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On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:10 Blix wrote:On September 19 2010 17:01 blitzkrieger wrote:
I hate getting into these arguments because I don't have any sources for anything anymore... but there is no value to human life in atheism at all. Humans are just another animal. If you can profit off the expense of another human thats fine.
Do you realize that this (and one of your previous statements) is actually quite offensive to atheists? Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null).
If you want to explain "atheism by definition," how about looking up the definition of atheism rather than bringing up the natural mechanics of evolution.
"Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist."
An atheist could reject the theory of evolution and still be an atheist.
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On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:10 Blix wrote:On September 19 2010 17:01 blitzkrieger wrote:
I hate getting into these arguments because I don't have any sources for anything anymore... but there is no value to human life in atheism at all. Humans are just another animal. If you can profit off the expense of another human thats fine.
Do you realize that this (and one of your previous statements) is actually quite offensive to atheists? Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null).
You give me a definition of Evolution? That's not Atheism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Also, that definition of Evolution obviously does not encompass the whole idea of it. You're taking the barest slice of the theory of Evolution and warping it to your own twisted beliefs. Where in that definition does it say "lack of morality"?
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On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:10 Blix wrote:On September 19 2010 17:01 blitzkrieger wrote:
I hate getting into these arguments because I don't have any sources for anything anymore... but there is no value to human life in atheism at all. Humans are just another animal. If you can profit off the expense of another human thats fine.
Do you realize that this (and one of your previous statements) is actually quite offensive to atheists? Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null).
Thats just worshiping Charles Darwin lol. The fact that you believe this to be true, or even remotely plausible, just goes to show the huge rift between a religious and a secular value system.
Evolution does not have goals. Goals imply agency. Evolution is the statistical description of a trend in complex structures. As an Agent entity, why would I live my life according to a statistic? That is literally absurd. An Analogy would be if I told you Americans have an average of 2.3 children, and you interpreted that as America forces you to have two children and a disembodied fetus head.
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I, for one, can't believe that people still actually seriously cling to these arcane religions. It really amazes me. You REALLY gotta have the blinders on to think that the world written about in the Bible is the world we actually live in.
These "Christian" type people seriously overestimate their importance and don't realize they are just a tiny whisper in time. Like the hundreds of silly religions that preceded them. In 5000 years Christians will be seen as we see Egyptian religion now. Or Roman gods, or ancient Greek gods. Just a bunch of mystical rigmarole slapped together to justify power systems.
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On September 19 2010 17:15 aimaimaim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 16:45 blitzkrieger wrote:
If Hitler used the Church for anything it was just that, to use them. I'm pretty sure Japanese aren't a master race according to Hitler (or Italians for that matter) yet he enlisted their aid to accomplish his own goals. If Hitler had won I am sure he would have disposed of not only the Church but also Japan when he saw fit.
I mean even if you believe the Catholic Church helped Hitler I don't think anyone believes that Christian values and Nazism have any real similarities. And its in the Christian religion that the Church (organization) can and will become corrupt, it was said be Jesus too.
If you take away religion you are just left with natural selection. And people will abuse that to say who is "fit" or not and be even more selfish. I mean WW2 already had that. Life is a FFA where every action is to gain and everyone are really enemies. There is no justification for anything except to further oneself. Things like abortion are already accepted by many and soon we will have designer babies because "its not a life". They already do selective abortion in China for women which is a huge problem, I read there will be 120million bachelors in China in a few years because they aborted so many female babies, wish I had the source...
I think atheism is the most dangerous thing out there because it removes all restraints and takes away any morals and inserts nothing. Human beings are selfish and evil and taking off the restraints will unleash the monster. You can justify anything with atheism as long as if further's your own goals. Atheists are only accountable to themselves and can easily change any moral or value. We have already seen it with Hitler, Stalin, and Mao among others. Human beings become expendable and their is no value to life (look at abortion). People are already selfish and apathetic but the rise in militant atheism is going to make it even worse.
Most people believe this even though the internet, and gaming are filled with young liberals/atheists for the most part so I'll get like 50 flames for this but I don't care. You can criticize me and the Pope all you want but I should be able to criticize atheism just as well.
wtf are you talking about?? morals? you look for morals in religion? tell me 1 concrete event where atheism is bad and ill give you 10 concrete events why organized religion is bad .. fuck the pope .. tell me, why do christians all over the world needs a pope?
