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On September 11 2010 02:18 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:05 Armut wrote:On September 11 2010 01:39 Offhand wrote:On September 10 2010 23:16 Armut wrote:On September 10 2010 22:51 Offhand wrote:On September 10 2010 14:25 Deyster wrote:On September 01 2010 01:47 Offhand wrote:
Are the Qu'ranists rejecting all hadiths or just the Sunni ones? Either way, good luck getting any religion to discard a set of holy works. I know the Qu'ran was written/compiled some 200 years after Mohamed, but I don't know if it's as distorted and politicized as original versions of the bible. Wrong. The Qur'an was written down while prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was alive. Add to that the Qur'an was also memorized by Muslims since the days of prophet Muhammad as we use the Qur'an in our daily prayers. So this pretty much protected the Qur'an from being modified to fit a certain group's agenda. This still doesn't prevent the book from being a collection of political points from the time it was written. That's how we get most of our nonsensical sounding religious functions. For example, it's against Kosher law to eat pork. The stated reason being that pigs are unclean animals which is pretty much a double standard when you consider the era it was written down predates most soap use. The reality is that it takes an enormous amount of water to raise a pig, this doesn't work well with a group of desert peoples. We dont eat pork, because Allah advised us not to. We dont drink alcohol simply because Allah advised not to (you can still do these things and be a muslim, these are sins, not fundemantel rules of "faith" it just makes you little less ideal muslim described in Quran) We are not praying 5 times a day, because it is good for our bones (the movement I am referring) but we are doing it because the prophet showed us the way, and Allah ordered it in Quran. The religious practices are done because the Gods wants so. If we accept the existence of God, and his nature and adjectives described in QUran and in other books, theres no need for another reason. Because the creator of everthing is not obliged to show creatures any reason for any order of him, why? because he is the God. It is the same principle for not allowing Adam to eat that only fruit on the tree. No because the fruid was bad for him but in the sake of testing his obedeince. Just wanted to clear out the confusion about Quranic practice and the reasons behind it. Your belief is that these things are god's will. You understand that many of these things are instructions for living a better life, a better life that includes adherence to a certain religion. "Because God wills it" is not a justification for morals or actions. There is always an underlying reason behind them. There isn't any moral ground for not eating pork compared to other meats, the reason is simply an economic holdover from a different time. You could fairly easily construct arguments as to why the consumption of alcohol is bad (hindering presence of mind) or why you should pray 5 times a day (reaffirming your own beliefs/allegiances). The Qur'an was written by men, who believed it was a good idea to include every instruction for how to live the best life possible (at least that's what they believed). Should the same people living in another region of the world attempt to write the same book, you might find several customs and traditions different. This makes sense when viewed historically, as living in a desert in 500 AD, you wouldn't be able to find many people to disagree with your "pork is bad" sentiment. You are pretty sure about what you write altough they are base on your assumption. I am not goint to argue about what you speculate since you cannot prove anything, and I dont have to prove anything about my belaif too. Lets continue our lives where you belaive Quran is man made, and I belaive not. Surely any being that can call itself God must have a reason for it's actions, God does not decree such things for shits and giggles. If so, then what is the justification for not eating pork? Have you considered that God may only have given that advice to Muhammad and his immediate followers of the time? Have you considered that some laws weren't meant to be eternal? Even under your own belief system, these rules do not make sense. + Show Spoiler +God does not exist, religion is an ancient bonding technique to increase the strength of a group via numbers. There is no debate as to whether the Qur'an is man made or not, as "God" does not write things down. The only issue is whether or not you believe rules made for an entirely different time and culture could possibly apply to modern society.
Modern society is man made too. Therefore all my points are still valid based on my belaifs. Those are your ideas and since I belaive there is a God anypoit point you made cannot falsify what I said based on the existence of God.
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On September 11 2010 02:31 ArvickHero wrote:
I don't even know how people can say God doesn't exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid.
I don't even know how people can say God does exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid.
See how dumb this argument is?
The argument is arrogant and stupid, not the sides people choose to be on. Have your beliefs and let others' have theirs.
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10387 Posts
On September 11 2010 02:35 Alou wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:31 ArvickHero wrote:
I don't even know how people can say God doesn't exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid. I don't even know how people can say God does exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid. See how dumb this argument is? The argument is arrogant and stupid, not the sides people choose to be on. Have your beliefs and let others' have theirs.
