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On April 18 2011 18:12 zocktol wrote:Could anyone of my finnish fellow TLers explain to me, why the "True Finns", oppose the things they oppose? Afaik they are even proposing, that women should not be equal to men or something in that fashion. I am utterly confused, always thought finnland was one of the dream countries with a shit ton of intelligent people, that are rather rational 
Well okay, I'll try. Finland has always had a strong economy, fair growth, and our deficit has never got out of control. That's why the general public of Finland has had it with countries like Greece (who lied to the EU about stuff) and Portugal now.
In essence the Finnish people do not want to pay up because other countries have acted like retards.
Did you know, that in Greece, loggers received extra salary for working outdoors?
Did you know, that in Greece, PM's daughters got a pension for life?
That's one half of the True Finns phenomenom. The other is "anti-immigration policy". They're not actually anti-immigration, but pro workbased-immigration. If people of any nationality want to come and work in Finland, that is okay.
We also have a very strong social security system, you basically get an assload of money even if you don't work. Some refugees seek to exploit this, and do not even look for work. There's some arab sites that specifically instruct people about to immigrate how to drain more money out of the system.
This is pretty much the gist of it.
Also, there's a whole lot of propaganda in foreign news outlets, or at least failed translations. The anti-abortion part is the party's leader's personal opinion because he is Roman Catholic. Most of the Finnish population (85% or so) are Lutheran.
And no, they're not proposing anything like women should not be equal to men.
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On April 18 2011 18:25 spede wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 18:12 zocktol wrote:Could anyone of my finnish fellow TLers explain to me, why the "True Finns", oppose the things they oppose? Afaik they are even proposing, that women should not be equal to men or something in that fashion. I am utterly confused, always thought finnland was one of the dream countries with a shit ton of intelligent people, that are rather rational Well okay, I'll try. Finland has always had a strong economy, fair growth, and our deficit has never got out of control. That's why the general public of Finland has had it with countries like Greece (who lied to the EU about stuff) and Portugal now. In essence the Finnish people do not want to pay up because other countries have acted like retards. Did you know, that in Greece, loggers received extra salary for working outdoors? Did you know, that in Greece, PM's daughters got a pension for life? That's one half of the True Finns phenomenom. The other is "anti-immigration policy". They're not actually anti-immigration, but pro workbased-immigration. If people of any nationality want to come and work in Finland, that is okay. We also have a very strong social security system, you basically get an assload of money even if you don't work. Some refugees seek to exploit this, and do not even look for work. There's some arab sites that specifically instruct people about to immigrate how to drain more money out of the system. This is pretty much the gist of it. Also, there's a whole lot of propaganda in foreign news outlets, or at least failed translations. The anti-abortion part is the party's leader's personal opinion because he is Roman Catholic. Most of the Finnish population (85% or so) are Lutheran. And no, they're not proposing anything like women should not be equal to men.
OK so i get that everybody thinks its annoying, that countries like Greece are not able to handle their finances, but afaik they have an "Anti-Europen" attitude.
And is ther a big amount of immigration to finnland from people that are not willing to work?
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Yeah it's true they're anti-European to an extent. I guess their support is mostly due to these few countries not being able to keep up, and the fact the union is now letting Turkey in too which is considered to be bad in Finland.
And there's a fair amount of those people, yes. And it doesn't help immigrants lead proportional crime rates in a bunch of cities, especially the more brutal crimes like rape.
I didn't vote them myself -- actually I didn't vote at all. But if I had it would have been a tough choice between National Coalition Party and True Finns.
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I might actually have to move away from the best country in the world because apparently 20% of our population are idiots. Seriously.... who votes on a party that is racist, wants Finland to close up and be in out own little bubble and wants us to move back in time to the 80's. Awesome job my fellow Finns! I'm actually almost ashamed of being a Finn right now.
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Immigrants make up 2% of Finland's population. Most Fins probably haven't even seen an Immigrant. But people always hate what they don't know. And I bet not as many people abuse the social security as you'd think.
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On April 18 2011 19:40 BlackFlag wrote:
Immigrants make up 2% of Finland's population. Most Fins probably haven't even seen an Immigrant. But people always hate what they don't know. And I bet not as many people abuse the social security as you'd think.
All of what you said is false. And how is your `bet´ of any value without anything to back it up with?
Bets and mis-informed "probabilities" aren't too hot arguments.
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I don't argue with ignorant people who vote for hateparties anyways. I've got better things to do with my time. People believe what they want to believe.
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I don't know how much of this election result is due to racism, nationalism or anti-europeanism, but I think it's good to have gained a strong voice against further EU bailouts.
Greece and Portugal screwed up, many other countries are doing the same, and the rest has had their eyes shut tight while it was and is happening. Our sweet little country shelled out nearly €5 000 000 000 for the Greek, EU and now our abortion of a financial practice. And by shelled out I mean borrowed. If we'd stuck half of that money in education we might actually get some of it back, but if anyone seriously believes Greece is going to pay it back while the euro is still worth something, he'd better go and see a neurosurgeon who operates with a sledgehammer.
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On April 18 2011 19:47 spede wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 19:40 BlackFlag wrote:
Immigrants make up 2% of Finland's population. Most Fins probably haven't even seen an Immigrant. But people always hate what they don't know. And I bet not as many people abuse the social security as you'd think. All of what you said is false. And how is your `bet´ of any value without anything to back it up with? Bets and mis-informed "probabilities" aren't too hot arguments.
actually... the number of immigrants in Finland right now is about 2,7% of the country's population so saying 2 or 3% is accurate enough. Also most immigrants live in big cities like Helsinki or Tampere so I won't agree with "Most Fins probably haven't even seen an Immigrant", but I do believe there are parts of this country that are a lot more ignorant about them then the people in e.g. Helsinki.
