[wow] Mists of pandaria - Page 97

On October 04 2013 09:19 ObviousOne wrote:
I'm ultra casual (unless you're referring to the derogatory form of the term, then I'm not that, and I find the term repulsive btw) and even I don't want to step foot in LFR much these days.

Kick protection (from being kicked too many times) lets the trolls and griefers get away with murder or go AFK or essentially do whatever they want. Stories of tanks going AFK with 4 hour kick protection. I experienced for myself a hunter pulling all of the trash before the first boss in Heart of Fear in LFR with misdirection and wiping the group several times before his kick protection ran out. For every nightmare, I'm sure there are tens or more of success stories where things just go relatively smoothly and bosses are downed.

Those nightmares are probably becoming more and more frequent given that Flex raiding (combined with Oqueue or OpenRaid) allowed people who don't want to tolerate that garbage an outlet for their casual raiding without the drawbacks of Blizzard-assembled groups. With the power now back in the hands of players for easier-than-normal raiding (my guild fell apart at Ambershaper btw, much like in Wrath my group probably only killed Malygos in EoE once because of the vehicle mechanic) I really feel like LFR is doomed to further fall down the scale of even being close to a raiding experience given the audience that uses/abuses it.



This argument is kind of weird. I mean it's the end of the expansion so getting 496 gear really isn't a big deal considering what is available from normal+ raiding. ToT normal was, what, 522? 496 for most slots is a decent way to gear up an alt if you want to try a new class, but generally people aren't even performing to the standards of their item level given their unfamiliarity with their classes and rotations. Weapons are the major component to every role's effectiveness (weapon damage for tanks, melee, hunters, and spell power for casters) so even with a 496 item in every other slot, it's just lipstick on a pig. So many factors go in to a player's capabilities that gear should generally be the last thing you're worried about, and yet it's a pervasive mindset that gear is somehow the end-all be-all of the game. Not 530 item level? Get the fuck out of my raid! Not 520 item level? Stay the fuck out of my heroic scenario! (Never mind that you only need 480 to queue for it.)

Where exactly do you see an issue with getting "raid geared" (I use this term loosely, timeless pieces are band-aids, let's just be honest here) when generally the people who use these items generally aren't even raiders. Remember, timeless isle had to be made somewhat challenging for even raiders, so everything hits like a truck and has millions of HP. Giving the players that want to explore there the ability to actually succeed in doing so can't honestly be bad, can it?

On October 05 2013 02:49 Ethelis wrote:


That's what kinda bothers me. I mean like, before if somebody had certain gear, you had an idea on how good/bad they were (lets just say, an expected "skill floor," obviously there were exceptions). I agree with the fact that it helps people get their alts on par and see if they like that class better or whatever but it's hell for other reasons imo. I'd find it horrible to have to go through tons of people to recruit for a guild with 0 guiding parameters (obviously there are DPS/healing meters etc, also im not saying gear was THE measuring stick). I think it'd be fine if ilvls went 'normal 5s < LFR < Heroic 5s < Normal raid's etc. and that blizz didn't make easy mode Heroic 5s (WoTLK anyone?). I think it'd keep the casual tier below all together, obviously it's not a super amazing fix but do you kinda get where im headed at?

On October 05 2013 02:49 Ethelis wrote:

No, I don't really get what you mean to be honest. Hasn't it always been this way since I started raiding back in BC? Badge gear as a catch up? Wrath, too? Cata had crafted gear and reputation gear. Mists has crafted, *used to have) reputation up until 5.4, Timeless, valor gear, etc. The most you can really tell about a player anymore based on their gear is how they treat it. Do they gem/enchant it? Is it reforged? Are they meeting their hit / expertise minimums? Is it valor-upgraded? Gear itself outside of the latest/greatest raid gear tells a very short story.

Maybe there's a disconnect here because I don't look at someone's gear to judge them anymore, on account of not having to manually put raids together anymore. The only time I'll inspect someone is if they're fucking up big time or they're doing an impressive enough job that it makes me curious. Healers pulling off sick plays with what I would consider low amounts of health [in an age where the stamina is decided by item level, pretty easy to "feel out" when someone is more or less geared up than you], that's an inspectin'.

I could look at someone in a full set of current tier SoO normal gear today and be like, that's a dedicated raider. Eight weeks from now? How would I know the difference between a dedicated raider and someone who is just persistent enough to put up with pick-up groups? Would it even matter? There's more to a player's story than the armor they wear, I don't think it even begins to tell me much about the player if isn't up to date.

