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On December 13 2010 06:32 n00bination wrote:
Personally, I feel that Deus Ex 1 has terribly outdated mechanics. Just played through it again last month after several years of it collecting dust, and boy oh boy was it an absolute chore. Were it not for me wanting to see how several of my more psychotic decisions played out in the world around me, I would not have made it through the game. I mean, until I got the higher levels of augmentations, I didn't feel very strong at all. Any shootout was just straight suicide, and stealth killing was the most tedious thing I've ever come across.
So forgive me if I say that I am all for the new gameplay mechanics that involve pressing a button to kill a grunt. So long as they don't give you the ability to jump into a room and blow apart 5 guards at once right from the get-go, I'm ok with whatever modern liberties they take with the gameplay. Besides, the beauty of the first game was not in the game mechanics, but in the way your choices were reflected in the world around you. That's my take.
tl dr; i cant think in a game and hate facing challenges
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On February 04 2011 05:00 WiljushkA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:32 n00bination wrote:
Personally, I feel that Deus Ex 1 has terribly outdated mechanics. Just played through it again last month after several years of it collecting dust, and boy oh boy was it an absolute chore. Were it not for me wanting to see how several of my more psychotic decisions played out in the world around me, I would not have made it through the game. I mean, until I got the higher levels of augmentations, I didn't feel very strong at all. Any shootout was just straight suicide, and stealth killing was the most tedious thing I've ever come across.
So forgive me if I say that I am all for the new gameplay mechanics that involve pressing a button to kill a grunt. So long as they don't give you the ability to jump into a room and blow apart 5 guards at once right from the get-go, I'm ok with whatever modern liberties they take with the gameplay. Besides, the beauty of the first game was not in the game mechanics, but in the way your choices were reflected in the world around you. That's my take. tl dr; i cant think in a game and hate facing challenges
I don't cling to nonessential, dated gameplay elements. Maybe if you were more understanding you could come up with a better response instead of personally trying to insult me.
Prick
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On February 04 2011 09:24 n00bination wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 05:00 WiljushkA wrote:On December 13 2010 06:32 n00bination wrote:
Personally, I feel that Deus Ex 1 has terribly outdated mechanics. Just played through it again last month after several years of it collecting dust, and boy oh boy was it an absolute chore. Were it not for me wanting to see how several of my more psychotic decisions played out in the world around me, I would not have made it through the game. I mean, until I got the higher levels of augmentations, I didn't feel very strong at all. Any shootout was just straight suicide, and stealth killing was the most tedious thing I've ever come across.
So forgive me if I say that I am all for the new gameplay mechanics that involve pressing a button to kill a grunt. So long as they don't give you the ability to jump into a room and blow apart 5 guards at once right from the get-go, I'm ok with whatever modern liberties they take with the gameplay. Besides, the beauty of the first game was not in the game mechanics, but in the way your choices were reflected in the world around you. That's my take. tl dr; i cant think in a game and hate facing challenges I don't cling to nonessential, dated gameplay elements. Maybe if you were more understanding you could come up with a better response instead of personally trying to insult me. Prick
What is "dated" in Deus Ex ?
You just seem to be another console gamer craving for QTE and third person covers lol.
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Oh dear, I don't want to flame but srsly...that's one of the most depressing views of what gaming should be I've ever read o.O
Deus Ex's gameplay is still as fresh as ever. There are many games that still need to learn some of its lessons.
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On February 04 2011 09:27 Boblion wrote:
What is "dated" in Deus Ex ?
You just to be another console gamer craving for QTE and third person covers lol.
How about shoddy AI? Or nonsensical hitboxes? I don't need to mention graphics, do I?
But my biggest issue with the game was the complete inability to tackle any fight head on unless you were in a fortified position with a GEP gun and plenty of ammo, and all the enemies coming through a chokepoint (Paul's apartment and the VersaLife Building).
For all the praise this game gets for "letting you play it how you want", there's only one real way to approach combat without getting turned into swiss cheese: stealth, which became absolutely tedious after the nineteenth-thousand guard you render unconscious with a baton.
Was it a good game? Yes, revolutionary even. But that doesn't mean that the gameplay elements didn't completely fail to deliver any sort of satisfactory combat experience. It just means that the rest of the game was so phenomenal that the games flaws can be forgiven by most.
And no, I'm not a console gamer. Last console I had was a PS2. So don't give me crap about how I'm a console fanboy.
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On the hardest difficulty I can still happily play long range rifle, close range shotgun, melee, headshot pistol, grenades/ demolition, flamers etc, rinsing people with close range assault rifle. You don't need any stealth if you don't want it. I have done many assault playthroughs.