*cough* *cough* The Pope is the leader of the catholic faith, thank you very much. He has nothing to do with Christianity.
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On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:10 Blix wrote:On September 19 2010 17:01 blitzkrieger wrote:
I hate getting into these arguments because I don't have any sources for anything anymore... but there is no value to human life in atheism at all. Humans are just another animal. If you can profit off the expense of another human thats fine.
Do you realize that this (and one of your previous statements) is actually quite offensive to atheists? Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null).
than how are you going to use evolution as a rebuttal to this when you used evolution to coincide with your beliefs for the dolphins. Clearly something doesn't make sense here.
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On September 19 2010 17:27 Pioneer wrote:
Comments like his are the reason that the average Christian is bashed so often. Granted the militant atheists don't make it easy. They forget that the loudest people tend to be the dumbest. A couple idiots are not an accurate representation of a whole people.
Also funny how he thinks it's appropriate to make these statements, considering all the problems the Catholic Church has been facing lately you'd think that he would work more towards appeasing the general populace rather than make inflammatory comments.
edit: Kammeyer where do you come up with these statistics? "93% of scientists are not atheist in the slightest" Atheism is growing, it's becoming more and more popular to state that you don't believe in a God than it is to say that you do.
If you're going to try and defend religion at least do it intelligently rather than blurt out false statistics and opinions.
Its not the job of ANY Christian regardless of denomination to fall in line with public opinion or be liked. In fact if the world loves you and accepts you then you are failing as a Christian. Your job is to
A) Have faith
B1) Spread faith
B2) Try to emulate Jesus (and fail miserably I might add)
Public opinion changes from day to day. I'm going to say something and you must keep a straight face. Are you ready.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On September 19 2010 17:39 Half wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:10 Blix wrote:On September 19 2010 17:01 blitzkrieger wrote:
I hate getting into these arguments because I don't have any sources for anything anymore... but there is no value to human life in atheism at all. Humans are just another animal. If you can profit off the expense of another human thats fine.
Do you realize that this (and one of your previous statements) is actually quite offensive to atheists? Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null). Thats just worshiping Charles Darwin lol. The fact that you believe this to be true, or even remotely plausible, just goes to show the huge rift between a religious and a secular value system. Evolution does not have goals. Goals imply agency. Evolution is the statistical description of a trend in complex structures. As an Agent entity, why would I live my life according to a statistic? That is literally absurd. An Analogy would be if I told you Americans have an average of 2.3 children, and you interpreted that as America forces you to have two children and a disembodied fetus head.
I know it doesn't have goals or think. Thank you for that. I should have said Operation.
Your analogy sucks.
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On September 19 2010 17:39 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:15 aimaimaim wrote:On September 19 2010 16:45 blitzkrieger wrote:
If Hitler used the Church for anything it was just that, to use them. I'm pretty sure Japanese aren't a master race according to Hitler (or Italians for that matter) yet he enlisted their aid to accomplish his own goals. If Hitler had won I am sure he would have disposed of not only the Church but also Japan when he saw fit.
I mean even if you believe the Catholic Church helped Hitler I don't think anyone believes that Christian values and Nazism have any real similarities. And its in the Christian religion that the Church (organization) can and will become corrupt, it was said be Jesus too.
If you take away religion you are just left with natural selection. And people will abuse that to say who is "fit" or not and be even more selfish. I mean WW2 already had that. Life is a FFA where every action is to gain and everyone are really enemies. There is no justification for anything except to further oneself. Things like abortion are already accepted by many and soon we will have designer babies because "its not a life". They already do selective abortion in China for women which is a huge problem, I read there will be 120million bachelors in China in a few years because they aborted so many female babies, wish I had the source...
I think atheism is the most dangerous thing out there because it removes all restraints and takes away any morals and inserts nothing. Human beings are selfish and evil and taking off the restraints will unleash the monster. You can justify anything with atheism as long as if further's your own goals. Atheists are only accountable to themselves and can easily change any moral or value. We have already seen it with Hitler, Stalin, and Mao among others. Human beings become expendable and their is no value to life (look at abortion). People are already selfish and apathetic but the rise in militant atheism is going to make it even worse.
