The 3k kills with Malediction/Crow does count, but does it set the standard?
As for the 3rd midslot there are many options. You can use a dual-prop fit which can work fine with a disruptor, but also works with a scram. You can have both a disruptor and scram. Some pilots like to fit a shield extender to give you an edge in some fights. Sensor booster as you mentioned is a fine choice aswell. Even though I personally don't like it, some pilots do fit disruptor/web and make it work.
There are SO many situations where a disruptor only is a better choice. If you catch any solo ship it's obvious that he will have some sort of tackle. Almost all T1 ships bigger than Cruisers can and most likely will have a flight of warriors with them. Tackling any droneboat with a scrambler is suicide unless the target has low skills and you manage to kill the drones, which is only viable in a few select ships (Taranis being one of them).
You will have the odds against you if you get in scram range of a Drake or Harbinger, especially if you don't have mates who can immediately show up and save the day.
In these situations orbiting at 4km/s at 20km range will keep you alive. Can the target escape? Yes. Will he? In some situations yes.
Closing the distance and scrambling him will put you at great risk. Can the target escape? Not for the moment. Will he? If you don't have friends who can come to your aid faster than your targets Warriors can kill you, yes.
I'd rather use a disruptor to catch 5/10 targets, than a scrambler to catch 10/10 but die in 5 of those cases. The difference amounting to 100m ISK, but with the same amount of kills.
When flying larger ships, I prefer scrams aswell, but this is about Interceptors and nothing else.
If you come across a solo Myrmidon/Ishtar/Vexor or Domi and you're in a crow. Would you prefer a disruptor or scram? You are not solo PvPing in this case, you're the scout for your fleet.
You really only need to tackle them for about 5 seconds for your fleetmate frigates to warp-in and take over point, right? And at that point you're free to disengage... So unless someone got the serious jump on you, it seems unlikely they'll be able to deal that much damage to you so quickly...
An anecdote demonstrating the above: (story-time!) + Show Spoiler +
3 of us decided to go rifter roaming last night and we all fitted scambler/web. Yeah, it was overly redundant, but it really paid off in the end. Caelum picked up a couple of cruisers on d-scan who just came into the system on a nearby asteroid belt, and he quickly decided to jump one of them while we warped in. Thankfully the second cruiser didn't engage, but he was still getting pounded and his armor dropping somewhat fast -- but, he was able to hold point long enough for me to warp in there from the out-gate and take over tackling. At this point he still had several seconds left of armor tanking before having to warp out (cruiser just about done with shields or so), which was about the same time Ebola was able to rush in from the out-gate system (as he was our scout) and deal some punishment himself. The two of us were easily able to pound the cruiser to shreds with our autocannons over the next 15 seconds or so without even going into armor, while Caelum warped to a gate and promptly got reamed by gate-guns. The end.
I guess the question is whether a disruptor/web, or just disruptor alone would've done the job for Caelum? I'm not so sure, as the victim had a MWD if I recall correctly (as seen through the wreckage loot). In the several seconds it took for me to warp to Caelum, it's entirely possible that he could've MWD'd out and create several km of distance from my warp-in point. Not only does this reduce my dps, but there's also the possibility that he could've fought off Caelum and be out of range of my web. At that point, he has both the advantage of range superiority and being able to deal with us in a somewhat staggered fashion, rather than getting ganged 2-3 at a time within seconds.
On October 08 2010 20:30 kuresuti wrote: The 3k kills with Malediction/Crow does count, but does it set the standard?
Yes. And a pretty damn high one at that. Especially one which you can't seem to keep up with considering the experience in eve pvp your killboard link and the links to competent interceptor pilots have provided.
As for the 3rd midslot there are many options. You can use a dual-prop fit which can work fine with a disruptor, but also works with a scram. You can have both a disruptor and scram. Some pilots like to fit a shield extender to give you an edge in some fights. Sensor booster as you mentioned is a fine choice aswell. Even though I personally don't like it, some pilots do fit disruptor/web and make it work.
MSE is only viable on ares/stiletto. Apart from that, those quotes prove my points for me. Sensorbooster is fucking horrible except for very few circumstances, please don't quote me wrong. Tyvm. ;p
There are SO many situations where a disruptor only is a better choice. If you catch any solo ship it's obvious that he will have some sort of tackle. Almost all T1 ships bigger than Cruisers can and most likely will have a flight of warriors with them. Tackling any droneboat with a scrambler is suicide unless the target has low skills and you manage to kill the drones, which is only viable in a few select ships (Taranis being one of them).