That's why I'm an agnostic dude. I don't know if there is one.. all I know its pretty much to impossible to prove there isn't a god unless you died and came back to life. Proving there is a god would be almost as impossible, except you have the added option of having God manifest himself unto the world or perform some miracle.
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On September 11 2010 02:32 Armut wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:18 Offhand wrote:On September 11 2010 02:05 Armut wrote:On September 11 2010 01:39 Offhand wrote:On September 10 2010 23:16 Armut wrote:On September 10 2010 22:51 Offhand wrote:On September 10 2010 14:25 Deyster wrote:On September 01 2010 01:47 Offhand wrote:
Are the Qu'ranists rejecting all hadiths or just the Sunni ones? Either way, good luck getting any religion to discard a set of holy works. I know the Qu'ran was written/compiled some 200 years after Mohamed, but I don't know if it's as distorted and politicized as original versions of the bible. Wrong. The Qur'an was written down while prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was alive. Add to that the Qur'an was also memorized by Muslims since the days of prophet Muhammad as we use the Qur'an in our daily prayers. So this pretty much protected the Qur'an from being modified to fit a certain group's agenda. This still doesn't prevent the book from being a collection of political points from the time it was written. That's how we get most of our nonsensical sounding religious functions. For example, it's against Kosher law to eat pork. The stated reason being that pigs are unclean animals which is pretty much a double standard when you consider the era it was written down predates most soap use. The reality is that it takes an enormous amount of water to raise a pig, this doesn't work well with a group of desert peoples. We dont eat pork, because Allah advised us not to. We dont drink alcohol simply because Allah advised not to (you can still do these things and be a muslim, these are sins, not fundemantel rules of "faith" it just makes you little less ideal muslim described in Quran) We are not praying 5 times a day, because it is good for our bones (the movement I am referring) but we are doing it because the prophet showed us the way, and Allah ordered it in Quran. The religious practices are done because the Gods wants so. If we accept the existence of God, and his nature and adjectives described in QUran and in other books, theres no need for another reason. Because the creator of everthing is not obliged to show creatures any reason for any order of him, why? because he is the God. It is the same principle for not allowing Adam to eat that only fruit on the tree. No because the fruid was bad for him but in the sake of testing his obedeince. Just wanted to clear out the confusion about Quranic practice and the reasons behind it. Your belief is that these things are god's will. You understand that many of these things are instructions for living a better life, a better life that includes adherence to a certain religion. "Because God wills it" is not a justification for morals or actions. There is always an underlying reason behind them. There isn't any moral ground for not eating pork compared to other meats, the reason is simply an economic holdover from a different time. You could fairly easily construct arguments as to why the consumption of alcohol is bad (hindering presence of mind) or why you should pray 5 times a day (reaffirming your own beliefs/allegiances). The Qur'an was written by men, who believed it was a good idea to include every instruction for how to live the best life possible (at least that's what they believed). Should the same people living in another region of the world attempt to write the same book, you might find several customs and traditions different. This makes sense when viewed historically, as living in a desert in 500 AD, you wouldn't be able to find many people to disagree with your "pork is bad" sentiment. You are pretty sure about what you write altough they are base on your assumption. I am not goint to argue about what you speculate since you cannot prove anything, and I dont have to prove anything about my belaif too. Lets continue our lives where you belaive Quran is man made, and I belaive not. Surely any being that can call itself God must have a reason for it's actions, God does not decree such things for shits and giggles. If so, then what is the justification for not eating pork? Have you considered that God may only have given that advice to Muhammad and his immediate followers of the time? Have you considered that some laws weren't meant to be eternal? Even under your own belief system, these rules do not make sense. + Show Spoiler +God does not exist, religion is an ancient bonding technique to increase the strength of a group via numbers. There is no debate as to whether the Qur'an is man made or not, as "God" does not write things down. The only issue is whether or not you believe rules made for an entirely different time and culture could possibly apply to modern society. Modern society is man made too. Therefore all my points are still valid based on my belaifs. Those are your ideas and since I belaive there is a God anypoit point you made cannot falsify what I said based on the existence of God.
You didn't answer the question.
On September 11 2010 02:31 ArvickHero wrote:
I don't even know how people can say God doesn't exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid.
There is zero proof of god's existence. A poorly defined religious god even more so.
