EPTEVE Corporation - Page 154
| Forum Index > General Games |
|
Guilford
Australia290 Posts
| ||
|
pahndah
1193 Posts
On October 07 2010 15:54 r.Evo wrote: -Know what you can and can't do, but trust your FC. He sends you to tackle a vagabond or huginn? Tell him that you will most likely die doing it. If he insists, do it. It's his job to look at the big picture, not yours. I once had a 20 second argument with a scout I sent to tackle a rapier on gate because I had a logistics positioned on the other side of the gate I knew the scout was going to be fine. He first refused to tackle, then asked the logistics to confirm that he's on the other side. Just don't pull that kind of crap. If your FC was a complete fucktard, tell him after the op, not during it. That reminds me of that one time where you had me tackle a vagabond with a drake sitting next to it in my dram. I blew up T_T. You should have KNOWN it was a 73 AU warp to the station. Edit: I also can not stress this enough but as a scout you should KNOW the types of common fitting for every ship BS and below, and know what a sensor booster that is online looks like. IE. If you see an Arazu or rapier on gate as you jump in, you better crash the gate unless you know you'll be able to burn 40km away within the next few seconds when you decloak. Knowing what an artillery gun looks like, and what a AC looks like helps too. There also might be a rare occasion, but knowing if a dread or carrier is in siege/triage is important too. (Big Guns popped out/carrier shining like its a vampire in the sun from Twilight). Having warp in spots 150km+ off of gates around regions where you usually roam is a sign of a really good scout. I personally have over over 200 between Scalding pass, Great Wildlands, and Providence. Nothing sucks worse than seeing 3-4 in local, nothing on scan, warping to the next out gate and getting pulled into a bubble and dying. When in doubt, warp to an celestial that's not in line with your out gate if you fear the hostiles in local are active and than warping to the gate at 0. As an inty, this won't take more than 10-20 seconds. If you do happen to land in a bubble though, overheat your MWD and go STRAIGHT. Do not try to do a 180 and warp back the way you came, even if you're in an inty you will have a greater chance burning forward and than making a huge loop around and warping out. IMO, a dramiel is the ONLY true scouting ship because its heads and shoulders above everything else. The frigate aligns the fastest, flies the fastest, has one the fastest lock speeds, has twice the tank of any other frigate/inty, and can beat every interceptor in the game. | ||
|
Happy.fairytail
United States327 Posts
On October 07 2010 17:19 pahndah wrote: Edit: I also can not stress this enough but as a scout you should KNOW the types of common fitting for every ship BS and below, and know what a sensor booster that is online looks like. + Show Spoiler + IE. If you see an Arazu or rapier on gate as you jump in, you better crash the gate unless you know you'll be able to burn 40km away within the next few seconds when you decloak. Knowing what an artillery gun looks like, and what a AC looks like helps too. There also might be a rare occasion, but knowing if a dread or carrier is in siege/triage is important too. (Big Guns popped out/carrier shining like its a vampire in the sun from Twilight). On October 07 2010 10:29 pahndah wrote: It always helps to know what you can and cannot tackle. + Show Spoiler + If you are in a frigate or interceptor, try not to bother/tackle to following ships unless your fleet is very close behind you, rapier, huginn, saber, curse, pilgrim, caracal, rook, falcon, daredevil/dramiel (unless you’re in one yourself), any mothership/titan, cruor. If these ships are properly flown and fitted, they will most likely get away and/or kill you. Know your rat wrecks. If you scan wrecks, be able to know immediately whether they are anomaly/plex rats, or the usual belt rats. On October 07 2010 15:54 r.Evo wrote: + Show Spoiler + "CHECKCHECK Armageddon landing on grid... he warped to the gate, want me to push him?" ... "Go for it, Squad one, jump in and assist. Keep your scanner hot." ... The Armageddon Pilot smells what's going to happen when he sees the gate flashing, he's launching a set of small drones and tries to take the tackler with him. "He's aggro'd but I'm fine.." .. Your are the ears and eyes of him and the whole fleet. ... Your job is to be calm, precise and focussed. You are used to the fact that you can get out of almost any tough situation by relying on speed and agility. + Show Spoiler + Use your brain. 