On October 06 2010 05:46 iaretehnoob wrote: we also did this thing, where we engaged a lone drake with a merlin, 4 cruisers and a harb and the drake got away with about 10% structure after killing everything but the harb Still was fun tho and maybe I've learned something new again.
On October 06 2010 03:53 WiljushkA wrote: around 6.1 bil. seriously though, in the year and a half i played, the value of isk hasnt changed one bit.
better question whats the price of a navy raven?
550 mil or so.
6.1 bil will get you pretty damn far still. You can't buy a mom with it but everything else is up for grabs.
ah that's good I assume a regular raven is still about 70-80mil...still a pretty big profit margin for me then. If I came back I would want to build up enough to start a t2 bpo copying plant. That's assuming I could get a t2 bpo lol.
Was the failest fail ever though since the last harb standing didnt have a scram
in a gang that small theres absolutely no justification for a harb not to fit a point
When you go into amakake you can never quite expect what youre going to engage
as is true with every other system in eve. what you can do is not engage in a fight thats bad for you. though i understand how its like when youre bored for hours and just have to FIGHT
It's really the only option for completely min spec'd characters who can't fly lokis yet. Like Revo said, you're mainly going to be heavy tackle (the way I fit the SFI I have more ehp than my zealot), and you're also a great scout.
Flown that way, SFIs are a nice edition to an ahac gang. Just don't be expecting to top any KMs as your DPS is pretty terrible.
All that matters is that Kills counter on a the killboard anyway AMIRITE? :>
Confirm, good sir.
EDIT: Oh, and the Drake loss to a solo cane should pain you the most Revo.
When you go into amakake you can never quite expect what youre going to engage
as is true with every other system in eve. what you can do is not engage in a fight thats bad for you. though i understand how its like when youre bored for hours and just have to FIGHT
When you're bored for hours its time to dock up and STATION SPIN.
WE ARE OUT OF THE ALLIANCE! WE ARE OUT! OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE IT. After so much hard talking and tickets and explanations we are finally out :') We can start wardeccing everyone
JP Fatum is holding the alliance with the corp Liquid Placeholder in it.
EXACTLY! We are war deccing everything and everyone in high sec. If everything goes as planned you wont be able to undock for the next year or so. You have until tommorow at midnight to carebear after that we are going on a crusade.
I'm sorry for not having a warp scram on my harb. Had a warp disruptor but he had a really long range scram and I couldnt mwd. The scram problem is fixed on my harb now btw.
Soon I got t2 medium lasers and I got a microphone now!
On October 06 2010 20:06 Johnny Business wrote: I'm sorry for not having a warp scram on my harb. Had a warp disruptor but he had a really long range scram and I couldnt mwd. The scram problem is fixed on my harb now btw.
Soon I got t2 medium lasers and I got a microphone now!
A warp scram on a harbinger? Am i missing something? Oo
When a Warp Scrambler module is sucessfully activated on a targeted ship, the target is unable to initiate warp and any Microwarpdrive modules fitted to the target ship cannot be activated.
A scout is a vital role in any fleet. Primarily, you're job as a scout is to make sure your fleet isn't running into a force, and vice versa, letting your FC know when there’s a force you’ll be able to bait out and fight, quickly pointing/giving chase to ships that you happen to run into, and finding ratters that don’t pay attention to their intel channel.
Any ship in the game that can use a jumpgate can be a scout. However, that being the case, it is generally accepted that interceptors, frigates (preferably faction), vagabonds, minmatar cruisers (cynabal/stabber fleet issue), make good scouts because they all have the following traits (that I am arbitrarily making up because I can)
Most important: Quick lock time Overheated MWD speed of > 4km/s (Vital for gate crashing/burning off a gate/catching people burning away) Working Microphone Ability to use nanite paste/overheat
Also important: Quick align time/quick warp speed (critical for giving chase) Decent tank to hold a point or fast enough to speed tank
That being the case, a regular BC or even a BS can be a scout, but due to their slow nature and slow lock time, they won’t be chasing down any target cruiser and smaller, nor will they be able to find a ratter as easily. What your FC should expect you to be able to do
Know where your end destination is and what your out gate is Know how to use your Directional Scanner (Vital, I’ll write a separate guide for this later possibly) Know what ships you can/cannot tackle/engage, and how to approach them Have a properly fit scouting ship which should include an MWD, a point (scram>disruptor), and a web (highly recommended)
Know how to count the number of hostiles in system when you jump in quickly (This number will be the number in local minus 1 (you) usually. As a corollary it would also help your FC to say how many of them are NEUTRAL, and how many of them are RED/BLUE.