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On September 11 2010 02:41 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:32 Armut wrote:On September 11 2010 02:18 Offhand wrote:On September 11 2010 02:05 Armut wrote:On September 11 2010 01:39 Offhand wrote:On September 10 2010 23:16 Armut wrote:On September 10 2010 22:51 Offhand wrote:On September 10 2010 14:25 Deyster wrote:On September 01 2010 01:47 Offhand wrote:
Are the Qu'ranists rejecting all hadiths or just the Sunni ones? Either way, good luck getting any religion to discard a set of holy works. I know the Qu'ran was written/compiled some 200 years after Mohamed, but I don't know if it's as distorted and politicized as original versions of the bible. Wrong. The Qur'an was written down while prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was alive. Add to that the Qur'an was also memorized by Muslims since the days of prophet Muhammad as we use the Qur'an in our daily prayers. So this pretty much protected the Qur'an from being modified to fit a certain group's agenda. This still doesn't prevent the book from being a collection of political points from the time it was written. That's how we get most of our nonsensical sounding religious functions. For example, it's against Kosher law to eat pork. The stated reason being that pigs are unclean animals which is pretty much a double standard when you consider the era it was written down predates most soap use. The reality is that it takes an enormous amount of water to raise a pig, this doesn't work well with a group of desert peoples. We dont eat pork, because Allah advised us not to. We dont drink alcohol simply because Allah advised not to (you can still do these things and be a muslim, these are sins, not fundemantel rules of "faith" it just makes you little less ideal muslim described in Quran) We are not praying 5 times a day, because it is good for our bones (the movement I am referring) but we are doing it because the prophet showed us the way, and Allah ordered it in Quran. The religious practices are done because the Gods wants so. If we accept the existence of God, and his nature and adjectives described in QUran and in other books, theres no need for another reason. Because the creator of everthing is not obliged to show creatures any reason for any order of him, why? because he is the God. It is the same principle for not allowing Adam to eat that only fruit on the tree. No because the fruid was bad for him but in the sake of testing his obedeince. Just wanted to clear out the confusion about Quranic practice and the reasons behind it. Your belief is that these things are god's will. You understand that many of these things are instructions for living a better life, a better life that includes adherence to a certain religion. "Because God wills it" is not a justification for morals or actions. There is always an underlying reason behind them. There isn't any moral ground for not eating pork compared to other meats, the reason is simply an economic holdover from a different time. You could fairly easily construct arguments as to why the consumption of alcohol is bad (hindering presence of mind) or why you should pray 5 times a day (reaffirming your own beliefs/allegiances). The Qur'an was written by men, who believed it was a good idea to include every instruction for how to live the best life possible (at least that's what they believed). Should the same people living in another region of the world attempt to write the same book, you might find several customs and traditions different. This makes sense when viewed historically, as living in a desert in 500 AD, you wouldn't be able to find many people to disagree with your "pork is bad" sentiment. You are pretty sure about what you write altough they are base on your assumption. I am not goint to argue about what you speculate since you cannot prove anything, and I dont have to prove anything about my belaif too. Lets continue our lives where you belaive Quran is man made, and I belaive not. Surely any being that can call itself God must have a reason for it's actions, God does not decree such things for shits and giggles. If so, then what is the justification for not eating pork? Have you considered that God may only have given that advice to Muhammad and his immediate followers of the time? Have you considered that some laws weren't meant to be eternal? Even under your own belief system, these rules do not make sense. + Show Spoiler +God does not exist, religion is an ancient bonding technique to increase the strength of a group via numbers. There is no debate as to whether the Qur'an is man made or not, as "God" does not write things down. The only issue is whether or not you believe rules made for an entirely different time and culture could possibly apply to modern society. Modern society is man made too. Therefore all my points are still valid based on my belaifs. Those are your ideas and since I belaive there is a God anypoit point you made cannot falsify what I said based on the existence of God. You didn't answer the question. Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:31 ArvickHero wrote:
I don't even know how people can say God doesn't exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid. There is zero proof of god's existence. A poorly defined religious god even more so.
Have you considered that God may only have given that advice to Muhammad and his immediate followers of the time?
Is this your question? I did not answer it because it told me you have no idea about Quran or Islam so I chose not to continue arguing with someone who has no knowledge about what he is talking about. You continue to speculate and consider what ever you want (because it is like what if god creates a rock he cant even carry etc type question) the question is so simple so obvious so childish I did not find it worthy of response. Read Quran, there is your answer for that question.
