EPTI pretty much despise free throws, unless it's somebody terrible like Shaq or even Duncan every now and then.
NBA Regular Season 2011-2012 - Page 5
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
I pretty much despise free throws, unless it's somebody terrible like Shaq or even Duncan every now and then. | ||
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BlueRoyaL
United States2493 Posts
On December 01 2011 05:58 Ace wrote: I'm in the same boat as you BlueRoyal. I usually show more favor towards guards with handle. As much as I rail on Kobe, and Rose for being overrated I like when they show their slashing game. Wade of course is the greatest slasher of all time so he's my fav. Bonus: Kyle Lowry. Check the move at 23 seconds in. damn that was so sick, hitting that shot from way behind the arc was just the icing on the cake haha | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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ranshaked
United States870 Posts
On December 01 2011 05:21 Ace wrote: It really doesn't matter who the Knicks or Nets get. Miami and Chicago will be the clear top 2 teams in the East. Dwight Howard is also becoming vastly overrated but he's worth max money due to scarcity of the position. Honestly Chris Paul is the real all-time great coming into FA that teams should be dying to get. Wait, overrated? 23ppg, 14.1 rpg 2.3bpg....And probably the best defensive player in the NBA...I didn't realize that is overrated. I hope he stays here in Orlando, I'm finally becoming a magic fan. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
I'd rank him as the #2 or #3 defender in terms of bigs in the NBA. Kevin Garnett has a very good case over him, and in my estimation is the greatest defender of all time. Andrew Bogut has one hell of a case against Dwight also. | ||
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ranshaked
United States870 Posts
On December 01 2011 14:35 Ace wrote: He's elite, but he's no Chris Paul, Kobe(prime), Wade, or Lebron. Reading various forums people are honestly saying Miami would be smart to trade Lebron or Wade for Dwight Howard. That would be monumentally stupid because Dwight isn't on the level of either of them. I'd rank him as the #2 or #3 defender in terms of bigs in the NBA. Kevin Garnett has a very good case over him, and in my estimation is the greatest defender of all time. Andrew Bogut has one hell of a case against Dwight also. You're comparing apples to oranges at that point. There's a reason why dwight has surpassed garnett in defensive skills (garnett is old) Dwight has been labeled as one of the greatest defenders ever. Meanwhile, CP3 stats are this: 16ppg, 10apg 2.5spg. Honestly, Deron Williams is ten times better than cp3. 20ppg and 11apg. Nobody can compare to Dwight right now. He's the best center in the game. He's the Shaq of our age etc. Nobody can defend against dwight, he's too strong and big. He's doing what a center should do, block, score, defend etc. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
EDIT: Dwight is not as versatile as Shaq was. He's scoring, but he's not really a #1 scoring option. He gets points off rebounds and hustle, but you can't run an offense through Howard like you could for Shaq. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13294 Posts
It wouldn't impact on them defensively (you could say it would make them better) and give them better balance in offence. Plus imagine how pissed LBJ would be going back to Cleveland 2.0  I think it's a pretty silly rumour though because there <1% chance of it happening. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13294 Posts
On December 01 2011 14:44 Jibba wrote: Lebron or Wade for Dwight would be a good trade. o.o You don't think Wade/Howard/Bosh is a better playoff combination than Wade/Lebron/Bosh? EDIT: Dwight is not as versatile as Shaq was. He's scoring, but he's not really a #1 scoring option. He gets points off rebounds and hustle, but you can't run an offense through Howard like you could for Shaq. I think he made a really strong leap in his offence last year. I think his playoffs performance showed he can certainly be a reliable #1 option when given that responsibility. When you add the finishing ability of someone like Wade and another low threat in Bosh that will make doubling Dwight near impossible, I think Miami has much better balance to their team. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On December 01 2011 14:44 ranshaked wrote: You're comparing apples to oranges at that point. There's a reason why dwight has surpassed garnett in defensive skills (garnett is old) Dwight has been labeled as one of the greatest defenders ever. Meanwhile, CP3 stats are this: 16ppg, 10apg 2.5spg. Honestly, Deron Williams is ten times better than cp3. 20ppg and 11apg. Nobody can compare to Dwight right now. He's the best center in the game. He's the Shaq of our age etc. Nobody can defend against dwight, he's too strong and big. He's doing what a center should do, block, score, defend etc. Funny how you say KG is old, as he still has one of the best +/- numbers over the last 10 years of anyone. He also finished #2 in DPOY voting last year. So the comparisons are apt. That's nice that Dwight has been labeled one of the greatest defenders ever. Kobe also has 9 All-Defensive 1st Team awards. Doesn't mean it matters more than what actually is going on. Chris Paul's stats are deflated because he was coming off of an injury and most importantly his usage rate was down. However if you want to use stats you should also add in his superb shooting numbers, and gigantic assist% that showed he was responsible for over 50% of his team's offense. Also note that after the All-Star break he started looking like his old self putting up gigantic scoring nights. Either way even if we took his lowballed (worst since his rookie year) 16 and 10 on his fantastic percentages from everywhere you're still looking at the #1 PG in the NBA. As for Deron Williams - I love the guy. I think he's arguably the #2/3/4 PG in the NBA depending on what your definitions are. But to say he is 10 times better than Chris Paul...you're obviously being a fanboy/girl or a troll. He had a great MVP caliber starting off for the year but he cooled down considerably and then got the wrist injury. I think he's also a max money PG because he can play with anyone, but he's not as versatile as Chris Paul and doesn't generate enough steals to even be in comparison on the defensive end. As for Dwight, sure he's the best Center in the game. If you haven't noticed for the last 15 years and arguably even before then, more skilled forwards and guards have come into the league as it has evolved. Calling him the most skilled Center? I guess. Now if you want to compare him to every big in the league which includes PFs then we might have a serious problem. I also find it funny you say no one can defend him and that he's the Shaq of this generation (not even close). Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Kevin Garnett, Kendrick Perkins,Anderson Varajeo and Jason freaking Collins have all shut him down. Dwight's not a dominant offensive player yet and he has a long way to go if you want to put him in the class of Wade, Lebron, Kobe, or Chris Paul. For all the talk about Dwight Howard it's amazing you never hear about any dominant playoff runs from him like the other guys. He actually had a team better than what most superstars get stuck with and he caught a first round exit and didn't look dominant at all. It would be amazing if he learned how to pass. On December 01 2011 14:44 Jibba wrote: Lebron or Wade for Dwight would be a good trade. o.o You don't think Wade/Howard/Bosh is a better playoff combination than Wade/Lebron/Bosh? EDIT: Dwight is not as versatile as Shaq was. He's scoring, but he's not really a #1 scoring option. He gets points off rebounds and hustle, but you can't run an offense through Howard like you could for Shaq. No. No. No. Come on. Miami just went to the FINALS in their first year with that shit roster. Why in the world would you trade Lebron or Wade for a guy that can't do as much as they can offensively or on the perimeter? Miami was already one of the top rebounding teams in the league and top teams at defending the rim. Get rid of Lebron or Wade for what? He isn't better than either and his offense isn't at the level yet to replace what you'll be losing in an all-time great wing player. On December 01 2011 15:01 RowdierBob wrote: You don't think adding Dwight for LBJ would make Miami a better balanced team? It wouldn't impact on them defensively (you could say it would make them better) and give them better balance in offence. Plus imagine how pissed LBJ would be going back to Cleveland 2.0 I think it's a pretty silly rumour though because there <1% chance of it happening. Balance how? Miami's offense is already top tier in the league. In what way is losing Lebron for Dwight Howard going to improve it? Lebron is vastly superior to him offensively in every area and also creates offense. I don't know how that would be better balance. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13294 Posts
There's no real argument that Dwight is a better offensive player--he isn't--but he'd give them a much, much stronger post presence and option than they currently have. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13294 Posts
So truth be told, we'll never know and can theorycraft till the cows come home. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On December 01 2011 15:18 RowdierBob wrote: So truth be told, we'll never know and can theorycraft till the cows come home. Well that's the point. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On December 01 2011 15:16 RowdierBob wrote: Dwight's a strong inside presence--something the Heat lack (to an extent). There's no real argument that Dwight is a better offensive player--he isn't--but he'd give them a much, much stronger post presence and option than they currently have. Why does that matter though? They are already one of the best teams at scoring at the basket. If you bring in Dwight and lose the playmaking and additional scoring from Lebron then why are you doing it? Remember we're not talking about typical superstar players here: this is Lebron and Wade. 2 guys 8 years into their careers that have easy claims to being in the top 20 of All Time and are still in their primes. Here is a different question. Let's assume you're LA and it's 2007. Let's assume no Andrew Bynum is on the way but Pau Gasol is coming next year. You've got everything lined up in terms of a bench, Trevor Ariza starting and 3 point shooters. To make the comparison even more fun, you've got Tracy McGrady from 2003 there also. You get a call from Otis Smith. He says he has the 2011 version of Dwight Howard on the block. He'll give you Dwight Howard straight up if you let go of Kobe Bryant. Do you do it or hang up the phone? On December 01 2011 15:17 Jibba wrote: He can't do as much individually, but Lebron and Wade don't overlap very well on offense. Aside from when Lebron played with the second unit, the Heat were never getting everything out of both players. You'll have more opportunities to exploit double teams with a capable big man and a wing, than two wings. Plus it's a lot easier to draft productive 1-3s than it is 4-5s. There's oddly some uncertainty on defense, but the offense wouldn't suffer like you're thinking. Lebron and Wade worked very, very well together offensively. I don't understand where this idea comes from because the numbers and their success with that terrible roster show it. Of course you can't get EVERYTHING out of both of them together but what you're getting is better than anything the rest of the NBA has. The only other team that can come close to matching that offensive output from 2 stars are OKC. The bolded is also false. It doesn't matter where you are on the court or what position you play - the way to beat a double team is always the same. You pass out of it, you dribble away from it, or you beat the man off the dribble before he can close in. Dwight Howard is not a good passing big man. Miami absolutely killed teams that attempted to double them sans Lebron vs Dallas a few times whereas Wade kept moving as soon as he got the ball and killed everyone. I don't know if drafting productive guards over bigs is relevant here. We're talking about 2 once in a generation players in Lebron and Wade vs an elite player in Dwight. You'll find another Dwight Howard long before you get another Wade or Lebron. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
The offense was most productive when Wade was at 1 or Lebron was at 4, with Jones shooting 3s. Neither of those situations is coming close to utilizing James or Wade efficiently. A relatively huge % of their points was on fast breaks, which was fine during the regular season when they ran over terrible teams, but in the playoffs their offense stopped being so great. The defense is what pulled them through it. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13294 Posts
 I probably wouldn't trade Kobe in the circumstance, but I would trady McGrady for Howard (is this allowed?). But honestly, a lineup of PG, Kobe, Ariza, Pau, Howard would be just as likely to win the title as PG, TMac, Ariza, Pau, Howard. I really don't think either team is significantly worse than the other. TMac and Kobe are/were both awesome players and would work so well with 2011 version Dwight. Do you think either team would be significantly weaker? | ||
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