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swimming is competitive, but nowhere near as competitive as running. it costs a lot of $$$ to be able to train competitively in swimming so the number of people who enter the sport is limited. you need expert stroke teachers, and constant access to high quality pools + equipment to become an elite swimmer.
as opposed to running, where you need to be born with 2 feet.
what phelps did is amazing, but it is simply ridiculous to even think that his accomplish "dwarfs" those of the greatest track & field legends.
with as little bias as possible, I can confidently say that track events are the most competitive sporting events in the world today. more competitive than soccer, basketball, swimming, or anything else.
this is due to the simple fact that any and all human beings are eligible to compete. running requires less "skill" and involves less luck than any other sport. it is a simple test of willpower and physical ability. you can argue that running form is a "skill," but any competant running coach will tell you to draw from your natural stride. there is no money or location barrier in running. elite runners have come from every part of the world (even china has produced world record runners). the greatest distance runner of all time (haile gebrselassie) came out of a fucking tribal village, and trained his endurance as a child by running to school every day (a 12+ mile round trip).
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Track started the fucking Olympics.
It is more important. Deal with it.
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haha phelps is clearly not the "best" athlete ever thats for sure even with all his counts and stuff but I would just agree he is the best olympian ever to have won more gold medals period. The best athelete should only be separated on the basis of which category of sports you play in and not just sports overall. But nothing is more important than another sport i.e blackJack saying that track started the olympics so its more important...what the hell
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All sports are important, it's the amount of dominant success that labels a person "greatest". Look at Ali in boxing, his dominant boxing career achieved sucess. I can mention many other people but it's more important to acknowledge their brutal sucess compared to others. Michael Phelps clearly blow everyone out of the water and broke many records while doing so.
Edit: it's the sport that they excel at, and not in general with other sport comparing one another. Michael Phelps greastest swimmer ever.
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OMFG greatest images ever
LOL
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he is a mutant and should be banned from the olympics
has anyone checked him for gills yet?!
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On August 18 2008 17:31 mindspike wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2008 15:59 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 18 2008 15:55 Mynock wrote:
Besides, I never got it why there have to be differentiations by strokes anyway. If you're a swimmer, all you have to do is get from point A to point B in fastest way possible. What stroke you choose to accomplish this is up to you.
For a comparison, imagine running having 4 different steps involved. Jumping on one leg, fast run, crawl on knees, and the - even now present, ridiculous event - walking -_-
It's clearly bullshit. As is baseball, but that's another story. ahh, swimming ignorance. Why not just have one track event, point A to B and be done with it as well? What's with all this running, hurdling, steeple racing nonsense?! You're oversimplifying it so much that it makes it sound like swimming and track should be just freestyle and sprints. In the olympics, yes, there shouldn't be hurdling... The point is that you shouldn't have 30-40 gold medal events in track and swimming and then have 2 or 3 for a whole bunch of other sports. Track and swimming aren't 10x more important.
Orrrrr you just shouldn't rank by medal count, since no matter what, some will mean much more than others.
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On August 19 2008 03:47 Gaetele wrote:
rofl@ 5dollar footlong
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On August 18 2008 03:42 Mynock wrote:
The point stands however - if the swimmers had 24 events during the Olympiad, Phelps would have a chance to win all of them, merely because he is a great swimmer.
I don't really agree with this line of thinking. How many swimmers do you see competing in multiple strokes? Fact is that most specialize in one (maybe over a couple of different distances) and stick to those races. My way of thinking is that Phelps being the best in the world at so many swimming disciplines only makes him that much more impressive of an athlete. I know, there are tons of swimming events and all that. But most people considered great swimmers win like 2 medals because they're backstroke specialists, or spring specialists, or distance specialists, etc.
It's not the best comparison, but maybe we can look at it as if a sprinter ran the 100, the 200, the relays, and also did 'different' sprint types such as hurdles. I dunno, bad comparison but I'm sure you see what I'm trying to say.
They have the possibility of winning more medals, but no one has ever done it until now. That has to mean something =P
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When Sullivan broke the 50m record I created topic because I was suspicious of doping.
Well, now I'm just fucking convinced that something not-technique-related improving their speeds *A LOT*. Probably that LZR cloth + x + y + z. Because its virtually impossible that in only 3 years all the top 50m swimmers can swim under a record that lasted for 16 fucking years.
It was like almost no one could swim under 21'90 until 2006. Then, after 2006, Sullivan swimmed the distance at below 21'60, and after that. MANY OTHERS swimmers did too. I can't just believe its technique improving. During many many years the top of the top swimmed at 22'00 or 21'80ish. Now in just acouple years 22'00 became a really really bad time, you cant ever dream about getting a medal with that.