95% of the time your job is just to observe and pass on those observations. In the other 5% you are allowed to make decision instead of the FC (note: Know your FC, some will kick you in the face for that, others will love you). If your FC is one of those who trust your judgment abilities, maybe because you're an FC as well and you shout out "Hostile fleet on gate, get clear asap" that's completely fine. "8 in local, raven and geddon on gate... I think they're about to jump.. GEDDON ALIGNING OUT want me to tackle?" In the ideal case scout and FC are a team that knows how to work together. Especially during fights or when you are about to engage it's quite normal that the scout(s) and the FC cut each other off because they know what they have to say right now is more important than anything else. Use your own judgement here and try and learn from other scouts and your FCs. Wow, lots of awesome information here, and it really shows how much experience you guys have. It seems that as a scout, you have to have extensive experience with every commonly played ship out there, both piloting and fighting against them, as you probably need a good sense of how dangerous the fleet is and what they can do. You probably also need experience gatecamping, getting gate ambushed, and learning to fight tackles yourself. Also, being able to recognize ship-types off of ship names is probably good too =P Would it be fair to say that before I try learning to scout, I should instead first tech up to BC/BS, do mission 4s, and get the money so I can afford to lose plenty of ships doing lots of pvp? Scouting seems to be a very advanced skill...! And lastly, what does crashing the gate mean? Also, is cloaking essential or important in scouting? And r.evo, you say don't use nanite paste, but kizu you recommend it? So is overloading worth it or no? Thanks again for the awesome posts! | ||
|
pahndah
1193 Posts
Crashing a gate means burning back towards the gate you just jumped through (you'll be 14km away) and jumping back through. Fitting a cloak on your scouting ship is never essential unless you're in a recon ship (not typical scout ship). Overloading your mwd is always worth it if you want to decloak someone or have to run away. Revo said not to use Nano's (the low-slot mod to make your ship have better agility). I was referring to nanite paste, which repairs damaged modules after overheat. | ||
|
GaliKo
Canada207 Posts
| ||
|
Shymon
United States620 Posts
On October 07 2010 23:08 Happy.fairytail wrote: Wow, lots of awesome information here, and it really shows how much experience you guys have. It seems that as a scout, you have to have extensive experience with every commonly played ship out there, both piloting and fighting against them, as you probably need a good sense of how dangerous the fleet is and what they can do. You probably also need experience gatecamping, getting gate ambushed, and learning to fight tackles yourself. Also, being able to recognize ship-types off of ship names is probably good too =P Would it be fair to say that before I try learning to scout, I should instead first tech up to BC/BS, do mission 4s, and get the money so I can afford to lose plenty of ships doing lots of pvp? Scouting seems to be a very advanced skill...! And lastly, what does crashing the gate mean? Also, is cloaking essential or important in scouting? And r.evo, you say don't use nanite paste, but kizu you recommend it? So is overloading worth it or no? Thanks again for the awesome posts! Being a GOOD scout is an advanced "skill" but it's also a perfect job for newer players as the actual skill point requirements are very minimal. it's also one of the fastest ways to learn how to FC (if you want to eventually do that) and just learn in general. so no i would say it's better to learn to scout in cheap ships while skilling to BCs. also forget BSes at the moment, way too much time for reward for newer players atm, all the cool kids fly HACs ;p | ||
|
Happy.fairytail
United States327 Posts
If you jump into an in-gate camp, what can you do? You can't go back due to session timer (and the 15km distance is probably too far), you can't warp if you're in a bubble, and you'll likely get tackled by an interceptor once your cloak wears off... It seems the best you can do is just watch your map for recent podkills, and hope you're not the first victim of a gate camp. Since the warp bubble pull-in range is as far as 100km, doesn't that effectively make any warp bubble 105-140km range? | ||
|
kuresuti
1393 Posts
On October 08 2010 00:26 Happy.fairytail wrote: Hey guys, I was trying to look up more information on warp bubbles, and I have a couple of questions: If you jump into an in-gate camp, what can you do? You can't go back due to session timer (and the 15km distance is probably too far), you can't warp if you're in a bubble, and you'll likely get tackled by an interceptor once your cloak wears off... It seems the best you can do is just watch your map for recent podkills, and hope you're not the first victim of a gate camp. Since the warp bubble pull-in range is as far as 100km, doesn't that effectively make any warp bubble 105-140km range? If you get caught in a bubble alone, and the ones who have it set up aren't idiots, there will be little you can do to survive. This is a good read on drag mechanics. | ||
|
Snowfield
1289 Posts