If you looked at my Death Knight when ToT was the current content, you would have rejected him straight away based on his gear I'd bet. That's the same DK topping the damage meter on Lei Shen not because his gear is good, but because he's following the mechanics and killing the Sparks, etc when barely anybody else is. You can't tell I follow the mechanics when my item level is upgraded gear from heroics and a smattering of valor gear. That's the life of a true casual player from my point of view at this point. There is too much content between Heroic Dungeons [463+] and Heroic Raiding [566+] to tell any semblance of a story about a player based on what they are wearing.

So how do you see it?

On October 05 2013 02:49 Ethelis wrote:

No, I don't really get what you mean to be honest. Hasn't it always been this way since I started raiding back in BC? Badge gear as a catch up? Wrath, too? Cata had crafted gear and reputation gear. Mists has crafted, *used to have) reputation up until 5.4, Timeless, valor gear, etc. The most you can really tell about a player anymore based on their gear is how they treat it. Do they gem/enchant it? Is it reforged? Are they meeting their hit / expertise minimums? Is it valor-upgraded? Gear itself outside of the latest/greatest raid gear tells a very short story.

Maybe there's a disconnect here because I don't look at someone's gear to judge them anymore, on account of not having to manually put raids together anymore. The only time I'll inspect someone is if they're fucking up big time or they're doing an impressive enough job that it makes me curious. Healers pulling off sick plays with what I would consider low amounts of health [in an age where the stamina is decided by item level, pretty easy to "feel out" when someone is more or less geared up than you], that's an inspectin'.

I could look at someone in a full set of current tier SoO normal gear today and be like, that's a dedicated raider. Eight weeks from now? How would I know the difference between a dedicated raider and someone who is just persistent enough to put up with pick-up groups? Would it even matter? There's more to a player's story than the armor they wear, I don't think it even begins to tell me much about the player if isn't up to date.

If you looked at my Death Knight when ToT was the current content, you would have rejected him straight away based on his gear I'd bet. That's the same DK topping the damage meter on Lei Shen not because his gear is good, but because he's following the mechanics and killing the Sparks, etc when barely anybody else is. You can't tell I follow the mechanics when my item level is upgraded gear from heroics and a smattering of valor gear. That's the life of a true casual player from my point of view at this point. There is too much content between Heroic Dungeons [463+] and Heroic Raiding [566+] to tell any semblance of a story about a player based on what they are wearing.

So how do you see it?

On October 05 2013 02:49 Ethelis wrote:

No, I don't really get what you mean to be honest. Hasn't it always been this way since I started raiding back in BC? Badge gear as a catch up? Wrath, too? Cata had crafted gear and reputation gear. Mists has crafted, *used to have) reputation up until 5.4, Timeless, valor gear, etc. The most you can really tell about a player anymore based on their gear is how they treat it. Do they gem/enchant it? Is it reforged? Are they meeting their hit / expertise minimums? Is it valor-upgraded? Gear itself outside of the latest/greatest raid gear tells a very short story.

Maybe there's a disconnect here because I don't look at someone's gear to judge them anymore, on account of not having to manually put raids together anymore. The only time I'll inspect someone is if they're fucking up big time or they're doing an impressive enough job that it makes me curious. Healers pulling off sick plays with what I would consider low amounts of health [in an age where the stamina is decided by item level, pretty easy to "feel out" when someone is more or less geared up than you], that's an inspectin'.

I could look at someone in a full set of current tier SoO normal gear today and be like, that's a dedicated raider. Eight weeks from now? How would I know the difference between a dedicated raider and someone who is just persistent enough to put up with pick-up groups? Would it even matter? There's more to a player's story than the armor they wear, I don't think it even begins to tell me much about the player if isn't up to date.

If you looked at my Death Knight when ToT was the current content, you would have rejected him straight away based on his gear I'd bet. That's the same DK topping the damage meter on Lei Shen not because his gear is good, but because he's following the mechanics and killing the Sparks, etc when barely anybody else is. You can't tell I follow the mechanics when my item level is upgraded gear from heroics and a smattering of valor gear. That's the life of a true casual player from my point of view at this point. There is too much content between Heroic Dungeons [463+] and Heroic Raiding [566+] to tell any semblance of a story about a player based on what they are wearing.

So how do you see it?