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On March 12 2010 23:33 FireBlast! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 05:20 kidd wrote:
Also Aresenal is kind of turning into a Man U C. Ronaldo team from two years ago in that Arshavin is their go to player who sets up every goal or just scores himself. Looking at the game where Bendtner had a hat trick, Arshavin did pretty much all the work in every goal he had. Aresenal fans should hope that Arshavin also doesn't follow in C. Ronaldo's footsteps and try to go to Real or Barcelona. Hmm Im not so sure. Little Arshie is an absolutely quality player but to say we rely on him for every goal is a huge overestimation. Sure he was IMMENSE against Porto but he's been hit and miss on more than a few occasions this season, against Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool he was invisible. (Also incidentally when we actually did depend on him to bag the goals as the lone striker when we had no other options, he scored the fewest goals.) Cesc and Van Persie have often been our "go-to players" but this season it's been a real team effort with extensive injuries throughout the team. Every player especially in midfield have stepped it up a notch (Diaby, Song, Rosicky) and we've missed one of if not all of the big three star players (RVP, Theo, Cesc) for so many games, Wenger's got plenty of rotation to do next season if everyones fit. Also I think Vermaelen is one of the players of the season, this guy is absolute world class.
I kind of agree with you but especially so about Vermaelen. I only like him because he somehow can strike a ball and score some nice ass goals even though he is a defender. Arshavin should have never been a forward because he is a true winger. You could argue the same for C. Ronaldo. They put the same responsibilities on C. Ronaldo to be a lone forward and he did not perform as well as coming in from the sides which is where I made the connection between the two.
To me Cesc is more of a playmaker and VP is more of a finisher. VP is too much of a coin flip though because he is never in the first team enough to make his presence known especially cause of all his injuries. The thing about Bendtner is that he is just a tall forward, much like Crouch but with less skill.
Arshavin is just so expolsive on the ball that he reminds me of C. Ronaldo. I just don't see you guys winning any BIG games without him even if you have Cesc and VP on the pitch. He needs to be on his game or Arsenal loses and finishes fifth in the EPL... isn't that how it usually goes?
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On March 13 2010 00:13 Caphe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 05:20 kidd wrote:On March 11 2010 22:08 Klive5ive wrote:On March 11 2010 10:04 firedodo wrote:
Champions League Last 8 = 3-4 English teams + 1 Spanish team + 1 German team + 1-2 teams that qualify because they don't draw big names + the team that knocks out Real Flair players might be good at killing off weaker teams and winning leagues but in a cup competition you've gotta defend well. Man United went through a spell of failing in the CL despite EPL success and Arsenal are the same. Real need a complete team to make it. Drone you really think Fletcher would make it into the Barcelona line-up? The only United midfielder I rate at the moment is Valencia. He's shown some real class attacking recently and he gets back and defends too. I agree. Valencia is really strong right now. He may not be flashy like C. Ronaldo but he basically has been the major factor in that Rooney is the leading goalscorer of the EPL with his crosses (especially since now like half of rooneys goals are from headers). Also Aresenal is kind of turning into a Man U C. Ronaldo team from two years ago in that Arshavin is their go to player who sets up every goal or just scores himself. Looking at the game where Bendtner had a hat trick, Arshavin did pretty much all the work in every goal he had. Aresenal fans should hope that Arshavin also doesn't follow in C. Ronaldo's footsteps and try to go to Real or Barcelona. Valencia is good, but from what I see this season, he is not consistence. His play is highly predictable, and against a strong and fast full back, he will have a very hard time to get the ball in. His sense to cut inside and finish when it is needed is bad. As for Arshavin at Arsenal...well, he is magnificent but he somehow lacks some explosive that of C.Ronaldo. And Bendtner...I dont even want to talk about him. He needs to improve his finishing or I think Wenger should kick his ass out off the team at the end of this season... As for Fletcher as starting XI at Barcelona, I'd say no, but it could happen, Barcelona is a very technique depentdant team, and they need some ''worker'' at the defensive midfield who can runs miles after miles and have somewhat attacking ability when it is needed. And now Yaya Torey is that person at Barcelona, but I dont think Fletcher can not fit in.
I would say Valencia is pretty consistant. If you watched all of Man U's game this season (like I have) he has been pretty much the same player every game. Dribble the ball, beat a defender, cross the ball or shoot. He has demonstrated that against all types of defenders and has pretty much always been able to open up the field of play.
If you want to talk about an overly inconsistant player you should mention Nani. He has been quite bad for many games and then comes in versus Arsenal and plays like a top class star.
