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The Witcher 2 - Page 43

Forum Index > General Games
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Shagg
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland825 Posts
May 24 2011 14:45 GMT
#841
Any info when patch is hitting this week?
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
Gnosis
Profile Joined December 2008
Scotland912 Posts
May 24 2011 15:05 GMT
#842
On May 24 2011 23:45 Shagg wrote:
Any info when patch is hitting this week?


It was supposed to go live yesterday.
"Reason is flawless, de jure, but reasoners are not, de facto." – Peter Kreeft
jj33
Profile Joined April 2011
802 Posts
May 24 2011 15:25 GMT
#843
On May 24 2011 02:04 -Archangel- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2011 01:12 jj33 wrote:
Hey guys

I have a i5 750, 8 gigs of ram, and a radeon HD 5770.

Will I be able to run on max settings?

Thanks

Hardly. 5770 is a bottleneck in your case. It is a cheaper and much less powerful version of 5850. hell even 4890 is better then 5770



Thanks.

another question, If I buy the nvidia 570, will my i5 750 work fine with it? Or will my cpu bottleneck?

thanks
jj33
Profile Joined April 2011
802 Posts
May 24 2011 15:27 GMT
#844
Bought the game.

I can run it on high settings for the most part, but I turned some options off and I get about 35 to 25 fps depending on where I am.


Game doesn't look that good to me, hence now why I want to upgrade so I can have everything at max.

gentile
Profile Joined August 2007
Switzerland594 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-24 15:41:41
May 24 2011 15:37 GMT
#845
On May 24 2011 22:52 hugman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2011 11:53 Shinobi1982 wrote:
On May 22 2011 09:41 unkkz wrote:
About act 3 + ending:

+ Show Spoiler +
Is there anything to do here?

+ Show Spoiler +
You can craft Caerme at one of the vendors in chapter 3. It had 50-58 dmg + 2 slots for Ysgith rune for additional dmg <3. The Caerme pattern you can get from the 3 gargoyle puzzle chambers.


Chapter 3

+ Show Spoiler +
I did the first gargoyle room puzzle thing just fine, but then I got to the second one and I couldn't get the fucking chest open. I went through and tried EVERY fucking combination and it still wouldn't open, I spent like 40 minutes in that room. Wtf?

Also, I was with Iorveth and I couldn't go near any Temerians, they just attacked me on sight.


well hard to figure out which one you exactly mean..so I give you the solutions for all, bare in mind there are two different solutions on each one depending on some random storyline I guess...there you go

+ Show Spoiler +
left one from maindoor (1) :
Rune at the Wall left to the entrance, Rune at the wall right from the entrance, Rune on the floor left, Rune on the floor near the chest (thats one solution)

Rune on the wall left to the entrance, Rune on the floor left, Rune on the floor near the chest, Rune right from the entrance (thats the second)

left one from maindoor (2):
Rune on the wall right from the entrance, Rune on the floor right to the entrance, Rune on the wall left, Rune on the floor left (solution one)

Rune on the floor left from the entrance, Rune on the wall right, Rune on the floor right, Rune on the wall left (second one)

Amphitheater (3):
Rune on the floor left from the entrance, Rune on the floor right, Rune on the wall left, Rune on the wall right (solution one)

Rune on the floor right from the entrance, Rune on the floor left, Rune on the wall left, Rune on the wall right (second one)

you can figure out yourself which solution route you have and what to do afterwards
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
May 24 2011 15:50 GMT
#846
On May 25 2011 00:25 jj33 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2011 02:04 -Archangel- wrote:
On May 24 2011 01:12 jj33 wrote:
Hey guys

I have a i5 750, 8 gigs of ram, and a radeon HD 5770.

Will I be able to run on max settings?

