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dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
If those Christians try to kill and conquer non believers to spread fear because they want to conquer the world for Christianity then yes, they are religious terrorists. like the founding fathers of the USA when they took land from the native Americans in the glorious name of the Lord? | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On September 01 2010 10:27 SweetNJoshSauce wrote: If those Christians try to kill and conquer non believers to spread fear because they want to conquer the world for Christianity then yes, they are religious terrorists. You don't quite understand the basis of Islamic terrorism, do you? On September 01 2010 10:05 TanGeng wrote: They might hate US if we tried to force those freedoms on them. Maybe that's bringing "democracy" to rest of the world. But they mostly hate US for the "to the rest of the world" part rather than for the "'democracy'" part. This here is it. That's their problem with US. The rest of the conquer the world to spread religion portion is largely defunct. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10180 Posts
On August 31 2010 23:18 Slago wrote: uuugh this is excactly the ignorance I'm talking about you are again blaming every muslim for 9/11, you do realize that hating america isn't part of their religion you ignorant fuck, you are a complete idiot to believe that the mosque is being built to spite the 9/11 victims. You really beleive there are a ton of terrorists living in america? No you dumbass stop watching 24 and come back to reality please, and there you go AGAIN with the MUSLIMS, they were also men does that mean that building a YMCA near ground zero is offensive. you are obviously too idiotic to read my whole post or you would've read the part about the catholic priests but I guess your too dumb and ignrant and caught up in your fanatasy white supremist world to realize. but just so you hopefully read it no one blames all catholics for raping little boys, WHY THE FUCK BLAME ALL MUSLIMS FOR TERRORIST ATTACKS. Muslim religion does not support the attacks you dumb fuck User was warned for this post Only a warning? lol I actually did read your whole post and left out the part about the YMCA's and the catholic priests and the KKK as a courtesy to you because those arguments are so retarded that there's really no way to respond to them other than informing you how retarded they are. Maybe English isn't your first language or maybe your reading comprehension just sucks but maybe you should re-read my post. The only one ranting about "MUSLIMS" is you. My post was directed at the DEVELOPERS of the Groud zero mosque. The ultimate irony here is that you are the ignorant one that is stereotyping all muslims. I am asking about their intentions and you are the one with the fingers in your ear saying "LALALALA ALL MUSLIMS ARE PEACEFUL." That's a stereotype you fool. This is what talking to you is like: Me: Sure they have a right to build there, but are they acting in bad faith? You: BAD FAITH? SO NOW ISLAM IS A BAD FAITH? I GUESS CHRISTIANITY IS A GOOD FAITH HUH HOW ABOUT THE CATHOLIC PRIESTS THAT RAPE BOYS YOU IGNORANT TOOL /facepalm | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
Some people are merely claiming that the Islamic belief system is probably the root of the decisions that some people made, the decisions to commit atrocities against non-Muslims. That's totally different and to most non-religious people, makes complete sense. They aren't bashing Muslims, most Muslims deserve just as much respect and consideration as any other rational human being; they are criticizing Islam for being an intolerant, middle-aged belief system founded in non-rational faith. And it's not like they are singling Islam out, every religion is like that. It's just easy to criticize Islam because of recent events. | ||
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SweetNJoshSauce
United States468 Posts
On September 01 2010 10:32 dybydx wrote: like the founding fathers of the USA when they took land from the native Americans in the glorious name of the Lord? Well that was an American motivation more than religious one but yes, that's a good point. Doesn't really prove anything though because it happened way before we were all born. I cant be held accountable because of our nations past decisions. I wasn't there. | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On September 01 2010 11:03 Meta wrote: Holy crap Slago's rage was fun to read. People aren't blaming all Muslims for the acts of a few, that's foolish. Literally nobody is doing that. No person should be blamed for the acts of other people. Some people are merely claiming that the Islamic belief system is probably the root of the decisions that some people made, the decisions to commit atrocities against non-Muslims. That's totally different and to most non-religious people, makes complete sense. They aren't bashing Muslims, most Muslims deserve just as much respect and consideration as any other rational human being; they are criticizing Islam for being an intolerant, middle-aged belief system founded in non-rational faith. And it's not like they are singling Islam out, every religion is like that. It's just easy to criticize Islam because of recent events. I soooo wanted to replace every instance of islam with christianity