As for Fletcher he is a work horse. Him and Park are the same type of player in that they work their asses off and never try to be too flashy. Simple passes and strong fitness make them valuable to any and every team. You cannot have a football team where every single player is a C. Ronaldo or L. Messi who wants to dribble at five defenders before passing. Because of this I believe that Fletcher would be able to fill any team in the world for that matter. I would even go to say that Park could as well although probably none of you guys would agree with me.
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Kidd you seem like a real safe guy even if id accuse a few of your points as being ambitious.
Fletch and park are great players but their strengths are in versatility and work rate which, although works great for fergie theyd never be considered as the best in their positions. The following for example would always get the nod in the midfield position over the two because they are more refined in their style and attributes- combining athelticism, stamina and work rate with technique, vision and passing;
Xavi, Mascherano, Yaya Toure (or even Seydou Keita), L. Diarra, Melo, Essien, De Rossi, Cambiasso
Then you might argue Park is more of a winger, but again, he isnt "technically conventional" enough to be ranked higher than the overflooding amount of talent in the wing forward position:
Kaka, Ronaldo, Robinho, Pato, Messi, Aguero, Silva, Arshie  , Robben...
I guess its all down to the rest of the team. I think Dunga's Brazil are sort of the team that benefits from Fletch/Park style players but in terms of european club level football most teams require proficiency in one position over all-round water-carriers.
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Well i'm afraid we might be thinking in seperate ways. Let me try to explain my rationale. Players like Park and Fletcher are more of the type to add to a team as more of a take no credit but work the hardest type of role. For example, a team like Real Madrid has pretty much 11 super stars on the pitch at one time. However, they do not have any players like Park or Fletcher who basically are willing to give you 210% on the field until they drop to floor despite getting little to no praise for their actions. To me this is why Real will always fall short of winning anything major.
These work hard type of players can add to any team in my opinion. Put a player like Park or Fletcher next to messi or Henry at Barcelona and they will compliment them in every way possible. In fact that is Park's role at Man U. Basically what he does is work hard win the ball and then pass it. You will rarely see him dribble or even take more than 4-5 touches on the ball unless he is going to goal. Fletcher might dribble a bit more but still he is a very simplistic player who just looks for the smart pass instead of the Xavi Iniesta tricky pass.
You will get no argument out of me that the list you made features players that are more stylistic skill wise. All I am saying is to put a Park or Fletcher next to anyone one of the names in either list and they will make those players better.
Park and Fletcher are simply complitmentary players to add to any team which is what I mean in their descriptions of them. There is no doubt that they lack the skill of the best midfielders in the world but they do however play the best safest style of football. That is why they could contribute and start at any club in the world.
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I understand your point of them being exemplary team players that would compliment any of the world's best attacking talent but I'd still have to disagree that they'd be able to find a place in every first eleven because they dont necessarily provide the right type of play. Nor sell enough T-shirts..
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On March 13 2010 02:58 kidd wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Well i'm afraid we might be thinking in seperate ways. Let me try to explain my rationale. Players like Park and Fletcher are more of the type to add to a team as more of a take no credit but work the hardest type of role. For example, a team like Real Madrid has pretty much 11 super stars on the pitch at one time. However, they do not have any players like Park or Fletcher who basically are willing to give you 210% on the field until they drop to floor despite getting little to no praise for their actions. To me this is why Real will always fall short of winning anything major.
These work hard type of players can add to any team in my opinion. Put a player like Park or Fletcher next to messi or Henry at Barcelona and they will compliment them in every way possible. In fact that is Park's role at Man U. Basically what he does is work hard win the ball and then pass it. You will rarely see him dribble or even take more than 4-5 touches on the ball unless he is going to goal. Fletcher might dribble a bit more but still he is a very simplistic player who just looks for the smart pass instead of the Xavi Iniesta tricky pass.
You will get no argument out of me that the list you made features players that are more stylistic skill wise. All I am saying is to put a Park or Fletcher next to anyone one of the names in either list and they will make those players better.
Park and Fletcher are simply complitmentary players to add to any team which is what I mean in their descriptions of them. There is no doubt that they lack the skill of the best midfielders in the world but they do however play the best safest style of football. That is why they could contribute and start at any club in the world.
Man first lets start with Real Madrid always falling short of winning anything major. They are 9 time European champions that’s tops in Europe. The last one they won in 2001 was with the galactico policy in place, you know guys like Zidane and Figo. Every team has their Fletcher's because every team has defensive/holding midfielder's. For Madrid its the 2 Diara's and Alonso if you don’t think they work as hard as Fletcher then you probably dont watch Real Madrid play. As for Park ya he really does a lot of running but that’s the kind of winger he is. He's not a Ribery or Robben that can get the ball on the wing and run at the defence every time. That’s really up to the coach to decide on what kind of roll he wants from his winger. However guys like Ribery are like a rare commodity and therefore most coaches will rather have that kind of player. Really anyone who isn’t as skilful will try to make up for it by playing like Park. So you call it playing safe football, meaning they have top of the World technique and an exceptional work ethic but that doesn’t make them stand out, there’s hundreds of players like that around Europe. That's why I disagree that they could be starters at any club in the World.