Killing drones while tackling is viable in any combat interceptor fitted with scram/web unless the target has a neut. Taranis/Crow/Malediction/Stiletto are all capable of killing huginns, vagabonds and rapiers, given the interceptor pilot has enough skill to know what to do. The idea is to scram the target, keep transversal up and kill webbed drones.
You will have the odds against you if you get in scram range of a Drake or Harbinger, especially if you don't have mates who can immediately show up and save the day.
...wat? I mean, I suck in interceptors but even I am able to lol at them and keep the tackle without ever getting into danger. Let me guess, you are one of those guys who fit all their lowslots with nanos and overdrives, right? (;
I'd rather use a disruptor to catch 5/10 targets, than a scrambler to catch 10/10 but die in 5 of those cases. The difference amounting to 100m ISK, but with the same amount of kills.
I'd rather have competent pilots who don't die in 9/10 cases and in 1/10 cases they tell me to gtfo since they don't feel good about tackling a vagabond/rapier/ishtar.
If you come across a solo Myrmidon/Ishtar/Vexor or Domi and you're in a crow. Would you prefer a disruptor or scram? You are not solo PvPing in this case, you're the scout for your fleet.
Myrm is an easy tackle, it usually has no neuts and medium guns. Vexor is similar although a bit riskier since quite some people fit small guns on it, still doable. Tackling a pvp fitted ishtar is usually a bad idea, no matter if you have a scram (he might rape you) or a disruptor (he will get clear 90% of the time). Dominix is 50/50 since most solo dominixes you encounter are ratting or RR BS fitted, rarely for soloing. Basicly you are in danger once it is likely that your target has scram/web/small guns or a medium neut.
The only case where dis > scram is vs ships specifically set up to kill interceptors even though you don't expect it from them. Personally I flew a celestis set up to gank dramiels and I know faffy died to an AML caracal once. That's about it tbh.
Since you keep failing to make a viable point backed up by experience or proper links I consider this discussion done. Feel free to play your eve all the way you want, but please don't try and feed completely wrong opinions into people who try to get good at this game and rely on people with experience to give them a hand. I might be inactive at the moment, but I still care about our TLnet dudes getting better PvPers than the general eve population if they choose to.
more like a minute or two, especially if you do 60 au 0.0 warps. with a scram you have a higher chance of dieing if you dont fly correctly, with a dis you have a higher chance of the target getting away, esp if it has any speed whatsoever.
also i love how kuresuti fails to link any kb credentials but argues with an fc that led hundreds of 0.0 roams with 30++ people and all kinds of ship compositions.
If I want to web/scram a target and expect to die, I will fly a T1 frigate, it's much much cheaper and does basically the same job equally well. If I want to keep a point on a target for as long as possible I will fly a disruptor fitted interceptor.
The day when a CLEAR majority, not just a few random decent pilots you've linked or some "awesome FC I flew with a while back" come to the conclusion that one way is better than the other will it be a standard.
...wat? I mean, I suck in interceptors but even I am able to lol at them and keep the tackle without ever getting into danger. Let me guess, you are one of those guys who fit all their lowslots with nanos and overdrives, right? (;
I only fly the Taranis, so a DC and damage or speed mods or a mix of both. You fit plates on yours? XD
Anyway this is a clear instance of a "This is the way I've always done it, therefore you are wrong" argument, so there is no point in keeping it up.
Link to our 3 Rifter roam kill last night. Probably not the most impressive kill (guy had a Civilian Shield Booster) but it was my first successful one.
My internet connection has finally fallen over and died for good. As such I'll need someone to set skills for me within the next 6 hours or so. Anyone I might trust pm me, as I run out of time I'll have lowering standards of trust.
Edit: Got on, no idea how long i'll be for but I've queued up another day at least.
On October 09 2010 01:22 Azerbaijan wrote: Link to our 3 Rifter roam kill last night. Probably not the most impressive kill (guy had a Civilian Shield Booster) but it was my first successful one.
I tried explaining to them that people ratting alone in belts in low-sec are usually highly retarded.
I'm really interested in this interceptor discussion and I have some questions.
I see why a scram is preferable to a disruptor as in most situations I would need to web the target as well but I'm curious as to how I stay alive in situations where I am told by the FC to tackle a ship that ends up having drones/scram/web. Do I just hope my friends show up in time to take the pressure off me? I don't see how I would keep a high transversal without a working MWD and a web on me.