On October 07 2010 23:08 Happy.fairytail wrote: Wow, lots of awesome information here, and it really shows how much experience you guys have. It seems that as a scout, you have to have extensive experience with every commonly played ship out there, both piloting and fighting against them, as you probably need a good sense of how dangerous the fleet is and what they can do. You probably also need experience gatecamping, getting gate ambushed, and learning to fight tackles yourself. Also, being able to recognize ship-types off of ship names is probably good too =P Would it be fair to say that before I try learning to scout, I should instead first tech up to BC/BS, do mission 4s, and get the money so I can afford to lose plenty of ships doing lots of pvp? Scouting seems to be a very advanced skill...! And lastly, what does crashing the gate mean? Also, is cloaking essential or important in scouting? And r.evo, you say don't use nanite paste, but kizu you recommend it? So is overloading worth it or no? Thanks again for the awesome posts! Scouting is by far the fastest/best way to learn the game, i would volunteer for that every time. It's also the most fun you can have between fights in a fleet | ||
|
Happy.fairytail
United States327 Posts
Btw, went ninja-salvaging and a little looting for the first time last night. Had a blast, and made ~4M before they left the mission. Got to practice my ship probe scanning too! (listening to megaman 2 wiley stage 1 theme made it all the more awesome) | ||
|
TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
to happy.fairytail : be careful if you loot  | ||
|
bN`
Slovenia504 Posts
What you should be doing is tackling, while the standard tackle mods on a inty should ALWAYS BE A SCRAMBLER!!!!!!1111 and web, a stiletto with 4 mid slots has space for a disruptor which is useful. If you're fighting on a gate and the fight is going your way jump the gate and tackle straglers(or even better web+scram logistics ships ont he other side of the gate when they jump out from aggro). If they run, follow them since you warp 3-4x their warpspeed. But please don't de suicidal, always try to keep some form of transversal and keep an eye out who's targeting you and how many red boxed drones are on your ass. And don't forget to bring a salvager | ||
|
Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On October 07 2010 17:19 pahndah wrote: That reminds me of that one time where you had me tackle a vagabond with a drake sitting next to it in my dram. I blew up T_T. You should have KNOWN it was a 73 AU warp to the station. Edit: I also can not stress this enough but as a scout you should KNOW the types of common fitting for every ship BS and below, and know what a sensor booster that is online looks like. IE. If you see an Arazu or rapier on gate as you jump in, you better crash the gate unless you know you'll be able to burn 40km away within the next few seconds when you decloak. Knowing what an artillery gun looks like, and what a AC looks like helps too. There also might be a rare occasion, but knowing if a dread or carrier is in siege/triage is important too. (Big Guns popped out/carrier shining like its a vampire in the sun from Twilight). Having warp in spots 150km+ off of gates around regions where you usually roam is a sign of a really good scout. I personally have over over 200 between Scalding pass, Great Wildlands, and Providence. Nothing sucks worse than seeing 3-4 in local, nothing on scan, warping to the next out gate and getting pulled into a bubble and dying. When in doubt, warp to an celestial that's not in line with your out gate if you fear the hostiles in local are active and than warping to the gate at 0. As an inty, this won't take more than 10-20 seconds. If you do happen to land in a bubble though, overheat your MWD and go STRAIGHT. Do not try to do a 180 and warp back the way you came, even if you're in an inty you will have a greater chance burning forward and than making a huge loop around and warping out. IMO, a dramiel is the ONLY true scouting ship because its heads and shoulders above everything else. The frigate aligns the fastest, flies the fastest, has one the fastest lock speeds, has twice the tank of any other frigate/inty, and can beat every interceptor in the game. Only bitches fly drams tbh. Also a malediction/taranis are both mow than capable of killing that gay frig not to mention daredevils, slicers, and curtails are all capable...very | ||
|
kuresuti
1393 Posts
On October 08 2010 05:38 bN` wrote: ALWAYS BE A SCRAMBLER!!!!!!1111 Wait what? Getting into scrambler range means you are in range of their tackle as well, which spells death for an Interceptor. Taranis is the only Interceptor which thrives in below warp disruptor ranges. Only in larger fights would I prefer a scram over point unless I'm flying Taranis. | ||
|
bN`
Slovenia504 Posts
...makes me rage really fucking hard. Edit: Seriously, fit scrambler, grow balls, use transversal, having a distuptor in 0.0 on a ship that goes really fast but not having a scram is just bad since speed and range dictation is everything in 0.0 and eve in general. Just don't say you fit disruptor + web because then my head will explode. | ||
|
kuresuti
1393 Posts
There are few ships that can take down an Interceptor going 4km/s at 25km range with ease, especially if the interceptor pilot knows how to fly his ship. You probably know as well as I do that you don't get to choose your target and fitting a scram just because you might run into a Vagabond or Cynabal or whatever is not good enough reason to always have one fitted, but hey, EVE is a sandbox game and if that's how you like to fly be my guest. | ||
