EPTIf the parents find out and try to talk to her about it. She might just downplay it and tell them there is nothing to worry about to avoid the situation of having to talk to them about it (what might be her biggest fear at the moment). The result of this is that she is still in the same situation and will no longer trust the OP, meaning he can no longer help.
Friend wants to commit suicide, what to do? - Page 5
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Fen
Australia1848 Posts
If the parents find out and try to talk to her about it. She might just downplay it and tell them there is nothing to worry about to avoid the situation of having to talk to them about it (what might be her biggest fear at the moment). The result of this is that she is still in the same situation and will no longer trust the OP, meaning he can no longer help. | ||
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Probe.
United States877 Posts
On November 14 2009 14:15 Tien wrote: CHIAOTZU WHY? YOU ALREADY COMMITTED SUICIDE VS NAPA!!!!! | ||
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Descent
1244 Posts
Edit: Removed a redundant phrase. | ||
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Fen
Australia1848 Posts
On November 14 2009 18:32 Descent wrote: Exactly. I was only concerned because it seemed to me that you were wholly rejecting the option of going to relatives in your earlier post. I apologize if it's my misunderstanding. I agree that it is indeed a sensitive option, but if it's a viable one, it should still be considered. We both hope that this will end well. Edit: Removed a redundant phrase. Sorry, didnt mean it that way. I think we both agree that its very situational as to whether or not the parents knowing would help. What I meant earlier is that if he goes and tells a doctor or therapist, she wont see it as a betrayal of trust However going behind her back and telling her parents will be much more likely to be seen that way. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
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lavion
Singapore286 Posts
i am sure everyone face difficult circumstances at some point of their life but it is the attitude and outlook that will affect how people react to it | ||
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
Seriously, maybe this kind of person isn't someone you want to have around bringing you down with them. | ||
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IceCube
Croatia1403 Posts
On November 14 2009 14:25 aRod wrote: Get her to a hospital ASAP. She needs to be involuntarily or voluntarily commited. Both of which are legal when someone is considering suicide. Seriously dude. Don't be afraid to help her! You may and will probably save her life if you do this, but if you don't... I know I've been in many many crappy positions in mine life, altho I'm still young but you can't choose what happens in your life. And if there wasn't for my friends I don't know what I would do, honestly. Really really hope you get her addmited or something, anything to help her get over it. She just needs time and she will get better just as it passes away, but she needs her friends to make it happen. Really hopes she makes it thru, becouse after every rain there is sunshine. That and I hope she isn't too deep into depression but as I got from your OP I take it its very nasty and she would actually need professional help. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
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UGC4
Peru532 Posts
On November 14 2009 21:25 D10 wrote: On a side note, if she has deep legal problems, come to Brazil, tons of job, and we dont extradite anyone! oh true, she could just move to another country, a cheap one. help her out with a ticket and enough money for like 4 months and she should be able to make it. sorry if this is the worst piece of advice. but running is better than...u know. | ||
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eNoq
Netherlands502 Posts
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Pandarus
10 Posts
If she is in such huge problems she can start a new life somewhere else. She committed fraud. Maybe she should do the jail time, if that's what is the punishment. Doesn't sound like she will get life in prison. She can come clean this way. Yeah it sucks. Or she can flee Canada like someone suggested. This is really a temporary problem. Things will become different for her in the future. It won't get worse. She may see no way out now, but one can pull through this and be perfectly happy. And professionals are forced to secrecy. She can get mental help and tell them what she did without them betraying her. If they do betray her they would break their oath. Doesn't sound to me like those professionals would get into conflict with their conscience if they don't turn her in. You need to do whatever you need to do to never feel guilty. Yeah, she doesn't sound like the kind of person that makes a good friend. But she needs help more than you need a good friend. So that doesn't matter. No relative should betray their relative for fraud. I probably won't turn anyone in for any crime as long as I know there is no risk of it happening again. Otherwise, what's the point of being friends of family? | ||