Sorry if the answer to this to obvious; I'm still new but I really want to fly interceptors (edit) correctly.
first off, you wont be hit by cruiser sized turrets if you orbit at 500m, even if youre scrammed/webbed and going around at only 250m/s. i have done this myself many many times. only things able to hit you (glancing blows) are ships with tracking bonuses to turrets and tracking mods. also if you dont have a web on the target, only a scram, some ships will be able to go at around 200m/s and therefore kite you partially. so if youre going for a scram, go for a web also (or at least dual prop).
if he has drones, well shoot them down. good tackling inties (like malediction/taranis) have tanks good enough, and attack good enough to take out some drones. malediction will also have a decent active tank and a nos, taranis can even have an ab for speedtanking. maledictions dmg may seem puny, but if you arent being kited (which you often arent, most of eve's pilot being too stupid to try it) you can put the web on drones and shoot them down with rockets. webbed drones take full dmg from rockets (or as close to full to make no difference). the other good tackling ceptor, the stiletto, doesnt have offense good enough to take out drones, but it does have 4 midslots, so you can either put dual prop on him, or just put triple tackle mods (scram/web/disruptor), so if its a slow droneboat (most all of them, apart from nanotars and gilas, which dont have webs cause of the need of midslots for shieldtank), you can just perma-mwd around them at 30 km and holding them with the disruptor. this is also outside the range of heavy neuts, so you will avoid that hazard and will be able to keep mwd running.
the caveat to shooting down drones being, that ishtar and domi will still probably pwn you if the pilot isnt a complete knob, cause of huge dronebays and lots of free midslots for tackle (unless its a nanotar). triple tackle stiletto is the best choice against them. but then again every type of fits has its drawbacks.
i hope this mumble-jumble of thoughts is coherent enough to read and understand.
Kil2, possibly the game's greatest pvp "wiseman", has repeatedly said that "eve is all about range". After spending most of my pvp time in 0.0 this goes double for that. Need examples? PL killing 3times the number of bs's in long range hacs, after jumping into them repeatedly and just burning off the gate losing only interceptors in the process because they didn't get scrambled. All of the dreadfights that used to happened(dreads have gone out of fashion with the supercarrier changes) used to be about who got the drop on who and by drop I mean who lit the cyno at a better range so the dreads came in at an optimal. And last but certainly not least an inty fight where 1 guy has a disruptor and 1 guy has a scram. The scram pilot wins the range fight and has all the options of doing whatever he likes, but that's a solo situation and in a fleet it's different. If you're in a fast ship that can't make the opponents dps go slow then you are useless. Don't look at a scram as a short range point, look at it as a point that has a note attached that says "HEY GUY YOU'RE GOING 500% SLOWER". People might say that tracking becomes irrelevant as soon as you get out of the frig ship class but it doesn't. Armor hacs for example fit afterburners and orbit at 50km or range going 500m/s in orbit. Shadoo has even said that their armor hac gangs get 80% tank from speedtanking(transversal) and 20% from guardians. Reducing a targets speed comes with so many benefits it makes your head spin. Suddenly all your missile boats are doing wtfdmg and while some wonder why faffy's crow blows shit up like no tomorrow it's simply because the web he carries adds more dps to rockets that another 2 bcu's ever would. That's why we always insisted and I still do that drake pilots(even hml drakes) fit scram and web so when they're going to be bait(and they will be) they can actually hold something in place for 2-3minutes. All in all the point is that a scram is probably the most useful midslot a ship can have after a speedmod. A scram makes ships like cyclones and feroxes with active tanks viable. With a web it makes dominixis with scram/web 1 shot crows with ogre II's(hey there wil : P). It takes up less cpu, takes less cap to run and most important of all lets nonscramed ships catch up to the target.
P.S. fitting shield extenders on stiletto's is bad, really really really bad. Inties get tanks from hull not from shields : >
Another question, Which interceptor is the best choice to start out with? I'm Caldari but I have Min Frigates at 3 already for Rifters so I was going to try the Stiletto first because in one of Evo's posts he says that tackling Inty's are better to start with and the Stiletto is better than the Raptor. Also, with my current skills I will immediately be able to fit triple tackle once I train for Inty's; that setup sounds really safe to me.
stiletto is my personal favorite, easy to fly and has loads of utility. you can put on a nos, scram/web/dis/mwd, DC, overdrive and small armor rep. rig it for warp speed and lock range. it can do pretty much everything.
rEvolutionTU's personal rant about specific interceptors, their role and their recommended fittings
Most of the information in this guide is stolen from what I learned from Faffywaffy who is, even though it seems he stopped flying ceptors on his main since he is in Darkside, simply the sickest ceptor pilot I know out there. For alle the ceptors which use faction fittings, usually the best named fills the same spot, even though the faction items add quite some benefits for those with the isk and skill to spare. Just use EFT a little bit to make the fitting a little bit cheaper if you're new to this.
