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On April 19 2011 19:23 Mayhemia- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2011 18:20 aderum wrote:
No they come to finland bc they couldnt stay in thier country bc of war/starvation etc. Nobody wants to leave thier house home and family and go to another country and culture, but they have to in order to survive.
I am sad that ignorant people like you are a part of the Tl-community. Some do, some do not. There was a long article where they interviewed one of the more honest somalis. He told the interviewer that some of the immigrants are real mad eggs, who just come here to suck money out of our pockets. Why stay home when you can live well with other people´s money? Also, due to the family connection laws a lot of immigrants use other people´s children or even sell their own for smugglers. Once you get the kid in Finland, he/she can request family unification and suddenly 10-15 people who would have never been allowed in are coming lawfully in Finland. Also, it is not long since there was a somali woman in court who had cheated 50k euros annually from the welfare system in Finland. These kind of people do not belong here, and they are the reason why immigrants are hated and seen as lazy suckers. Heck, even the decent immigrants recognize this. Basically, we have enough criminals and suckers of our own whom we can´t just send in Sweden or somewhere else to be their problem. Why should we bear the burden of people unfit to live in western system? At least send back the problematic people.
Ofc, there will be bad people from somalia, but there are bad people from finland to, so shouldn't you want them out to?
Edit: Im gonna stop to look here now, there are to many ignorant people here for me to handle and i am probably gonna get warned again... so k thx bai
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Of course there are bad people from finland too but question is, do we want bad finns or do we want bad finns + bad somalians also?
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On April 19 2011 19:26 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2011 19:23 Mayhemia- wrote:On April 19 2011 18:20 aderum wrote:
No they come to finland bc they couldnt stay in thier country bc of war/starvation etc. Nobody wants to leave thier house home and family and go to another country and culture, but they have to in order to survive.
I am sad that ignorant people like you are a part of the Tl-community. Some do, some do not. There was a long article where they interviewed one of the more honest somalis. He told the interviewer that some of the immigrants are real mad eggs, who just come here to suck money out of our pockets. Why stay home when you can live well with other people´s money? Also, due to the family connection laws a lot of immigrants use other people´s children or even sell their own for smugglers. Once you get the kid in Finland, he/she can request family unification and suddenly 10-15 people who would have never been allowed in are coming lawfully in Finland. Also, it is not long since there was a somali woman in court who had cheated 50k euros annually from the welfare system in Finland. These kind of people do not belong here, and they are the reason why immigrants are hated and seen as lazy suckers. Heck, even the decent immigrants recognize this. Basically, we have enough criminals and suckers of our own whom we can´t just send in Sweden or somewhere else to be their problem. Why should we bear the burden of people unfit to live in western system? At least send back the problematic people. Ofc, there will be bad people from somalia, but there are bad people from finland to, so shouldn't you want them out to? Edit: Im gonna stop to look here now, there are to many ignorant people here for me to handle and i am probably gonna get warned again... so k thx bai
Sure. In Finland pedophiles that molest/rape (and get caught obviously) don't even go to prison 100%. In fact probably more of them go on probation than to prison and if they go to prison it's for like 2 months- so of course there are other problems too. Thought that was obvious.
But why would anyone intentionally want to increase problems.
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And if you have so bad luck after rape that you have to go to prison for a few months, no worry, its like a hotel. Here prisoners can make more than 2000€/month in jail so its actually pretty good if you get in.
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Well anyway, I might have sounded more critical(or racist if u really want to) than i actually am but even if you criticize immigration doesn't mean u r racist and want to ban all immigration. Just need to admit it's not all good either.
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I have to point out that the way PS is translated sort of gives the wrong impression. Perussuomalaiset would rather be Basic Finns and not True Finns. 'True Finns' sounds more "agressive" (if you will) to me. Also throwing out the nazi card is just overreacting. PS is, in my opinion, a populist party without working solutions for our problems. As I see it, they gained votes by giving easy solutions to deep and complicated problems.
Also I agree with
On April 19 2011 02:13 Vaelone wrote:
I would imagine that Kokoomus (Coalition?) will keep "True Finns" in a fairly tight leash and "True Finns" won't be able to come through with most of the promises they made, and it's probably better that way.
I am an 18-year-old student with not that much experience in politics, but I did do some research before voting. Bear this in mind before 'flaming'.
I voted for Kokoomus. Some think that they are populists, but their program was the one I agreed with most, since it made sense to me.
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On April 19 2011 19:26 aderum wrote:
Ofc, there will be bad people from somalia, but there are bad people from finland to, so shouldn't you want them out to?
No, they are our problem. It would not be fair to the other countries. However, if you ask my opinion, yes I´d love to send them away. Principle behind it just is not justified, so I would not do it, even if it is a tempting option.
(Even better, I´d put a ball & chain to the leg and dump them in sea)
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On April 19 2011 20:13 4mgg wrote:
...As I see it, they gained votes by giving easy solutions to deep and complicated problems...
Taking a stab in the dark here since I'm not that involved in Finnish politics, but the "complicated problems" that they gave "easy solutions" to, are they problems that the other parties refused to acknowledge existance of in the first place?
Last year in Sweden, if you as much as mentioned the word "immigration" media would publically behead you (figuratively speaking).
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Exactly Danjoh.
