EPTEssentially Blizzard has adopted an approach where all previous content becomes 100% irrelevant when new content comes out. Compare this to vanilla/TBC where it was the opposite; you pretty much had to follow the same path of progression as everyone else, regardless of when you hit max level.
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Serejai
6007 Posts
Essentially Blizzard has adopted an approach where all previous content becomes 100% irrelevant when new content comes out. Compare this to vanilla/TBC where it was the opposite; you pretty much had to follow the same path of progression as everyone else, regardless of when you hit max level. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On August 30 2014 03:04 Serejai wrote: Well, I've mentioned a few times in this thread that I started a brand new account and went from 1-90 in less than three days, then went from 400 ilvl to 520+ ilvl in 3-6 hours on Timeless Isle. Never stepped foot into a heroic or previous raid tier, and was running SoO normal the same day. Essentially Blizzard has adopted an approach where all previous content becomes 100% irrelevant when new content comes out. Compare this to vanilla/TBC where it was the opposite; you pretty much had to follow the same path of progression as everyone else, regardless of when you hit max level. I think it was trial of the crusader that introduced that garbage, but even then you had to jp farm for enough time to get full tier set. | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On August 30 2014 02:55 bo1b wrote: Also trinkets that fuck around like purified bindings need to go, that shit just will not proc on the opener :\ Tell me about it, i play a Mage... On August 30 2014 03:04 Serejai wrote: Well, I've mentioned a few times in this thread that I started a brand new account and went from 1-90 in less than three days, then went from 400 ilvl to 520+ ilvl in 3-6 hours on Timeless Isle. Never stepped foot into a heroic or previous raid tier, and was running SoO normal the same day. Essentially Blizzard has adopted an approach where all previous content becomes 100% irrelevant when new content comes out. Compare this to vanilla/TBC where it was the opposite; you pretty much had to follow the same path of progression as everyone else, regardless of when you hit max level. Arguably back in the day it was overkill the other way around, as catching up was too hard imo (i personally left my t5 guild, got back when they were running sunwell but i had no way of gearing back up so i went to a more populated server). I think Wotlk hit a decent spot, where you basically had two tiers of raiding still going, one for gearing up along with new heroics and one for actual progression. I'm really sad that model has gone, the biggest reason i havent geared up my alt is i just do not want to run lfr or flex. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On August 30 2014 03:26 Teoita wrote: Tell me about it, i play a Mage... Arguably back in the day it was overkill the other way around, as catching up was too hard imo (i personally left my t5 guild, got back when they were running sunwell but i had no way of gearing back up so i went to a more populated server). I think Wotlk hit a decent spot, where you basically had two tiers of raiding still going, one for gearing up along with new heroics and one for actual progression. I'm really sad that model has gone, the biggest reason i havent geared up my alt is i just do not want to run lfr or flex. I play an aff/demo lock, boomkin and fire mage, and aff locks not getting pbi in the first 10 seconds is like 150k dps loss, or 500k+ if its protectors :\ Good thing about demo is that disregarding doom snapshotting trinket procs aren't so devastating, and that its not so front loaded like aff is. I've said this before, but god I love demo.  | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
On August 30 2014 03:26 Teoita wrote: Tell me about it, i play a Mage... Arguably back in the day it was overkill the other way around, as catching up was too hard imo (i personally left my t5 guild, got back when they were running sunwell but i had no way of gearing back up so i went to a more populated server). I think Wotlk hit a decent spot, where you basically had two tiers of raiding still going, one for gearing up along with new heroics and one for actual progression. I'm really sad that model has gone, the biggest reason i havent geared up my alt is i just do not want to run lfr or flex. Agree. You shouldn't instantly jump to current content, but you shouldn't have to go through six months of progression to catch up, either. Honestly, a good combination would be attunements (removing them was a TERRIBLE idea) that degrade over time. You could make them rep-based and increase the amount of rep that mobs give over time. Example would be if you start when a new patch comes out mobs may give 100 rep per kill in the previous raid, whereas if you start three months later they may give 200 per kill; effectively the later you are in the cycle the less times you'll have to run the previous raid (or content in general) before doing the new stuff. You could scale drop rate as well. This would also solve the problem of there not being anything to do because right now even if you want to run old content you're not going to find a guild that does, so you're stuck with pugs and LFR. Back in the day it wasn't at all uncommon for guilds to run previous tier content because there was usually a benefit to doing so (items didn't double in power each tier so old items were still good, rep was needed, BoEs dropped to fund the gbank, etc). | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
