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On August 19 2014 03:47 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 02:38 Serejai wrote:On August 19 2014 02:14 Requizen wrote:
How are LFRs? I quit during Cata and was in a raiding guild during that time, so I never did any then. Nowadays, I don't have nearly as much free time as I did back then, but still want to see content. Are the people in LFRs really bad? Is the content way too easy and boring? I still want a challenge but I don't know if I have 3 nights a week to raid + prep time anymore. It's a huge misconception that challenging content requires a lot of time and effort. LFR is definitely not the challenge you're looking for, and you should be able to find a guild that does Heroic raiding and raids less than 4-5 hours a week. It takes about an hour and a half to clear a raid instance once you have it on farm, and since tiers these days only have one raid instead of 2-3 like they used to, that's about two hours a week including prep time. Unless you're looking for a top 3 server guild then there's really no reason to raid more than two nights (four hours) a week. You will honestly spend longer in LFR because of all the "special" players in there (and more often than not one or both tanks seem to be, which further complicates the run). I think you should have no trouble finding a real 10m guild that only raids one or two nights a week. Probably depends on the server you are on. I started again playing a little of WoW when patch 5.4 was released. But all I ever did was LFR raids. Could not get into non-LFR raids because equipment too bad (they expected you to have equip from SoG normal to do SoG normal). Could not get into a guild because only LFR equip and limited time. Stopped playing then. Surely its easier if you know people on the server. But if you dont know anyone because of long absence it can be quite annoying.
550 or occasionally 545 with decent knowledge of the fights is enough to get you into a fresh pug. Easily reached with upgraded flex gear.
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On August 19 2014 11:38 Stancel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 03:47 Redox wrote:On August 19 2014 02:38 Serejai wrote:On August 19 2014 02:14 Requizen wrote:
How are LFRs? I quit during Cata and was in a raiding guild during that time, so I never did any then. Nowadays, I don't have nearly as much free time as I did back then, but still want to see content. Are the people in LFRs really bad? Is the content way too easy and boring? I still want a challenge but I don't know if I have 3 nights a week to raid + prep time anymore. It's a huge misconception that challenging content requires a lot of time and effort. LFR is definitely not the challenge you're looking for, and you should be able to find a guild that does Heroic raiding and raids less than 4-5 hours a week. It takes about an hour and a half to clear a raid instance once you have it on farm, and since tiers these days only have one raid instead of 2-3 like they used to, that's about two hours a week including prep time. Unless you're looking for a top 3 server guild then there's really no reason to raid more than two nights (four hours) a week. You will honestly spend longer in LFR because of all the "special" players in there (and more often than not one or both tanks seem to be, which further complicates the run). I think you should have no trouble finding a real 10m guild that only raids one or two nights a week. Probably depends on the server you are on. I started again playing a little of WoW when patch 5.4 was released. But all I ever did was LFR raids. Could not get into non-LFR raids because equipment too bad (they expected you to have equip from SoG normal to do SoG normal). Could not get into a guild because only LFR equip and limited time. Stopped playing then. Surely its easier if you know people on the server. But if you dont know anyone because of long absence it can be quite annoying. 550 or occasionally 545 with decent knowledge of the fights is enough to get you into a fresh pug. Easily reached with upgraded flex gear.
But the problem is people want gear that's equal to or better than the raid you are trying to get into. Which is beyond stupid and unobtainable without upgrading every single bit of equipment to 4/4 only to replace it the second you get anything else from the new raid.