Anyone speaking about immigration in negative tone got jumped on by the whole media. People do get angry because majority of people I have met are just a little bit racists at least inside if not publicly. When someone finally says what people think, they get crucified. Not a wonder that people voiced the support to the more or less mediocre party, which would at least speak for them.
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The True Finns remind me to our "Swiss People Party".
Basically its toying around with peoples fear and ignorance, true populists... If you say u don't want criminal immigrants, good job, no one wants them... One the same page u can't hold responsible all immigrants or even all immigrants from another country for the deeds of a few...
We have thi famous argument with the prison statistics where we have proportionally a lot more immigrants in prisons compared to their actual size. But few people mention that it has a lot to do with the social background (poor, lack of perspective) rather than the origin.
And btw. Finnland got about 4% immigrants... that's pretty much nothing... to compare we have around 18-20% (not exactly sure) and still our state isn't collapsing...
You can have opinions about the EU and european or international integration as you want and like. But I think it's weak of a party to play on peoples fear and ignorance while the task of politicians should be to educate people and offering them different honest solutions and alternatives to actual problems.
I say down with the populists, whereever they are!... 
Edit: Even if it sounds deeply undemocratic, I honestly think some people should not have a party to speak for them or even get involved in politics. Nothing good ever comes from racism and hate. I think the democratic argument is weaker then the one to prevent racism (thats by the way, at least here, you can't say anything you want about jews, blacks or anyone, even if you think so... Which is a good thing!..)
Those populist parties play on the latent racism of a large part of the population... sad and a problem in our political system, since racist people get a voice through such parties. This should'nt be...
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task of politicians should be to educate people and offering them different honest solutions and alternatives to actual problems.
No their task is to represent folks and do just what people wants. Thats democracy.
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No, for a reason there are civil and human rights, since politicians should not just do what people want. Thats how fascism happened... Politicians should responsibly represent their people. Which includes different opinions but doesn't includes racism etc. (Which is what those parties are essentially based on, even if no one admits it...)
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On April 19 2011 20:26 Danjoh wrote:
Taking a stab in the dark here since I'm not that involved in Finnish politics, but the "complicated problems" that they gave "easy solutions" to, are they problems that the other parties refused to acknowledge existance of in the first place?
Immigration is one of the 'problems', yes. (As has been discussed in this thread.)
PS has been talking about more strict immigration policies, very general ideas without too much depth in them. NATO/foreign policy, public services, retirement age, nuclear power, taxes and education were the general subjects of discussion before the election. (Leaving immigration out of this, since PS is only one that has been really active about it, unless I have missed something huge.) PS has really general and broad ideas with little detail about everything. Other parties have been focusing on a few subjects instead. Immigration is still a very volatile thing to talk about and most of the major parties have been very precautious about it.
So to answer your question, the other parties do acknowledge the immigration 'problem', but are very careful about it, since it really stirs up alot of conservation and different opinions between people.
PS has SOME ideas I agree with, but their solutions just don't feel solid solid enough.
I am not very comfortable talking about politics and you shouldn't base your vision about finnish politics on what I write. I am interested in politics but I could be horribly wrong. If so, someone who knows our politics point out my misunderstandings and call me a noob.
On April 19 2011 20:44 Szordrin wrote:I say down with the populists, whereever they are!...
Nod. (:
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"True finns" dont want to stop all immigration <_> they just want all the leechers out of the system and only immigrants who come here to WORK not just SIT AROUND all day and rape at night. /nuff said
Only good thing about "true finns" is that atleast its not only 3 big parties now that rule with an iron fist. Maybe smthing will change for the better.
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"We want leechers out of the system". Who doesn't? How do you do it? "Well..."
A very populist thing to say, just like Szordrin pointed out.
On April 19 2011 20:44 Szordrin wrote:
Basically its toying around with peoples fear and ignorance, true populists... If you say u don't want criminal immigrants, good job, no one wants them...
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"The True Finns believe that all the important Finnish art has already been done and the task of today's culture is to worship it and copy it in order to strengthen Finnish identity. There is no need for anything new."
Guys seriously
This aint looking good
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On April 19 2011 21:20 Sh0guni wrote:
"The True Finns believe that all the important Finnish art has already been done and the task of today's culture is to worship it and copy it in order to strengthen Finnish identity. There is no need for anything new."
Guys seriously
This aint looking good
Source on that? Sounds like a very radical opinion and I haven't heard this one before..
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Good for you, Finns. I guess you looked over at the other side of the border to Sweden and said: "Hell no!"
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On April 19 2011 21:23 HAUER wrote:
Good for you, Finns. I guess you looked over at the other side of the border to Sweden and said: "Hell no!"
How this has anything to do with Swedish goverment?
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Immigrate bums get the same money as finnish bums...
The reason why lot of immigrates use welfrare system is because they dont get jobs, cause they dont know the language. Would u hire african/arabic/asian person who dosnt speak finnish ?
We need spend more money on dissolving immigrats to Finland. When this is done better they can enter the worklife more easily.
When looking at the crimerates, may I remind that finnish ppl were leading the same rates at Sweden in the 60's... Mainly cause they didnt have jobs, didnt know the language etc. Not anymore cause the ppl have integrated better to Sweden.
The truth is our ppl r aging and we need lot more taxpayers soon. High educated persons dont come to Finland -_-.
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EPT