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LonelyMargarita
1845 Posts
I believe what she needs is someone she can trust, who actually cares about her and her life, not just about whether she lives or dies. She doesn't need a short-term distraction from her real-life problems; she needs to know that she'll overcome them, and that she has someone to support her the whole time, not just until she checks out. Betraying someone's trust and calling them in should be a last resort. From my experience, psychiatrists and psychiatric wards only really help children and adults with chemically/drug-related depression or short-term, irrational causes of the depression. Something legitimate and long term like massive debt, loss of a spouse/child, etc. should cause someone to be horribly depressed, so they need to know that there truly is a way out of their problem, even if it might take a while. Long term, realistic hope is what she needs. I think making an agreement with her might be a good idea, in a way that keeps her trust of you. If she thinks it was a trap flying her in, she won't trust you. If you just 'thought about it and really wanted her to try something' for you before she goes through with it, she's more likely to be responsive. Perhaps an agreement that she spends so much time with you, or waits X number of months trying to work things out, without getting the law involved. Any advice on the drugs she's on should come from a professional, but only an anonymous one if you talk about suicide. Chemicals don't seem to be the cause of her depression, but they could be making it worse. Getting her some sleep and physically healthy enough to think clearly will make it a lot easier to show her that her life's not over. The WORST thing you can do while talking to her is play devil's advocate. She doesn't need to hear that anything's her fault, even if it is. She doesn't need to hear that others have it worse than her, or you're belittling her problems. She doesn't need you to tell her any of her ideas are stupid, even if they are. She needs someone who understands that she's in a very tough situation, and that she has a friend open to listening to her, discussing and trying different things, and getting through her problems. Assuming acquiring vast wealth was not her absolute only goal in life and only reason for living, in the long run debt isn't going to stop her from getting the things that will really make her happy, be it a spouse, friends, a career, hobby, etc. It may make things difficult, but it will also make the rewards of achieving her goals even better. ... And for what it's worth, 25% of your income is the maximum that creditors can collectively take from someone. In addition, I believe it may vary by state, but if you make payments on a debt every single month for 20 years, the debt is forgiven. They can't put you in jail for debt, so after the initial seizures of property, vehicles, and investment assets, life goes on with at worst 75% what you would have made. Edit: If she did break the law, and it wasn't hundreds of thousands of dollars she 'stole,' she probably won't get much jail time, if any, if they discover it. Trying to hide assets or further break the law through collections and seizures will make any sentence much more harsh as a repeat offender, and will also make her earlier crimes more likely to be noticed. Edit: my advice was based on US laws, but I guess she may not be a US citizen, so take that in mind. Sorry I couldn't read the entire thread as I must leave, but having multiple instances of personal experience with such matters, I thought my experience might help, especially since my advice differs from what most people here suggest who haven't been involved in such matters. | ||
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LonelyMargarita
1845 Posts
On November 14 2009 21:45 Pandarus wrote: And professionals are forced to secrecy. She can get mental help and tell them what she did without them betraying her. If they do betray her they would break their oath. Doesn't sound to me like those professionals would get into conflict with their conscience if they don't turn her in. NO NO NO! This is a common thing people misunderstand, and you need to know its limitations. While they are required to confidentiality in all other situations, if a professional believes a patient is an imminent threat to herself or anyone else, they are legally REQUIRED to have her evaluated to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital. So while they can't betray her in terms of discussing or testifying against her for her crimes, they MUST betray her and have her committed if she is suicidal. Unless she can absolutely hide the fact that she is suicidal, the only professional help she can get is in a psychiatric ward. | ||
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Romance_us
Seychelles1806 Posts
However, as being said suicidal person, it is your own body, your own life, and if you don't feel the need to be here anymore, IT IS YOUR DECISION. Self-sovereignty. And don't try to play the "she'll be much happier later!" card, because none of you have any fucking idea what her situation will be in a year, or five. Assumptions are so grossly related with suicide that it sickens me. Oh, also to those saying "involuntarily commit her". LOL. That's all I can really say to that. As long as you feel you made a difference right? | ||