|
r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On October 08 2010 00:26 Happy.fairytail wrote: Hey guys, I was trying to look up more information on warp bubbles, and I have a couple of questions: If you jump into an in-gate camp, what can you do? You can't go back due to session timer (and the 15km distance is probably too far), you can't warp if you're in a bubble, and you'll likely get tackled by an interceptor once your cloak wears off... It seems the best you can do is just watch your map for recent podkills, and hope you're not the first victim of a gate camp. Since the warp bubble pull-in range is as far as 100km, doesn't that effectively make any warp bubble 105-140km range? Do not confuse session change with the cloak timer. If you jump into a bubble camp as a scout you can wait out session change and THEN burn back to the gate and jump out. Your cloak is longer than your session change timer. On October 08 2010 06:15 Jayme wrote: Only bitches fly drams tbh. Also a malediction/taranis are both mow than capable of killing that gay frig not to mention daredevils, slicers, and curtails are all capable...very Malediction? No way. Taranis? If the dramiel pilot fucks up hard, yes. Apart from that the dualprob enables the dramiel to get away whenever he pleases. Dramiel is the #1 scouting ship and the #1 "interceptor" at this point in time, there's pretty much no discussion. While it IS such a great ship I'd however practice in "normal" interceptors simply because of the price tag. But tbh once you flew a dramiel there is no way you want to go back. On October 08 2010 08:21 kuresuti wrote: If you are in a situation where you don't know if whether scram or point is the best choice, any competent pilot will tell you to put on a point. If you have a bunch of warriors on you, a web or scram will insta-pop you, literally. There are few ships that can take down an Interceptor going 4km/s at 25km range with ease, especially if the interceptor pilot knows how to fly his ship. You probably know as well as I do that you don't get to choose your target and fitting a scram just because you might run into a Vagabond or Cynabal or whatever is not good enough reason to always have one fitted, but hey, EVE is a sandbox game and if that's how you like to fly be my guest. On that scram vs disruptor discussion.. Whenever someone starts that discussion ingame I went back to the good old "Have you FC'd and scouted more than me? No? k, then stfu" sledgehammer arguement, simply because there is not much to discuss there. However, since this is about education for fellow TLnetitzen eggpilots.. here you go. THE JOB OF AN INTERCEPTOR IS TO HOLD STUFF IN PLACE. Even a fucking harbinger with an overheated mwd can get out of the range of your heavy dps pretty quick, which results in a fleet stretched over 100km till someone with a scram caught up. Yeah, the ceptor pilot is not in danger, but it's not his job to never get into danger. It's his job to TACKLE stuff. REAL tackle always was and always will be scram/web. THAT's how you make someone stop moving. Since I understand that flying that kind of setup is way too difficult for beginners since it requires proper heat-management, maintaining transversal and a solid awareness of your surroundings (all of that midfight) I recommend scram/dis/mwd setups for beginners. This gives you the easy method of just slapping that dis on your target or the "real" tackle in terms of a scram in case your FC starts shouting. Once again to put it into one simple sentence: Every Interceptor that fits only a disruptor is completely and utterly useless and should be shot on sight by any competent FC or fleetmember. "Any competent pilot will tell you to put on a disruptor"? Excuse me, but that is one of the most bullshit sentences I ever heard on the topic. If you disagree, please link me a single pilot whos profile shows that he solos and scouts on a regular basis and show me fittings of him where he flies ceptors with just a disruptor. To prove my point and to show people here some cool places to find decent fittings for all kinds of ships, here are my three all-time favorite scouts and frigatepilots: #1 Faffywaffy (around 3.5k kills with ceptors): Flew with him for a long time, one of the best. Not much more to say. http://teamliquid.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=107452 #2 5kyscreamx (around 1.4k kills in frigates, 800 of which in a dramiel): Same here, one of the sickest dramiel pilots I know. http://teamliquid.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=391679 #3 Suitonia (around 1.7k kills in his taranis): Never flew with him, but quite some time against him. His skills in frigates (especially incursus and taranis) are simply insane. Best taranis pilot out there imho. http://teamliquid.