On December 06 2010 04:08 setzer wrote: The pessimism towards DE3 is pretty warranted given the debacle that was IW. If IW didn't have the DE brand, it would have been well received, but DE is critically acclaimed and the sequel had a lot of expectations riding on it.
The interviews and gameplay videos I have read suggest to me this is a studio that is very conscious of the reception from longtime DE fans and they are aware of the things that made IW a failure, but at the same time is making a game with modern mechanics (cover system).
BTW, the jacket that Adam Jensen wears is fucking sick.
Did you play IW? that wasn't a good game at all. I don't even want to get started on the plot or the bugs or the levels design or the long loading, crappy textures, shared ammo pool, horrible ai, and other "features" of that game.
Deus Ex by all rights should be a dead IP that no studio would want to touch with a ten foot pole. The fact that they're making after so many years tells me that they are fans of the series themselves and that gives me hope. Obviously we're not getting a Deus Ex sequel here in the traditional sense, so like everyone should I'm waiting for the reviews.
YES I played IW. It is only "terrible" in the eyes of people who really compare it to the original because it is nothing like the original. It should have never been made tbh. Crappy textures, horrible ai and bugs were all part of the original game.
Yes but Deus Ex is still probably one of the best games ever made. IW isn't.
On December 06 2010 08:45 setzer wrote: Fans of the orignial didn't like IW becasue it was DIFFERENT and not was not even made for the xbox.
If you ask people why they think it is a great game they will tell you "because of the story", " because it is FPS with stats so it is also an RPG " ( Like if an RPG needs stats lol ) or " Because you get augmentations". Basicly what they are describing is Mass Effect or Fallout 3, not Deus Ex. The reason why Deus Ex is great is because it has a strong plot like a linear game but you still have some freedom without being a complete, dull, bland and stupid open world CRPG.
I would like Deus Ex 3 to expand further this concept. More Lebedev dilemmas, the possibility of a complete "bad" playthrough or things like Paul helping you in the Versalife mission after you have saved him in NY. If Deus Ex 3 has those it will still be an amazing game even if I hate auto heal, the covert system and all the consolization bullshit. However if it is a stat fest with cool augs and dumb quests/factions systems like in the others CRPG it will be mediocre.
Dude, nice post. I see where you coming from, totally agree. Expanding the storyline options to be more like Heavy Rain is always something that intrigues me for any game, but most of all with Deus Ex, which was one of the first games that used the idea to great effect.
Totally agree about everything you say is bullshit about modern gaming too haha. So completely hope the game as a) atmosphere and plot b) pace and a feeling that everything is 'important', c) length!!!! d) keeps away from console retardedness.
But having said that, I am slightly pleased to see the community guy over at deus ex forums who was like 'there are loads of us who have been working on this game as a labour of love for 4 years who completely get why Deus Ex was way better than IW and we love Deus Ex as our best game' or something like that. Gives me some hope :D.
You'll be hard-pressed to find many series that have better sequels than originals. A lot of people consider Half-Life better than HL2, Quake better than Q2, SC better than SC. IW obviously was a letdown to many fans of original.
Well when people say that the original is better than the sequel there are only two explanations possible: 1) Those people are nostalgic an they are wrong. I can find some examples, someone arguing that SF I or even II are better than SF3 : Third Strike. Same could be said about Civ I vs Civ II / III / IV / V or warcraft I vs warcraft II.
2) You can find some REAL reasons and explain why the original game is better and why the sequel is dumbed down / bad / inferior / different. I use the word "different" because it is not always inferior, sometimes it is a complete different game and it is hard to make a direct comparison. Think of warcraft 2 vs warcraft 3 for example. Brutal macro fest with hardcore mechanics vs micro intensive RTS with a slower pace. Deus Ex vs IW belongs here, not because it is different but because it is dumbed down. Bw vs Sc2 too even if i think that Sc2 is a really good game.
I haven't played HL2, Q1 and Q2 so i can't tell for those games.
On December 06 2010 10:13 setzer wrote: The developers never set out to make a better game,
And that's why IW was a failure. If you don't try to make something better it can't be better !
On December 06 2010 10:13 setzer wrote: but even they did I feel the game would still not be accepted.
You are making an assumption here but i will be honest and i give you a point. There will always be a minority of nostalgic people who will not accept that a game better than Deus Ex can be made and those people are idiots. However there are many open minded fans of the original who will change their opinion if Deus Ex 3 is indeed better and they would have also changed their opinion if IW was too. But IW wasn't.
Either way, regardless of how the game turns out to be, from what I have seen it is quite beautiful. I have to give a lot of credit to Eidos Montreal for developing their own engine. So many companies nowadays use 3rd party engines like Unreal 3 ...
The musical score is looking to be a masterpiece as well.
What really worries me is the fact that such a complex game is developed also with consoles in mind. Feels like so few FPS-games are PC-only nowadays. Hoping for the best though.
A lot of people have concerns that Deus Ex 3 is designed with the consoles in mind, but from a business stand point it makes sense. I think someone said that Square Enix wanted the franchise to extend to another 10 years. Which means it better be a profit making title. Being a Deus Ex fan that is awesome to hear, I rather them make more Deus Ex games than none. I want the game to make money so that we can have more of it. Look at IW after that game, it was such a flop that I lost hope in developers even revisiting the franchise. Deus Ex 3 may not be PC hardcore title, but it tries to bring all that was great about PC titles and extends it to consoles. Which in my opinion, the benefits outweighs the drawbacks.