Most people believe this even though the internet, and gaming are filled with young liberals/atheists for the most part so I'll get like 50 flames for this but I don't care. You can criticize me and the Pope all you want but I should be able to criticize atheism just as well.
wtf are you talking about?? morals? you look for morals in religion? tell me 1 concrete event where atheism is bad and ill give you 10 concrete events why organized religion is bad .. fuck the pope .. tell me, why do christians all over the world needs a pope? *cough* *cough* The Pope is the leader of the catholic faith, thank you very much. He has nothing to do with Christianity.
Catholicism is a type of Christianity so he does but its not to the whole Christian faith
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The argument of "the population of Atheists is growing so much everyday!" It doesn't matter, man. It's like no one understands that it's not any different than the course of history. The time of Renaissance was no different. People thought they could overcome and they spent tons of times believing so and studying science and thinking they could overcome religion.
And then? The reformation came. It's no different. Society will take the same exact course within the next 50+ years. People will go RIGHT back to the time of reformation and people will start confiding in religion once again. to the comment of "Scientists now surpass Da Vinci and any other scientist of that time." The only reason they ever began to surpass those scientists is because of the information they gave to pass on. Even after passing on that information, they continued to (at the end of the their life) believe in some form of Creator. I really could not care less about the argument of science versus religion. Everything in the Universe we see is so old that it's nearly impossible to even begin to give a shit about about what any scientist has to say.
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On September 19 2010 17:37 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:10 Blix wrote:On September 19 2010 17:01 blitzkrieger wrote:
I hate getting into these arguments because I don't have any sources for anything anymore... but there is no value to human life in atheism at all. Humans are just another animal. If you can profit off the expense of another human thats fine.
Do you realize that this (and one of your previous statements) is actually quite offensive to atheists? Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null). If you want to explain "atheism by definition," how about looking up the definition of atheism rather than bringing up the natural mechanics of evolution. "Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist." An atheist could reject the theory of evolution and still be an atheist.
Ok then tell me where you get your morals and why these are to be followed.
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On September 19 2010 17:41 Sad[Panda] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:39 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On September 19 2010 17:15 aimaimaim wrote:On September 19 2010 16:45 blitzkrieger wrote:
If Hitler used the Church for anything it was just that, to use them. I'm pretty sure Japanese aren't a master race according to Hitler (or Italians for that matter) yet he enlisted their aid to accomplish his own goals. If Hitler had won I am sure he would have disposed of not only the Church but also Japan when he saw fit.
I mean even if you believe the Catholic Church helped Hitler I don't think anyone believes that Christian values and Nazism have any real similarities. And its in the Christian religion that the Church (organization) can and will become corrupt, it was said be Jesus too.
If you take away religion you are just left with natural selection. And people will abuse that to say who is "fit" or not and be even more selfish. I mean WW2 already had that. Life is a FFA where every action is to gain and everyone are really enemies. There is no justification for anything except to further oneself. Things like abortion are already accepted by many and soon we will have designer babies because "its not a life". They already do selective abortion in China for women which is a huge problem, I read there will be 120million bachelors in China in a few years because they aborted so many female babies, wish I had the source...
I think atheism is the most dangerous thing out there because it removes all restraints and takes away any morals and inserts nothing. Human beings are selfish and evil and taking off the restraints will unleash the monster. You can justify anything with atheism as long as if further's your own goals. Atheists are only accountable to themselves and can easily change any moral or value. We have already seen it with Hitler, Stalin, and Mao among others. Human beings become expendable and their is no value to life (look at abortion). People are already selfish and apathetic but the rise in militant atheism is going to make it even worse.
Most people believe this even though the internet, and gaming are filled with young liberals/atheists for the most part so I'll get like 50 flames for this but I don't care. You can criticize me and the Pope all you want but I should be able to criticize atheism just as well.
wtf are you talking about?? morals? you look for morals in religion? tell me 1 concrete event where atheism is bad and ill give you 10 concrete events why organized religion is bad .. fuck the pope .. tell me, why do christians all over the world needs a pope? *cough* *cough* The Pope is the leader of the catholic faith, thank you very much. He has nothing to do with Christianity. Catholicism is a type of Christianity so he does but its not to the whole Christian faith
Warning: European humor may be a TOTAL waste of time on these boards.