in this post :p Than I saw that you made the point in the last line and was like darn! @Blackjack, if the developers told you their intentions would you believe them? | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On September 01 2010 10:16 TanGeng wrote: No evidence that it's the driving force behind terrorism. Some Evangelical Christians also believe everyone should be Christians. Do we think of them as terrorists? You know those angry Muslims rioted over critiques of Mohammad a while back. They claimed that it violated Muslim sensitivities. Now, this construction of a community center is violating 9/11 sensitivities. The world could use a lot more people with thicker skin and less sensitivity. But if it's really offensive, feel free to demonstrate in front of the construction site every single day. Just don't riot and destroy any property or harm any people. This is it. Religion is just the vehicle that recruits and organizes these things. It's been used for similar purposes by nearly every other society on the planet, sometimes peacefully and other times violently. The mistake is to blame religion for the motivation, which is entirely political and secular. Like TanGeng said before, it's not about beliefs. It's about American foreign policy, particularly with regards to Israel and Saudi Arabia, but also with the rest of the region. The people's lives that are being radically changed are theirs, not ours. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10180 Posts
On September 01 2010 19:22 Archerofaiur wrote: @Blackjack, if the developers told you their intentions would you believe them? /shrug. I don't know anything about them and I don't care enough to research to try to find out who they are. I'm not offended at all by the mosque and I couldn't care less if they build it there. If my parents died in the WTC then I would want to know if someone is trying to spit on their grave. Someone with poor reading comprehension like that guy that quoted me earlier might take that to mean I hate all muslims and I think all muslims are responsible for 9/11. But I guess we can't all read past a 5th grade level  | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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Alou
United States3748 Posts
Links for parts 2-4 in video and related videos box on Youtube. Full interview is a bit over 30 minutes, but definitely worth it. Thoughts? I was really interested in hearing him speak. Up until this point I had only heard him in like 1 other video so I didn't really know about him from him directly. I pretty much agree with everything he said. He does avoid some questions rather blatantly, but I like how he carried himself. As for the subject matter and what he said, I completely agree about how certain politicians are using this issue for their own gain. If anything, it's an issue for New York. It shouldn't involve so many national figures. I also loved the part of the radicals vs moderates in part 2. When he was arguing about why they can't move because radicals would still see it as an attack on Muslims and how that could affect security was such an interesting argument that I'd never thought of in depth. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is a really well spoken dude. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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Deyster
Jordan579 Posts
On September 01 2010 01:47 Offhand wrote: Are the Qu'ranists rejecting all hadiths or just the Sunni ones? Either way, good luck getting any religion to discard a set of holy works. I know the Qu'ran was written/compiled some 200 years after Mohamed, but I don't know if it's as distorted and politicized as original versions of the bible. Wrong. The Qur'an was written down while prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was alive. Add to that the Qur'an was also memorized by Muslims since the days of prophet Muhammad as we use the Qur'an in our daily prayers. So this pretty much protected the Qur'an from being modified to fit a certain group's agenda. Honestly, I'd just throw this here again so people get to understand why religion is being misused. Religion is used for recruitment cause it's the cheapest, instead of trying to bribe people into following you with money and physical stuff, you just offer them heaven in afterlife and make them believe they will go to heaven in their afterlife. It costs you nothing and surprisingly it works wonders. | ||
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caewil
Singapore26 Posts
As for the Qur'an, it was written down within one man's lifetime and by the same author. It is extremely faithful to the original version, given that the language it was written in was still alive outside the clergy (unlike latin) and the book did not have to be re-translated repeatedly. The shortness of the Qur'an compared to the bible also helps with maintaining accuracy. Devout muslims sometimes memorize the whole thing. To make up for all this, the Qur'an is incredibly dry and eminently unquotable. Muhammad may have been a great theologian and religious teacher but an engaging writer he was not. Interesting battles, love stories and all the stuff that makes the bible dramatic aren't there. | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