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as long as you do ordos every week you're okay
my dk had 2p + almost full regular wf offspecs by just spending like 15 minutes on the isle everyweek
after that you just pick and choose flex bosses for rings/trinkets
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On August 19 2014 12:18 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 11:38 Stancel wrote:On August 19 2014 03:47 Redox wrote:On August 19 2014 02:38 Serejai wrote:On August 19 2014 02:14 Requizen wrote:
How are LFRs? I quit during Cata and was in a raiding guild during that time, so I never did any then. Nowadays, I don't have nearly as much free time as I did back then, but still want to see content. Are the people in LFRs really bad? Is the content way too easy and boring? I still want a challenge but I don't know if I have 3 nights a week to raid + prep time anymore. It's a huge misconception that challenging content requires a lot of time and effort. LFR is definitely not the challenge you're looking for, and you should be able to find a guild that does Heroic raiding and raids less than 4-5 hours a week. It takes about an hour and a half to clear a raid instance once you have it on farm, and since tiers these days only have one raid instead of 2-3 like they used to, that's about two hours a week including prep time. Unless you're looking for a top 3 server guild then there's really no reason to raid more than two nights (four hours) a week. You will honestly spend longer in LFR because of all the "special" players in there (and more often than not one or both tanks seem to be, which further complicates the run). I think you should have no trouble finding a real 10m guild that only raids one or two nights a week. Probably depends on the server you are on. I started again playing a little of WoW when patch 5.4 was released. But all I ever did was LFR raids. Could not get into non-LFR raids because equipment too bad (they expected you to have equip from SoG normal to do SoG normal). Could not get into a guild because only LFR equip and limited time. Stopped playing then. Surely its easier if you know people on the server. But if you dont know anyone because of long absence it can be quite annoying. 550 or occasionally 545 with decent knowledge of the fights is enough to get you into a fresh pug. Easily reached with upgraded flex gear. But the problem is people want gear that's equal to or better than the raid you are trying to get into. Which is beyond stupid and unobtainable without upgrading every single bit of equipment to 4/4 only to replace it the second you get anything else from the new raid.
Welcome to pugs. yes its stupid. I saw someone recruiting for a normal mode SoO and asking for 560 ilvl.
That is fully upgraded normal gear to do a normal run....
Pugs are just retarded.
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On August 19 2014 19:55 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 12:18 Zooper31 wrote:On August 19 2014 11:38 Stancel wrote:On August 19 2014 03:47 Redox wrote:On August 19 2014 02:38 Serejai wrote:On August 19 2014 02:14 Requizen wrote:
How are LFRs? I quit during Cata and was in a raiding guild during that time, so I never did any then. Nowadays, I don't have nearly as much free time as I did back then, but still want to see content. Are the people in LFRs really bad? Is the content way too easy and boring? I still want a challenge but I don't know if I have 3 nights a week to raid + prep time anymore. It's a huge misconception that challenging content requires a lot of time and effort. LFR is definitely not the challenge you're looking for, and you should be able to find a guild that does Heroic raiding and raids less than 4-5 hours a week. It takes about an hour and a half to clear a raid instance once you have it on farm, and since tiers these days only have one raid instead of 2-3 like they used to, that's about two hours a week including prep time. Unless you're looking for a top 3 server guild then there's really no reason to raid more than two nights (four hours) a week. You will honestly spend longer in LFR because of all the "special" players in there (and more often than not one or both tanks seem to be, which further complicates the run). I think you should have no trouble finding a real 10m guild that only raids one or two nights a week. Probably depends on the server you are on. I started again playing a little of WoW when patch 5.4 was released. But all I ever did was LFR raids. Could not get into non-LFR raids because equipment too bad (they expected you to have equip from SoG normal to do SoG normal). Could not get into a guild because only LFR equip and limited time. Stopped playing then. Surely its easier if you know people on the server. But if you dont know anyone because of long absence it can be quite annoying. 550 or occasionally 545 with decent knowledge of the fights is enough to get you into a fresh pug. Easily reached with upgraded flex gear. But the problem is people want gear that's equal to or better than the raid you are trying to get into. Which is beyond stupid and unobtainable without upgrading every single bit of equipment to 4/4 only to replace it the second you get anything else from the new raid. Welcome to pugs. yes its stupid. I saw someone recruiting for a normal mode SoO and asking for 560 ilvl. That is fully upgraded normal gear to do a normal run.... Pugs are just retarded.
On barthilas people frequently ask for 570 ilvl to do flex 4
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
Mythic raid testing tonight if anyone has guilds who do the testing and didn't realize.
Should be good fun, will check it out with my guild.