Shamelessly taken from Del’rathi’s bio. (Here’s a quick guide, but you’ll want to use exact numbers please ASAP) Idiots Guide to Hostile Counting: 1 - 1 2 - 2 Many - 3+ Lots - 5+ Craploads - 8+ fuckton - 10+ 'xxx system is hot' - i cant be bothered to count or im shiting my pants runing to the pos HOLY SHIT - break out the caps
------ If you can do all of the above/know how to do all of the above than you are a good scout already. If you want to be a pro scout though read on!
Escape General Settings Show Session change timer (Check it) When you jump into a system you are cloaked for 30 seconds, and you will be unable to activate any mods but you will be able to use your Directional scanner. If you are going to gate crash, please make sure when you get to the gate your session timer is up, otherwise you won’t be able to jump through.
It always helps to know what you can and cannot tackle. If you are in a frigate or interceptor, try not to bother/tackle to following ships unless your fleet is very close behind you, rapier, huginn, saber, curse, pilgrim, caracal, rook, falcon, daredevil/dramiel (unless you’re in one yourself), any mothership/titan, cruor. If these ships are properly flown and fitted, they will most likely get away and/or kill you.
Know that flying straight at a BS that’s 50km or farther away from you is a bad idea.
If you see a bomber uncloak 40km or closer to you, please overheat your MWD and burn towards him for the tackle if you are in a frig or inty.
T3 ships have all types of random fittings, but tackling a loki is probably not a good idea by yourself, but the other three you should be able to hold long enough for your fleet to get to you.
Know how to uncloak ships that cloaked up.
Know your rat wrecks. If you scan wrecks, be able to know immediately whether they are anomaly/plex rats, or the usual belt rats.
Have a scanning tab that works well for you. I personally have 2 scanning tabs. One that shows rat wrecks along with all my other goodies (no pos mods), and one that shows no rat wrecks, but with pos mods and everything else. Everything else being: All ships, moons, planets, stations, sun, TCU.
On October 06 2010 03:53 WiljushkA wrote: around 6.1 bil. seriously though, in the year and a half i played, the value of isk hasnt changed one bit.
better question whats the price of a navy raven?
550 mil or so.
6.1 bil will get you pretty damn far still. You can't buy a mom with it but everything else is up for grabs.
ah that's good I assume a regular raven is still about 70-80mil...still a pretty big profit margin for me then. If I came back I would want to build up enough to start a t2 bpo copying plant. That's assuming I could get a t2 bpo lol.
Since Kizu already started it, I totally feel forced to add my 2 cents on scouting as well.
I agree with most of the stuff he said, that's a pretty solid basis, however I want to emphasize/add some things and put that in some kind of condition which can be put up in the OP.
@Kwark/Dexxus, find a cool place for this in the OP some "guide section" would be cool anyway. Pretty sure it's going to be needed more than once and it shouldn't be buried back here.
The Scout
You feel as if you set destination like ages ago and you stated "system is clear" way too often for your taste. The coms are interupted with random chatter from time to time but your FC allows it to keep morale at a somewhat decent level. To be completely honest you already start to get annoyed with all the random grunts thinking they can talk during your prime time, and you're just waiting for an ideal situation to...
"CHECKCHECKCLEARCOMS", finally, you start to get excited. "34 in local, roughly... all of them red. Armaggeddon, Brutix, Caracal on scan... shitload of POSes tho...", your FC tries to cut you off "k, can you..", "CHECKCHECK Armageddon landing on grid... he warped to the gate, want me to push him?" ... "Go for it, Squad one, jump in and assist. Keep your scanner hot." ... The Armageddon Pilot smells what's going to happen when he sees the gate flashing, he's launching a set of small drones and tries to take the tackler with him. "He's aggro'd but I'm fine.." .. "POINT" is called by someone else "scout drop point, check the next system", "Godfuckingdamnit I want this killmail..." is what you think "On my way" is what you say.
"2 Dominixes on scan before I warped off..." .... "Outgate has a bubble on scan..." ... "It's not dragging from anywhere, stupid fuckers..." ... "Grab the loot, scoop drones" is the sound which makes your killmailwhoring soul happy, at least they finished him before you have to jump out. "Gate is clear I'm jumping..." .. "Fleet align outbound"
"CHECKCHECK hostile fleet on gate, 22 in local, about... 15 total, mostly BCs, some small crap, I'm holding cloak.", - "Fleet warp outbound, give me more infos" ... "4 Hurricanes, 3 Harbingers, 4 Drakes, one Heavy Dictor and 3 ceptors... they're stuck in their own anchored bubble..." "You said nothing about a &!%$@ anchored bubble..." ... "Yeah, sry, I'm about to drop cloak, want me to burn back?" ... "Yeah go ahead and join us once fight starts, Squad 1 and my light dictor jump on contact, everyone else hold."