By the way here's a quote from the man himself Warren Spector on Deus Ex 3:
"I've only seen what's been shown at various trade shows – no inside information! – but based on what I've seen, the Eidos Montreal team have done a terrific job capturing the spirit and gameplay ideals of the original. I couldn't be happier or prouder (well, unless I'd made it myself, maybe!). And I sure can't wait to play it – I've never had the chance to play a Deus Ex game where I didn't know all the secrets! That'll be a nice change of pace." Warren Spector
This puts me at easy about how it's going to turn out.
Warren Spector doesn't have more information than us so he can't be overly pessimistic otherwise he will look like an embittered old man and he will have zero chance to work on future Deus Ex titles.
Oh and i have no doubt that Deus Ex 3 will be a huge success, like CoD7 lol. Nowadays it is all about advertising. Buy more ads and the game will sell, doesn't matter if it is good or not. It is like the Hollywood blockbusters.
On December 10 2010 01:44 Boblion wrote: Warren Spector doesn't have more information than us so he can't be overly pessimistic otherwise he will look like an embittered old man and he will have zero chance to work on future Deus Ex titles.
Oh and i have no doubt that Deus Ex 3 will be a huge success, like CoD7 lol. Nowadays it is all about advertising. Buy more ads and the game will sell, doesn't matter if it is good or not. It is like the Hollywood blockbusters.
THere are some games where supreme quality is not compromised by heavy expenditure on Ad campaigns. For example the GTA series, which has never had a bad release and for me has always been 9/10.
I actually can't say I *haven't* enjoyed a CoD game except for CoD 3 to be fair.
Aside from that I basically agree with all the points you're making in this thread lol
On December 10 2010 01:06 viletomato wrote: A lot of people have concerns that Deus Ex 3 is designed with the consoles in mind, but from a business stand point it makes sense. I think someone said that Square Enix wanted the franchise to extend to another 10 years. Which means it better be a profit making title. Being a Deus Ex fan that is awesome to hear, I rather them make more Deus Ex games than none. I want the game to make money so that we can have more of it. Look at IW after that game, it was such a flop that I lost hope in developers even revisiting the franchise. Deus Ex 3 may not be PC hardcore title, but it tries to bring all that was great about PC titles and extends it to consoles. Which in my opinion, the benefits outweighs the drawbacks.
I'm going to have to disagree. I don't mind a Deus Ex sequel that's not better than the original Deus Ex, so long as it's of almost similar levels of quality, meaning not terrible. I don't think anyone really expects any game to realistically surpass Deus Ex anymore, the ship has kind of sailed on that one.
Look at IW for instance - I hear many people make the claim that were it not for the brand, it would be hailed as a good game. That's simply not true. Perhaps by today's standards, but IW was not a good game. Claustrophobic levels, a joke of a morality/choices system, substandard FPS combat and RPG features, and a plot that perhaps the only redeeming part of which was that it was the leftovers of Deus Ex.
The point here is if anyone is going to attempt to make a sequel, they have an obligation to the original - to not tarnish its name. That doesn't mean the sequel has to be as good or even better than the original, but it does mean the sequel can't be console trash with cover shooting and brown and bloom. DE3 here looks like a beautiful game with at least functional gameplay, but if it cant hold a candle to the original in terms of all the stuff that made Deus Ex great, ie player freedom, customization, and of course a highly complex plot that touched on so many concepts unheard of at the time for video games, then it shouldn't go by the Deus Ex name. Slap a different name on it and come up with an original IP, or you're just milking the brand for profit.
To be clear, I'm not saying DE3 is going to be bad or a stain on the brand. I'm saying this attitude of "I would rather have more games of my favorite brand than none" is unhealthy, it encourages brand stagnation and rehashing like we're seeing in force with the Call of Duty series. If you can't do right by a brand, then leave the brand alone, that way it'll go down in time as "that one game/series that was really great" instead of "that one series that started out good and then had a million awful sequels that everyone laughs at now".
On December 10 2010 02:08 Seide wrote: Guess im in the minority, because I loved IW, and thought the 1st one was meh.
Personally I think that IW was a really good game if judged by itself and not as a sequel, the only real gripe I have with it is the buggy physics. But other than that it was quite good. I loved the atmosphere and graphics. The story is good by industry standards imo.
Sure it isn't anywhere near the level of PS:T/DX1 but then again what is? What I can say is I played through the entire game and I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. I can't say the same for any recent Bioware game, whether DO, JE or ME I find them all to be extremely mediocre. I think IW is better than any RPG I've played in years. I think it is kinda like the Witcher, great compared to what actually gets released these days but bad compared to what they can be.
As far as DX3 is concerned I hate everything I've seen about the gameplay because it's so laughably dumbed down and consolized that it makes IW seem like Dwarf Fortress almost But man the graphics, music and the atmosphere are so amazing and really immersive. A shame that like every modern game it will be held down to the ground and trampled by being designed for the lowest common denominator which is some cognitively retarded drunk dude that lies in a sofa and doesn't want to think or experience anything interesting. Yes I'm bitter I know
With all the lighting and Kanji and stuff, the city environment kind of reminds me of Blade Runner though not quite as gloomy. Awesome atmosphere nonetheless, I just hope the gameplay is as solid as the graphics.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://img442.imageshack.us/i/deusexdualwp5.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://img413.imageshack.us/i/deusexdualwp4.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://img268.imageshack.us/i/deusexdualwp3.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://img822.imageshack.us/i/deusexdualwp1.jpg/)
But man the graphics, music and the atmosphere are so amazing and really immersive. A shame that like every modern game it will be held down to the ground and trampled by being designed for the lowest common denominator which is some cognitively retarded drunk dude that lies in a sofa and doesn't want to think or experience anything interesting. Yes I'm bitter I know 