On September 10 2010 14:25 Deyster wrote: Wrong. The Qur'an was written down while prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was alive. Add to that the Qur'an was also memorized by Muslims since the days of prophet Muhammad as we use the Qur'an in our daily prayers. So this pretty much protected the Qur'an from being modified to fit a certain group's agenda. This still doesn't prevent the book from being a collection of political points from the time it was written. That's how we get most of our nonsensical sounding religious functions. For example, it's against Kosher law to eat pork. The stated reason being that pigs are unclean animals which is pretty much a double standard when you consider the era it was written down predates most soap use. The reality is that it takes an enormous amount of water to raise a pig, this doesn't work well with a group of desert peoples. | ||
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mikado
Australia407 Posts
On September 10 2010 22:39 caewil wrote: All of the muslims I've met, and there are a lot, have been generally nice people. As for the Qur'an, it was written down within one man's lifetime and by the same author. It is extremely faithful to the original version, given that the language it was written in was still alive outside the clergy (unlike latin) and the book did not have to be re-translated repeatedly. The shortness of the Qur'an compared to the bible also helps with maintaining accuracy. Devout muslims sometimes memorize the whole thing. To make up for all this, the Qur'an is incredibly dry and eminently unquotable. Muhammad may have been a great theologian and religious teacher but an engaging writer he was not. Interesting battles, love stories and all the stuff that makes the bible dramatic aren't there. I'm sorry but you just haven't read the Qur'an then. It's employs a poetic narrative type that is, in fact, very engaging. That being said, it might be a bit hard to get the right feel for the book with direct translations to English. It really feels like bible with a less vengeful and aggressive but more demanding god, with less violence in stories (bible stories are present in the Qur'an as well). Good (and the same) story overall as Judaism and Christianity. I just think that the authorship should be given the credit it deserves. On September 10 2010 22:51 Offhand wrote: This still doesn't prevent the book from being a collection of political points from the time it was written. That's how we get most of our nonsensical sounding religious functions. For example, it's against Kosher law to eat pork. The stated reason being that pigs are unclean animals which is pretty much a double standard when you consider the era it was written down predates most soap use. The reality is that it takes an enormous amount of water to raise a pig, this doesn't work well with a group of desert peoples. You have the wrong perspective here. It's the interpretations of the book that people capitalize on to exert control over masses, not the political ideologies present in the book. The text itself is very transparent in nature, partly due to the language it employs as well as the narrative style. I don't see how Kosher topic is a political one, but surely anyone with half a brain can see that some of the demands of these books are tailored to the needs of the people at that time. | ||
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Armut
Turkey141 Posts
On September 10 2010 22:51 Offhand wrote: This still doesn't prevent the book from being a collection of political points from the time it was written. That's how we get most of our nonsensical sounding religious functions. For example, it's against Kosher law to eat pork. The stated reason being that pigs are unclean animals which is pretty much a double standard when you consider the era it was written down predates most soap use. The reality is that it takes an enormous amount of water to raise a pig, this doesn't work well with a group of desert peoples. We dont eat pork, because Allah advised us not to. We dont drink alcohol simply because Allah advised not to (you can still do these things and be a muslim, these are sins, not fundemantel rules of "faith" it just makes you little less ideal muslim described in Quran) We are not praying 5 times a day, because it is good for our bones (the movement I am referring) but we are doing it because the prophet showed us the way, and Allah ordered it in Quran. The religious practices are done because the Gods wants so. If we accept the existence of God, and his nature and adjectives described in QUran and in other books, theres no need for another reason. Because the creator of everthing is not obliged to show creatures any reason for any order of him, why? because he is the God. It is the same principle for not allowing Adam to eat that only fruit on the tree. No because the fruid was bad for him but in the sake of testing his obedeince. Just wanted to clear out the confusion about Quranic practice and the reasons behind it. | ||
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caewil
Singapore26 Posts
That doesn't make it a collection of political points though. Unlike the Jewish laws, which were merely a statement and justification of the unwritten laws already practiced by the community, the Qur'anic laws were not in effect prior to the spread of Islam. Which was entirely Muhammad's point as he wanted to impose a new order on the Middle Eastern societies of his time. EDIT: Well, I am comparing the Qur'an to the King James Version. If we compare it to the average bible, it comes off (in terms of writing) about as well and is MUCH better than the NIV and other modern translations. Possibly the english translation doesn't reflect the poetic nature well, I should stop trying to read it as prose. | ||