Its like if all the top100m racers started running 9'50 all out of a sudden, sick.
btw, Michael Phelps rock, he is a legend, he is the best and most representative swimmer of all time. We are just not very aware of that because he just did it in front of our eyes. We will realize how fucking bizarre it is when we see the top swimmer of the olympics winning 3 golds and 1 bronze.
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those who say Phelps is the best athlete of all time have a HUGE point. He doesnt lose since 2003. He has dominated all his 'single' events for 5 years now. If you take a look at 200m butterfly, he doesnt lose that since 2001. Swimming is not just the olympics, every two years Phelps swims at the world championships and he doesnt lose there too.
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On August 18 2008 16:10 Mynock wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2008 15:59 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 18 2008 15:55 Mynock wrote:
Besides, I never got it why there have to be differentiations by strokes anyway. If you're a swimmer, all you have to do is get from point A to point B in fastest way possible. What stroke you choose to accomplish this is up to you.
For a comparison, imagine running having 4 different steps involved. Jumping on one leg, fast run, crawl on knees, and the - even now present, ridiculous event - walking -_-
It's clearly bullshit. As is baseball, but that's another story. ahh, swimming ignorance. Why not just have one track event, point A to B and be done with it as well? What's with all this running, hurdling, steeple racing nonsense?! You're oversimplifying it so much that it makes it sound like swimming and track should be just freestyle and sprints. Yeah, what about it? Or are you suggesting there should be obstacles in swimming? Why not indeed. Why not also add swimming-shooting? Swimming relay-obstacle-shooting? Everything men-women of course. Yeah, track could do with simplifying as well, but no other events need it as much as swimming.
DUNE ARGUMENT!
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On August 19 2008 03:47 Gaetele wrote:
lol, that's way longer than a foot
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4492 Posts
On August 19 2008 08:08 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2008 16:10 Mynock wrote:On August 18 2008 15:59 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 18 2008 15:55 Mynock wrote:
Besides, I never got it why there have to be differentiations by strokes anyway. If you're a swimmer, all you have to do is get from point A to point B in fastest way possible. What stroke you choose to accomplish this is up to you.
For a comparison, imagine running having 4 different steps involved. Jumping on one leg, fast run, crawl on knees, and the - even now present, ridiculous event - walking -_-
It's clearly bullshit. As is baseball, but that's another story. ahh, swimming ignorance. Why not just have one track event, point A to B and be done with it as well? What's with all this running, hurdling, steeple racing nonsense?! You're oversimplifying it so much that it makes it sound like swimming and track should be just freestyle and sprints. Yeah, what about it? Or are you suggesting there should be obstacles in swimming? Why not indeed. Why not also add swimming-shooting? Swimming relay-obstacle-shooting? Everything men-women of course. Yeah, track could do with simplifying as well, but no other events need it as much as swimming. DUNE ARGUMENT!
Uhh, no. The Dune argument would be a suggestion to return to the 1896 Olympics, with 9 events (Athletics, Cycling, Fencing, Gymnastics, Shooting, Swimming, Tennis, Weightlifting, Wrestling), or better yet, to the first Ancient Olympics, with 1 single event of sprint.
However, what I'm saying is, some sporting events really do need to get a boot, and they will (no wonder there will be no more baseball and softball at the Olympics starting 2012). But more have to go, and other means have to be implemented in order to make the Olympics less of a commercial venue, and more of a sports competition.
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Braavos36400 Posts
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Mensrea, do you do anything competitive? The delineations of 50 meters, 100 meters, 200 meter etc events help us quantify individual athletic abilities and distinguish the absolute best at a given, predetermined set of parameters - just like any sport. Swimming different strokes at 50 meters is no less ridiculous than bouncing a brown ball on a hardwood court with 9 other people trying to aim at a net. Its just the nature of the game.
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Actually I had an idea:
Why not have a swimming version of a decathalon? The "ultimate swimmer" category could be decided pretty easily.
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On August 19 2008 09:05 Hot_Bid wrote:
whats a "dune argument"
i think it's the "simpler is better" argument, back to the basics
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On August 19 2008 09:24 fig_newbie wrote:
Actually I had an idea:
Why not have a swimming version of a decathalon? The "ultimate swimmer" category could be decided pretty easily.
They have medleys...
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Poeta
Peru278 Posts
Firts win of Michael Phelps
Regarts 
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3405/n69694656212580323313xu7.jpg)
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