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On September 19 2010 17:42 cursor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:41 Sad[Panda] wrote:On September 19 2010 17:39 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On September 19 2010 17:15 aimaimaim wrote:On September 19 2010 16:45 blitzkrieger wrote:
If Hitler used the Church for anything it was just that, to use them. I'm pretty sure Japanese aren't a master race according to Hitler (or Italians for that matter) yet he enlisted their aid to accomplish his own goals. If Hitler had won I am sure he would have disposed of not only the Church but also Japan when he saw fit.
I mean even if you believe the Catholic Church helped Hitler I don't think anyone believes that Christian values and Nazism have any real similarities. And its in the Christian religion that the Church (organization) can and will become corrupt, it was said be Jesus too.
If you take away religion you are just left with natural selection. And people will abuse that to say who is "fit" or not and be even more selfish. I mean WW2 already had that. Life is a FFA where every action is to gain and everyone are really enemies. There is no justification for anything except to further oneself. Things like abortion are already accepted by many and soon we will have designer babies because "its not a life". They already do selective abortion in China for women which is a huge problem, I read there will be 120million bachelors in China in a few years because they aborted so many female babies, wish I had the source...
I think atheism is the most dangerous thing out there because it removes all restraints and takes away any morals and inserts nothing. Human beings are selfish and evil and taking off the restraints will unleash the monster. You can justify anything with atheism as long as if further's your own goals. Atheists are only accountable to themselves and can easily change any moral or value. We have already seen it with Hitler, Stalin, and Mao among others. Human beings become expendable and their is no value to life (look at abortion). People are already selfish and apathetic but the rise in militant atheism is going to make it even worse.
Most people believe this even though the internet, and gaming are filled with young liberals/atheists for the most part so I'll get like 50 flames for this but I don't care. You can criticize me and the Pope all you want but I should be able to criticize atheism just as well.
wtf are you talking about?? morals? you look for morals in religion? tell me 1 concrete event where atheism is bad and ill give you 10 concrete events why organized religion is bad .. fuck the pope .. tell me, why do christians all over the world needs a pope? *cough* *cough* The Pope is the leader of the catholic faith, thank you very much. He has nothing to do with Christianity. Catholicism is a type of Christianity so he does but its not to the whole Christian faith Warning: European humor may be a TOTAL waste of time on these boards.
who knows I may be romanian
I don't know why I get involved in these threads defenders of them are generally close minded and confrontational in any sense to defend what they believe (which isn't terrible they just can't say they have lost or let others think they have lost so they fight pointlessly onward.) and the basher's have modern society on their side for the most part so its like a giant why not there's debatably more literal evidence for them anyway
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On September 19 2010 17:39 cursor wrote:
I, for one, can't believe that people still actually seriously cling to these arcane religions. It really amazes me. You REALLY gotta have the blinders on to think that the world written about in the Bible is the world we actually live in.
These "Christian" type people seriously overestimate their importance and don't realize they are just a tiny whisper in time. Like the hundreds of silly religions that preceded them. In 5000 years Christians will be seen as we see Egyptian religion now. Or Roman gods, or ancient Greek gods. Just a bunch of mystical rigmarole slapped together to justify power systems.
That's why Judaism has been around for nearly 7,000 years, right? because it's going to slowly drift off into time like Greek Mythology, correct? Take your head out of your ass, it'll help the discussion greatly.
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Lol, Darwin lost his faith because his daughter died - nothing more, nothing less.
Did god tell you this?
lol.
Comments like his are the reason that the average Christian is bashed so often. Granted the militant atheists don't make it easy. They forget that the loudest people tend to be the dumbest. A couple idiots are not an accurate representation of a whole people.
Theists like you are why I haven't joined the "Down with religion bandwagon" :/.
Religion, on an individual and communal level, can be a powerful force of self improvement, self realization, and other positive effects. The issue is, due to its power, it lends itself to being easily manipulated, or distorted for private gain, unless used in conjunction with "Secular rationale".
I know it doesn't have goals or think. Thank you for that. I should have said Operation.
Your analogy sucks.
I'm actually aware that you didn't mean goals, but the funny part is you still think as if it had goals.
How can you apply a statistical trend and then say "THIS IS HOW YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE"? What kind of reasoning is that.