Thanks

Hardly. 5770 is a bottleneck in your case. It is a cheaper and much less powerful version of 5850. hell even 4890 is better then 5770



Thanks.

another question, If I buy the nvidia 570, will my i5 750 work fine with it? Or will my cpu bottleneck?

thanks

Personally I would always buy an Ati card as they consume less power, heat less and make less noise and they are on par (and some even better) with Nvidia cards of same level.
i5 750 is a really good processor and it will not bottleneck any graphic card out there at the moment.
jj33
Profile Joined April 2011
802 Posts
May 24 2011 15:53 GMT
#847
On May 25 2011 00:50 -Archangel- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2011 00:25 jj33 wrote:
On May 24 2011 02:04 -Archangel- wrote:
On May 24 2011 01:12 jj33 wrote:
Hey guys

I have a i5 750, 8 gigs of ram, and a radeon HD 5770.

Will I be able to run on max settings?

Thanks

Hardly. 5770 is a bottleneck in your case. It is a cheaper and much less powerful version of 5850. hell even 4890 is better then 5770



Thanks.

another question, If I buy the nvidia 570, will my i5 750 work fine with it? Or will my cpu bottleneck?

thanks

Personally I would always buy an Ati card as they consume less power, heat less and make less noise and they are on par (and some even better) with Nvidia cards of same level.
i5 750 is a really good processor and it will not bottleneck any graphic card out there at the moment.



Thank you.

I want nvidia again, because my experience with ATI has been not good. I can't even run sc2 efficiently with the 5770.

What I mean by that is if I have say youtube open, for some reason it bogs down my sc2 to lower then 30 fps. Once I close out that browser with youtube open it goes back up to 50 fps.

I also have problems alt tabbing. It will take 40 years to go back to sc2, so I have to have it on windows mode.

Also, the drivers seem to have some issues with the witcher 2.

I'm not an expert in PC hardware, so I could be missing something, but just from my experience I do not like ATI as much as I like nvidia.
Casta
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark234 Posts
May 24 2011 15:55 GMT
#848
On May 25 2011 00:37 gentile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2011 22:52 hugman wrote:
On May 22 2011 11:53 Shinobi1982 wrote:
On May 22 2011 09:41 unkkz wrote:
About act 3 + ending:

+ Show Spoiler +
Is there anything to do here?

+ Show Spoiler +
You can craft Caerme at one of the vendors in chapter 3. It had 50-58 dmg + 2 slots for Ysgith rune for additional dmg <3. The Caerme pattern you can get from the 3 gargoyle puzzle chambers.


Chapter 3

+ Show Spoiler +
I did the first gargoyle room puzzle thing just fine, but then I got to the second one and I couldn't get the fucking chest open. I went through and tried EVERY fucking combination and it still wouldn't open, I spent like 40 minutes in that room. Wtf?

Also, I was with Iorveth and I couldn't go near any Temerians, they just attacked me on sight.


well hard to figure out which one you exactly mean..so I give you the solutions for all, bare in mind there are two different solutions on each one depending on some random storyline I guess...there you go

+ Show Spoiler +
left one from maindoor (1) :
Rune at the Wall left to the entrance, Rune at the wall right from the entrance, Rune on the floor left, Rune on the floor near the chest (thats one solution)

Rune on the wall left to the entrance, Rune on the floor left, Rune on the floor near the chest, Rune right from the entrance (thats the second)

left one from maindoor (2):
Rune on the wall right from the entrance, Rune on the floor right to the entrance, Rune on the wall left, Rune on the floor left (solution one)

Rune on the floor left from the entrance, Rune on the wall right, Rune on the floor right, Rune on the wall left (second one)

Amphitheater (3):
Rune on the floor left from the entrance, Rune on the floor right, Rune on the wall left, Rune on the wall right (solution one)

Rune on the floor right from the entrance, Rune on the floor left, Rune on the wall left, Rune on the wall right (second one)

you can figure out yourself which solution route you have and what to do afterwards


You can also figure it out yourself by

+ Show Spoiler +
Buying the three books concerning runes from any vendor in the market square.
Kojaimea
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom277 Posts
May 24 2011 15:56 GMT
#849
Does anyone have experience with laptop hardware? My system is almost always bottlenecked by my GPU, an ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650.