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=43111 PS: On the "EVE is a sandbox game and if that's how you like to fly be my guest" argument. It's wrong. The second you join a fleet you are no longer responsible just for yourself, but also for the buddies around you. You are not a hero if you fly whatever the hell you please. It's your FCs job to build a fleet around his personal ideas and viewpoint of eve pvp and it's your job to comply to what he asks for or to not join his fleet. If there is a single FC out there who tells ceptors to only fit disruptors and I'm in his fleet for whatever random reason I will fit exactly what he asks for, despite all the reasons I know not to. I kinda count on people from the hatchery not to pull that crap though. =P You can experiment all you want if you are solo, but in a fleet you have to fit like your FC wants you to without arguing and you have to follow his orders without arguing when shit hits the fan. Yes, these statements are over-harsh and personally I love pilots who throw in the right idea at the right moment, but in essence that's how everyone should look at it. And if your FC tells you to suicide into gateguns, you might ask for a second if he really wants it and then do it nevertheless. You still have the choice of not rolling with him the next time. (This was btw one of the first lessons I learned in eve and imho one of the most important for any new guy into eve pvp. <3 Dex) PPS: All of the ceptor pilots I named above have killed multiple hostile ceptors in front of their fleet. Why and how? Cause they dragged the fight out to 100km with mwds, then went for the scram and gank with the hostile fleet looking helpless since they were out of range. Not to mention that web/scram vs like disruptor/sensorbooster allows you to engage 2-3 people at once since your dps gets on the target - theirs doesn't. | ||
|
kuresuti
1393 Posts
If the third one wants to fit warp scramblers on a crow, I don't care. I still feel it is not sound advice to answer "ALWAYS BE A SCRAMBLER!!!!!!1111" to the question, THAT sir is bullshit. I am not close-minded or ignorant, I can see why warp scramblers can work in some situation where disruptors won't, but claiming that's the "ALWAYS BE A SCRAMBLER!!!!!!1111" way to fly a ship is just... no. EDIT: If this is about teaching the new players about tackling, on the T1 frigs Scram/Web is the way to go in most situations. EDIT: Woops, I read too fast, the 2nd pilot listed flies the Dramiel, which is also good with a scram. That's two ships you've got there to prove your point. | ||
|
r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On October 08 2010 18:55 kuresuti wrote: Nice job r.Evo, you just described how to fly, wait for it.... a Taranis. I didn't look too hard, but it seems like two of the pilots you mentioned fly the Taranis mostly. If the third one wants to fit warp scramblers on a crow, I don't care. I still feel it is not sound advice to answer "ALWAYS BE A SCRAMBLER!!!!!!1111" to the question, THAT sir is bullshit. I am not close-minded or ignorant, I can see why warp scramblers can work in some situation where disruptors won't, but claiming that's the "ALWAYS BE A SCRAMBLER!!!!!!1111" way to fly a ship is just... no. EDIT: If this is about teaching the new players about tackling, on the T1 frigs Scram/Web is the way to go in most situations. EDIT: Woops, I read too fast, the 2nd pilot listed flies the Dramiel, which is also good with a scram. That's two ships you've got there to prove your point. Cool that 3k kills with a malediction/crow don't count. The advice that each and every inteceptor should have a scram fitted is actually the best advice any new interceptor pilot could get. Once a fleet has certain dedicated people e.g. a stiletto with dual sensorboosters and a disruptor for tackling on gates might be pretty damn good in a fleet, however, that should not be the standard and you should not show up in a fitting like that for a fleet unless asked to/informing your FC beforehand and having him be okay with it. The standard should be interceptors who can TACKLE people and make them MOVE SLOWER so that your heavy dps can get into range. That task is not possible without a scram and it's performed better with a web in addition to the scram. Care to link your killboard stats/ingame name? I like to know who I'm talking to. Also please tell me a single solid argument to prove that disruptor ONLY is a good choice. Also, what would you put into that 3rd midslot and why? While we're at it, yes I advocate scrams on most larger ships too, there we have to differentiate though. For my taste (note that I disagree here with some FCs who have valid points as well) nanohacs should always be disruptor fitted. Other people advocate scrams on nanohacs to be able to kill other nanohacs/interceptors better and to be a better scout, but personally I don't like it for various reasons (if someone really wants to, I can write more on that topic). BCs should have a scram or neuts (standard cane with 2 medium neuts can get away with a disruptor imo), on those which can afford twoslot tackle like the drake I prefer scram/dis over scram/web. All of the above goes for shieldtanked ships only, for armor tanked fleets and small gang battleships I lack the experience in FCing to make any definite statement. | ||
|
WiljushkA
Serbia1416 Posts
if you have just a dis, tackling fast things doesnt actually keep them tackled. also, rev, i would just stick with the "Have you FC'd and scouted more than me? No? k, then stfu" argument, it works and its valid enough. | ||
| ||