Your other points...who gives a shit. No games have even remotely realistic AI. Graphics, who gives a fucking shit. All that matters is the godliness of the game. Hitboxes?? Come on o.O who cares.
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On February 04 2011 09:40 n00bination wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 09:27 Boblion wrote:
What is "dated" in Deus Ex ?
You just to be another console gamer craving for QTE and third person covers lol. How about shoddy AI? Or nonsensical hitboxes? I don't need to mention graphics, do I? But my biggest issue with the game was the complete inability to tackle any fight head on unless you were in a fortified position with a GEP gun and plenty of ammo, and all the enemies coming through a chokepoint (Paul's apartment and the VersaLife Building). For all the praise this game gets for "letting you play it how you want", there's only one real way to approach combat without getting turned into swiss cheese: stealth, which became absolutely tedious after the nineteenth-thousand guard you render unconscious with a baton. Was it a good game? Yes, revolutionary even. But that doesn't mean that the gameplay elements didn't completely fail to deliver any sort of satisfactory combat experience. It just means that the rest of the game was so phenomenal that the games flaws can be forgiven by most. And no, I'm not a console gamer. Last console I had was a PS2. So don't give me crap about how I'm a console fanboy.
Except a runspeed/healing/strength build with the Dragon's Tooth works pretty fucking well, as well as other shit. I beat the game going rifles. You don't need to mention graphics, because they're basically irrelevant to how good a game is (see, minecraft, dwarf fortress, etc etc). So we're down to bad AI (boo fucking hoo, current games have bad AI, and Deus Ex wasn't that bad in the grand scheme of things) and hitboxes(really? This is a big enough issue for you to harp on? Ok...)
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On February 04 2011 09:47 sc4k wrote:
On the hardest difficulty I can still happily play long range rifle, close range shotgun, melee, headshot pistol, grenades/ demolition, flamers etc, rinsing people with close range assault rifle. You don't need any stealth if you don't want it. I have done many assault playthroughs.
Your other points...who gives a shit. No games have even remotely realistic AI. Graphics, who gives a fucking shit. All that matters is the godliness of the game. Hitboxes?? Come on o.O who cares.
You know what? I care, and I bet there's plenty of people like me out there.
But I guess it's pointless to try to explain where I'm coming from to you guys. We have different opinions on the game, and I'll leave it at that.
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On February 04 2011 09:47 sc4k wrote:
On the hardest difficulty I can still happily play long range rifle, close range shotgun, melee, headshot pistol, grenades/ demolition, flamers etc, rinsing people with close range assault rifle. You don't need any stealth if you don't want it. I have done many assault playthroughs.
Your other points...who gives a shit. No games have even remotely realistic AI. Graphics, who gives a fucking shit. All that matters is the godliness of the game. Hitboxes?? Come on o.O who cares.
Why wouldn't you give a shit about graphics? If you don't (which I'm skeptical) you're part of a small minority, or there would never have been the race for better console hardware for example.
People think it's "cool" to not care about graphics, as if caring makes them shallow. The truth is bad/outdated graphics removes enjoyment/immersion from a game, and if for you it really doesn't good for you I guess, means you'll never have to buy new console, or update your graphics card.
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On February 04 2011 10:21 HobbesPT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 09:47 sc4k wrote:
On the hardest difficulty I can still happily play long range rifle, close range shotgun, melee, headshot pistol, grenades/ demolition, flamers etc, rinsing people with close range assault rifle. You don't need any stealth if you don't want it. I have done many assault playthroughs.
Your other points...who gives a shit. No games have even remotely realistic AI. Graphics, who gives a fucking shit. All that matters is the godliness of the game. Hitboxes?? Come on o.O who cares. Why wouldn't you give a shit about graphics? If you don't (which I'm skeptical) you're part of a small minority, or there would never have been the race for better console hardware for example. People think it's "cool" to not care about graphics, as if caring makes them shallow. The truth is bad/outdated graphics removes enjoyment/immersion from a game, and if for you it really doesn't good for you I guess, means you'll never have to buy new console, or update your graphics card.
It completely depends on the game. A game like Civilization doesn't need good graphics. All it needs is a good interface enabling you to get a good overview of the information you want and an ability to easily control what you want. In a game like Oblivion where immersion is key, graphics will improve the experience for the player. But AI, Story, Dialog etc is still more important than the graphics. It completely depends on what the game is trying to bring to the player.
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On February 04 2011 10:21 HobbesPT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 09:47 sc4k wrote:
On the hardest difficulty I can still happily play long range rifle, close range shotgun, melee, headshot pistol, grenades/ demolition, flamers etc, rinsing people with close range assault rifle. You don't need any stealth if you don't want it. I have done many assault playthroughs.
