Politics are about compromise. You're lucky if you've found a party that fits your ideology 100%. For the rest of us, we need to find a party that match our thoughts and/or beliefs the most.
That's most likely a reason why the percentage is so high, people may look at it like this: "Well, I agree we shouldn't give our money away. If they don't pay back our pension money is in danger. Oh, and I agree the minimum age of pension shouldn't be raised. I'm not so sure about this whole immigration deal, though."
That would be 2/3 of things they agree with, that you might not find from other parties.
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But anyway, think I'm done here. I don't even really care about politics, just thought to write my own opinions and thoughts as to what has happened. Time to play some starcraft.
So let's say there is a party which has a program of exactly 3 things: Mandatory Starcraft training in public schools, Free Candy for everyone and Exterminating <insert racial minority>. But hey, you agree with 2/3 of their program, you just aren't that sure about the extermination part, should vote for them, right?
I'm not saying that True Finns will begin exterminating anyone, however their platform certainly has a few things that should make a rational person pause and seriously reconsider before voting for them.
On April 19 2011 16:46 aderum wrote: Squeegy you must be an high school drop out if you think that high representation in crime register is bc of the immegrants coming from an middle eastern country and not the social surounding and options they are given by thier goverment
Let's see what kind of answer your media has brainwashed for you about this.
On April 19 2011 16:46 aderum wrote: Squeegy you must be an high school drop out if you think that high representation in crime register is bc of the immegrants coming from an middle eastern country and not the social surounding and options they are given by thier goverment
So let's say there is a party which has a program of exactly 3 things: Mandatory Starcraft training in public schools, Free Candy for everyone and Exterminating <insert racial minority>. But hey, you agree with 2/3 of their program, you just aren't that sure about the extermination part, should vote for them, right?
If mandatory starcraft training and free candy outweigh extermination in your personal opinion, then yes, you should vote for that party. That is democracy. You vote for whoever the fuck you want. Hopefully, you look into your candidate/party prior to, though.
Now, obviously any reasonable person wouldn't vote for that kind of stuff.
About there being a "platform" for any kind of extreme stuff: I don't personally see it. Most of the immigrant-involved laws were "tightened" by the last government. True Finns aren't even proposing any additional new laws or correction of already in place laws.
Currently, Finland is a very safe place to live in. Even in the capital city of Helsinki there are barely any areas where you cannot go at night alone. People are afraid of this changing as a result of immigrant gangs and such -- even the KRP (National Bureau of Investigation) has warned that there are already some violent immigrant gangs forming.
It's basic human logic. If things are changing so you feel afraid of letting your kids go to school, or to let your wife take a jog in the evening, of-motherfucking-course you're going to vote for a party that promises to take a stricter stance against the bad apples. And only the bad apples.
Oh well. At least I managed to pick out and vote for the party that didn't want to enter into a coalition with True Finns. Thanks for the link (on page 1), btw, it was a great help
Oh, and for those that don't bother: A quick summary of page 4 in the PDF in Squuegy's post: In 2005, a foreigner was the suspect in 21% of the rapes. However, if one reads a little further, one sees that in 27% of those cases, the suspect was an Estonian, meaning that this is not statistics about just refugees, but all kinds of immigrants. Moreover, rape might be the one crime where the fewest incidents are actually reported, because so many of them are committed by family or someone close. A 2008 Norwegian estimate (I'll use that, because I don't know the term for dark figure in Finnish), estimates that about 10% of all rapes are actually reported. Assuming then, that the number is roughly the same for Finland, and that those 10% or close to it, are those that are committed by unknown persons and not by family or friends, we should assume that those 21% foreigners are really 21% out of the 10% of all rapes reported. To be fair, we should assume that out of those those 90% not reported, about 2,7% (the number of foreigners in Finland), are committed by foreigners, giving us a grand total of (21% * 10 ) + (2,7% * 90 ) ≈ 4,5%, meaning that 2,7% of the population is responsible for 4,5% of the rape crimes. That's still an overrepresentation, but very far from the 25% initially reported...
In conclusion, I'd say there's a very big difference between "25% of all rapes are done by foreigners" and "in 21% of all reported cases, the suspect was a foreigner"...
I was suspecting the very same, but I don't speak the language, thanks for your help in clearing that up.
I would also assume that such claims, one might even say lies, create a hostile enviroment with lots of racism, but it might just been a missunderstand/naive way of thinking. Either way, I would be very careful with any claims, especially when talking about emotional topics like foreigners or rape.