Your FC is the most important member of the fleet. That's the reason he is usually in some kind of survivable ship in the middle of the gang, giving orders from a safe environment. However, without YOU he'd be deaf and blind. Your are the ears and eyes of him and the whole fleet. Without your input your FC is like a chicken with his head cut off and can't call orders better than any ex-CVA pet fleet commander. Your job is to be calm, precise and focussed. You are used to the fact that you can get out of almost any tough situation by relying on speed and agility. And you enjoy the thrill of not knowing what's beyond the next gate - only thing you know is that it's going to be hot, judging from the maps you just looked at.
What kind of ships are good for this job?
Interceptors. Dramiels. Those are the only viable "real" scouting ships. Nanohacs like a Vagabond, Stabber Fleet Issue or Cynabal can fill the roll as well, assuming their pilot knows what's going to happen and you don't expect big blobs. While there are definitly situations for the "Cloaky Scout" (Recons, Covops) or the "Bait Scout" (BCs, BSs etc.) for the purpose of this guide we're going to stick to the small, fast ships. Each race has one "tackle" (Malediction >> Stiletto >> Ares, >>> Raptor) and one "skirmish" (Crow > Taranis >> Crusader >>> Claw) interceptor. The rating is based on my experience as both FC and scout and what I consider most viable for scouting purposes.
For beginners I recommend tackling interceptors with scram/dis/mwd, since those are easiest to learn and they are quite flexible. However, these fits lack "real" tackle in terms of a web and are usually weak in terms of 1v1-potential.
A scout has exactly three duties: #1 Scout #2 Ability to hold enemies in place #3 Ability to fight off hostile tackle
(To be precise those three points apply to ANY frigate or nanohac pilot, you never know when you're the one needed to perform at least one of these duties when you fly those ships.)
While #1 is crucial, #2 (meaning web/scram) is a little bit more advanced #3 is where the really awesome scouts in this game shine. For #1 I recommend Stiletto > Ares, for #3 Malediction > Crow. If you do not have proper experience with flying interceptors vs other interceptors, especially in fleetfights, DO NOT GET CAUGHT FIGHTING THEM. After all, you're important. Important people are allowed to chicken out when their ship is at stake. Apart from that go out and solo, it's much easier to pick off stupid scouts in front of their fleet than you might think.
For fittings: Never use nano's, most standard way to fit is Overdrive Injector, DCU, Damage Mod. As long as you're a newb at this you can drop the damage mod for another overdrive and forget about shiny weapons.
So... how does this scouting thing work exactly?
Your FC provided you with a destination and has given you a simple advice on how he wants you to scout. The most common one is:
"Stay one jump ahead" .. Means you have to start guessing how long it's going to take for the fleet to jump into the system you are currently in. In the ideal case you call out what's in the system after that BEFORE the FC calls the jump order for the fleet. System order is A -> B -> C
Fleet is in A, you are in B, holding on the outgate. FC calls the "Jumpjump" and you fucked up, that's the moment you jump into C. Ideal case would be you report what's going on in C before the FC calls for the jump into B so he can adjust his orders based on your report. If it's really important that you're that one jump ahead a FC will usually wait with calling the jump or yell at you. =P
If in doubt, just ask your FC what exactly he wants from you. "Want me to hold till you call jump for the fleet?" is all you need to know.
You jump into a system, what do you do in which order?
WHENEVER YOU HAVE TO REPORT SOMETHING, MAKE SURE PEOPLE WILL HEAR YOU. If someone else is talking at the moment, use a "checkcheck" "clear coms" or "SHUTUP", depending on the situation. Personally I'm used to the "checkcheck" in front of most scout reports, simply because that way it sounds more important and people who were just hitting their PTT button can shutup in time without pwning what you're about to say.
#1 - Local count. State amount of reds, neutrals, blues and other important things (e.g. a fleetmember or an outlaw). If it's a shitload of people, it's still your damn job to just read off the damn number off your local chat. If you have to make estimates, say so.
While you are doing this you spam your scanner at max range for ships around.
Example: "85 in local about...(scrolling through) half of them red, rest neutral, like 4 blues or so."