Your other points...who gives a shit. No games have even remotely realistic AI. Graphics, who gives a fucking shit. All that matters is the godliness of the game. Hitboxes?? Come on o.O who cares. Why wouldn't you give a shit about graphics? If you don't (which I'm skeptical) you're part of a small minority, or there would never have been the race for better console hardware for example. People think it's "cool" to not care about graphics, as if caring makes them shallow. The truth is bad/outdated graphics removes enjoyment/immersion from a game, and if for you it really doesn't good for you I guess, means you'll never have to buy new console, or update your graphics card.
There are graphics mods for Deus Ex... and Shifter to remove the glitches...
But the fact of the matter is, a game's greatness doesn't hinge upon graphics. Furthermore, an attack on graphics is basically the last possible resort as it's something no one can change, and is only evident due to a change in time. If I were to complain about FFXIII's graphics right now, I'd look pretty ridiculous. However, I will probably be able to complain about it in some years to come. Has anything about the intrinsic quality of the game changed? No. Therefore, I think graphics is a poor argument to make when talking about how good a game is especially after 10 years it's been out.
The gameplay stuff, well, I mean, JC Denton sure isn't Master Chief, but he's still strong enough to play head-on, firefight style. And using batons, lol. Pistols man, pistols. xD All about the pistol.
Anyway, any new news on DE3? Isn't it supposed to come out this year or something?
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Yeah I don't know what this guy is talking about, I've cleaned Deus Ex with Rifles, Pistols/melee, Pistols/hacking turrets. In fact if you level heavy weapons and abuse gep gun I feel that removes all the fun from the game when you 1 shot bosses. Really if you want a serious challenge you should try to forgo the regeneration augmentation, the games cake once you get that. The only thing that can rape you is explosives.
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On February 04 2011 09:40 n00bination wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 09:27 Boblion wrote:
What is "dated" in Deus Ex ?
You just to be another console gamer craving for QTE and third person covers lol. How about shoddy AI? Or nonsensical hitboxes? I don't need to mention graphics, do I?
So basicly you were talking about "gameplay" and now you are ranting about the UT99 engine, it makes a lot of sense lol. But don't worry the Gfx should be better for the 2011 sequel.
However i don't really know what is the problem with the hitboxes they are kinda okay and you can make headshots. Funny to blame Deus Ex hitboxes when some recent games like Bioshock have no damage localization.
That's the same problem with the AI. I mean okay Deus Ex AI is old but do you really think that Deus Ex 3 will use the same UT99 engine and the same AI ?
No obviously no. But that doesn't really change the problem you are just ranting about the technical limitations of a 1999 video game engine which is really stupid considering that many AAA recent video games still have shitty AI. Kinda pathetic eh.
But let's go on to your next complaint, the "gameplay".
On February 04 2011 09:40 n00bination wrote:
But my biggest issue with the game was the complete inability to tackle any fight head on unless you were in a fortified position with a GEP gun and plenty of ammo, and all the enemies coming through a chokepoint (Paul's apartment and the VersaLife Building).
For all the praise this game gets for "letting you play it how you want", there's only one real way to approach combat without getting turned into swiss cheese: stealth, which became absolutely tedious after the nineteenth-thousand guard you render unconscious with a baton.
Well i don't really know what you are talking about. I usually play in realistic mode and i don't really have any trouble to complete the game with shotgun / pistol / sniper / assault rifle. Maybe you are just bad ?
On February 04 2011 09:40 n00bination wrote:
Was it a good game? Yes, revolutionary even. But that doesn't mean that the gameplay elements didn't completely fail to deliver any sort of satisfactory combat experience.
You haven't named a "gameplay element" failing to deliver yet. Your only point is that the UT99 engine is outdated lol.
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Honestly I'm pretty fond of DX's graphics (and art design). DX isn't some fantastic magical world or some epic diverse space setting, nor is it set on some lush tropical island; DX is a relatable, gritty and un-pretty world very close the present in time. It's not a world that needs spectacular lighting, lush scenery or (god forbid) bloom. Plus, it's always twilight. I would take DX's graphics (and physics) over IW any day.
Personally, I think it's much more important that a game doesn't look stupid (i.e. JRPG's -_-) and that it has appropriate art design rather than a high pixel count. In this sense I'm quite happy with DX.
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To be honest i think that there are some flaws about the mechanics of that game but n00bination have completly missed the real design issues. Instead of blaming the excellent Unreal engine for the poor hitboxes you should undertand that the problem is the "Rpg" mechanics.