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Sprite
United States1015 Posts
On November 14 2009 22:46 Romance_us wrote: If you honestly feel as though you need to impose your will upon her, then be with her, convince her of the joys of life, HELP HER solve these problems (if you really care as much as it seems like you do), and I mean possibly helping her out financially, etc. I know personally when I was suicidal, physical help is so much more reassuring than words. ANYBODY can fucking say, "No, don't go for it! It's not worth it!". As if the suicidal person has not already contemplated this. They need exposure to a new, higher level of support and help. However, as being said suicidal person, it is your own body, your own life, and if you don't feel the need to be here anymore, IT IS YOUR DECISION. Self-sovereignty. And don't try to play the "she'll be much happier later!" card, because none of you have any fucking idea what her situation will be in a year, or five. Assumptions are so grossly related with suicide that it sickens me. Oh, also to those saying "involuntarily commit her". LOL. That's all I can really say to that. As long as you feel you made a difference right? Bravo man....Bravo. | ||
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Navane
Netherlands2749 Posts
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09030904.html But really, what romance_us said. If you back up her financial problems with your own hard cash.. That's something far better than words. It might tip her in the right direction, and release a lot of the burden. | ||
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Pandarus
10 Posts
On November 14 2009 22:40 LonelyMargarita wrote: NO NO NO! This is a common thing people misunderstand, and you need to know its limitations. While they are required to confidentiality in all other situations, if a professional believes a patient is an imminent threat to herself or anyone else, they are legally REQUIRED to have her evaluated to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital. Of course. You are misunderstanding. If she tells she has difficulties because she can't fine bankruptcy because then they will discover tax fraud then they won't turn her in. At least, that's how it's supposed to be. Just as your lawyer won't turn you in. This is an entirely different issue. So while they can't betray her in terms of discussing or testifying against her for her crimes, they MUST betray her and have her committed if she is suicidal. How is that betrayal? It's stupid not to seek professional help if you are considering suicide just because then you know they will try to stop you from committing suicide. Especially considering this individual case. We don't have someone here who is physically unable to not be totally unhappy because of brain chemistry or other disabilities. It's not like I proposed luring her into a trap to get her committed, which you can actually debate quite seriously. It's not like there aren't any cases where the person getting 'betrayed' won't be grateful later. Not to mention many attempts at suicide fail. If she totally damages her internal organs with some medicine overdose, then they find her and lock her up for a while she will have to live with that for the rest of her life. And there are more extreme examples. Like people jumping off buildings where a bystander tries to catch and dies while the person jumping is in a wheel chair for the rest his/her life. It's not nice losing everything financially, being in jail, being in a wheelchair and knowing you killed someone who tried to save you. | ||
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ruffe
China40 Posts
2.try to find a professional negotiator to convince her not to do it. | ||
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Prof. Protoss
Germany744 Posts
Here's mine: Do not underestimate the complexity of her bad condition. Eg I don't think it will help to only pay off the debt - which does not mean it won't help at all. Depression can't be solved over night. It takes a lot of time and patience to overcome it. Here's a list of things that MAY help: - gather information go to the library, search the internet, talk to specialists (you don't have to tell her), maybe friends / family who have experienced similar things the more you'll know the more you and your friend will see that there is a solution. - give her the feeling you're there for her (well not just give her the feeling...be there for her) be patient with her. If she doesn't want to talk, if she doesn't want to do anything accept that, it's part of the illness. Still try to activate her to do anything, to go outside to confront the world, maybe even do sports. - she probably won't want to get help by her friends and family because she notices that you get affected by her illness as well. She'll feel even more guilty than she already does. Try to avoid to give her that feeling. Well, don't tread her like a puppet made of porcelaine either. It's best to find a good compromise between the two. That's all I can think of right now. Hope it helps you and you're friend. | ||
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