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On March 13 2010 16:44 ArsenalGunners wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 02:58 kidd wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Well i'm afraid we might be thinking in seperate ways. Let me try to explain my rationale. Players like Park and Fletcher are more of the type to add to a team as more of a take no credit but work the hardest type of role. For example, a team like Real Madrid has pretty much 11 super stars on the pitch at one time. However, they do not have any players like Park or Fletcher who basically are willing to give you 210% on the field until they drop to floor despite getting little to no praise for their actions. To me this is why Real will always fall short of winning anything major.
These work hard type of players can add to any team in my opinion. Put a player like Park or Fletcher next to messi or Henry at Barcelona and they will compliment them in every way possible. In fact that is Park's role at Man U. Basically what he does is work hard win the ball and then pass it. You will rarely see him dribble or even take more than 4-5 touches on the ball unless he is going to goal. Fletcher might dribble a bit more but still he is a very simplistic player who just looks for the smart pass instead of the Xavi Iniesta tricky pass.
You will get no argument out of me that the list you made features players that are more stylistic skill wise. All I am saying is to put a Park or Fletcher next to anyone one of the names in either list and they will make those players better.
Park and Fletcher are simply complitmentary players to add to any team which is what I mean in their descriptions of them. There is no doubt that they lack the skill of the best midfielders in the world but they do however play the best safest style of football. That is why they could contribute and start at any club in the world.
Man first lets start with Real Madrid always falling short of winning anything major. They are 9 time European champions that’s tops in Europe. The last one they won in 2001 was with the galactico policy in place, you know guys like Zidane and Figo. Every team has their Fletcher's because every team has defensive/holding midfielder's. For Madrid its the 2 Diara's and Alonso if you don’t think they work as hard as Fletcher then you probably dont watch Real Madrid play. As for Park ya he really does a lot of running but that’s the kind of winger he is. He's not a Ribery or Robben that can get the ball on the wing and run at the defence every time. That’s really up to the coach to decide on what kind of roll he wants from his winger. However guys like Ribery are like a rare commodity and therefore most coaches will rather have that kind of player. Really anyone who isn’t as skilful will try to make up for it by playing like Park. So you call it playing safe football, meaning they have top of the World technique and an exceptional work ethic but that doesn’t make them stand out, there’s hundreds of players like that around Europe. That's why I disagree that they could be starters at any club in the World.
i really dont think there hundreds of players like Park in europe
maybe people who TRY to play like him but not at that level -- combining incredible work ethic, football brain, and stamina... and it's unwise to dismiss Park as lacking skills
besides his mediocre shooting ability, his pace, passing accuracy, dribbling ability are at least above average for a professional footballer
there is a reason why hes such an asset at Man U.
if anything, there are more of players with technical flashiness than this prototype
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park is a much better dribbler or passer than what most people give him credit for. I still remember when RVN was in MU Park was always able to slide him in.
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Park is like a light version of Ribery. Not that much technician, but really fast and with a good sense of the Goal.
Watch Out for Di Maria. He's Coming
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Park has no eye for the goal, he has excellent off the ball movement, as good as any winger in the premiership, which means he should be in a position to score often but he rarely does. He can indeed play the killer ball but 99% of the time he will go for the safe option to try not to lose possession. He's also not very fast but extremely quick. He does have a weird combination of qualities.
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Meh, don't see what's so special about Park.
Reminds me of Donovan with even less nose for goal but perhaps better positioning.
Always feel that there are a lot of Park archetypes; you know, the ones who work hard but doesn't quite have enough quality to be considered great.
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LOL that was a reaaaaal grinded out win hahahahah. but the offside/shitty penalty call was ridiculous
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ManU - Fulham 3-0
Rooney once again is magnificent...!!!
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mascara's penalty against inter, man he has balls of steel
also, the gayest name ever
:D
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On March 15 2010 05:14 uberMatt wrote:
mascara's penalty against inter, man he has balls of steel
also, the gayest name ever
:D
Yea haha.
When Muntari came on and was sent off in less than 2 mins was so hilarious.
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On March 15 2010 05:52 MooCow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 05:14 uberMatt wrote:
mascara's penalty against inter, man he has balls of steel
also, the gayest name ever
:D Yea haha. When Muntari came on and was sent off in less than 2 mins was so hilarious.
yea, both were such boneheaded mistakes too
i love when southern teams beat the big northern teams in italy ;3
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I pity all the teams that have to play against Real/Barcelona in La Liga.
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beckham out of the world cup
hmmmmmmm
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EPT