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On April 18 2011 19:40 BlackFlag wrote:Most Fins probably haven't even seen an Immigrant.
And it's stereotyping statements like this along with "TRUE FINNS HATE IMMIGRANTS" -rhetoric and similiar stuff that makes me want to vote "True Finns". I don't vote for them because I hate immigrants, I don't. What I hate is giving away Finnish money for free. You know, billions and billions of euros in charity money to countries who are not able to handle their own debts, while having to cut similar sums from our own budget.
To me it seems, the money government gains from raising taxes and cutting spending is given away straight away in name of "greater good". For countries who are unable to handle their own finances. Don't argue with that, they are unable do handle their own finances.
If they are able to handle their finances, why are "rescue packages" necessary?
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Well, to be honest. Nearly all imigrants are placed in Helsinki city suburbans, there are parts of Helsinki that are filled with crime and young somali gangs. Just take a look at swedens rinkeby for example? 90% of the people living there are immigrants.
I don't hate immigrants at all. It just pisses me off when they exploit our country and fail to intergrate to the society. They rarely go to school, they hang out with somalis (Almost all imigrants here are somali). Worst of all is that their crime rate is really high too. I would suggest a similar system to the US to the imigrants. 3-strikes-and-out, meaning that after they would have broken the law 3 times, theyd be banned from the country. This would obviously exclude usual stuff like speeding tickets etc.
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On April 18 2011 20:26 Greentellon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 19:40 BlackFlag wrote:Most Fins probably haven't even seen an Immigrant. given away straight away in name of "greater good".
That's just on the spot. "Greater good" with an assload of quotation marks and italic.
The money's not for greater good, like the development aid given to REALLY poor countries in Africa etc. That's where charity should go for. Not to Greece or Portugal. They're not poor countries!
They've just been living beyond their wealth, and as a result need to cut their standard of living. And not expect tiny northern countries to loan out billions.
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On April 18 2011 20:40 FreshVegetables wrote:
Well, to be honest. Nearly all imigrants are placed in Helsinki city suburbans, there are parts of Helsinki that are filled with crime and young somali gangs. Just take a look at swedens rinkeby for example? 90% of the people living there are immigrants.
I don't hate immigrants at all. It just pisses me off when they exploit our country and fail to intergrate to the society. They rarely go to school, they hang out with somalis (Almost all imigrants here are somali). Worst of all is that their crime rate is really high too. I would suggest a similar system to the US to the imigrants. 3-strikes-and-out, meaning that after they would have broken the law 3 times, theyd be banned from the country. This would obviously exclude usual stuff like speeding tickets etc.
Voting "True Finns" (word to word translation would be "Basic Finns" why wont they use that ? ) wont solve that. Timo Soini wont get Finland out of EU. Humatarian help is in a EU law so we have to take refugees.
Problem u said is more of a city structure problem. We need build citys they way that theres no ghetos/rich places.
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On April 18 2011 20:48 kroko wrote:Voting "True Finns" (word to word translation would be "Basic Finns" why wont they use that ? )
Their party's Swedish name is sannfinländarnas, from which it's translated. Actually, the party's name was supposed to be Tosi Suomalaiset at first; it wasn't liked. Then it was Varsinais-Suomalaiset, which was already in use. The current form is the third option 
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City structure problems can't be solved short or even mid term. Most large cities were built over centuries, which means they don't really have an overall plan in the central parts. Changes would have to happen as buildings get too old and need to be replaced.
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19%?! REALLY?! Finland accept a low amount of immigrants each year when compared to Sweden and our "anti-immigration party" only got 5-6% and even then the whole country went out on the streets to rally against racism. It makes me sick to my stomach to see this kind of politic disease spreading across the EU. But hey, thats democracy I guess.
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I'm quite worried about the situation.
True Finns are the red neck party, in my opinion. Their success doesn't bode well for Finland.
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On April 18 2011 20:59 venage wrote:
19%?! REALLY?! Finland accept a low amount of immigrants each year when compared to Sweden and our "anti-immigration party" only got 5-6% and even then the whole country went out on the streets to rally against racism. It makes me sick to my stomach to see this kind of politic disease spreading across the EU. But hey, thats democracy I guess.
There is a bit of a difference tho. Sverige Demokraterna seem to be much more anti-immigrant while Perussuomalaiset are more anti-EU with a bit of anti-immigration on the side.
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On April 18 2011 20:59 venage wrote:
19%?! REALLY?! Finland accept a low amount of immigrants each year when compared to Sweden and our "anti-immigration party" only got 5-6% and even then the whole country went out on the streets to rally against racism. It makes me sick to my stomach to see this kind of politic disease spreading across the EU. But hey, thats democracy I guess.
Swedens don't have problem with ghetos like rinkeby?
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On April 18 2011 21:15 ciaiei wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 20:59 venage wrote:
19%?! REALLY?! Finland accept a low amount of immigrants each year when compared to Sweden and our "anti-immigration party" only got 5-6% and even then the whole country went out on the streets to rally against racism. It makes me sick to my stomach to see this kind of politic disease spreading across the EU. But hey, thats democracy I guess. There is a bit of a difference tho. Sverige Demokraterna seem to be much more anti-immigrant while Perussuomalaiset are more anti-EU with a bit of anti-immigration on the side.
Judging by spedes explanatation at the top of page 4, I'd say the 2 are nearly identical.
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EPT
