EPTIraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 219
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Please guys, stay on topic. This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On September 03 2014 01:36 Catch]22 wrote: And I dont know why you want to pretend like large swaths of Syria isnt held by moderate rebels. What do you have to gain from it? What is a moderate? But I find it more problematic that things get misconstrued every time it is presented as a black/white situation. ISIS has started getting challenged on their cohesion and Al-Nusra doesn't have that much power on their own. It is still not as black-and-white as long as the semi-dictators, semi-organized Kurds and small independent militias can keep ISIS and Al-Nusra occupied to an extend where they won't get rest to organize training camps and a dirty bomb program like the one Syria is using (chlorine gasses is what they use today after the rest of their toys got taken away from them!). I would also be worried about Yemen and Oman in this context since AQAP have held their ground for some time there. Btw. are nobody worried that the Kurds might find another war afterwards to keep Kurdistan united and independent from their evil occupiers in Turkey and to a larger degree Iran? | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On September 03 2014 03:01 radiatoren wrote: Btw. are nobody worried that the Kurds might find another war afterwards to keep Kurdistan united and independent from their evil occupiers in Turkey and to a larger degree Iran? more likely is the kurds will break up into civil war of their own. Iraqi Kurdistan is only held together because the two main families agreed to split the place 50/50, but Syrian Kurdistan probably has its own elites too. But its okay, I am sure Kurd PR teams will convince the West that the Kurds are the good guys again and youll see US airstrikes. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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TheDougler
Canada8304 Posts
I'm kind of curious how that's even possible. What can one tell a 16 year old girl that would convince them to join ISIS? Correct me if I'm wrong but if she got to Syria it's not like they'd let her fight, right? She'd just get repeatedly forced upon most likely? | ||
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Simberto
Germany11528 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On September 03 2014 05:15 TheDougler wrote: I'm kind of curious how that's even possible. What can one tell a 16 year old girl that would convince them to join ISIS? Correct me if I'm wrong but if she got to Syria it's not like they'd let her fight, right? She'd just get repeatedly forced upon most likely? a lot of them want to belong to something bigger. If you look at how much they get to be the center of attention with all these vines and selfies and other bullshit and combine that with a sense of belonging and you get yourself high end dumassery from millennial douches. Just like some dumb punk kids in Germany in the 1960s and 70s turned to communist terrorism because they were trash, same thing. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/al-qaedas-new-front-jihadi-rap-110481.html?ml=m_u6_1 The English are right, these people need to have their citizenship stripped | ||
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unkkz
Norway2196 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9201 Posts
On September 03 2014 07:57 unkkz wrote: Probably been mentioned a lot, but where does Iran stand in all of this? they're supporting the "good guys" this time, ISIS is a bigger enemy to them than to Western world | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On September 03 2014 07:47 Sub40APM wrote: a lot of them want to belong to something bigger. If you look at how much they get to be the center of attention with all these vines and selfies and other bullshit and combine that with a sense of belonging and you get yourself high end dumassery from millennial douches. Just like some dumb punk kids in Germany in the 1960s and 70s turned to communist terrorism because they were trash, same thing. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/al-qaedas-new-front-jihadi-rap-110481.html?ml=m_u6_1 The English are right, these people need to have their citizenship stripped Well, especially the recruiters. The 16yo girl was probably brainwashed by all his bullshit and at that age you are very easy to influence. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On September 03 2014 01:36 Catch]22 wrote: And I dont know why you want to pretend like large swaths of Syria isnt held by moderate rebels. What do you have to gain from it? Unfortunately, by now, the "moderate" rebels by this point are extremely marginal compared to the various terrorist organizations, most notably Al Nusra and ISIS, not to mention the "moderate" rebels are violent insurgents anyways. What is interesting though is it it says alot about these insurgents and how moderate they are when they're still focusing almost their entire effort in a violent usurpation against a secular order rather than against two of the most savage terrorist organizations we've seen in Mideastern history overunning the country. The other two pretty much own everything that Syria doesn't. ISIS pretty much owns the northeast, while Al Nusra is the big dog in parts of the southwest and northwest. I have nothing to gain by bluntly stating the current situation. Sorry but it's no longer 2011. The scene right now is completely different and ISIS/Nusra are practically at the forefront of everything. Once at the forefront of the insurgency, the 'moderates' are now way in the backseat behind Islamic extremists. I don't know about you, but I don't and can't support Islamic terrorism. I'm actually more against it than anything else. I realize that may be biased on my part, but I'm convinced that Islamic extremism is one of the greatest scourges in the world right now. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Syrian_civil_war.png/1089px-Syrian_civil_war.png) Grey is ISIS Green is rebel (FSA, etc.) Yellow is Kurd Red is Assad | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On September 03 2014 09:40 ticklishmusic wrote: + Show Spoiler + Grey is ISIS Green is rebel (FSA, etc.) Yellow is Kurd Red is Assad Green also includes Al Nusra and Islamic Front, which are becoming (in case it isn't already) the most prominent insurgent group in Syria after ISIS. They are Islamic extremists (obviously Nusra is almost ISIS status in insanity though). Could you show a map that actually differentiates Islamic groups from others? That would be a lot more helpful. Let's not forget, that this is a highly sectarian conflict. At least per UN reports, there are sides based on religious affiliation, so it comes to no surprise that a fair amount of the problem with Assad is that he's Shiite. It would figure why groups like whatever 'moderate' insurgents exist are more reluctant to fight against Sunni Islamic terrorists like Al Nusra than against the Syrian government. In fact, and much more importantly to remember, the civil war was started by defecting military officers to form a Sunni military coup against a Shiite leader, for similar motivations to the many other military coups that have happened in the reason + some religious seasoning too. Obviously, it's worked out a lot worse than the average military coup in the Mideast. Of course we weren't fighting in Syria to see the idiocy of sectarian violence but in Iraq you could really see the utter stupidity of the 'sectarian' differences. You have two denominations that are less different than Catholicism vs Lutheranism and yet they fight like it's Gandalf vs. Balrog. Except it's even stupider, because the differences between the two Islamic denominations are not even spiritual/religious (except regarding the Imams) but political, from 1300 years ago. But a sectarianist society, it's exactly what Iraq transformed into post-2003 (it was pretty different before), and what we've seen explode in Syria over the past few years. On September 03 2014 03:01 radiatoren wrote: What is a moderate? But I find it more problematic that things get misconstrued every time it is presented as a black/white situation. ISIS has started getting challenged on their cohesion and Al-Nusra doesn't have that much power on their own. It is still not as black-and-white as long as the semi-dictators, semi-organized Kurds and small independent militias can keep ISIS and Al-Nusra occupied to an extend where they won't get rest to organize training camps and a dirty bomb program like the one Syria is using (chlorine gasses is what they use today after the rest of their toys got taken away from them!). I would also be worried about Yemen and Oman in this context since AQAP have held their ground for some time there. Btw. are nobody worried that the Kurds might find another war afterwards to keep Kurdistan united and independent from their evil occupiers in Turkey and to a larger degree Iran? Nobody is worried? If you recall, the Kurds were discussed to hell some pages back. If you know about Kurdish society, it's pretty simplistic, aggressive, and deeply tribalistic in the countries in which they reside. They're also quite politically divisive as well. The "independence rhetoric" is quite literally the greatest thing Kurdish leaders wield, because it keeps the Kurdish people and more particularly the radicals on hating something else more than hating each other. A war for "united Kurdistan" would more likely be a war of "Kurds killing each other for power". Even if that isn't actually the case, the Turks and Iranians you mention will more than gladly crush them, with the Turks being graced by Uncle Sam's blessings. | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On September 03 2014 08:00 Sent. wrote: they're supporting the "good guys" this time, ISIS is a bigger enemy to them than to Western world They support "good guys" because of keeping the religious influence not because of they are humanitarian etc.. Think ISIS as a cancerous tumor in the middle in which probably against the benefits of every actor in the area. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21713 Posts