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Name a single atrocious act that an atheist will commit that a religious person would not. Hint you can't.
Yet there are many terrible things that a religious person will do in the name of religion that an atheist has no motivation for.
Eg: inquisition, genital mutilation, suicide bombing.
Religion provides justifications to atrocious acts whilst non-theism does no such thing.
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On September 19 2010 17:29 TOloseGT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:26 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:15 aimaimaim wrote:On September 19 2010 16:45 blitzkrieger wrote:
If Hitler used the Church for anything it was just that, to use them. I'm pretty sure Japanese aren't a master race according to Hitler (or Italians for that matter) yet he enlisted their aid to accomplish his own goals. If Hitler had won I am sure he would have disposed of not only the Church but also Japan when he saw fit.
I mean even if you believe the Catholic Church helped Hitler I don't think anyone believes that Christian values and Nazism have any real similarities. And its in the Christian religion that the Church (organization) can and will become corrupt, it was said be Jesus too.
If you take away religion you are just left with natural selection. And people will abuse that to say who is "fit" or not and be even more selfish. I mean WW2 already had that. Life is a FFA where every action is to gain and everyone are really enemies. There is no justification for anything except to further oneself. Things like abortion are already accepted by many and soon we will have designer babies because "its not a life". They already do selective abortion in China for women which is a huge problem, I read there will be 120million bachelors in China in a few years because they aborted so many female babies, wish I had the source...
I think atheism is the most dangerous thing out there because it removes all restraints and takes away any morals and inserts nothing. Human beings are selfish and evil and taking off the restraints will unleash the monster. You can justify anything with atheism as long as if further's your own goals. Atheists are only accountable to themselves and can easily change any moral or value. We have already seen it with Hitler, Stalin, and Mao among others. Human beings become expendable and their is no value to life (look at abortion). People are already selfish and apathetic but the rise in militant atheism is going to make it even worse.
Most people believe this even though the internet, and gaming are filled with young liberals/atheists for the most part so I'll get like 50 flames for this but I don't care. You can criticize me and the Pope all you want but I should be able to criticize atheism just as well.
wtf are you talking about?? morals? you look for morals in religion? tell me 1 concrete event where atheism is bad and ill give you 10 concrete events why organized religion is bad .. fuck the pope .. tell me, why do christians all over the world needs a pope? Only Catholics follow the Pope. And there are like 2+ billion Catholics. I can give many reasons religion and the abuse of scripture can be bad as well. I can only find ONE reason for doing something good in Atheism (social contract) and thats not even doing good, that is looking for a reward for mutual benefit. Help is only given if it can return some other form of help. I can't find anything good with the Bible. You're basically out for yourself because then you wouldn't get into Heaven. See what I did there?
You can't find anything good in the Bible at all? What about not murdering people? Oh wait that is ok because you are an atheist. So actually you wouldn't find anything because there are no values. Be fruitful and multiply is probably the only thing an atheist can agree with.
If you are being a Christian simply for a reward you don't get it, thats how atheists think though. You are supposed to love God and man and your faith gets you there. If you were trying to go to heaven for rewards only then you basically forfeit your ticket. Protestantism is about intentions.
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On September 19 2010 17:42 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:37 hifriend wrote:On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:10 Blix wrote:On September 19 2010 17:01 blitzkrieger wrote:
I hate getting into these arguments because I don't have any sources for anything anymore... but there is no value to human life in atheism at all. Humans are just another animal. If you can profit off the expense of another human thats fine.
Do you realize that this (and one of your previous statements) is actually quite offensive to atheists? Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null). If you want to explain "atheism by definition," how about looking up the definition of atheism rather than bringing up the natural mechanics of evolution. "Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist." An atheist could reject the theory of evolution and still be an atheist. Ok then tell me where you get your morals and why these are to be followed.
I get my morals from my atheist parents, who were taught to them from my atheist grandparents, who were taught to them from my atheist great-grandparents and so on back to the ages of Confucius. We cherish our loved ones and our neighbors because we have compassion and understanding. We don't murder because we have empathy
Need I go on?
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On September 19 2010 17:25 Half wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:23 kammeyer wrote:On September 19 2010 17:15 Half wrote:On September 19 2010 17:11 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +
The Holy Bible may have wars, but they don't have any form of ethnic cleansing due to hair/eye color/religion.