On August 30 2014 03:27 bo1b wrote: I play an aff/demo lock, boomkin and fire mage, and aff locks not getting pbi in the first 10 seconds is like 150k dps loss, or 500k+ if its protectors :\ Good thing about demo is that disregarding doom snapshotting trinket procs aren't so devastating, and that its not so front loaded like aff is. I've said this before, but god I love demo. Moonkin is pretty much the same way. On Heroic Jinrohk if I started the fight normally I wouldn't do much. If I forced my trinket to proc at the start of the fight with the equip "exploit" I would literally do twice the DPS on the first pool. It was the difference between doing 400-500k DPS in the first pool and doing over a million DPS in the first pool, and that damage is incredibly important on a progression fight (our first kill ended with all of us dead, so that extra few million damage I was able to do was literally the difference between a kill and a wipe). | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On August 30 2014 03:58 Serejai wrote: Moonkin is pretty much the same way. On Heroic Jinrohk if I started the fight normally I wouldn't do much. If I forced my trinket to proc at the start of the fight with the equip "exploit" I would literally do twice the DPS on the first pool. It was the difference between doing 400-500k DPS in the first pool and doing over a million DPS in the first pool, and that damage is incredibly important on a progression fight (our first kill ended with all of us dead, so that extra few million damage I was able to do was literally the difference between a kill and a wipe). Yeh, I'm trying to figure out what the most rng depending class is between fire mage, aff lock, boomkin or fury warrior. Tbh the first and last sort of lose there rng as gear gets more stupid while the other two just ramp up exponentially in dps. On another note I hit 1.8 million dps on protectors last wednesday, and felt pretty good about myself till I saw verdisha hit 2.5 almost Though they run 8 aff warlocks lmao, kind of cheating. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
Holy World of Stuncraft Batman. Even if no one is targeting you, odds are you're going to get stunned once and feared twice in every decently sized engagement, and certain classes (especially monks) can stop you from casting until long after you're dead 1v1. That said, the potential for outplays is still there in some situations, and I'm just starting and am admittedly extremely undergeared and very bad at PvP given my 6-7 years off from doing it at all. Still, it's something to do, jury's out on whether it's actually fun. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On August 30 2014 04:08 deth2munkies wrote: I decided that I'm a masochist and retooled my demo offspec to affliction for PvP. Holy World of Stuncraft Batman. Even if no one is targeting you, odds are you're going to get stunned once and feared twice in every decently sized engagement, and certain classes (especially monks) can stop you from casting until long after you're dead 1v1. That said, the potential for outplays is still there in some situations, and I'm just starting and am admittedly extremely undergeared and very bad at PvP given my 6-7 years off from doing it at all. Still, it's something to do, jury's out on whether it's actually fun. Gotta run a really cheesy comp with impswarm glyph + on use trinkets and hope to blow them up every 3 min or so, I hit 2200 or so playing combat rogue demo mistweaver and our strat involved smokebomb + damage basically lol. Also, if demo's well designed for pve it's horribly designed for pvp imo. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22708 Posts
On August 30 2014 04:08 deth2munkies wrote: I decided that I'm a masochist and retooled my demo offspec to affliction for PvP. Holy World of Stuncraft Batman. Even if no one is targeting you, odds are you're going to get stunned once and feared twice in every decently sized engagement, and certain classes (especially monks) can stop you from casting until long after you're dead 1v1. That said, the potential for outplays is still there in some situations, and I'm just starting and am admittedly extremely undergeared and very bad at PvP given my 6-7 years off from doing it at all. Still, it's something to do, jury's out on whether it's actually fun. A fair bit of CC gets removed in WoD for a reason. PvP has gone off the deep end and needs to be redesigned pretty much. | ||
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DCRed
Finland435 Posts
Also in asia with their increased item level, you've locks doing 3.5m dps. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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GranDGranT
Sri Lanka2141 Posts
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AeroGear
Canada652 Posts