Minmatar
For Minmatar we have the Stiletto and the Claw.
The Claw is, in my opinion one of the most useless ceptors in the game (right next to the raptor). It has the same slot layout as a Crusader (4-2-4) but suffers from CPU and range issues. It get's outdps'd by a ranis and gets kited to death by rocket ceptors like the Crow or Malediction. Not recommended at all.
The Stiletto is mostly one thing: Fucking versatile. It can be fitted from a very nasty gate-tackler/decloaker (3nanos, warp dis, 2 sebos, not recommended for roams unless asked for) as a cookie-cutter newb friendly tackler (dcu, repper, overdrive / mwd, scram, dis, web) to a pretty baller 1v1 ceptor with a tracking disruptor.
[Stiletto, Faffyissue, 1v1 pimp] Damage Control II Centii C-Type Small Armor Repairer Overdrive Injector System II
Coreli C-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive Shadow Serpentis Warp Scrambler Stasis Webifier II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S Corpii C-Type Small Nosferatu
Small Auxiliary Thrusters I Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Amarr
Amarr has two pretty baller interceptors which both excel at what they do. They lack the versatility of the minmatar ones and the inyourface-dps of the Taranis but both rape face in their respective categories.
The Crusader is probably one of the most feared 1v1 ceptors next to the taranis, keep that in mind when trying to engage someone. It has that "He is set up to kill me"-tag on it, unlike the stiletto, malediction or crow. However, it still does a pretty damn good job at it.
There really is just one way to fit a crusader, guns, dps, and a small tank. I'm still going to provide two fittings which have a slight difference in speed/range. The first one has a slightly higher speed and a little bit less range than the second one, with maxed out fittings it can get more dps though with a second damage rig. The second one is a little bit more forgiving on range. Keep in mind, you want to kite any hostile ceptor at 8km/10km. That's your engagement range, nothing less, nothing more. All in all it's great for soloing, horrible for fleet.
[Crusader, Faffyissue] Internal Force Field Array I Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer Heat Sink II Overdrive Injector System II
Gistii B-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive Dark Blood Warp Scrambler
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Energy Burst Aerator I
The Malediction is THE choice for fleetwork for the (in)famous modern faffy. It simply has it all. A solid tank for an interceptor, full slot tackle, the needed speed and even the potential to rape some poorly fitted ceptors 1v1. The first setup I'm going to show is a much cheaper one, the second one sacrifices 1v1 capability for more tackling capability (check the rigs). Keep in mind that it's crucial to KITE ceptors like the taranis or stiletto to be successfull 1v1. You want to keep tham at your maximum range, similar to the crusader. In thase case though you have the web/scram package to really do the trick. Keep in mind people will underestimate you. Prove them wrong.
[Malediction, Faffyissue, cheap] Damage Control II Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Overdrive Injector System II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket E5 Prototype Energy Vampire
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
[Malediction, Faffyissue, pimp] Damage Control II Corpii C-Type Small Armor Repairer Overdrive Injector System II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Shadow Serpentis Warp Scrambler Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Corpii C-Type Small Nosferatu Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket
Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I Small Targeting System Subcontroller I
Caldari
Caldari once again has one pretty useless interceptor, the Raptor. Why useless? It's pretty much an ares with 3 lowslots or a stiletto with 3 midslots. 4 highslots on a tackling ceptor is rather useless unless you want to nos your opponent to death.
The Crow however is one really nasty little bugger. People tend to think of it as useless since most people have no clue how badass rockets are vs webbed targets and therefore they usually fly weird disruptor/missile combinations which just ask to get ganked. However this is one of the best, if not THE best (next to the ranis and the crusader) soloing ceptors out there. Please note the gatling pulse laser which adds 25% (!) to your dps and is usually completely unexpected. You have the speed to kite a taranis, you have the web to get clear from a crusader (do not engage. thx.) and the dps to kick the shit out of everyone else. If you go solo, make sure to bring enough rockets, I know faffy killed tengus and ravens in this thing. Takes a while, but it's completely doable. Also the crow excels at ganking drones, simply because of its dps/range and the web.
Bonus: Viljushkas recommendation for new crow pilots. Cheap. Dpsy, nasty. Mr. Stalins rapemobile. Requires Launcher Rigging at IV or a +1% CPU implant.