Roleplaying is about choices, not experience and stats and i think that upgrading the aim with xp points is annoying. It makes the firearms kinda weak early on and then overpowered when your aim for rifles or pistol is level 4.
I don't mind some recoil or limitations but i think that trading Xp points for better accuracy is dumb and annoying. I think it would be better to give access to better weapons or more mods for the player. When i mean mods i think of scopes, laser, grenade launcher etc... not some +dmg +range non sense ( like the "skill" system ).
There are some mods like that in Deus Ex ( scope and laser ) but sadly the rest is kinda stupid and lazy, +1 to ammo clip, -X to reload etc...
That's roleplaying the wrong way. Mods should give more abilities to the weapons not a small tweak of stats. Aim should be dependant of your ability to use your mouse and of your weapon not of a level X in pistols or rifles.
By the way that's also why the augmentation system is great. When you get an augmentation it is not like leveling in the average Rpg. You don't get more Health points and more mana, you gain more abilities for your character which means that you have even more possibilities to play in a different way and not just rolling everything in the same way just because you have more hp / mana / armor now.
That's why most Crpg are dull and repetitive.
There is also the same kind of problem with "exploring" in Deus Ex and in my opinion it reveals the schizophrenia of the Xp / Skill system. So basicly when you are exploring in Deus Ex and find some "secret" areas you are rewarded with ammo, health pack, informations ( logs, bank / door / computer codes ) sometimes mods or even augs and this is perfectly fine. But the stupid thing is that you also get Xp points for exploring. This is just terrible. Like if fiding all the previous things isn't enough lol. No you need to get some XP !
I would like Deus Ex 3 to ditch the skill / XP system and give more augs / weapons / mods to the player and be a true action Crpg.
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Wow, something I actually disagree with you on Boblion! That's a first. I love the skill system.
Having shot quite a few guns in my times (pistols and shotguns) I can tell you that if you don't have any skill using a weapon you really have a ridiculous shot. You can't hit a target 10 metres away with a pistol. Now obviously, an agent who has been trained will not be a complete noob so surely you should be able to hit enemies properly from the start of the game??
Well of course, you can!!! Because the game allows you to pick skills at the beginning, it means you can control what 'training' JC got...it could have been covert ops or sniper rifle 101 or whatever. If you want, as you know, you can start the game being advanced in a weapon and therefore pretty badass from the beginning. Then as he learns more dimensions so he can cope, he learns to be better with other weapons. I think the skill system is an IMMENSE boon, I think it should be ADDED to not taken away. It makes it way more RPG and awesome to have the system in as well as augmentations. Why would lack of experience prevent you from physically obtaining advanced weapons and pressing the trigger button?
Also, I love getting XP for exploring. And it makes sense, in a warped RPG sort of way...you get rewarded for casing the joint because it shows you have epic finding skills and therefore are a good agent.
Trading XP for accuracy is an AWESOME thing, imo. It also means that you have to specialise in specific weapons, which is completely realistic, seeing as real weapons all have different feelings to them and you have to get used to the way they recoil and feel and even the mentality of using them.
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On February 04 2011 10:21 HobbesPT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 09:47 sc4k wrote:
On the hardest difficulty I can still happily play long range rifle, close range shotgun, melee, headshot pistol, grenades/ demolition, flamers etc, rinsing people with close range assault rifle. You don't need any stealth if you don't want it. I have done many assault playthroughs.
Your other points...who gives a shit. No games have even remotely realistic AI. Graphics, who gives a fucking shit. All that matters is the godliness of the game. Hitboxes?? Come on o.O who cares. Why wouldn't you give a shit about graphics? If you don't (which I'm skeptical) you're part of a small minority, or there would never have been the race for better console hardware for example.
I care 90% about gameplay. Any real gamer does. Any real gamer born before the age of 3d. Nice graphics are lovely and everything, but the atmosphere, immersiveness, gripping plot and great music more than make up for any graphical failings in Deus Ex.
The only time when old games really fail at life is when they cross a border where it's like *this was a real struggle for you to make it in 3d, wasn't it?* otherwise, I judge it by gameplay.
And I really don't find the gameplay in Deus Ex bad. Just like boblion said, look at the god damn hit location!!! It's fucking awesome! There are games coming out RIGHT NOW that don't even bother to have it. I'll take hit location over iffy hitboxes and average AI ANY day of the week.
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I've played Deus Ex around 8 times, always a satisfying game. What's all this hate???
Also, new trailer Out
This game gonna rock
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The fact that some of you would even consider directly comparing Deus Ex to games released 10 years later is a testament to its quality. There are VERY few games that hold up in this regard (Starcraft obviously being one of them).
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EPT