#2 - Gate status. What's going on at the gate? If it's clear, say so. If there's a shitload of people there, don't say so. Say "Hostile fleet on gate, 30+, BC heavy, bubbles up." ... Make sure to check their distance from the gate, make sure to call out shiptypes whenever possible. "Armageddon Brutix Caracal Falcon on gate, falcon and caracal about 60km off, other stuff on gate." is an information that can be said within about 5 seconds and gives your FC an EXACT image of what's going on. Once again, that's your job.
Use your brain. 95% of the time your job is just to observe and pass on those observations. In the other 5% you are allowed to make decision instead of the FC (note: Know your FC, some will kick you in the face for that, others will love you). If your FC is one of those who trust your judgment abilities, maybe because you're an FC as well and you shout out "Hostile fleet on gate, get clear asap" that's completely fine.
#3 Scanner Status
What's on your scanner? Shiptypes? If it's a shitload, again, give a general information. "Raven, Drake on Scan" is fine. "About 40 battleships on scan" is fine. "There is some stuff on scan" is not. Make sure to use your brain in this part and call out POSes or don't call unlikely stuff. Selfnamed ships with lots of POSes on scan aren't worth looking for e.g. ... 5 T1 Frigates named "Cyno" aren't either. Most FCs will tell you if some kind of information was useless, but it's better to call out too much than not enough.
#4 What you are going to do next or asking for orders
If you are going to look for ratters, tell your FC. He will make the fleet hold, or tell you to forget about it and push forward. If your session-change timer is about to run out and you have to either burn back or burn away, tell your FC. If you decide that the lonely raven on scan is most likely at one of the 20 POSes on scan, tell your FC and tell him that you're warping outgate.
Whenever possible, stick to that exact order to avoid confusion and Q&A on coms. Wrong: "Some people in local, raven here." "How many? How far is it off? What's on scan?" "Uhh... let me see.... 45 total.... the raven is like.. hmm.. I think he's sitting on the gate..." "WHATS ON SCAN!?!?!" "Calm down, stop yelling like this, just a dominix" "...."
Right: "System clear, warping outbound." "14 hostiles in local, gate is clear scan is... clear, I'll check a beltcluster out of scanrange." "8 in local, raven and geddon on gate... I think they're about to jump.. GEDDON ALIGNING OUT want me to tackle?" "Local at 54, small fleet on scan... mostly BCs.... they scan towards the... hed-gp gate.... Brutixbrutix armageddon 5 drakes loki dominix lachesis, want me to get a visual?" "Hostile BS fleet on gate, 45 in local all of them sitting here. What do you want me to do?"
If it's a damn fleet sitting there, call that out before the local count. If it's something to gank, call local count first.
In the ideal case scout and FC are a team that knows how to work together. Especially during fights or when you are about to engage it's quite normal that the scout(s) and the FC cut each other off because they know what they have to say right now is more important than anything else. Use your own judgement here and try and learn from other scouts and your FCs.
While the jobs I'm going to list now are not your PRIMARY duties almost every FC you're flying with will appreciate if you are adding those to your repertoire.
-Awareness of your surroundings. Have a map open, maybe a printed out ombeymap, maybe dotlan on a second screen. Be aware of the surrounding systems, know where people are likely to rat and where they have stations. During fights be aware from where reinforcements might come and keep in mind which the most likely escape routes might be in case shit hits the fan. It helps so much if a scout/FC can call gates for 2-3 jumps before typing and setting a new destination if things get rough.
-Keep your scanner hot at all times and keep an eye on local. While the FC and other fleetmembers should do this, too, you're usually one of the best for this job. Note new stuff on scan, keep an eye on local count, always use your directional scanner as quick as possible to find out where stuff is going. Getting good with the directional is key to being a valued scout.
-Know what you can and can't do, but trust your FC. He sends you to tackle a vagabond or huginn? Tell him that you will most likely die doing it. If he insists, do it. It's his job to look at the big picture, not yours. I once had a 20 second argument with a scout I sent to tackle a rapier on gate because I had a logistics positioned on the other side of the gate I knew the scout was going to be fine. He first refused to tackle, then asked the logistics to confirm that he's on the other side. Just don't pull that kind of crap. If your FC was a complete fucktard, tell him after the op, not during it.
You have no clue if you can pull all that off? Either tell that your FC before the op and make sure to also tell that you REALLY want to give this a try, or get some practice while soloing. Soloing in interceptors is a great way of PvP and of getting used to stuff like scanning and getting a feel for tough situations where you have to be focussed under stress. And yes, these are traits people who play SC have anyway, so you guys are off to an easy start.
EPT
Still was fun tho and maybe I've learned something new again.