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On August 19 2014 19:55 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 12:18 Zooper31 wrote:On August 19 2014 11:38 Stancel wrote:On August 19 2014 03:47 Redox wrote:On August 19 2014 02:38 Serejai wrote:On August 19 2014 02:14 Requizen wrote:
How are LFRs? I quit during Cata and was in a raiding guild during that time, so I never did any then. Nowadays, I don't have nearly as much free time as I did back then, but still want to see content. Are the people in LFRs really bad? Is the content way too easy and boring? I still want a challenge but I don't know if I have 3 nights a week to raid + prep time anymore. It's a huge misconception that challenging content requires a lot of time and effort. LFR is definitely not the challenge you're looking for, and you should be able to find a guild that does Heroic raiding and raids less than 4-5 hours a week. It takes about an hour and a half to clear a raid instance once you have it on farm, and since tiers these days only have one raid instead of 2-3 like they used to, that's about two hours a week including prep time. Unless you're looking for a top 3 server guild then there's really no reason to raid more than two nights (four hours) a week. You will honestly spend longer in LFR because of all the "special" players in there (and more often than not one or both tanks seem to be, which further complicates the run). I think you should have no trouble finding a real 10m guild that only raids one or two nights a week. Probably depends on the server you are on. I started again playing a little of WoW when patch 5.4 was released. But all I ever did was LFR raids. Could not get into non-LFR raids because equipment too bad (they expected you to have equip from SoG normal to do SoG normal). Could not get into a guild because only LFR equip and limited time. Stopped playing then. Surely its easier if you know people on the server. But if you dont know anyone because of long absence it can be quite annoying. 550 or occasionally 545 with decent knowledge of the fights is enough to get you into a fresh pug. Easily reached with upgraded flex gear. But the problem is people want gear that's equal to or better than the raid you are trying to get into. Which is beyond stupid and unobtainable without upgrading every single bit of equipment to 4/4 only to replace it the second you get anything else from the new raid. Welcome to pugs. yes its stupid. I saw someone recruiting for a normal mode SoO and asking for 560 ilvl. That is fully upgraded normal gear to do a normal run.... Pugs are just retarded.
The best thing is when they finally invite you, you destroy them with your blue/lfr geared alt, and either they still complain about your ilvl and blame the wipes on it or they totally suck your dick. The levels of retardness you can encounter in WoW are over the top, as nowadays everything is accessible to everybody, the proportion of awfully ignorant people that still do raids is enormous.
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On August 19 2014 20:50 Nimix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 19:55 Gorsameth wrote:On August 19 2014 12:18 Zooper31 wrote:On August 19 2014 11:38 Stancel wrote:On August 19 2014 03:47 Redox wrote:On August 19 2014 02:38 Serejai wrote:On August 19 2014 02:14 Requizen wrote:
How are LFRs? I quit during Cata and was in a raiding guild during that time, so I never did any then. Nowadays, I don't have nearly as much free time as I did back then, but still want to see content. Are the people in LFRs really bad? Is the content way too easy and boring? I still want a challenge but I don't know if I have 3 nights a week to raid + prep time anymore. It's a huge misconception that challenging content requires a lot of time and effort. LFR is definitely not the challenge you're looking for, and you should be able to find a guild that does Heroic raiding and raids less than 4-5 hours a week. It takes about an hour and a half to clear a raid instance once you have it on farm, and since tiers these days only have one raid instead of 2-3 like they used to, that's about two hours a week including prep time. Unless you're looking for a top 3 server guild then there's really no reason to raid more than two nights (four hours) a week. You will honestly spend longer in LFR because of all the "special" players in there (and more often than not one or both tanks seem to be, which further complicates the run). I think you should have no trouble finding a real 10m guild that only raids one or two nights a week. Probably depends on the server you are on. I started again playing a little of WoW when patch 5.4 was released. But all I ever did was LFR raids. Could not get into non-LFR raids because equipment too bad (they expected you to have equip from SoG normal to do SoG normal). Could not get into a guild because only LFR equip and limited time. Stopped playing then. Surely its easier if you know people on the server. But if you dont know anyone because of long absence it can be quite annoying. 550 or occasionally 545 with decent knowledge of the fights is enough to get you into a fresh pug. Easily reached with upgraded flex gear. But the problem is people want gear that's equal to or better than the raid you are trying to get into. Which is beyond stupid and unobtainable without upgrading every single bit of equipment to 4/4 only to replace it the second you get anything else from the new raid. Welcome to pugs. yes its stupid. I saw someone recruiting for a normal mode SoO and asking for 560 ilvl. That is fully upgraded normal gear to do a normal run.... Pugs are just retarded. The best thing is when they finally invite you, you destroy them with your blue/lfr geared alt, and either they still complain about your ilvl and blame the wipes on it or they totally suck your dick. The levels of retardness you can encounter in WoW are over the top, as nowadays everything is accessible to everybody, the proportion of awfully ignorant people that still do raids is enormous.