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mikado
Australia407 Posts
On September 10 2010 23:16 Armut wrote: We dont eat pork, because Allah advised us not to. We dont drink alcohol simply because Allah advised not to (you can still do these things and be a muslim, these are sins, not fundemantel rules of "faith" it just makes you little less ideal muslim described in Quran) We are not praying 5 times a day, because it is good for our bones (the movement I am referring) but we are doing it because the prophet showed us the way, and Allah ordered it in Quran. The religious practices are done because the Gods wants so. If we accept the existence of God, and his nature and adjectives described in QUran and in other books, theres no need for another reason. Because the creator of everthing is not obliged to show creatures any reason for any order of him, why? because he is the God. It is the same principle for not allowing Adam to eat that only fruit on the tree. No because the fruid was bad for him but in the sake of testing his obedeince. Just wanted to clear out the confusion about Quranic practice and the reasons behind it. See this is what I meant by 'interpretations of the book' in the above post. This is specifically what's wrong with religion in general and is the reason why terrorism is possible. You have to be able to read and see that these rules are there for specific reasons, not because Allah wants a specific thing from you (except for maybe spiritual solitude and goodness towards others). To point out specifically; You shall not eat pork because it takes a lot of water to raise pigs, they are dirty animals and people have very low hygiene standards at the time. You don't drink because it's likely you'll become destructive, offensive or just plain addicted; causing you to lead a dysfunctional and inefficient life. You pray 5 times a day, so you thank Allah for what he's given you in your life (that's even what's said in the prayers read 5 times a day), that you'll be good to others and you'll share your food, etc. At each prayer, you basically remind yourself of your core values. It's also an opportunity to get together with friends, bring people together and strengthen community ties. It's when people say things like ' We do it because Allah commanded us so' that you enter the dangerous territory. This takes reason out the window, which Allah certainly wanted you to have. In fact you say 'we don't need a reason, Allah doesn't has to provide us with one, because he's Allah'. That, I'd say, is the mark of an uneducated point of view/mind. If anything, Qur'an diligently states the importance of having an open and inquiring mind, asking the questions 'how' and 'why' and having learning as the primary goal of life. | ||
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mamelouk
France135 Posts
On September 10 2010 23:33 mikado wrote: See this is what I meant by 'interpretations of the book' in the above post. This is specifically what's wrong with religion in general and is the reason why terrorism is possible. You have to be able to read and see that these rules are there for specific reasons, not because Allah wants a specific thing from you (except for maybe spiritual solitude and goodness towards others). To point out specifically; You shall not eat pork because it takes a lot of water to raise pigs, they are dirty animals and people have very low hygiene standards at the time. You don't drink because it's likely you'll become destructive, offensive or just plain addicted; causing you to lead a dysfunctional and inefficient life. You pray 5 times a day, so you thank Allah for what he's given you in your life (that's even what's said in the prayers read 5 times a day), that you'll be good to others and you'll share your food, etc. At each prayer, you basically remind yourself of your core values. It's also an opportunity to get together with friends, bring people together and strengthen community ties. It's when people say things like ' We do it because Allah commanded us so' that you enter the dangerous territory. This takes reason out the window, which Allah certainly wanted you to have. In fact you say 'we don't need a reason, Allah doesn't has to provide us with one, because he's Allah'. That, I'd say, is the mark of an educated point of view/mind. If anything, Qur'an diligently states the importance of having an open and inquiring mind, asking the questions 'how' and 'why' and having learning as the primary goal of life. Looks to me you're the one interpreting things. No where in the quran or islam, these reasons are invoked. Sure you should not blindly follow principles, and there is practical reason to each rules. But the real reason you're following them is because to believe in god and trust him You don't follow your country laws because you understand each and every one of them, but because you don't want to be an outlaw, and believe in democracy and stuff | ||
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caewil
Singapore26 Posts
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