On April 19 2011 17:00 Squeegy wrote: The graph. Raiskaus means rape. The latter box is percentage of a given crime commited by immigrants.
As far as I understand it the graph has nothing to do with crimes commited but it is about suspects. Please be more specific/directly quote what you mean/translate it (as it seems google language changes "commited" to "suspected").
You're actually completely right, I confused commit with accused. I assumed your problem was with the percentage thus I managed to miss it in your post.
On April 19 2011 17:48 spede wrote: It's basic human logic. If things are changing so you feel afraid of letting your kids go to school, or to let your wife take a jog in the evening, of-motherfucking-course you're going to vote for a party that promises to take a stricter stance against the bad apples. And only the bad apples.
So, do other parties in Finland not recognize this as a problem or are they simply not willing to address it? Tougher penalties, which seems to be what True Finns is proposing is most likely not the right answer to this. However, if they are the only party that have even recognized it as a problem, then fair enough.
As for my previous post, don't think for a second that people won't vote for such a party, all you need to do is disguise the last point as something else. The more people agree with the rest of your views, the thinner the disguise can be.
Immigrants come here ONLY bc they know we give them free house, free money (tons if know what to do) and they can invite their "familys" to live here free and get income too with no worries about going to work. They are very rude people bc we are very calm people and are not used to that kinda living. The fact is that they make A SIGNIFICANT amount of crimes and rapes here espoo/helsinki/vantaa area, that is just true and cannot be dodged.
On April 19 2011 18:06 FinBenton wrote: The fact is that they make A SIGNIFICANT amount of crimes and rapes here espoo/helsinki/vantaa area, that is just true and cannot be dodged.
They poison wells as well, right? You just can't proof it, but you don't need to, because it is a fact and true.
On April 19 2011 18:06 FinBenton wrote: Immigrants come here ONLY bc they know we give them free house, free money (tons if know what to do) and they can invite their "familys" to live here free and get income too with no worries about going to work. They are very rude people bc we are very calm people and are not used to that kinda living. The fact is that they make A SIGNIFICANT amount of crimes and rapes here espoo/helsinki/vantaa area, that is just true and cannot be dodged.
No they come to finland bc they couldnt stay in thier country bc of war/starvation etc. Nobody wants to leave thier house home and family and go to another country and culture, but they have to in order to survive.
I am sad that ignorant people like you are a part of the Tl-community.
On April 19 2011 18:06 FinBenton wrote: The fact is that they make A SIGNIFICANT amount of crimes and rapes here espoo/helsinki/vantaa area, that is just true and cannot be dodged.
They poison wells as well, right? You just can't proof it, but you don't need to, because it is a fact and true.
Its been many times on the news so I dont lie, if you dont know our situation and dont live here then dont talk like you do.
e. And im not a racist, immigrants with education and a will to go to work are always welcome if they try to integrate and dont make crimes. Mut people from somalia and romania come here only for free money. I mean why live in crazy country trying to work when you can come here with your kids and get a house + 10-40k year for absolutely free AND you dont go to jail from sexual crimes?
On April 19 2011 01:55 skutz wrote: I'd say it's more of a learned opinion than a personal preference. Even the one guy who supports True Finns in this thread (Mayhemia) called them stupid. He also said "Nazi party, political disease, hate party, if it were so I would have voted for them," just as a headsup for what type of person defends the PS.
Well, it´s not the personal preference to clear out some misunderstandings. I do not believe in emotional politics, which people seem to prefer in here. It´s emotical to shout out that TrueFinns are nazis etc. It is however incorrect.
I personally do not support them, because yes, they are not intelligent people at all, or well, small minority of them are capable of political work. Still I think that they are going to mess up most of time.
Also, yes, I do openly favor NS policies. Whilst the adaption in Germany had infamous results, I do believe NS would be best option. However, as every political system, it needs perfect people to work perfectly. Everyone knows this is not possible. Even then, I prefer real Far-Right parties consisting of boneheads since at least they are truthful and passionate. TrueFinns on the other hand are in the end same Bullcrap in a new package. There´s no evidence that Finland´s policies would change drastically due to TrueFinns making it in to the main governing coalition. Even the Portugal package is in danger because of Social Democrats and TrueFinns combined. Not only because couple of redneck hillbillies. Now add up the fact that immigration is a hot topic at the moment, and most if not all parties have pressure to tighten the rather liberal immigration laws. I do not think that any "change" is actually due to TrueFinns, but more likely due to the opinions as a whole.