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On September 11 2010 02:48 Armut wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:41 Offhand wrote:On September 11 2010 02:32 Armut wrote:On September 11 2010 02:18 Offhand wrote:On September 11 2010 02:05 Armut wrote:On September 11 2010 01:39 Offhand wrote:On September 10 2010 23:16 Armut wrote:On September 10 2010 22:51 Offhand wrote:On September 10 2010 14:25 Deyster wrote:On September 01 2010 01:47 Offhand wrote:
Are the Qu'ranists rejecting all hadiths or just the Sunni ones? Either way, good luck getting any religion to discard a set of holy works. I know the Qu'ran was written/compiled some 200 years after Mohamed, but I don't know if it's as distorted and politicized as original versions of the bible. Wrong. The Qur'an was written down while prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was alive. Add to that the Qur'an was also memorized by Muslims since the days of prophet Muhammad as we use the Qur'an in our daily prayers. So this pretty much protected the Qur'an from being modified to fit a certain group's agenda. This still doesn't prevent the book from being a collection of political points from the time it was written. That's how we get most of our nonsensical sounding religious functions. For example, it's against Kosher law to eat pork. The stated reason being that pigs are unclean animals which is pretty much a double standard when you consider the era it was written down predates most soap use. The reality is that it takes an enormous amount of water to raise a pig, this doesn't work well with a group of desert peoples. We dont eat pork, because Allah advised us not to. We dont drink alcohol simply because Allah advised not to (you can still do these things and be a muslim, these are sins, not fundemantel rules of "faith" it just makes you little less ideal muslim described in Quran) We are not praying 5 times a day, because it is good for our bones (the movement I am referring) but we are doing it because the prophet showed us the way, and Allah ordered it in Quran. The religious practices are done because the Gods wants so. If we accept the existence of God, and his nature and adjectives described in QUran and in other books, theres no need for another reason. Because the creator of everthing is not obliged to show creatures any reason for any order of him, why? because he is the God. It is the same principle for not allowing Adam to eat that only fruit on the tree. No because the fruid was bad for him but in the sake of testing his obedeince. Just wanted to clear out the confusion about Quranic practice and the reasons behind it. Your belief is that these things are god's will. You understand that many of these things are instructions for living a better life, a better life that includes adherence to a certain religion. "Because God wills it" is not a justification for morals or actions. There is always an underlying reason behind them. There isn't any moral ground for not eating pork compared to other meats, the reason is simply an economic holdover from a different time. You could fairly easily construct arguments as to why the consumption of alcohol is bad (hindering presence of mind) or why you should pray 5 times a day (reaffirming your own beliefs/allegiances). The Qur'an was written by men, who believed it was a good idea to include every instruction for how to live the best life possible (at least that's what they believed). Should the same people living in another region of the world attempt to write the same book, you might find several customs and traditions different. This makes sense when viewed historically, as living in a desert in 500 AD, you wouldn't be able to find many people to disagree with your "pork is bad" sentiment. You are pretty sure about what you write altough they are base on your assumption. I am not goint to argue about what you speculate since you cannot prove anything, and I dont have to prove anything about my belaif too. Lets continue our lives where you belaive Quran is man made, and I belaive not. Surely any being that can call itself God must have a reason for it's actions, God does not decree such things for shits and giggles. If so, then what is the justification for not eating pork? Have you considered that God may only have given that advice to Muhammad and his immediate followers of the time? Have you considered that some laws weren't meant to be eternal? Even under your own belief system, these rules do not make sense. + Show Spoiler +God does not exist, religion is an ancient bonding technique to increase the strength of a group via numbers. There is no debate as to whether the Qur'an is man made or not, as "God" does not write things down. The only issue is whether or not you believe rules made for an entirely different time and culture could possibly apply to modern society. Modern society is man made too. Therefore all my points are still valid based on my belaifs. Those are your ideas and since I belaive there is a God anypoit point you made cannot falsify what I said based on the existence of God. You didn't answer the question. On September 11 2010 02:31 ArvickHero wrote:
I don't even know how people can say God doesn't exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid. There is zero proof of god's existence. A poorly defined religious god even more so. Have you considered that God may only have given that advice to Muhammad and his immediate followers of the time? Is this your question? I did not answer it because it told me you have no idea about Quran or Islam so I chose not to continue arguing with someone who has no knowledge about what he is talking about. You continue to speculate and consider what ever you want (because it is like what if god creates a rock he cant even carry etc type question) the question is so simple so obvious so childish I did not find it worthy of response. Read Quran, there is your answer for that question.
