EPTEVE Corporation - Page 157
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Sokalo
United States375 Posts
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Chelmar
United States20 Posts
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pahndah
1193 Posts
On October 10 2010 11:49 Jayme wrote: You live in a universe where every Dram pilot is a perfect dual prop pilot? Cause a lot of the ones ive run into here and there arent even fitting dual prob anymore.... im not entirely sure WHY but yea. I mention daredevil because of its stupid DPS and the stupid Web bonus it gets. Taranis is more of a 50/50 but a Daredevil should never ever lose to a dramiel...ever. If a dramiel doesn't dual prop, I sure hope he's gate camping or something or else he deserves to die. Otherwise the dram pilot has to be pretty dumb to lose to a ranis. The dram has twice the ehp, 1 more drone than the ranis, flies 700 m/s faster if both ships have their AB on and as long as the dram pilot has hit the orbit at 5km range the taranis shouldn't get any blaster dps in. What about that ecm burst fit Revo! | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On October 10 2010 17:45 pahndah wrote: If a dramiel doesn't dual prop, I sure hope he's gate camping or something or else he deserves to die. Otherwise the dram pilot has to be pretty dumb to lose to a ranis. The dram has twice the ehp, 1 more drone than the ranis, flies 700 m/s faster if both ships have their AB on and as long as the dram pilot has hit the orbit at 5km range the taranis shouldn't get any blaster dps in. What about that ecm burst fit Revo! With the navy comet ecm burst fit I had quite some fun actually. Also the "I only lost because I had no clue what's going on and took to long to target you again"-comments where quite awesome. :D Stupid fast Dramiels and Cynabals? Nanofag 4 life, hell yeah. Sidenote: I find the current 100mn AB builds for cruisers and BCs much more appealing. Too bad the Loki kinda sucks at it, the tengu one is sick though. | ||
KwarK
United States43677 Posts
On October 10 2010 06:33 bN` wrote: Same way an invul that costs 150x the t2 variant doesn't make a drake 150x better? :> You fit the meta 4 dcu because you can then fit another mag stab. That other mag stab can very likely be the difference between living and dying. It's not the tank you're looking it getting the dps increase while gimping your tank for the minimum ammount(compared ot a t2 dcu) I know its the dps increase you're after and you just meta to get the fit to work. But for it to be worth it you need to win 50% more situations because of a tiny dps increase. The fact of the matter is that sometimes you will lose ships and that's alright, it's to be expected. The way you win is by making those ships you lose cost less than the ships you kill. If you increase your isk losses by 50% without decreasing your casualities by 33% then your efficiency has gotten worse. | ||
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bN`
Slovenia504 Posts
On October 10 2010 20:12 KwarK wrote: I know its the dps increase you're after and you just meta to get the fit to work. But for it to be worth it you need to win 50% more situations because of a tiny dps increase. The fact of the matter is that sometimes you will lose ships and that's alright, it's to be expected. The way you win is by making those ships you lose cost less than the ships you kill. If you increase your isk losses by 50% without decreasing your casualities by 33% then your efficiency has gotten worse. I agree with this assesment on ship sizes larger than frigates. Most time when you're soloing in say a cyclone you're gonna die the first fight you get into to(what kind of dmg you inflict on the enemy is up to you) mostly because a cyclone isn't as good at splitting the enemy ships up into chucks you can manage to kill so that 10-15% dps increase won't really matter all that much(not to mention the number of times you'll die to a giant blob or BECAUSE OF FALCON). However this is much different than a taranis or inties in general. Inties can survive gatecamps, can split opposing interceptors away from the enemy fleet, can disengage from fights and frigate fights end quite quickly compared to bc fights meaning the enemy will have less time to catch up. So in fitting you can assume that with proper piloting you can make fights more even and that's where fitting for the ideal 1v1 ~goodfight~ becomes the right approach. Still I wouldn't recommend the fit to a freshly trained ranis pilot with no 0.0 experiance. Get blown up in some cheaper fits first. P.S.: It increases your turret dps by 23(14%) and your overall dps by 10% which I wouldn't exactly call tiny. And reading proms posts on scrapheap he flies with a full set of damage implants so it's probably even more efficient. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