A lot of people who dislike immigration dislike the TrueFinns even more.
Even some of my friends who are clearly leftist are laughing at alleged nazi accusations, due to the fact that NSDAP was on a completely different level, and spewing pointless misinformation on the forums ain´t really profitable.
On April 19 2011 16:46 aderum wrote: Squeegy you must be an high school drop out if you think that high representation in crime register is bc of the immegrants coming from an middle eastern country and not the social surounding and options they are given by thier goverment
Hahaha just must be fucking joking with me. My media brainwashing me? And then you send me a video from an open racist and opponent of multiculture.
I can send you just as many videos of "aryan"people being violent and fighting as you can send me videos of "muslims" being violent and fighting, so trying to use that video as an argument just proves to the rest of us just how ignorant and stupid you are.
On April 19 2011 16:46 aderum wrote: Squeegy you must be an high school drop out if you think that high representation in crime register is bc of the immegrants coming from an middle eastern country and not the social surounding and options they are given by thier goverment
Hahaha just must be fucking joking with me. My media brainwashing me? And then you send me a video from an open racist and opponent of multiculture.
I can send you just as many videos of "aryan"people being violent and fighting as you can send me videos of "muslims" being violent and fighting, so trying to use that video as an argument just proves to the rest of us just how ignorant and stupid you are.
On April 19 2011 18:06 FinBenton wrote: Immigrants come here ONLY bc they know we give them free house, free money (tons if know what to do) and they can invite their "familys" to live here free and get income too with no worries about going to work. They are very rude people bc we are very calm people and are not used to that kinda living. The fact is that they make A SIGNIFICANT amount of crimes and rapes here espoo/helsinki/vantaa area, that is just true and cannot be dodged.
No they come to finland bc they couldnt stay in thier country bc of war/starvation etc. Nobody wants to leave thier house home and family and go to another country and culture, but they have to in order to survive.
I am sad that ignorant people like you are a part of the Tl-community.
Sure some have to escape war. Shouldn't mean that they don't have to work in the country they run to.
On April 19 2011 18:06 FinBenton wrote: The fact is that they make A SIGNIFICANT amount of crimes and rapes here espoo/helsinki/vantaa area, that is just true and cannot be dodged.
They poison wells as well, right? You just can't proof it, but you don't need to, because it is a fact and true.
You can translate that if you want. When it comes to sexual crimes, we have like 3% immigrants and over 30% of sexual crimes are made by immigrants... And then you ask why are people voting for true finns? BC they love their wifes and girlfriends.
Yo, they seriously get shitloads of money if they play their buttons right. No wonder everyone walks here with new iPhones and 200 € worth jeans and shit.
EDIT Expect students and rest of the residents. ( Unless they are wealthy)
On April 19 2011 18:20 aderum wrote: No they come to finland bc they couldnt stay in thier country bc of war/starvation etc. Nobody wants to leave thier house home and family and go to another country and culture, but they have to in order to survive.
I am sad that ignorant people like you are a part of the Tl-community.
Some do, some do not. There was a long article where they interviewed one of the more honest somalis. He told the interviewer that some of the immigrants are real mad eggs, who just come here to suck money out of our pockets.
Why stay home when you can live well with other people´s money? Also, due to the family connection laws a lot of immigrants use other people´s children or even sell their own for smugglers. Once you get the kid in Finland, he/she can request family unification and suddenly 10-15 people who would have never been allowed in are coming lawfully in Finland.
Also, it is not long since there was a somali woman in court who had cheated 50k euros annually from the welfare system in Finland. These kind of people do not belong here, and they are the reason why immigrants are hated and seen as lazy suckers.
Heck, even the decent immigrants recognize this.
Basically, we have enough criminals and suckers of our own whom we can´t just send in Sweden or somewhere else to be their problem. Why should we bear the burden of people unfit to live in western system? At least send back the problematic people.
On April 19 2011 19:17 PeZuY wrote: Yo, they seriously get shitloads of money if they play their buttons right. No wonder everyone walks here with new iPhones and 200 € worth jeans and shit.
EDIT Expect students and rest of the residents. ( Unless they are wealthy)
Yeah normally news are pretty quiet about how much immigrants get but sometime ago there was one case in the news about immigrant mom with few kids and she had free big house in the center of Helsinki and free income about 40k€ (if you have more kids you get more money). Of course normally they dont get that much but that just tells what they can get when they know papers to apply.
EPT
Time to play some starcraft.