It's one of the questions, definitely a valid one as well. Perhaps God could have more accurately said "Don't eat pork because you can't support a pig farm in the desert. When you invent better irrigation or move to a more temperate climate then it's totally fine though." but that wouldn't have fit well within the scripture.
Otherwise, you acknowledge that you do not understand why God would make such a rule. You admit that you follow something without any knowledge of why.You fail to understand your own God.
Please explain why eating pork is a sin. Explain why pork should not be consumed at all points in human history. An argument from ignorance will get you nowhere.
EDIT: "He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and any (food) over which the name of other than Allah has been invoked. But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
This in no way describe why something shouldn't happen, only that it is forbidden. A religious person would read this and follow it without question. A historian would read it and look at the lifestyles of the people who wrote it.
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On September 11 2010 02:39 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:35 Alou wrote:On September 11 2010 02:31 ArvickHero wrote:
I don't even know how people can say God doesn't exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid. I don't even know how people can say God does exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid. See how dumb this argument is? The argument is arrogant and stupid, not the sides people choose to be on. Have your beliefs and let others' have theirs. That's why I'm an agnostic dude. I don't know if there is one.. all I know its pretty much to impossible to prove there isn't a god unless you died and came back to life. Proving there is a god would be almost as impossible, except you have the added option of having God manifest himself unto the world or perform some miracle.
God could be defined as a consciousness without material existence. Consciousness exists because of matter. You can't have consciousness without matter. Some animals aren't even conscious beings and they got brains. How da fuck is god going to be conscious without any blood going to his brain? I'm conscious in this universe cause I got a brain and blood flowing to it. You are saying There might exist something out there that is conscious with no brain or blood? Even if a computer develops a consciousness, it still would be taking up material existence. Even if the computer turned into light and was a light being, it still be in the universe as a material being.
God doesn't exist because its definition makes it impossible for it to exist. Like someone saying God is a square circle. Well we don't know if a square circle doesn't exist. Yes we do.. a square circle can't exist!
BTW my friend died for 2 minutes and came back to life. I asked him about the afterlife. He said there was nothing.
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On September 11 2010 03:05 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:48 Armut wrote:On September 11 2010 02:41 Offhand wrote:On September 11 2010 02:32 Armut wrote:On September 11 2010 02:18 Offhand wrote:On September 11 2010 02:05 Armut wrote:On September 11 2010 01:39 Offhand wrote:On September 10 2010 23:16 Armut wrote:On September 10 2010 22:51 Offhand wrote:On September 10 2010 14:25 Deyster wrote:
[quote]
Wrong. The Qur'an was written down while prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was alive. Add to that the Qur'an was also memorized by Muslims since the days of prophet Muhammad as we use the Qur'an in our daily prayers. So this pretty much protected the Qur'an from being modified to fit a certain group's agenda.
This still doesn't prevent the book from being a collection of political points from the time it was written. That's how we get most of our nonsensical sounding religious functions. For example, it's against Kosher law to eat pork. The stated reason being that pigs are unclean animals which is pretty much a double standard when you consider the era it was written down predates most soap use. The reality is that it takes an enormous amount of water to raise a pig, this doesn't work well with a group of desert peoples. We dont eat pork, because Allah advised us not to. We dont drink alcohol simply because Allah advised not to (you can still do these things and be a muslim, these are sins, not fundemantel rules of "faith" it just makes you little less ideal muslim described in Quran) We are not praying 5 times a day, because it is good for our bones (the movement I am referring) but we are doing it because the prophet showed us the way, and Allah ordered it in Quran. The religious practices are done because the Gods wants so. If we accept the existence of God, and his nature and adjectives described in QUran and in other books, theres no need for another reason. Because the creator of everthing is not obliged to show creatures any reason for any order of him, why? because he is the God. It is the same principle for not allowing Adam to eat that only fruit on the tree. No because the fruid was bad for him but in the sake of testing his obedeince. Just wanted to clear out the confusion about Quranic practice and the reasons behind it. Your belief is that these things are god's will. You understand that many of these things are instructions for living a better life, a better life that includes adherence to a certain religion. "Because God wills it" is not a justification for morals or actions. There is always an underlying reason behind them. There isn't any moral ground for not eating pork compared to other meats, the reason is simply an economic holdover from a different time. You could fairly easily construct arguments as to why the consumption of alcohol is bad (hindering presence of mind) or why you should pray 5 times a day (reaffirming your own beliefs/allegiances). The Qur'an was written by men, who believed it was a good idea to include every instruction for how to live the best life possible (at least that's what they believed). Should the same people living in another region of the world attempt to write the same book, you might find several customs and traditions different. This makes sense when viewed historically, as living in a desert in 500 AD, you wouldn't be able to find many people to disagree with your "pork is bad" sentiment. You are pretty sure about what you write altough they are base on your assumption. I am not goint to argue about what you speculate since you cannot prove anything, and I dont have to prove anything about my belaif too. Lets continue our lives where you belaive Quran is man made, and I belaive not. Surely any being that can call itself God must have a reason for it's actions, God does not decree such things for shits and giggles. If so, then what is the justification for not eating pork? Have you considered that God may only have given that advice to Muhammad and his immediate followers of the time? Have you considered that some laws weren't meant to be eternal? Even under your own belief system, these rules do not make sense. + Show Spoiler +God does not exist, religion is an ancient bonding technique to increase the strength of a group via numbers. There is no debate as to whether the Qur'an is man made or not, as "God" does not write things down. The only issue is whether or not you believe rules made for an entirely different time and culture could possibly apply to modern society. Modern society is man made too. Therefore all my points are still valid based on my belaifs. Those are your ideas and since I belaive there is a God anypoit point you made cannot falsify what I said based on the existence of God. You didn't answer the question. On September 11 2010 02:31 ArvickHero wrote:
I don't even know how people can say God doesn't exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid. There is zero proof of god's existence. A poorly defined religious god even more so. Have you considered that God may only have given that advice to Muhammad and his immediate followers of the time? Is this your question? I did not answer it because it told me you have no idea about Quran or Islam so I chose not to continue arguing with someone who has no knowledge about what he is talking about. You continue to speculate and consider what ever you want (because it is like what if god creates a rock he cant even carry etc type question) the question is so simple so obvious so childish I did not find it worthy of response. Read Quran, there is your answer for that question. It's one of the questions, definitely a valid one as well. Perhaps God could have more accurately said "Don't eat pork because you can't support a pig farm in the desert. When you invent better irrigation or move to a more temperate climate then it's totally fine though." but that wouldn't have fit well within the scripture. Otherwise, you acknowledge that you do not understand why God would make such a rule. You admit that you follow something without any knowledge of why.You fail to understand your own God. Please explain why eating pork is a sin. Explain why pork should not be consumed at all points in human history. An argument from ignorance will get you nowhere. EDIT: "He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and any (food) over which the name of other than Allah has been invoked. But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." This in no way describe why something shouldn't happen, only that it is forbidden. A religious person would read this and follow it without question. A historian would read it and look at the lifestyles of the people who wrote it.
You dont read do you? God is not a Prime Minister who has to explain everything to the citizens, maybe I am ignorant but you are completaly arrogant even tough you dont think so. Once you understand the concept of God, you can argue untill then you points are childish. I have tons of friends saying those things to me everyday (close friends) and each time I give them the answer just because they cannot underrstand completalu the fact that God's existance or the concept of God (I am not talking about Zeus here..) they keep asking why God did not give this, why god let this, why god forbid this why god did not show himself to us? Once I figured out and belaived that there is a God, and I read Quran and felt it is his words, the rest is meaningless to me. I dont need a rational argument to not to eat port. Can you understand this? You cant. Can you oppose this? Ofcourse that is your right but you are not making a point I describe the way it is in Islam and you describe you own ideas of religion those are not facts or points just plain assumptions and ideas. I dont agree with them and I dont have to, just like you dont have to. If Allah wanted all to be belaivers ofcourse he would've done so since he did not. I accept that fact I understand that. But you still dont understand what I mean.
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Allah doesn't have a reason for no pork, he's just dicking around with you guys.
you don't need a reason not to eat pork because that's your faith telling you how to live etc etc.. but god certainly better have a reason for what he's commanding or else.. just screwing around with you.
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Italy2077 Posts
Are you aware that saying "i need no reason to know why i don't have to eat pork" is basically the same as denying your own self-will? We weren't made to be zergs.
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On September 11 2010 04:07 Gheizen64 wrote:
Are you aware that saying "i need no reason to know why i don't have to eat pork" is basically the same as denying your own self-will? We weren't made to be zergs.