Keep in mind it's not only about what you lose when you die, but also about the damage you inflict while you are still alive and kicking. I'd rather fly a ship which has twice the pricetag but kills only 1.5x the stuff of what your normal fit does. Why? Cause it's more fun kicking someones ass than getting your ass kicked. It might not necessarily pad your killboard, but it definitly might improve your piloting skills. When I think of all the SFI / Vagabonds / Cynabals I blew up because of overextending myself... oh gawd. Yeah, sure, I could have flown a bellicose instead which would have killed 1/2 the stuff with 1/20th of the pricetag, but it would have been way less fun. Don't be too harsh with efficiency as long as you don't lose stuff because of obvious stupidity, which starts at fittings and basic tactics - and as long as you have the isk to replace your losses. Disclaimer: I suck at soloing. If any of you choose the path of a FC you will most likely suck at it, too. Why? A: You start to solo, someone asks "what are you doing?" you say "soloing" ... "can I tag along?" B: You solo, you kill shit, they bring a gang. You call in intel channels that you get a spontaneous fleet going since you just found targets via your secret spy intel. C: You solo, you get ganked, you get a fleet going to rape those fuckers. How the fuck should you learn how to solo under these conditions?  tl;dr: The better your survivability in general the more sense it makes to use "pimp" fittings imho. | ||
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KwarK
United States43677 Posts
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WiljushkA
Serbia1416 Posts
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bN`
Slovenia504 Posts
1. go solo 2. be vary about engaging when you know there's little chance of success 3. bitch about not getting fights 4. get frustrated go into fight with bad odds 5. die without killing anything meaning full 6. rage 7. think about what you could've done better 8. hindsight rage 9. get another ship 10. go to 1. step 5 is interchangable with: getting blobed, getting falconed, getting cynoed on, losing point on low hp target, enemy gang has scimitar, or attacking a dramiel with a rifter. | ||
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Johnny Business
Sweden1251 Posts
On October 11 2010 05:37 bN` wrote: Revo your solo steps are wrong. True soloers go along the lines of: 1. go solo 2. be vary about engaging when you know there's little chance of success 3. bitch about not getting fights 4. get frustrated go into fight with bad odds 5. die without killing anything meaning full 6. rage 7. think about what you could've done better 8. hindsight rage 9. get another ship 10. go to 1. step 5 is interchangable with: getting blobed, getting falconed, getting cynoed on, losing point on low hp target, enemy gang has scimitar, or attacking a dramiel with a rifter. Those steps are so true. That's exactly what happen when I did some 0.0 exploring. | ||
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pahndah
1193 Posts
On October 11 2010 05:37 bN` wrote: Revo your solo steps are wrong. True soloers go along the lines of: 1. go solo 2. be vary about engaging when you know there's little chance of success 3. bitch about not getting fights 4. get frustrated go into fight with bad odds 5. die without killing anything meaning full 6. rage 7. think about what you could've done better 8. hindsight rage 9. get another ship 10. go to 1. step 5 is interchangable with: getting blobed, getting falconed, getting cynoed on, losing point on low hp target, enemy gang has scimitar, or attacking a dramiel with a rifter. 1. Go solo salvaging 2. be wary about gatecamps that I'll probably not run into 3. Fly 20 jumps to get to destination and bitch about long warp distances 4. get frustrated seeing no wrecks after flying to destination 4a. wrecks is on pos =_= 5. find t2 wreck but see hostiles on wreck 6. wait 20 minutes 7. wish the people in local would leave the wreck 8. wait some more 9. wreck despawns 10. cry on inside 11. go back to step 3 Number 9 is interchangeable with: someone else salvages the wreck, wreck gets blown up, wreck gives metal scraps/bad t2 salvage, a neut warps to gate and sees me salvaging and blows up wreck. Fixed. | ||