Any idea if i will be able to run this? I am uninterested in graphics, I just want to play at a steady frame rate.
The riverbed, dried-up, half full of leaves. Us, listening to a river in the trees.
CryMore
Profile Joined March 2010
United States497 Posts
May 24 2011 16:01 GMT
#850
I can run this on high at 720p with no frame rate issues on a 5770 and an i3. This game is way harder than the first witcher, and gives me somewhat of a demon soul's feel in terms of combat difficulty.
"What wins? 3-base Protoss or 2-base Zerg?" "1-base Terran"
Wesso
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands1245 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-24 16:14:00
May 24 2011 16:12 GMT
#851
On May 25 2011 00:56 Kojaimea wrote:
Does anyone have experience with laptop hardware? My system is almost always bottlenecked by my GPU, an ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650.

Any idea if i will be able to run this? I am uninterested in graphics, I just want to play at a steady frame rate.


I'm pretty sure you can't

On May 25 2011 01:01 xixecal wrote:
I can run this on high at 720p with no frame rate issues on a 5770 and an i3. This game is way harder than the first witcher, and gives me somewhat of a demon soul's feel in terms of combat difficulty.


unfortunately that changes after you've gained some levels, it's not that balanced, I hope for a litlle balance change in the upcoming patch.
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-24 16:17:30
May 24 2011 16:14 GMT
#852
On May 24 2011 06:36 MaxwellE wrote:
A friend linked me this video today, it's pretty hilarious. Basically a console gamer who has never played pc games bought a gaming pc and did a review of Witcher 2. Rage ensues.

(Warning: Prologue spoilers)




I don't really see anything wrong that kid did - at least during his successful attempt at the fight.

Its explained, very poorly, that parrying requires vigor.

Its not explained anywhere what vigor is, and where its shown on the screen until you start using spells/parrying and notice the yellow boxes disappearing.

There isn't any particular visual warning when you take damage from your own exploding Yrden (sp?) trap.

The combat revolves around spamming left-click and rolling away if you hit their shield, and then running away like a pansy to regenerate vigor if Quen goes down (and you have no vigor left).

It's easy to accidentally swing at the wrong target, in a multi-target fight, and screw yourself over (unless you've got a boner for the target-lock function).

All of those things I've experienced within the prologue (particularly that battle) myself.

You can't argue that they did a horrible job of explaining the game's combat mechanics during the prologue. This game isn't Mario where the only buttons you need are left, right and jump and you can pick up the basic game in under 10 seconds. More complex games of the modern generation should do what they can to explain things better.
hugman
Profile Joined June 2009
Sweden4644 Posts
May 24 2011 16:19 GMT
#853
On May 25 2011 00:55 Casta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2011 00:37 gentile wrote:
On May 24 2011 22:52 hugman wrote:
On May 22 2011 11:53 Shinobi1982 wrote:
On May 22 2011 09:41 unkkz wrote:
About act 3 + ending:

+ Show Spoiler +
Is there anything to do here?

+ Show Spoiler +
You can craft Caerme at one of the vendors in chapter 3. It had 50-58 dmg + 2 slots for Ysgith rune for additional dmg <3. The Caerme pattern you can get from the 3 gargoyle puzzle chambers.


Chapter 3

+ Show Spoiler +
I did the first gargoyle room puzzle thing just fine, but then I got to the second one and I couldn't get the fucking chest open. I went through and tried EVERY fucking combination and it still wouldn't open, I spent like 40 minutes in that room. Wtf?

Also, I was with Iorveth and I couldn't go near any Temerians, they just attacked me on sight.


well hard to figure out which one you exactly mean..so I give you the solutions for all, bare in mind there are two different solutions on each one depending on some random storyline I guess...there you go

+ Show Spoiler +
left one from maindoor (1) :
Rune at the Wall left to the entrance, Rune at the wall right from the entrance, Rune on the floor left, Rune on the floor near the chest (thats one solution)

Rune on the wall left to the entrance, Rune on the floor left, Rune on the floor near the chest, Rune right from the entrance (thats the second)

left one from maindoor (2):
Rune on the wall right from the entrance, Rune on the floor right to the entrance, Rune on the wall left, Rune on the floor left (solution one)

Rune on the floor left from the entrance, Rune on the wall right, Rune on the floor right, Rune on the wall left (second one)

Amphitheater (3):
Rune on the floor left from the entrance, Rune on the floor right, Rune on the wall left, Rune on the wall right (solution one)

Rune on the floor right from the entrance, Rune on the floor left, Rune on the wall left, Rune on the wall right (second one)

you can figure out yourself which solution route you have and what to do afterwards


You can also figure it out yourself by

+ Show Spoiler +
Buying the three books concerning runes from any vendor in the market square.