Sure, but it's also easy to get get away from these people, by joining a serious guild.
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On August 19 2014 20:50 Nimix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 19:55 Gorsameth wrote:On August 19 2014 12:18 Zooper31 wrote:On August 19 2014 11:38 Stancel wrote:On August 19 2014 03:47 Redox wrote:On August 19 2014 02:38 Serejai wrote:On August 19 2014 02:14 Requizen wrote:
How are LFRs? I quit during Cata and was in a raiding guild during that time, so I never did any then. Nowadays, I don't have nearly as much free time as I did back then, but still want to see content. Are the people in LFRs really bad? Is the content way too easy and boring? I still want a challenge but I don't know if I have 3 nights a week to raid + prep time anymore. It's a huge misconception that challenging content requires a lot of time and effort. LFR is definitely not the challenge you're looking for, and you should be able to find a guild that does Heroic raiding and raids less than 4-5 hours a week. It takes about an hour and a half to clear a raid instance once you have it on farm, and since tiers these days only have one raid instead of 2-3 like they used to, that's about two hours a week including prep time. Unless you're looking for a top 3 server guild then there's really no reason to raid more than two nights (four hours) a week. You will honestly spend longer in LFR because of all the "special" players in there (and more often than not one or both tanks seem to be, which further complicates the run). I think you should have no trouble finding a real 10m guild that only raids one or two nights a week. Probably depends on the server you are on. I started again playing a little of WoW when patch 5.4 was released. But all I ever did was LFR raids. Could not get into non-LFR raids because equipment too bad (they expected you to have equip from SoG normal to do SoG normal). Could not get into a guild because only LFR equip and limited time. Stopped playing then. Surely its easier if you know people on the server. But if you dont know anyone because of long absence it can be quite annoying. 550 or occasionally 545 with decent knowledge of the fights is enough to get you into a fresh pug. Easily reached with upgraded flex gear. But the problem is people want gear that's equal to or better than the raid you are trying to get into. Which is beyond stupid and unobtainable without upgrading every single bit of equipment to 4/4 only to replace it the second you get anything else from the new raid. Welcome to pugs. yes its stupid. I saw someone recruiting for a normal mode SoO and asking for 560 ilvl. That is fully upgraded normal gear to do a normal run.... Pugs are just retarded. The best thing is when they finally invite you, you destroy them with your blue/lfr geared alt, and either they still complain about your ilvl and blame the wipes on it or they totally suck your dick. The levels of retardness you can encounter in WoW are over the top, as nowadays everything is accessible to everybody, the proportion of awfully ignorant people that still do raids is enormous.
Also the raid leader that is asking for 570+ ilvl will always be in greens/blues. If you ask him why he's only pulling 50k DPS on the bosses he will kick you, but if you don't say anything he will constantly make up excuses for the wipes - such as blaming the tanks or healers, or even the top DPS for not carrying hard enough.
Likewise, if you're ever in this same situation but in a group where the Votekick feature is active (such as, say, a 5-man dungeon with the most brain dead tank or healer possible) and they constantly bitch about wipes so you step up and inform them that they are the reason why the group is wiping, you will be kicked because they are the leader and the other three people are sheep that will always side with whoever has that stupid little crown icon next to their name. Replace "crown icon" with "battleground leader", "raid leader", "different colored text"; they're all interchangeable.