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
On October 11 2010 01:08 KwarK wrote: My PvP ships fully fitted and including the cost to insure come in at about 42m with 24m returned in insurance so obv that's a completely different style of PvP. When I take a ship out I fully intend to lose it, I usually already have its replacement. I may be the master of 1b+ drakes PvE but PvP I stick to t2. Except that one time you lost a 200m drake >_> | ||
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Chelmar
United States20 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On October 11 2010 01:08 KwarK wrote: My PvP ships fully fitted and including the cost to insure come in at about 42m with 24m returned in insurance so obv that's a completely different style of PvP. When I take a ship out I fully intend to lose it, I usually already have its replacement. I may be the master of 1b+ drakes PvE but PvP I stick to t2. Oh.. now THAT explains some things. What you describe is not a "different style of PvP" but rather a completely inefficient mindset. When PvPing you should be PREPARED to lose your ship but not INTEND to do so. Thinking of all the situations people like Mukk or me got away in Hurricanes and Nanotempests when half the fleet loldied (or people in Vagabonds got doomsdayed while a Tempest got clear, sup dex?)... survivability is a huge factor in PvP and a lot of it comes from mindset more than from the ship you are flying. While blasterboats completely suck for this type of stuff and minmatar ships excel at this task a properly flown drake has quite some survivability in tough situations, too. It's not as great as the combination of speed/raping tackle/neuts that e.g. a Hurricane/Tempest/Vagabond has, which means you need more foresight in combat. Keep that scanner up. Align out when you are not needed as a tackler. Keep that scanner up. Know when to overheat guns/MWD/scram/web. Know when to make which calls on coms. Know when it makes more sense to burn away or to burn close (this is what makes minmatar so difficult, you have to choose between applying max DPS and agility midfight - coincidently this is also which makes them so great for small gang pvp). In e.g. a Drake those choices still apply (close range = web = more dps, long range = out of point range, can still apply dps), but they are much more subtle. Most people underestimate their baiting abilities vs a fleet that knows how to manage range and heat well. Back when PL did their "resting in curse"-time they tried to hotdrop roaming gangs all fucking day. Bait-Bhaalgorn, Bait-Nightmare, Bait-Raven, Bait-Rapier, Bait-Dominix. Just name it. You engage it, you get close, you get cyno'd and bridged on, you die. The only FCs engaging and winning those things were Mukk and me. Why? We knew our enemy, knew what their plan was. So we adjusted by approaching, telling the whole fleet to TURN THE FUCK AROUND AS SOON AS YOU GET CLOSER THAN 15-20KM and make them ready to ALIGN THE FUCK OUT when the cyno appears and to KEEP DAMAGE APPLIED. We never got that damn nightmare that way since they were carefull about it, but the ubertanked (neutral) ravens died on a regular basis. tl;dr: I think you don't lose that many drakes because it is unavoidable, I think it's because you don't pay enough attention to your scanner/the situation on the field.  PS: I suffer from huge FPS myself, so, no worries. It won't get better. But you can get that little voice in your head louder which says "You're only doing this because.." ... then you can choose to listen to it or not. ;D | ||
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Arhkangel
Argentina769 Posts
Shouldn't an Assault Frigate beat an Interceptor if they are of the same race? I love me some Assault Frigates. Gallente and Minmatar AF <3 | ||
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pahndah
1193 Posts
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Dexxus
United States329 Posts
To everyone reading about pimpfits and things like that, I suggest that you keep in mind that frigates will always be the cheap (and IMO best) way to learn how to pvp. | ||
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pahndah
1193 Posts
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
anyone interested? i dont evne know where to start lol. no pos in sight. edit: its c3 edit2: img too big, made it url | ||
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