I couldn't go anywhere, everyone would just attack me.
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
May 24 2011 16:21 GMT
#854
On May 25 2011 01:14 Bibdy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2011 06:36 MaxwellE wrote:
A friend linked me this video today, it's pretty hilarious. Basically a console gamer who has never played pc games bought a gaming pc and did a review of Witcher 2. Rage ensues.

(Warning: Prologue spoilers)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9-j148iT8g&feature=relmfu


I don't really see anything wrong that kid did - at least during his successful attempt at the fight.

Its explained, very poorly, that parrying requires vigor.

Its not explained anywhere what vigor is, and where its shown on the screen until you start using spells/parrying and notice the yellow boxes disappearing.

There isn't any particular visual warning when you take damage from your own exploding Yrden (sp?) trap.

The combat revolves around spamming left-click and rolling away if you hit their shield, and then running away like a pansy to regenerate vigor if Quen goes down (and you have no vigor left).

It's easy to accidentally swing at the wrong target, in a multi-target fight, and screw yourself over (unless you've got a boner for the target-lock function).

All of those things I've experienced within the prologue (particularly that battle) myself.

You can't argue that they did a horrible job of explaining the game's combat mechanics during the prologue. This game isn't Mario where the only buttons you need are left, right and jump and you can pick up the basic game in under 10 seconds. More complex games of the modern generation should do what they can to explain things better.


you can lock onto targets, there's no excuse for saying you targeted the wrong thing.
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
May 24 2011 16:27 GMT
#855
On May 25 2011 01:21 Serpico wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2011 01:14 Bibdy wrote:
On May 24 2011 06:36 MaxwellE wrote:
A friend linked me this video today, it's pretty hilarious. Basically a console gamer who has never played pc games bought a gaming pc and did a review of Witcher 2. Rage ensues.

(Warning: Prologue spoilers)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9-j148iT8g&feature=relmfu


I don't really see anything wrong that kid did - at least during his successful attempt at the fight.

Its explained, very poorly, that parrying requires vigor.

Its not explained anywhere what vigor is, and where its shown on the screen until you start using spells/parrying and notice the yellow boxes disappearing.

There isn't any particular visual warning when you take damage from your own exploding Yrden (sp?) trap.

The combat revolves around spamming left-click and rolling away if you hit their shield, and then running away like a pansy to regenerate vigor if Quen goes down (and you have no vigor left).

It's easy to accidentally swing at the wrong target, in a multi-target fight, and screw yourself over (unless you've got a boner for the target-lock function).

All of those things I've experienced within the prologue (particularly that battle) myself.

You can't argue that they did a horrible job of explaining the game's combat mechanics during the prologue. This game isn't Mario where the only buttons you need are left, right and jump and you can pick up the basic game in under 10 seconds. More complex games of the modern generation should do what they can to explain things better.


you can lock onto targets, there's no excuse for saying you targeted the wrong thing.


You target-lock in EVERY battle? EVERY...SINGLE...BATTLE? Man, that must be tedious.
FliedLice
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany7494 Posts
May 24 2011 16:33 GMT
#856
On May 25 2011 01:27 Bibdy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2011 01:21 Serpico wrote:
On May 25 2011 01:14 Bibdy wrote:
On May 24 2011 06:36 MaxwellE wrote:
A friend linked me this video today, it's pretty hilarious. Basically a console gamer who has never played pc games bought a gaming pc and did a review of Witcher 2. Rage ensues.

(Warning: Prologue spoilers)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9-j148iT8g&feature=relmfu


I don't really see anything wrong that kid did - at least during his successful attempt at the fight.