On August 30 2014 03:04 Serejai wrote: Well, I've mentioned a few times in this thread that I started a brand new account and went from 1-90 in less than three days, then went from 400 ilvl to 520+ ilvl in 3-6 hours on Timeless Isle. Never stepped foot into a heroic or previous raid tier, and was running SoO normal the same day. Essentially Blizzard has adopted an approach where all previous content becomes 100% irrelevant when new content comes out. Compare this to vanilla/TBC where it was the opposite; you pretty much had to follow the same path of progression as everyone else, regardless of when you hit max level. They do this pretty much every last content patch. Maybe not something as big as timeless isle but a similar mean to gear up quick and catch up on content. Must've been pretty lucky to reach 520+ on timeless isle in 3 hours, let alone 6, considering drops are ilevel 496, burden are'nt that common and celestials is a once a week thing. Anyway, brag along...! Am mostly shocked at the item scaling that happened in MoP, between the moment I left (after first tier) to now. Needless to say getting back into pvp was a corpse run fest, and pve was a slow climb on recount. Slowly working on legendary cloak on my warlock, might bother leveling or gearing alts afterwards but motivation might instead shift to D3 and its new patch! | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
Compared to say the icc days, you'd run a few 5mans, then the icc 5mans+toc, then icc. Content was a lot more varied while gearing up a new character. Same goes for ulduar days, and running naxx/heroics before it. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
On August 30 2014 04:51 AeroGear wrote: They do this pretty much every last content patch. Maybe not something as big as timeless isle but a similar mean to gear up quick and catch up on content. Must've been pretty lucky to reach 520+ on timeless isle in 3 hours, let alone 6, considering drops are ilevel 496, burden are'nt that common and celestials is a once a week thing. Anyway, brag along...! Am mostly shocked at the item scaling that happened in MoP, between the moment I left (after first tier) to now. Needless to say getting back into pvp was a corpse run fest, and pve was a slow climb on recount. Slowly working on legendary cloak on my warlock, might bother leveling or gearing alts afterwards but motivation might instead shift to D3 and its new patch! While it's true they do this every expansion at the end, it's never been as bad as it was in MoP. You're also not the first person to point out my bragging (entire guild shit on me when I got four Burdens within an hour), but at the same time it's not as hard to get them as people make it out to be. Just farm rares and use your token things on the lottery cave. Mix in a few pieces of PvP gear that take an hour or so to get and you're pretty much set for starting SoO. MoP scaling was indeed out of control, and I'm not sure how Blizzard overlooked it. It became obvious there would be issues as soon as Heart of Fear was started. First week doing Mogushan in full heroic gear and I think I was pulling about 40k on Stone Guards. By our third kill of them I was doing 80k, and when we started HoF I was pushing 100-120k on them. Literally tripling the DPS you can do on a boss in a month is just absurd. I think Throne of Thunder was even worse because some of the bosses themselves made the problem worse. Jinrohk's pools, Ji Kun's eggs, Tortos, etc. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On August 30 2014 04:57 Teoita wrote: Catch up mechanisms are fine, but right now timeless takes the place of heroic dungeons, but it's just random mindless farming...then you run lfr soo, then flex soo, then normal soo, then hc soo... Compared to say the icc days, you'd run a few 5mans, then the icc 5mans+toc, then icc. Content was a lot more varied while gearing up a new character. Same goes for ulduar days, and running naxx/heroics before it. Actually, you have to do timeless, then ToT LFR (because you can't earn a good enough weapon/trinkets from timeless to hit the SoO ilvl req), THEN SoO LFR. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
I certainly think going the PvP route is a lot easier, faster, and less stressful than running old LFRs (especially once you factor in how awful players in previous-tier LFRs are). My path of progression when I hit 90 was Timeless Isle > one SoO LFR > first two wings of SoO Flex > normal mode SoO. I only started ToT LFR the next week since it still had my BIS trinket. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On August 30 2014 08:37 Serejai wrote: Not entirely true. SoO LFR only needs 496 ilvl total across all your gear, so one piece of Burden gear and 1-2 pieces of Honor gear are plenty. You could also just have your guild craft you something at this point in the expansion. If you had to have weapon+trinkets and didn't want to abuse the ilvl system, the honor weapon is 522 and only takes a few hours to get, and a few of the PvP trinkets are passable for raiding. I certainly think going the PvP route is a lot easier, faster, and less stressful than running old LFRs (especially once you factor in how awful players in previous-tier LFRs are). My path of progression when I hit 90 was Timeless Isle > one SoO LFR > first two wings of SoO Flex > normal mode SoO. I only started ToT LFR the next week since it still had my BIS trinket. Well yeah, honor route is something I never considered because as I pointed out, yesterday was the first time I PvP'd since the first couple weeks of wrath. | ||
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