I think his point is that it's acceptable to do something blindly, for no reason other then the belief that it is correct. This accurately describes the problem with most religions.
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Giving up pork is very appealing to me, but is something i simply can't attain.
Everytime i eat pork / ham / bacon i think about cute little piggies and it burns my soul. Yet i can't stop. How can 1 animal, albeit adorable and smarter than half of humanity, be so delicious in so many ways? It's one of life's greatest jokes/tragedies.
Edit: So yeah, more on point, Allah is a better man than i am. Er, God, not man.
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On September 11 2010 06:12 DannyJ wrote:
Giving up pork is very appealing to me, but is something i simply can't attain.
Everytime i eat pork / ham / bacon i think about cute little piggies and it burns my soul. Yet i can't stop. How can 1 animal, albeit adorable and smarter than half of humanity, be so delicious in so many ways? It's one of life's greatest jokes/tragedies.
Edit: So yeah, more on point, Allah is a better man than i am. Er, God, not man.
Wait what? You're a god?
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On September 11 2010 07:30 Zealotdriver wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 06:12 DannyJ wrote:
Giving up pork is very appealing to me, but is something i simply can't attain.
Everytime i eat pork / ham / bacon i think about cute little piggies and it burns my soul. Yet i can't stop. How can 1 animal, albeit adorable and smarter than half of humanity, be so delicious in so many ways? It's one of life's greatest jokes/tragedies.
Edit: So yeah, more on point, Allah is a better man than i am. Er, God, not man. Wait what? You're a god?
/facepalm
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You cant force tolerance down ppls throats.
9/11 was done in the name of Jihad. Theres no denying that.
I think the muslims are being rediculous and only making the situation worse by trying to build a Mosque there.
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On September 11 2010 02:39 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:35 Alou wrote:On September 11 2010 02:31 ArvickHero wrote:
I don't even know how people can say God doesn't exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid. I don't even know how people can say God does exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid. See how dumb this argument is? The argument is arrogant and stupid, not the sides people choose to be on. Have your beliefs and let others' have theirs. That's why I'm an agnostic dude. I don't know if there is one.. all I know its pretty much to impossible to prove there isn't a god unless you died and came back to life. Proving there is a god would be almost as impossible, except you have the added option of having God manifest himself unto the world or perform some miracle.
You can use that line of logic with santa claus, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy, and other magical creatures. I know that I can't disprove their existence and neither can you but you aren't also santa claus agnostic, are you?
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Oh, I now realize that I should be calling myself agnostic.
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United States22883 Posts
On September 11 2010 02:39 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:35 Alou wrote:On September 11 2010 02:31 ArvickHero wrote:
I don't even know how people can say God doesn't exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid. I don't even know how people can say God does exist, there's no way you can prove that, and to say so affirmatively without concrete proof is just arrogant and stupid. See how dumb this argument is? The argument is arrogant and stupid, not the sides people choose to be on. Have your beliefs and let others' have theirs. That's why I'm an agnostic dude. I don't know if there is one.. all I know its pretty much to impossible to prove there isn't a god unless you died and came back to life. Proving there is a god would be almost as impossible, except you have the added option of having God manifest himself unto the world or perform some miracle.
That's not how burden of proof exists.
Please list off the things you can truly disprove. Vampires? Nope. Werewolves? Nope. Girls on the internet? Nope.
There's still not a shred of evidence that any of these exist, thus you shouldn't believe in them unless you have some personal form of evidence, such as faith. Believing in something because it hasn't been disproved is just idiotic.
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On September 11 2010 10:38 Khul Sadukar wrote:
You cant force tolerance down ppls throats.
9/11 was done in the name of Jihad. Theres no denying that.
I think the muslims are being rediculous and only making the situation worse by trying to build a Mosque there.
Yes, you can, that's exactly what happened in the 60's.
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United States22883 Posts
On September 11 2010 10:38 Khul Sadukar wrote:
You cant force tolerance down ppls throats.
9/11 was done in the name of Jihad. Theres no denying that.
I think the muslims are being rediculous and only making the situation worse by trying to build a Mosque there.
I think the gays are being rediculous and only making the situation worse by trying to get into the Stonewall Inn.
I think the blacks are being rediculous and only making the situation worse by trying to sit on the back of the bus.
I think the christians are being rediculous and only making the situation worse by preaching their faith and upsetting the roman gods.
I think you're being ridiculous and only making the situation worse by posting.
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EPT