Its explained, very poorly, that parrying requires vigor.

Its not explained anywhere what vigor is, and where its shown on the screen until you start using spells/parrying and notice the yellow boxes disappearing.

There isn't any particular visual warning when you take damage from your own exploding Yrden (sp?) trap.

The combat revolves around spamming left-click and rolling away if you hit their shield, and then running away like a pansy to regenerate vigor if Quen goes down (and you have no vigor left).

It's easy to accidentally swing at the wrong target, in a multi-target fight, and screw yourself over (unless you've got a boner for the target-lock function).

All of those things I've experienced within the prologue (particularly that battle) myself.

You can't argue that they did a horrible job of explaining the game's combat mechanics during the prologue. This game isn't Mario where the only buttons you need are left, right and jump and you can pick up the basic game in under 10 seconds. More complex games of the modern generation should do what they can to explain things better.


you can lock onto targets, there's no excuse for saying you targeted the wrong thing.


You target-lock in EVERY battle? EVERY...SINGLE...BATTLE? Man, that must be tedious.


Rofl what?

That's one fucking button press, wtf?


Have you ever played Starcraft?
FUCK!
That game is so tedious, all those buttons!
Kevmeister @ Dota2
MaxwellE
Profile Joined April 2010
England229 Posts
May 24 2011 16:36 GMT
#857
On May 25 2011 01:14 Bibdy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2011 06:36 MaxwellE wrote:
A friend linked me this video today, it's pretty hilarious. Basically a console gamer who has never played pc games bought a gaming pc and did a review of Witcher 2. Rage ensues.

(Warning: Prologue spoilers)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9-j148iT8g&feature=relmfu


I don't really see anything wrong that kid did - at least during his successful attempt at the fight.

Its explained, very poorly, that parrying requires vigor.

Its not explained anywhere what vigor is, and where its shown on the screen until you start using spells/parrying and notice the yellow boxes disappearing.

There isn't any particular visual warning when you take damage from your own exploding Yrden (sp?) trap.

The combat revolves around spamming left-click and rolling away if you hit their shield, and then running away like a pansy to regenerate vigor if Quen goes down (and you have no vigor left).

It's easy to accidentally swing at the wrong target, in a multi-target fight, and screw yourself over (unless you've got a boner for the target-lock function).

All of those things I've experienced within the prologue (particularly that battle) myself.

You can't argue that they did a horrible job of explaining the game's combat mechanics during the prologue. This game isn't Mario where the only buttons you need are left, right and jump and you can pick up the basic game in under 10 seconds. More complex games of the modern generation should do what they can to explain things better.


I agree, the tutorial is horrible. Tips popped up during battle and there is no time to read them. But it is all explained in the help section so it isn't that bad, if you just take the time to open it up. That doesn't make the rage any less funny though, at least not for me :D.

I watched some of his other videos aswell and there are some golden moments in them. In one of them he is benchmarking with the settings in Witcher 2 and says: "Ok the fps is good and it looks stunning but why is it so fucking jittery? There are so many settings someone please comment on the video and tell me how to get rid of the jitteriness" and the most upvoted comment was "get a mousepad".

maartendq
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Belgium3115 Posts
May 24 2011 16:36 GMT
#858
On May 25 2011 01:14 Bibdy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2011 06:36 MaxwellE wrote:
A friend linked me this video today, it's pretty hilarious. Basically a console gamer who has never played pc games bought a gaming pc and did a review of Witcher 2. Rage ensues.

(Warning: Prologue spoilers)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9-j148iT8g&feature=relmfu


I don't really see anything wrong that kid did - at least during his successful attempt at the fight.

Its explained, very poorly, that parrying requires vigor.

Its not explained anywhere what vigor is, and where its shown on the screen until you start using spells/parrying and notice the yellow boxes disappearing.

There isn't any particular visual warning when you take damage from your own exploding Yrden (sp?) trap.

The combat revolves around spamming left-click and rolling away if you hit their shield, and then running away like a pansy to regenerate vigor if Quen goes down (and you have no vigor left).