[Crow, Faffyissue] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Overdrive Injector System II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Gatling Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
[Crow, Viljushkaryarrr] Ballistic Control System II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Overdrive Injector System II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Gallente
Gallente has probably the most feared (and, in my opinion most overrated) inteceptor and the fastest one. The Taranis is considered THE interceptor if people think about soloing in a ceptor or 1v1ing one. We are talking about 200-277 dps in a fucking FRIGATE hull. Why do I call it overrated? Because people don't die to it if they know how to kite it. You are usually slower than the other dude and do almost no damage at 8km+. HOWEVER personally I know about 5-6 people ingame who are capable of pulling that off. Considering that 99.9% of the general eve population sucks in flying interceptors, the taranis remains a damn fine choice.
Here I am going to present you three fittings. Faffys has his standard 4kms+ speed which is needed for fleets and sometimes for gatecrashing, mine has the same dps with some tank on it but it's just going 3.5kms unheated. The Garmonissue is the standard fit of the Genos Occidere Corporation which is also the standard dualprop fit. Instead of a web to make him slow and keep your close orbit you rely on an afterburner within scramrange to keep your range/get clear if you have to. A fleet of those buggers is pretty fucking gay if you ask me. A dramiel/taranis gang has killed carriers before. No, I'm not trolling (someone dig out that killmail, has to be on the D00M. killboard somewhere :D). Btw, never use void ammo. Always use null for 1v1's and faction antimatter if you need that extra damage cause you're killing a ratting BS atm. Always use hobgoblins as your drones and DONT FORGET TO USE THEM MIDFIGHT.
[Taranis, Garmonissue] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
1MN Afterburner II Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S Salvager I
Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
The Ares is one of the sexier tackling interceptors (second to the stiletto, in my opinion). It's problem however is it's low dps and it's blasterrange so it really has some trouble in 1v1 situations unless your opponent is trashfitted (which actually is more likely than you might expect it to be). The faffyissue relies on the standard web/scram and some ability to kill ceptors, personally I always flew a scram/dis version with a little bit heavier tank. Keep in mind that I only recommend the ares for scouting since it's ability to kill hostile tackle is just pretty... non existant.
[Ares, rEvoTUissue] Overdrive Injector System II Centii C-Type Small Armor Repairer Overdrive Injector System II Damage Control II
Warp Scrambler II Warp Disruptor II Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Light Electron Blaster II, Null S Light Electron Blaster II, Null S E5 Prototype Energy Vampire
Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
BONUS - THE MOST OVERPOWERED FRIGATE IN THE GAME.
I PRESENT YOU - THE DRAMIEL.
It's simple. Put it into EFT and laugh. You can't die because your fucking AB saves you all the time and you kill everything you see with almost taranis-like DPS. You kite the shit out of any blaster-ceptor and you rape face with everyone else due to superior tank dps and scramrange speed. I'm still going to show you two fittings, the Makalu-one is the standard cookie-cutter fitting which relies on buffer, the second one however might surprise some people but I consider it viable. Yes it's active tanked and still has more EHP than any other ceptor. Nerf protoss please.
(Be aware of dramiels. You might rape him or you might not. Depends on skills and fittings.)
r.Evo care to explain why use the named stuff instead of Tech II? I love the Faffyissue ranis but I can fit the Tech II stuff and since I haven't PvP'd much since I came back I just fit the Tech II instead of the named cus it's easier to fit in a hurry.
Same goes for all the other setups to be honest. But aside from the Taranis, Ares and Crow I don't have any experience with other frigs.
I've said it once and I'll say it again, Dramiels need a nerf... bad. Really, really bad.
On October 09 2010 09:17 Arhkangel wrote: r.Evo care to explain why use the named stuff instead of Tech II? I love the Faffyissue ranis but I can fit the Tech II stuff and since I haven't PvP'd much since I came back I just fit the Tech II instead of the named cus it's easier to fit in a hurry.
Same goes for all the other setups to be honest. But aside from the Taranis, Ares and Crow I don't have any experience with other frigs.
I've said it once and I'll say it again, Dramiels need a nerf... bad. Really, really bad.
Oh, damn, the X5 Prototype was a mistake. I'll edit it.
However Fleeting Propulsion > T2. Why? Same stats, but you can heat it longer. Same reasoning for Faint Epsilon Scram > T2 Scram. In those cases where T2 fits you might as well use it to save some isk if you want to. Personally if I cheapfit I tend to use X5 > T2 because of the longer heat, even though you sacrifice 2.5% slowing down effect.
On most of the fittings it's simply because they are pretty tight though, to avoid mistakes I'll doublecheck all of them and edit if I fucked it up. --v
Edit: Post updated, had wrong webs on the ranisses and wrong scram on the garmon-ranis. Also I added the offlined salvagers, otherwise kizu will tear my post apart. That's the best part about flying gallente ceptors btw.
EPT