Pugs used to be great but died out at the end of WoTLK. The pugs we have these days are just utter garbage ran by people looking to get carried. These days it's guild or bust.
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Italy12246 Posts
Yeah the main reason for joining a guild for normals vs pugging is really to avoid that kind of stupidity tbh.
Im not sure what you are talking about with Wotlk pugs though Serejai, they used to be terrible as fuck. I remember having one succesfull naxx run out of dozens. Ulduar runs never went past Freya, ToC was a crapshoot on what boss would wipe you, etc. By the time ICC was around i was so disgusted by pugs i stopped joining them out of general principle (this was on Sylvanas EU, so not exactly a small server either).
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Lalalaland34491 Posts
Most of my WoW life was spent in WotLK during which people would bitch about how everything 'died in vanilla/TBC'. It's just funny to see everyone now say 'it died in WotLK'.
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On August 19 2014 22:23 Teoita wrote:
Yeah the main reason for joining a guild for normals vs pugging is really to avoid that kind of stupidity tbh.
Im not sure what you are talking about with Wotlk pugs though Serejai, they used to be terrible as fuck. I remember having one succesfull naxx run out of dozens. Ulduar runs never went past Freya, ToC was a crapshoot on what boss would wipe you, etc. By the time ICC was around i was so disgusted by pugs i stopped joining them out of general principle (this was on Sylvanas EU, so not exactly a small server either).
I'm probably really biased because I ran my own pugs and we actually got server first kills ahead of the hardcore guilds. I also ran weekly GDKP groups which were a massive success, and the tens of thousands of gold flowing in from those was a nice perk. Sadly the playerbase has changed so much that it doesn't seem viable anymore.
I tried running some GDKPs this expansion and it was a massive clusterfuck. Normally with a GDKP (or a pug in general) you have some people that carry and some people that get carried, right? Sounds simple enough, but the problem these days is that even people in 570 ilvl are fucking terrible, so you can't go by ilvl anymore. Heroic raid experience? Can't go by that, either, because there's always 2-3 people in a 10m group being carried; even on heroic. The exception to this is if you manage to find someone who has heroic kills the first week, but then why would that person want to be in your pug? You used to get those people in WoTLK but that's because gold wasn't so easy to come by.
For comparison, my WoTLK GDKP runs would routinely net a few hundred thousand gold per run. Split across ten people, that's a nice chunk of change for two hours of raiding. Fast forward to MoP... everything is so easy to get now that people in GDKP runs don't want to pay much. Trinkets used to go for 100k+ for a single trinket back in Ulduar. MoP trinkets? You're lucky if you can get 10k for one. So, the runs end with like 30-40k in the total pot, and everyone gets under 5k for two hours of raiding. LFR and Flex pretty much killed GDKP raiding entirely, and pug raiding in general to a lesser - but still detrimental - extent.
So yeah, pugging in general isn't really viable these days because there's no real metric to judge how well a player will perform until you actually get to the first boss, in which case you kick them and either a) spend half an hour finding a replacement, or b) the raid disbands. Nothing we currently have (ilvl, achievements) has any relation to the skill of a player, and the metrics we used to have (reputation, accountability) no longer exist since servers no longer have communities like they used to.
I've been in top guilds, bottom guilds, and everything in between... and to this day my favorite raiding was still GDKP runs.
RIP
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On August 19 2014 22:35 Firebolt145 wrote:
Most of my WoW life was spent in WotLK during which people would bitch about how everything 'died in vanilla/TBC'. It's just funny to see everyone now say 'it died in WotLK'.
Well to be fair pugging wasn't really a thing at all in vanilla. It was born in BC because Kara was such a great raid to pug, then died off at the end of WoTLK when LFR started. It had a very short lifetime 
There were occasional pugs at the end of vanilla for AQ10 and ZG as well but they were mostly guild alt runs filling spots.