On September 03 2014 18:40 ahswtini wrote: So a British hostage is on the chopping block next, our PM Cameron is chairing an emergency meeting about it. I honestly don't know if the correct move isn't for a huge international taskforce to just move in and scour the land of these IS rats. Would there even be support for such a move... You cant kill a movement like this with war. Sure you can drop in with bombs and armies. Shoot the place up some more and beat their army. Kill some "important" people but in the end they go underground, hide among the civilian population and once the west is done they come out again and go right back to what they were doing. There is no government in place to control them, the ones that exists were killed off or weakened by the very same western might your advocating for now and setting up a stable government with the means to keep the region safe will take decades of intensive work that no one is willing to commit to. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On September 03 2014 09:42 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Nobody is worried? If you recall, the Kurds were discussed to hell some pages back. If you know about Kurdish society, it's pretty simplistic, aggressive, and deeply tribalistic in the countries in which they reside. They're also quite politically divisive as well. The "independence rhetoric" is quite literally the greatest thing Kurdish leaders wield, because it keeps the Kurdish people and more particularly the radicals on hating something else more than hating each other. A war for "united Kurdistan" would more likely be a war of "Kurds killing each other for power". Even if that isn't actually the case, the Turks and Iranians you mention will more than gladly crush them, with the Turks being graced by Uncle Sam's blessings. US seems to play as many horses as they can in the region. As long as they don't hate the west as much as others in the area. That divisivity is diametrically in opposition to the united Iraq politicians are spewing, but I guess plausible deniability still is the official policy on these matters. And the Kurds aren't being graced by uncle Sam? As much as a civil war in Kurdistan is possible afterwards it will still depend on who has the guns after the current conflict and who they choose as their next target. Warriers will be warriers. I doubt Turkey would love it since EU is pretty bitchy about suppressing minorities and since Erdogan is creating a cult based on bridging Europe and the Middle East. So far Europe has already cooled relations significantly, so it is not really a good distraction for him when his campaign has Turkeys popular support comfortably in the bag. Iran may like some distraction from their internal idiocy around internet technology and the endless cultural/religious/national exceptionalism vs. modernisation between the government and the ayatollahs. Rouhani does not seem too popular among the ruling sharia gods council. On the other hand, they have plenty of other "projects" in the Middle East to divert attention to if it comes to that, like the mistreatment in Palestine where their brothers in Hamas are getting trampled by US supported jewish invaders (Israel does not get recognized by Iran), Yemen where their brothers are pushing ultimatums or proposing glorious solutions for another separation of power than what the current government offers in a concession to AQAPs terrorists (a naming most foreigners can agree to btw.). Or in Oman, Bahrain, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq etc. | ||
nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
On September 03 2014 08:00 Sent. wrote: they're supporting the "good guys" this time, ISIS is a bigger enemy to them than to Western world In Iran they have different variant of Islam and ISIS is probably not too friendly toward them. Also it's not very cool to have chaos in the neighbourhood. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On September 03 2014 21:48 nimdil wrote: In Iran they have different variant of Islam and ISIS is probably not too friendly toward them. Also it's not very cool to have chaos in the neighbourhood. And its not like the Assad regime are exactly "good guys". They are just the lesser evil compared to ISIS (and al nusra too). | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
PESHAWAR: In a bid to extend its influence in the South Asian region, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, (ISIS), commonly known as Daish, distributed pamphlets in Peshawar and border provinces of Afghanistan as well. The booklet titled Fatah (victory) is published in Pashto and Dari languages and was distributed in Peshawar as well as in Afghan refugee camps on the outskirts of the city. The logo of the pamphlet has the Kalma, the historical stamp of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and a Kalashnikov assault rifle. Some copies were also mysteriously sent to Afghan journalists working in Peshawar. On the last page of the pamphlet, the editor’s name appears to be fake and where the document has been published cannot be ascertained. Since long, Afghan resistance groups, including Haqqani Network, Hizb-e-Islami Afghanistan and Tora Bora group have been publishing similar pamphlets, magazines and propaganda literature in Peshawar black markets. The ISIS, introducing itself as Daulat-e-Islamia (Islamic State) in the pamphlet, has made an appeal to the local population for supporting its struggle for the establishment of an Islamic caliphate. Source | ||
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