It's easy to accidentally swing at the wrong target, in a multi-target fight, and screw yourself over (unless you've got a boner for the target-lock function).

All of those things I've experienced within the prologue (particularly that battle) myself.

You can't argue that they did a horrible job of explaining the game's combat mechanics during the prologue. This game isn't Mario where the only buttons you need are left, right and jump and you can pick up the basic game in under 10 seconds. More complex games of the modern generation should do what they can to explain things better.

I don't know about you, but I generally read the manual before I start playing complex RPG's.
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
May 24 2011 16:37 GMT
#859
On May 25 2011 01:33 FliedLice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2011 01:27 Bibdy wrote:
On May 25 2011 01:21 Serpico wrote:
On May 25 2011 01:14 Bibdy wrote:
On May 24 2011 06:36 MaxwellE wrote:
A friend linked me this video today, it's pretty hilarious. Basically a console gamer who has never played pc games bought a gaming pc and did a review of Witcher 2. Rage ensues.

(Warning: Prologue spoilers)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9-j148iT8g&feature=relmfu


I don't really see anything wrong that kid did - at least during his successful attempt at the fight.

Its explained, very poorly, that parrying requires vigor.

Its not explained anywhere what vigor is, and where its shown on the screen until you start using spells/parrying and notice the yellow boxes disappearing.

There isn't any particular visual warning when you take damage from your own exploding Yrden (sp?) trap.

The combat revolves around spamming left-click and rolling away if you hit their shield, and then running away like a pansy to regenerate vigor if Quen goes down (and you have no vigor left).

It's easy to accidentally swing at the wrong target, in a multi-target fight, and screw yourself over (unless you've got a boner for the target-lock function).

All of those things I've experienced within the prologue (particularly that battle) myself.

You can't argue that they did a horrible job of explaining the game's combat mechanics during the prologue. This game isn't Mario where the only buttons you need are left, right and jump and you can pick up the basic game in under 10 seconds. More complex games of the modern generation should do what they can to explain things better.


you can lock onto targets, there's no excuse for saying you targeted the wrong thing.


You target-lock in EVERY battle? EVERY...SINGLE...BATTLE? Man, that must be tedious.


Rofl what?

That's one fucking button press, wtf?


Have you ever played Starcraft?
FUCK!
That game is so tedious, all those buttons!


No, really, do you do it every battle, against every single opponent in a multi-target fight? Or do you like to remain free and attack targets of opportunity when they show up?
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
May 24 2011 16:39 GMT
#860
On May 25 2011 01:36 maartendq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2011 01:14 Bibdy wrote:
On May 24 2011 06:36 MaxwellE wrote:
A friend linked me this video today, it's pretty hilarious. Basically a console gamer who has never played pc games bought a gaming pc and did a review of Witcher 2. Rage ensues.

(Warning: Prologue spoilers)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9-j148iT8g&feature=relmfu


I don't really see anything wrong that kid did - at least during his successful attempt at the fight.

Its explained, very poorly, that parrying requires vigor.

Its not explained anywhere what vigor is, and where its shown on the screen until you start using spells/parrying and notice the yellow boxes disappearing.

There isn't any particular visual warning when you take damage from your own exploding Yrden (sp?) trap.

The combat revolves around spamming left-click and rolling away if you hit their shield, and then running away like a pansy to regenerate vigor if Quen goes down (and you have no vigor left).

It's easy to accidentally swing at the wrong target, in a multi-target fight, and screw yourself over (unless you've got a boner for the target-lock function).

All of those things I've experienced within the prologue (particularly that battle) myself.

You can't argue that they did a horrible job of explaining the game's combat mechanics during the prologue. This game isn't Mario where the only buttons you need are left, right and jump and you can pick up the basic game in under 10 seconds. More complex games of the modern generation should do what they can to explain things better.

I don't know about you, but I generally read the manual before I start playing complex RPG's.


A half-decent tutorial precludes the need for a manual. The vast majority of gamers don't want to bother reading a tome before they play a game. The gamers are the customers, so the developers should do what they can to help that along by making a good tutorial system.

I mean, really, would making a better tutorial somehow taken AWAY from the game at all?
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