binding dictator. In Iraq, even despite the US installing an ethnic/sectarian system, you can't exactly look at most of the people and say they significantly different than the people in your neighborhood despite being Muslim (obv different culture/language and shit). Now, what follows is something I know second-hand, but for what it's worth from all the Iraqi Christians and other Iraqis I know in my hometown in CA, before '03 when the country was far more secular, you often couldn't tell one's religion in Baghdad or Mosul (specifically where all these people come from) if you didn't solicit them. Same went for Islamic sects as well. Shiite or Sunni didn't matter. Boy have things changed. But with the reduction of US influence, we can see the re-institutionalism of a more secular, non-sectarian political and social focus that previously existed. You see, the Arabian barbarians largely conquered the world's most advanced and civilized nations, who were under Greek and Persian rule preceding the conquests. These societies continued to be the most advanced and civilized nations in the world even with Islam, just as it was as Christian and the many pagan religions that existed over the millenia. Things only really changed when the Mongols literally killed everyone off and the Ottomans kept everyone down, which obviously set things backwards. But if you know anything about medieval history, very little was actually religiously motivated, but rather politically motivated. Religion back then was the same as America's "democracy" bullshit today: just a shitty excuse to justify murder and conquest. It's all politics. Even Al Qaeda has specific political goals and motivations. ISIS and people like Khomeini are a couple of the few factions in the world that you can say are really religiously motivated to literally fuck shit up, and no one denies that ISIS and Khomeini are two of the most insane entities of the modern era. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
In Raqqa: | ||
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AssyrianKing
Australia2118 Posts
"When Western Evil is mixed with Arab Stupidity, nations die!" And for everyone saying why don't they just convert, I'd rather die then turn Muslim, why would I change from a religion of Love and Forgiveness to a religion of death and dehumanization! (I am an Assyrian). But it is true that sometimes people do convert, it is an unknown fact that many people of Iraq's population's ancestors were Assyrians and were practicing Christians, but they all went through what we are going through now... | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On September 07 2014 12:55 PiPoGevy wrote: Too many people are comparing Chrisitans in the middle-east to Western Christianity, do I have to remind people that Eastern Christians were actually AGAINST the Crusades from the start and almost every single insistence of violence by Western Christians, Western Christians basically made life worse for us. Everything you see decent about the Muslims us Eastern Christians gave them, we created the good part of their culture! It goes as saying... "When Western Evil is mixed with Arab Stupidity, nations die!" And for everyone saying why don't they just convert, I'd rather die then turn Muslim, why would I change from a religion of Love and Forgiveness to a religion of death and dehumanization! (I am an Assyrian). But it is true that sometimes people do convert, it is an unknown fact that many people of Iraq's population's ancestors were Assyrians and were practicing Christians, but they all went through what we are going through now... Serious question: What does religion have to do with being against a brutal invasion of your homeland?  OF COURSE they didn't support the Crusades. lol. Iraqi Christians didn't support the Christian US's invasion of Iraq. In fact, from what I read over the years, top Iraqi Christian clerics place the direct and indirect blame for all the bad shit that's happened to Iraq and the Christians of Iraq over the past 20 and especially past 10 years on the USA. In fact, it happened again just a couple days ago.But you are incorrect on the account that the "good Muslim places" during the medieval period were made that way by Christians. Many of the people in the region still followed pagan religions before the Islamic conquests. The various great nations of the ancient Mideast / N. Africa were great before there was Christianity, nevermind Islam. Religion doesn't affect nation-building. Crazy pagan worshippers were apparently extremely good at it, for what it's worth. It's a tradition in the area that predates Christianity by millenia that existed all the way up to the Mongol conquests. | ||
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BeaSteR
Sweden328 Posts
On September 07 2014 13:11 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Serious question: What does religion have to do with being against a brutal invasion of your homeland? OF COURSE they didn't support the Crusades. lol. Iraqi Christians didn't support the Christian US's invasion of Iraq. In fact, from what I read over the years, top Iraqi Christian clerics place the direct and indirect blame for all the bad shit that's happened to Iraq and the Christians of Iraq over the past 20 and especially past 10 years on the USA. In fact, it happened again just a couple days ago.But you are incorrect on the account that the "good Muslim places" during the medieval period were made that way by Christians. Many of the people in the region still followed pagan religions before the Islamic conquests. The various great nations of the ancient Mideast / N. Africa were great before there was Christianity, nevermind Islam. Religion doesn't affect nation-building. Crazy pagan worshippers were apparently extremely good at it, for what it's worth. It's a tradition in the area that predates Christianity by millenia that existed all the way up to the Mongol conquests. I would argue that religion indeed had a great influence on nation building, especially during medieval amd renaissance times where religiously mixed nations had to cope with rebels amd Christian churches often were the place for science and development. It wasn't all backwards witch-hunting as some people tend to believe. While the Kings cared for the army, the church cared for scholars and education. That is what made christian nations truly great and a factor in why they surpassed most muslim nations. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
On September 07 2014 04:25 Catch]22 wrote: Indeed Christianity did during the Romantic period. However in mainstream Islam today this is still (or currently) a major important step in submitting to Allah. Knowing this does not make me racist, and frankly, the accusation is ludicrous. Not saying that our "rationality" is better, but under the tenets of Islam you are actively denouncing reason, which means that by definition they cannot be "reasoned" with. ...but under the tenets of Islam, they are actively denouncing your reasoning. @radiatoren: or, you could leave Bob alone and let him catch up. he will have to; and if you don't believe that he will, well there is a precedent - you, your ancestors. they did it and no one told them what to do (no other higher rationale).+ Show Spoiler + it's hard or even impossible to have that theory (live and let live) applied to current times since almost everyone with/in power is a fucking greedy asshole, but that would be the correct way to do it. @JudicatorHammurabi: it's about the thought process that leads to those actions, not the religion itself. we are better then them. that mentality opens the flood doors of evil so later, what you do in its name varies based on needs/wants/capabilities. | ||
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