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What killed pugging was cross server. It used to be that servers had communities, and people developed reputations as good or bad. If you needed extra people, you'd ask a friend's guild if they had an alt/extra person that missed their run. Back in Vanilla/TBC, I had 4-5 of the better tanks on the server on my friend's list so that if I wanted to run a heroic or a pug raid, I'd know who to call.
Blizzard added way too many servers, and now that the population is shrinking dramatically, this is no longer feasible, so crossrealm is a necessary evil, but still, it makes me long for the good old days when people actually got to know each other.
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It was pretty much the same for PvP, too. I wasn't really in a guild during vanilla or the beginning of TBC; I pretty much PvPed all the time, so I had every other decent PvPer on the server on my friends list, plus most of the ones from the other faction on an alt account. We all used to sit in Teamspeak and give each other advice on where groups of players were to gank and whatnot.
I could go farming elementals in Nagrand and some cocky guys from a no-name Alliance guild would show up four or five strong and try to gank me. Literally within three minutes I could have half a dozen Rank 11+ PvPers there with me, plus some from the Alliance side that would just sit there and watch their faction mates get destroyed. We had a mutual respect not to attack them if they were just watching, of course, and that's because you knew the names.
It wasn't at all uncommon for me to start laying into someone before I even looked at the name, then I realize "oh hey, it's so and so!" and immediately just stop DPSing. They would see it was me and not retaliate. We'd both tab out for a moment, hop on a Teamspeak server, and start chatting. That kinda stuff just doesn't happen these days since 90% of the people you encounter out in the world aren't even from your server and you have no real way of knowing anything about them.
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The Garrosh is such a disappointing end expansion boss fight, I wish they did a council fight and had it be Garrosh and the various sha. That would have been cool.
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Thats because cross server + lfr absolutely killed the social aspect of the game, the most fun I ever had was dicking around in vent back in wotlk with people I'd meet in a heroic dungeon.
That's not to say everyone jumped on our guilds vent but still.
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On August 19 2014 22:35 Firebolt145 wrote:
Most of my WoW life was spent in WotLK during which people would bitch about how everything 'died in vanilla/TBC'. It's just funny to see everyone now say 'it died in WotLK'.
Well, that's mostly because they thought it couldn't get worse, they were wrong*
*opinions may differ
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Ehh, having played since vanilla, wrath was hands down the best expansion for me. Had the best intro vid, the best pvp (rip s6, s7, s8 before haste became stupid) the best two raids by far, the best lore and was just the most fun once all the shit was ironed out.
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On August 19 2014 23:30 Meavis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 22:35 Firebolt145 wrote:
Most of my WoW life was spent in WotLK during which people would bitch about how everything 'died in vanilla/TBC'. It's just funny to see everyone now say 'it died in WotLK'. Well, that's mostly because they thought it couldn't get worse, they were wrong* *opinions may differ
In all fairness WoTLK wasn't as awful as a lot of people make it out to be.
On the positive side, Naxxramas was a great raid (even though it was a rehash). Ulduar still hasn't been topped two expansions later, and Icecrown Citadel was above average (except for Gunship). I'll get shit for this but ToC was one of my personal favorite raids as well. If you had a good group with people that knew how to PvP it was incredibly fun and quick, though I understand why most people dislike it because most raid groups didn't know a thing about PvP and the arena fight was a major cock block for them. I got server first clear of ToC with a pug consisting of mostly PvPers, so I'm pretty biased.
The zones were mediocre as a whole, but Dalaran was a pretty nice city. Much better than Shattrah, at least. The lore was also good; probably the best expansion to date in terms of storytelling.
On the other hand... and these are all pretty major issues; WoTLK absolutely destroyed the community and all social aspects of the game with things like phasing and LFR. World PvP essentially died when they decided to move it into Wintergrasp, and the horrible game design of "LETS MAKE A SHIT TON OF BORING ASS DAILY QUESTS" started around the TOC patch with the tournament grounds. There were daily quests previously (all the TBC factions) but they felt - and were - completely optional and were meant to supplement the endgame content; not to actually be it.
So I guess it could go either way. WoTLK was a great expansion for raiding and lore, but probably the worst to date in terms of game design as a whole.
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EPT