Actually it had several.
Ethnic cleansing? No, no it didn't.
Num 7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.
Num 15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
I'm really not trying to be vindictive against Christians here. Normally in threads where people go around uniformly yelling "ALL RELIGION IS TERRIBAD", I defend the merits of religion. (For instance, thanks to religion, Blitzreig is able to comprehend the value of human life :/) I'm not even asking you refrain from criticizing Atheism. Criticism can only strengthen any system of belief. But if you want to, please don't do so from a base of ignorance kthx. ? Did you decide to copy and paste something from Biblegateway.com or wikipedia? It's not a base of ignorance, it's from a base from going to private school for the past 15 years of my life. There was no form of ethnic cleansing in the Bible, ever. Not even in Sadam and Gomorrah was there ethnic cleansing. You'll have to search harder, Half. because not a single time has the Bible ever done something as historically damaging as what Hitler did to the Jewish culture. Look, are you denying the existence of the quotes? Perhaps you would want to argue the context they were given? Because those quotes, taken in context, are by definition, an Ethnic cleansing. Or are you saying that its not an Ethnic cleasing just because they didn't quite get as many people as the Nazis? Show nested quote +it's from a base from going to private school for the past 15 years of my life. So in other words, your ethos is a high school education in theology in a religious private school. You'll have to forgive me for not being impressed.
Negative, University education in theology. It's not an ethnic cleansing because it goes no where near the same degree of what Hitler did. You can try to twist it how you please, it's no where near the same. It's a boring argument, Half. It really is, can you try something else to compare Hitler to the Bible? because you're far off that it's putting me to sleep at 3:46am.
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On September 19 2010 17:34 TOloseGT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:30 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:25 hifriend wrote:On September 19 2010 17:09 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 16:58 SaDGoWu wrote:On September 19 2010 16:35 Dgtl wrote:
It's unfortunate that actual intelligent religious people are represented by this guy. Not all religious people are stupid. Is there such a thing as an intelligent religious person? Intelligence is relative. Anyways to the OP, I don't think you cant expect a religious organization or leader for that matter to hold up once scrutinized. I mean how important is research and evidence when there is faith and doctrine. Here is some hope though if you believe a Stanford Binet IQ test is an accurate measure of intelligence; This test clearly shows that despite larger family size and inbreeding, IQ's are going up by 3 points on average per decade. Hopefully that means people will be more self aware and not flock like sheep. I've heard its going down because poor people have more kids and poor people are usually less educated/intelligent. Smart people tend to have less kids and focus on individual pursuits, whether that be business, science, or faith. Secularization is a sure sign of societal advanced technologically, scientifically and philosophically. Seems almost akin to a 14-year old going through puberty. On September 19 2010 17:09 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 16:58 SaDGoWu wrote:On September 19 2010 16:35 Dgtl wrote:
It's unfortunate that actual intelligent religious people are represented by this guy. Not all religious people are stupid. Is there such a thing as an intelligent religious person? Intelligence is relative. Anyways to the OP, I don't think you cant expect a religious organization or leader for that matter to hold up once scrutinized. I mean how important is research and evidence when there is faith and doctrine. Here is some hope though if you believe a Stanford Binet IQ test is an accurate measure of intelligence; This test clearly shows that despite larger family size and inbreeding, IQ's are going up by 3 points on average per decade. Hopefully that means people will be more self aware and not flock like sheep. In fact SCIENCE was originally (and still) is based on the belief that there is order in the universe from God. God made laws so we must find them.. Are you being serious? There's not one bit of truth to this statement what so ever. Science has historically been held back and restrained for centuries due to various religions. Religion has been one huge obstacle for sciencific progress. Copernicus might have been a religious man, but his books were still being judged as "foolish and absurd in philosophy." All thanks to the bible. In any case you're looking a lot more aggressive about your beliefs than any atheist in this thread. People first looked for laws because they believe in order from God. Since God made the universe there had to be undiscovered laws of how thinks work. The empirical science we have today is a direct result of the belief in God. Science believes, without knowing, there are laws and order to be discovered. Again wish I had sources... Law and order predates the "discovery" of God.
Natural Laws, as in nature. Christians believe God made law for humans.
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EPT
